Need held - access to sea trials
 

I am shopping to get another sailboat.
When I ask some brokers for a sea trial they reply that I have to make an
offer and put a deposit before getting to the sea trial.
Some people tell me that brokers have to insist on a deposit and offer to
eliminate people looking for a free ride. Conversely when you want to
purchase a house real estate agent may request that you have been accepted
for a mortgage before an offer is accepted.
As I will be looking at more than one sailboats this could be an expensive
proposition.
I wonder what is really going on in the world of sailboats brokerage?

Denis Marier wrote:
I am shopping to get another sailboat.
When I ask some brokers for a sea trial they reply that I have to make an
offer and put a deposit before getting to the sea trial.
Some people tell me that brokers have to insist on a deposit and offer to
eliminate people looking for a free ride. Conversely when you want to
purchase a house real estate agent may request that you have been accepted
for a mortgage before an offer is accepted.
As I will be looking at more than one sailboats this could be an expensive
proposition.
I wonder what is really going on in the world of sailboats brokerage?



It's all refundable if there is substantial shortcoming during the
trial.

What is really going on is that a lot of freeloaders take free boat
rides, consume some hospitality, and gallop off into the sunset, or
try to cut the broker out.

Why don't someone suggest a better plan?

Offer to pay for a boat ride, applicable against purchase if it is
satisfactory.

You could tell the broker you want him to do as you say, or you will
offer more to the owner, after his contract expires. Good luck. If
you do it, you could wind up in court.

Then you will find out your plan is an old one. Brokers spend
almost all of their effort to ensure they get their commission. They
don't like to introduce owners and buyers until they have written
evidence of making the intro. Guess why?

Can you figure out why?

If not, you don't know what goes on in sailboat brokers' world.

It's a sad, sad world, sometimes.

But it's not your fault, right? Did you ever market a substantial
sailboat, or spend a week courting a buyer only to see him bugger
off without a thank you or a by your leave. How's an honest broker
to make a living?

There is always the for sale by owner route.

'course, sellers don't last long when the volunteer broker ninja
"buyers" wear the seller out with free rides. People of substance
get tired of freeloaders, too.

Terry K

Terry, thanks for the information. My situation now, is I already owned a
sailboat for the 25 years. I can understand that the broker does not want
to waits his time and uses the law of probably by having a large listing.
In Canada the brokers commission runs at about 10%.
Some people believe that the broker is legally responsible for the content,
the quality and the quantities of the equipment listed for the boat and to
ensure that the titles are cleared.
My friend bought a sailboat lately and found out the listed gears and
equipment shown on the specs. did not matched what was on the boat. When he
asked the broker the answer he got was that the fine prints in the broker's
contract stated that he was not responsible for the exactness of the content
and the condition of the boat.

"Terry Spragg" wrote in message
...
Denis Marier wrote:
I am shopping to get another sailboat.
When I ask some brokers for a sea trial they reply that I have to make
an
offer and put a deposit before getting to the sea trial.
Some people tell me that brokers have to insist on a deposit and offer
to
eliminate people looking for a free ride. Conversely when you want to
purchase a house real estate agent may request that you have been
accepted
for a mortgage before an offer is accepted.
As I will be looking at more than one sailboats this could be an
expensive
proposition.
I wonder what is really going on in the world of sailboats brokerage?



It's all refundable if there is substantial shortcoming during the
trial.

What is really going on is that a lot of freeloaders take free boat
rides, consume some hospitality, and gallop off into the sunset, or
try to cut the broker out.

Why don't someone suggest a better plan?

Offer to pay for a boat ride, applicable against purchase if it is
satisfactory.

You could tell the broker you want him to do as you say, or you will
offer more to the owner, after his contract expires. Good luck. If
you do it, you could wind up in court.

Then you will find out your plan is an old one. Brokers spend
almost all of their effort to ensure they get their commission. They
don't like to introduce owners and buyers until they have written
evidence of making the intro. Guess why?

Can you figure out why?

If not, you don't know what goes on in sailboat brokers' world.

It's a sad, sad world, sometimes.

But it's not your fault, right? Did you ever market a substantial
sailboat, or spend a week courting a buyer only to see him bugger
off without a thank you or a by your leave. How's an honest broker
to make a living?

There is always the for sale by owner route.

'course, sellers don't last long when the volunteer broker ninja
"buyers" wear the seller out with free rides. People of substance
get tired of freeloaders, too.

Terry K

Honestly, I do not see how brokers for boats under $50,000 make any
money.

I think perhaps that the broker doesn't know you. One strategy might be to
find a good, responsible broker and stick with him or her. I think that you
would probably then be able to just pay $100 or so to take a ride if you're
serious about the boat. Or you might want to just offer that up front to the
owner through the broker if one exists or directly to the owner if there is
no broker. Then, you wouldn't have to go through the motions of making an
offer or putting down a substantial deposit. Just a thought.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Denis Marier" wrote in message
...
I am shopping to get another sailboat.
When I ask some brokers for a sea trial they reply that I have to make an
offer and put a deposit before getting to the sea trial.
Some people tell me that brokers have to insist on a deposit and offer to
eliminate people looking for a free ride. Conversely when you want to
purchase a house real estate agent may request that you have been accepted
for a mortgage before an offer is accepted.
As I will be looking at more than one sailboats this could be an expensive
proposition.
I wonder what is really going on in the world of sailboats brokerage?

Denis Marier wrote:

Terry, thanks for the information. My situation now, is I already owned a
sailboat for the 25 years. I can understand that the broker does not want
to waits his time and uses the law of probably by having a large listing.
In Canada the brokers commission runs at about 10%.
Some people believe that the broker is legally responsible for the content,
the quality and the quantities of the equipment listed for the boat and to
ensure that the titles are cleared.
My friend bought a sailboat lately and found out the listed gears and
equipment shown on the specs. did not matched what was on the boat. When he
asked the broker the answer he got was that the fine prints in the broker's
contract stated that he was not responsible for the exactness of the content
and the condition of the boat.


