Sidepower thruster only thrusts one direction
 

My Sidepower bow thruster only runs in one direction. No obvious
relays to replace. Only large potted modules. Anyone know what
may be the problem?

THanks!
Doug
s/v Callista

This may sound silly to you but it happened to me.

If your sidepower model is one that has two propellers check to see if they
are both still there.

One of mine became disconnected.

Adrian


"Doug Dotson" dougdotson@NOSPAMcablespeedNOSPAMcom wrote in message
...
My Sidepower bow thruster only runs in one direction. No obvious
relays to replace. Only large potted modules. Anyone know what
may be the problem?

THanks!
Doug
s/v Callista

Only has one prop. In any case, the motor would run even without a prop.

Doug

"Adrian" wrote in message
...
This may sound silly to you but it happened to me.

If your sidepower model is one that has two propellers check to see if
they
are both still there.

One of mine became disconnected.

Adrian


"Doug Dotson" dougdotson@NOSPAMcablespeedNOSPAMcom wrote in message
...
My Sidepower bow thruster only runs in one direction. No obvious
relays to replace. Only large potted modules. Anyone know what
may be the problem?

THanks!
Doug
s/v Callista

Just another thought. Even if one prop was gone, it would still thrust
since both props turn no matter which direction. If one prop was
gone than it will not be as affective as with both but will still work.

Doug

"Adrian" wrote in message
...
This may sound silly to you but it happened to me.

If your sidepower model is one that has two propellers check to see if
they
are both still there.

One of mine became disconnected.

Adrian


"Doug Dotson" dougdotson@NOSPAMcablespeedNOSPAMcom wrote in message
...
My Sidepower bow thruster only runs in one direction. No obvious
relays to replace. Only large potted modules. Anyone know what
may be the problem?

THanks!
Doug
s/v Callista

Assuming this is a dc motor drive.
The dc motor is reversed by changing polarity; that's a simple fact.
Check incoming polarity red+ black- and compare to output polarity at leads
going to motor (after modules or other controls).Whatever activates the
direction of thrusters should have an effect on reversing of polarity at
this point.
Try that and let us know. mik
"Doug Dotson" dougdotson@NOSPAMcablespeedNOSPAMcom wrote in message
...
My Sidepower bow thruster only runs in one direction. No obvious
relays to replace. Only large potted modules. Anyone know what
may be the problem?

THanks!
Doug
s/v Callista

"Doug Dotson" dougdotson@NOSPAMcablespeedNOSPAMcom wrote in
:

My Sidepower bow thruster

Hey! That's CHEATING!.....(c;

Sounds like you need a new, read that expensive, "module". Instead of a
relay, it probably has electronic controls (in the modules). You blew a
transistor. All it does is reverse the direction of the DC fed to the
motor.

Does this thruster also have variable speed? That would explain the
module, instead of just an on-off relay system.

Also, Let's pull the plug off the "module" and see if you have switch
contacts closing between pins in the non-functional direction. Turn off
the breaker to it and use your ohmmeter to try to find when the switch
contacts close in the non-functional direction. If you find a closure, the
module is hosed....sorry.

Besides, thrusters are CHEATING!....(c;

--
Larry

"Larry" wrote in message
...
"Doug Dotson" dougdotson@NOSPAMcablespeedNOSPAMcom wrote in
:

My Sidepower bow thruster

Hey! That's CHEATING!.....(c;

Sounds like you need a new, read that expensive, "module". Instead of a
relay, it probably has electronic controls (in the modules). You blew a
transistor. All it does is reverse the direction of the DC fed to the
motor.

Looks like it is a potted module.

Does this thruster also have variable speed? That would explain the
module, instead of just an on-off relay system.

No.

Also, Let's pull the plug off the "module" and see if you have switch
contacts closing between pins in the non-functional direction. Turn off
the breaker to it and use your ohmmeter to try to find when the switch
contacts close in the non-functional direction. If you find a closure,
the
module is hosed....sorry.

I suspect it is hosed in any case.

Besides, thrusters are CHEATING!....(c;

Nah! They are nice to have.

--
Larry

On Thu, 22 Sep 2005 08:17:08 -0400, "Doug Dotson"
dougdotson@NOSPAMcablespeedNOSPAMcom wrote:



Looks like it is a potted module.


What does it look like and are there part numbers or ID
on it? How many connections for large wires are there?
Is there another identical unit in the controller area?

This sounds like a solid state relay. With a DC thruster
motor there are two basic options. One is to use a DPDT
relay or two SPDT relays. The principle is to apply + & -
battery for one direction and opposite polarity across the
motor for the other direction.

A SPDT relay will have two big connections and two small ones.
A DPDT relay will have two big connectons and three small ones.
It would seem that using two SPDT relays is the proper way.
Otherwise, battery power is applied to the thruster at all times.
So there would have to be another single pole relay to shut off
power when not being activated. The most straightforward approach is
a bridge connection. This requires four modules (only). What kind of
setup does it look like you have?

The small connections are the control lines. Depending on
current rating, a replacement should be in the $15-$25 range.


Gary Gaugler, Ph.D.
Microtechnics, Inc.
Granite Bay, CA 95746
916.791.8191
gary@microtechnics dot com

"Gary G" see.signature@bottom wrote in message
...
On Thu, 22 Sep 2005 08:17:08 -0400, "Doug Dotson"
dougdotson@NOSPAMcablespeedNOSPAMcom wrote:



Looks like it is a potted module.


What does it look like and are there part numbers or ID
on it? How many connections for large wires are there?

I'll look this evening.

Is there another identical unit in the controller area?

Not sure what you mean? Controller area? All electronics are mounted
on the motor. Only other component is the control panel which is small.

This sounds like a solid state relay.

That would be my guess.

With a DC thruster
motor there are two basic options. One is to use a DPDT
relay or two SPDT relays. The principle is to apply + & -
battery for one direction and opposite polarity across the
motor for the other direction.

I'm an EE. I know how it works. Just looking for advise on the symptoms
vs which failed component on this particular unit.

A SPDT relay will have two big connections and two small ones.
A DPDT relay will have two big connectons and three small ones.
It would seem that using two SPDT relays is the proper way.
Otherwise, battery power is applied to the thruster at all times.
So there would have to be another single pole relay to shut off
power when not being activated. The most straightforward approach is
a bridge connection. This requires four modules (only). What kind of
setup does it look like you have?

Two big black potted modules.

The small connections are the control lines. Depending on
current rating, a replacement should be in the $15-$25 range.


It's for a boat! Nothing cost $15-$25 other than a small stainless steel
screw :)

No relays, just a couple of potted modules. As you said earlier. they are
likely
solid state relays.

Gary Gaugler, Ph.D.
Microtechnics, Inc.
Granite Bay, CA 95746
916.791.8191
gary@microtechnics dot com

"Doug Dotson" dougdotson@NOSPAMcablespeedNOSPAMcom wrote in
:

I'm an EE. I know how it works. Just looking for advise on the symptoms
vs which failed component on this particular unit.


Geez. Now I'm wondering why the "module" hasn't been properly redesigned
with non-proprietary parts easily obtainable anywhere on the planet.....

Just jumper out the module's power wiring and see if it runs in both
direction. Scrap the crappy module and put a couple of simple relays
(weatherproof would be nice) from Grainger's Supply in its place....

Of course, this is why EEs are always in the company of ETs to make the
design actually WORK....(c;)

--
Larry

"Larry" wrote in message
...
"Doug Dotson" dougdotson@NOSPAMcablespeedNOSPAMcom wrote in
:

I'm an EE. I know how it works. Just looking for advise on the symptoms
vs which failed component on this particular unit.


Geez. Now I'm wondering why the "module" hasn't been properly redesigned
with non-proprietary parts easily obtainable anywhere on the planet.....