Of course! How is he to control what the seller does after the
brochure is printed up?

If he has done his bit, it is then up to the buyer and the broker to
sue the seller for scotching the deal.

Doesn't everyone want the same thing?

Caveat emptor.

Terry K

They don't because many brokers won't handle cheap boats.

wrote in message
oups.com...
Honestly, I do not see how brokers for boats under $50,000 make any
money.

Denis:

What you describe is the "custom of the industry" and there are very good
reasons for it as others have noted. I sold yachts for about a year in
Annapolis for a very respected dealer/broker and not once did I have a
customer who just wanted to take a test sail to see what suited him. It just
isn't the way business is done. Even $100 paid to the seller isn't likely to
get you a test sail. As a yacht broker I would drop such a customer like a
hot potato as a "tire kicker".

And as someone noted, how can a broker make a living selling boats at
$50,000. Well, just barely. Our brokerage had a $25,000 cut off to accept a
listing. It just didn't make sense to spend your time driving all over the
northern Chesapeake showing boats to earn a total (split 50/50 between the
person and the firm) commision of less than $2,500.

There are brokerages that sell low value boats. There is one in the south
county area, that we referred our low end listings to. But all of his boats
were either on the hard or right there in a slip at the marina. He never had
to drive anywhere to show his listings. He did have a $1000 minimum
commision.

If you just want a test sail to determine if one type of boat is better than
another (as opposed to checking out a specific boat before closing the deal)
then there are other ways of doing this. Chartering is one way. Bumming
rides from OPBs (other peoples boats) is another. You can sometimes wangle a
test sail from a new boat dealer if he has one that you like in stock. But
new boat dealers are pretty good at smoking these frauds out.

Also let me suggest that a short test sail is not going to really tell you
whether one type is better suited for you or not. Unless you are a very
experienced sailor, all sailboats sail well on a nice day. Once you know
boats, you can tell more from the design, layout, construction as to how it
will work for you than after you sail it for a short while. My first
cruising boat was a new XXX. I was in love with it for the first several
months. Then I began to notice its vicious roundup tendencies in a strong
gust. I sailed other boats of similar size that didn't do this. I sold the
boat after less than a year and later learned that this was the
manufacturer's first design of this type and it was a fundamentally bad
design.

David

Thanks for your reply.
What you have said reminds me when I bought the boat I now have.

After looking at pre-owned sailboats in 1982 I ended up buying a new one.
Today, based on the information I have collected over the years from
experience, yacht clubs, reviews, races and club members comments I might as
well buy a new sailboat.
The latter sources of information may not reflect the true about a sailboat.
Racing people will tend to prefer a J type of boat for racing on the coast
and around the club. Cruising people have different needs and prefer a
different type of boat like the CE class A.
Rather than having to have money in escrow or letter of guarantee just for
looking and sea trying a boat before buying I might as well get a well
documented new one. This way I'll enjoy up to date technology, new sails,
full boat warranty and the individual components and equipment will also be
covered for a period of time.

"David&Joan" wrote in message
news:2zaRe.73227$DW1.48219@fed1read06...
Denis:

What you describe is the "custom of the industry" and there are very good
reasons for it as others have noted. I sold yachts for about a year in
Annapolis for a very respected dealer/broker and not once did I have a
customer who just wanted to take a test sail to see what suited him. It
just
isn't the way business is done. Even $100 paid to the seller isn't likely
to
get you a test sail. As a yacht broker I would drop such a customer like a
hot potato as a "tire kicker".

And as someone noted, how can a broker make a living selling boats at
$50,000. Well, just barely. Our brokerage had a $25,000 cut off to accept
a
listing. It just didn't make sense to spend your time driving all over the
northern Chesapeake showing boats to earn a total (split 50/50 between the
person and the firm) commision of less than $2,500.

There are brokerages that sell low value boats. There is one in the south
county area, that we referred our low end listings to. But all of his
boats
were either on the hard or right there in a slip at the marina. He never
had
to drive anywhere to show his listings. He did have a $1000 minimum
commision.

If you just want a test sail to determine if one type of boat is better
than
another (as opposed to checking out a specific boat before closing the
deal)
then there are other ways of doing this. Chartering is one way. Bumming
rides from OPBs (other peoples boats) is another. You can sometimes wangle
a
test sail from a new boat dealer if he has one that you like in stock. But
new boat dealers are pretty good at smoking these frauds out.

Also let me suggest that a short test sail is not going to really tell you
whether one type is better suited for you or not. Unless you are a very
experienced sailor, all sailboats sail well on a nice day. Once you know
boats, you can tell more from the design, layout, construction as to how
it
will work for you than after you sail it for a short while. My first
cruising boat was a new XXX. I was in love with it for the first several
months. Then I began to notice its vicious roundup tendencies in a strong
gust. I sailed other boats of similar size that didn't do this. I sold the
boat after less than a year and later learned that this was the
manufacturer's first design of this type and it was a fundamentally bad
design.

David

Ever bought a new boat? I did once and never again. It's not like
buying a new car, where pretty much everything works when you get it. I
had over 150 items on the original punch list that needed fixing.
Chartplotter didn't work, hot water didn't work, bolts put in the wrong
way, chipped fiberglass, fuel gages didn't read correctly, leaks, etc.
etc. etc. A YEAR later still everything wasn't fixed.

I'd much rather buy a boat that was one or two years old, where the
original owner did all the fitting out and took the big depreciation
hit.