Just jumper out the module's power wiring and see if it runs in both
direction. Scrap the crappy module and put a couple of simple relays
(weatherproof would be nice) from Grainger's Supply in its place....

Might have to do that. Depends upon what a new module costs. It would help
if I had a schematic of the control panel.

Of course, this is why EEs are always in the company of ETs to make the
design actually WORK....(c;)


Larry

Well, new news. The thruster is fine, it is the control panel that is bad.
Not
a normal DC motor. Control does not just switch the polarity of the power
to the motor. Motor has 1 black wire (ground) and 3 red wires. Two of the
red wires connect to the relays in the module with one or the other
energized
depending upon direction. Not sure what the 3rd red wire does but it
connects
to the module via a separate lug. I can just short the lines at the control
panel
to activate the thruster. I can replace it with a SPDT switch if I want.
Hopefully
I can find a panel for not too many bucks.

Incidently, anybody know what type of oil this thruster uses? Looks pretty
light but I haven't a clue. No manual came with it.

Thanks to all that contributed!
Doug
s/v Callista

"Larry" wrote in message
...
"Doug Dotson" dougdotson@NOSPAMcablespeedNOSPAMcom wrote in
:

I'm an EE. I know how it works. Just looking for advise on the symptoms
vs which failed component on this particular unit.


Geez. Now I'm wondering why the "module" hasn't been properly redesigned
with non-proprietary parts easily obtainable anywhere on the planet.....

Just jumper out the module's power wiring and see if it runs in both
direction. Scrap the crappy module and put a couple of simple relays
(weatherproof would be nice) from Grainger's Supply in its place....

Of course, this is why EEs are always in the company of ETs to make the
design actually WORK....(c;)

--
Larry

"Doug Dotson" dougdotson@NOSPAMcablespeedNOSPAMcom wrote in
:

Well, new news. The thruster is fine, it is the control panel that is
bad.


An EE can't find a bad switch?

Just teasing.....how awful....(c;

--
Larry

On Thu, 22 Sep 2005 17:10:16 -0400, "Doug Dotson"
dougdotson@NOSPAMcablespeedNOSPAMcom wrote:

Well, new news. The thruster is fine, it is the control panel that is bad.
Not
a normal DC motor. Control does not just switch the polarity of the power
to the motor. Motor has 1 black wire (ground) and 3 red wires. Two of the
red wires connect to the relays in the module with one or the other
energized
depending upon direction. Not sure what the 3rd red wire does but it
connects
to the module via a separate lug. I can just short the lines at the control
panel
to activate the thruster. I can replace it with a SPDT switch if I want.
Hopefully
I can find a panel for not too many bucks.

Incidently, anybody know what type of oil this thruster uses? Looks pretty
light but I haven't a clue. No manual came with it.

Thanks to all that contributed!
Doug
s/v Callista


As one EE to another, try Google:

http://www.side-power.com/sidepower/index.php?id=83


Gary Gaugler, Ph.D.
Microtechnics, Inc.
Granite Bay, CA 95746
916.791.8191
gary@microtechnics dot com

"Larry" wrote in message
...
"Doug Dotson" dougdotson@NOSPAMcablespeedNOSPAMcom wrote in
:

Well, new news. The thruster is fine, it is the control panel that is
bad.


An EE can't find a bad switch?

Just teasing.....how awful....(c;

The control panel is hardly just a switch. All membrane switches with
internal
relays it sounds like. Sealed so I'll have to bust it open to see if I can
fix it.

--
Larry

"Gary G" see.signature@bottom wrote in message
...
On Thu, 22 Sep 2005 17:10:16 -0400, "Doug Dotson"
dougdotson@NOSPAMcablespeedNOSPAMcom wrote:

Well, new news. The thruster is fine, it is the control panel that is bad.
Not
a normal DC motor. Control does not just switch the polarity of the power
to the motor. Motor has 1 black wire (ground) and 3 red wires. Two of the
red wires connect to the relays in the module with one or the other
energized
depending upon direction. Not sure what the 3rd red wire does but it
connects
to the module via a separate lug. I can just short the lines at the
control
panel
to activate the thruster. I can replace it with a SPDT switch if I want.
Hopefully
I can find a panel for not too many bucks.

Incidently, anybody know what type of oil this thruster uses? Looks pretty
light but I haven't a clue. No manual came with it.

Thanks to all that contributed!
Doug
s/v Callista


As one EE to another, try Google:

http://www.side-power.com/sidepower/index.php?id=83

Been there, done that, no joy. That is unless I want to buy a
new thruster.


Gary Gaugler, Ph.D.
Microtechnics, Inc.
Granite Bay, CA 95746
916.791.8191
gary@microtechnics dot com

On Thu, 22 Sep 2005 20:42:39 -0400, "Doug Dotson"
dougdotson@NOSPAMcablespeedNOSPAMcom wrote:



As one EE to another, try Google:

http://www.side-power.com/sidepower/index.php?id=83

Been there, done that, no joy. That is unless I want to buy a
new thruster.



OK, inquiring minds want to know (at least one). If the supplier will
not support their legacy products, let us know. This helps all users
and potential customers. Albeit, at your expense. :-) However, I sense
that there is a large group of folks eager to help one another. Quite
refreshing.



Gary Gaugler, Ph.D.
Microtechnics, Inc.
Granite Bay, CA 95746
916.791.8191
gary@microtechnics dot com

Sounds like you've got a series wound motor with separate terminals for
the field and armature. If my memory is correct the polarity of the
armature winding gets reversed to change rotation.

It looks like your switching modules are working OK which will save you
some money. Otherwise I'd suggest an anchor windlass controller such
as an IMTRA. They occassionally show up on EBAY at halfway reasonable
prices. Be sure you get one designed for a series wound (4 terminal)
motor.

The control panel just provides a couple of contact closures. Functionally
it is an SPDT switch although it has On and Off buttons and a power
indicator LED as well. I'm going to try and tear into it this weekend and
see if I can figure out the problem. When I press the port thrust button I
can hear a relay pick inside the panel, but no activity at the thruster.

Doug

wrote in message
oups.com...
Sounds like you've got a series wound motor with separate terminals for
the field and armature. If my memory is correct the polarity of the
armature winding gets reversed to change rotation.

It looks like your switching modules are working OK which will save you
some money. Otherwise I'd suggest an anchor windlass controller such
as an IMTRA. They occassionally show up on EBAY at halfway reasonable
prices. Be sure you get one designed for a series wound (4 terminal)
motor.

On Thu, 22 Sep 2005 17:10:16 -0400, "Doug Dotson"
dougdotson@NOSPAMcablespeedNOSPAMcom wrote:

Well, new news. The thruster is fine, it is the control panel that is bad.
Not
a normal DC motor. Control does not just switch the polarity of the power
to the motor. Motor has 1 black wire (ground) and 3 red wires. Two of the
red wires connect to the relays in the module with one or the other
energized
depending upon direction. Not sure what the 3rd red wire does but it
connects
to the module via a separate lug. I can just short the lines at the control
panel
to activate the thruster. I can replace it with a SPDT switch if I want.
Hopefully
I can find a panel for not too many bucks.

Incidently, anybody know what type of oil this thruster uses? Looks pretty
light but I haven't a clue. No manual came with it.

Thanks to all that contributed!
Doug
s/v Callista


Read the manual resources. EP90.


Gary Gaugler, Ph.D.
Microtechnics, Inc.
Granite Bay, CA 95746
916.791.8191
gary@microtechnics dot com

"Gary G" see.signature@bottom wrote in message
...
On Thu, 22 Sep 2005 17:10:16 -0400, "Doug Dotson"
dougdotson@NOSPAMcablespeedNOSPAMcom wrote:

Well, new news. The thruster is fine, it is the control panel that is bad.
Not
a normal DC motor. Control does not just switch the polarity of the power
to the motor. Motor has 1 black wire (ground) and 3 red wires. Two of the
red wires connect to the relays in the module with one or the other
energized
depending upon direction. Not sure what the 3rd red wire does but it
connects
to the module via a separate lug. I can just short the lines at the
control
panel
to activate the thruster. I can replace it with a SPDT switch if I want.
Hopefully
I can find a panel for not too many bucks.

Incidently, anybody know what type of oil this thruster uses? Looks pretty
light but I haven't a clue. No manual came with it.

Thanks to all that contributed!
Doug
s/v Callista


Read the manual resources. EP90.

No manual came with it.


Gary Gaugler, Ph.D.
Microtechnics, Inc.
Granite Bay, CA 95746
916.791.8191
gary@microtechnics dot com

On Fri, 23 Sep 2005 23:35:38 -0400, "Doug Dotson"
dougdotson@NOSPAMcablespeedNOSPAMcom wrote:


"Gary G" see.signature@bottom wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 22 Sep 2005 17:10:16 -0400, "Doug Dotson"
dougdotson@NOSPAMcablespeedNOSPAMcom wrote:

Well, new news. The thruster is fine, it is the control panel that is bad.
Not
a normal DC motor. Control does not just switch the polarity of the power
to the motor. Motor has 1 black wire (ground) and 3 red wires. Two of the
red wires connect to the relays in the module with one or the other
energized
depending upon direction. Not sure what the 3rd red wire does but it
connects
to the module via a separate lug. I can just short the lines at the
control
panel
to activate the thruster. I can replace it with a SPDT switch if I want.
Hopefully
I can find a panel for not too many bucks.

Incidently, anybody know what type of oil this thruster uses? Looks pretty
light but I haven't a clue. No manual came with it.

Thanks to all that contributed!
Doug
s/v Callista


Read the manual resources. EP90.

No manual came with it.


Gary Gaugler, Ph.D.
Microtechnics, Inc.
Granite Bay, CA 95746
916.791.8191
gary@microtechnics dot com



What model is it?
http://www.side-power.com/sidepower/index.php?id=83

Tom Debski

"Sparerep" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 23 Sep 2005 23:35:38 -0400, "Doug Dotson"
dougdotson@NOSPAMcablespeedNOSPAMcom wrote:


"Gary G" see.signature@bottom wrote in message
. ..
On Thu, 22 Sep 2005 17:10:16 -0400, "Doug Dotson"
dougdotson@NOSPAMcablespeedNOSPAMcom wrote:

Well, new news. The thruster is fine, it is the control panel that is
bad.
Not
a normal DC motor. Control does not just switch the polarity of the
power
to the motor. Motor has 1 black wire (ground) and 3 red wires. Two of
the
red wires connect to the relays in the module with one or the other
energized
depending upon direction. Not sure what the 3rd red wire does but it
connects
to the module via a separate lug. I can just short the lines at the
control
panel
to activate the thruster. I can replace it with a SPDT switch if I want.
Hopefully
I can find a panel for not too many bucks.

Incidently, anybody know what type of oil this thruster uses? Looks
pretty
light but I haven't a clue. No manual came with it.

Thanks to all that contributed!
Doug
s/v Callista


Read the manual resources. EP90.

No manual came with it.


Gary Gaugler, Ph.D.
Microtechnics, Inc.
Granite Bay, CA 95746
916.791.8191
gary@microtechnics dot com



What model is it?
http://www.side-power.com/sidepower/index.php?id=83

Tom Debski

It's one of the smaller single-prop models. No identifying marks on it with
regard to model number. There is a plate on the motor with some specs.
The control panel is 3 5/8" square and mounts in a 3" square hole. Cable
connecting to it is 3-wire. I suspect it was installed in the mid 90's.

Thanks!
Doug