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Sailorgirl
http://www.sailorgirl.com/
"If you're sitting in front of a screen, cruising through this site thinking to yourself, "boy, I wish I were there", I have a question for you. Why aren't you? You know all those cliches like, life is short, there's no dress rehearsal in life? Well guess what, they're true. It doesn't take a million dollars to live well, it just takes a little motivation. (although if you'd like to send a million dollars Sailorgirl's way, it wouldn't be turned down!)" "Sailorgirl Attitude: You cannot discover new oceans unless you're willing to lose sight of the shore." |
I hear this sort of thing a lot, that life is short and people should
do what they really want to do etc.....However, i think many people talk about doing things they really do NOT want to do as if they would like to do them. Cruising can be stressful, like, "Will my anchor hold..." When the opportunity really comes, many people will find they really do not want to sail away because normal life really is comfortable while life on a 27' boat will be fairly uncomfortable a lot. I have friends who spent years building their dream boat and finally sailed away last year after defferring sailing for years. I was shocked to see them back here recently and was told that they had spent most of last year avoiding storms (many hurricanes) and the cruising kitty was empty. They were back to look for jobs...........huh? I wonder, did they find that the cruising life was really not that great? That seems like a lot of effort to find that out. Many people are tied down by real circumstances, like children who make it very difficult to buy a 35' boat and you know that 3 kids cannot live on a 27' boat. Children do not have to be the thing that ties you down but they really do change your perspective on life and preceived dangers. Some of us (myself) talk a lot about cruising but are so in love with our work that we would not be able to give it up even to sail. Life is a constant compromise between our love of cruising and our love for our work. If a person constantly says " I would love to be doing ######## if I just could" and then does nothing to achieve that dream does need some waking up but I really see very few of them. |
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Good luck and I hope you love it.
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Know a young couple who put 100k into building their own world cruiser. Had
a couple kids while doing the building. Big day arrived and they left Puget Sound on the world cruise. Got as far as Oregon and decided cruising was not their bag! Boat has been on the hard the past 10 years. But someday........... Gordon "Mic" wrote in message ... http://www.sailorgirl.com/ "If you're sitting in front of a screen, cruising through this site thinking to yourself, "boy, I wish I were there", I have a question for you. Why aren't you? You know all those cliches like, life is short, there's no dress rehearsal in life? Well guess what, they're true. It doesn't take a million dollars to live well, it just takes a little motivation. (although if you'd like to send a million dollars Sailorgirl's way, it wouldn't be turned down!)" "Sailorgirl Attitude: You cannot discover new oceans unless you're willing to lose sight of the shore." |
There ought to be some way for people to see if they like this
lifestyle before they spend years planning just to find they hate it. Chartering doesnt do it cuz you do not have the same cares or pressures. Maybe it is best to go now and go smaller. I mean go now with a smaller boat like Sailorgirl on a 27'. I decided that I couldnt justify getting a larger boat than my 28' S2 because this size is just what I can handle and she isnt a financial burden when I am not using her. Besides, she's paid for long ago. If she gets destroyed somehow, it's no major deal and wont break me. Somebody ought to get a fleet of old mid-size boats together in a cheap place in FL and lease (option to buy with part of lease payments going toward purchase) them to people who want to try the cruising life without spending yrs planning. Gordon wrote: Know a young couple who put 100k into building their own world cruiser. Had a couple kids while doing the building. Big day arrived and they left Puget Sound on the world cruise. Got as far as Oregon and decided cruising was not their bag! Boat has been on the hard the past 10 years. But someday........... Gordon "Mic" wrote in message ... http://www.sailorgirl.com/ "If you're sitting in front of a screen, cruising through this site thinking to yourself, "boy, I wish I were there", I have a question for you. Why aren't you? You know all those cliches like, life is short, there's no dress rehearsal in life? Well guess what, they're true. It doesn't take a million dollars to live well, it just takes a little motivation. (although if you'd like to send a million dollars Sailorgirl's way, it wouldn't be turned down!)" "Sailorgirl Attitude: You cannot discover new oceans unless you're willing to lose sight of the shore." |
rhys wrote:
On 12 Aug 2005 13:33:27 -0700, wrote: I hear this sort of thing a lot, that life is short and people should do what they really want to do etc.....However, i think many people talk about doing things they really do NOT want to do as if they would like to do them. Cruising can be stressful, like, "Will my anchor hold..." When the opportunity really comes, many people will find they really do not want to sail away because normal life really is comfortable while life on a 27' boat will be fairly uncomfortable a lot. snip If a person constantly says " I would love to be doing ######## if I just could" and then does nothing to achieve that dream does need some waking up but I really see very few of them. That's why I object to the 'follow your dreams' type rhetoric. And the subsequent 'broken dreams' thing. Plans---- I can go with plans. Not dreams. I have friends who spent years building their dream boat and finally sailed away last year after defferring sailing for years. You should only spend years building a boat IMHO if your dream is boat building. If your dream is sailing, the buy a boat and sail. That is why our game plan for five-seven years of world cruising in mid-life includes the following: 1) Have the wife take a teacher's degree to teach our kid and to offer a tutor service to fellow cruisers and/or teaching terms ashore. Learn diesel maintenance, celestial, diving. I'm not so sure that a teaching degree will be that useful. I have one, and there were a few nuggets of useful information in there, but there was a lot of other stuff that I would not need to teach one child or tutor a small group. It may be a large expense for little return. I'm also not sure about the celestial. 2) Develop new markets for my (successful) freelance writing into the travel/sail/tech aboard fields...not a stretch. 3) Spend as much time as possible living aboard in Lake Ontario on our present boat, which is old school and pretty minimal, but big enough to tackle bad weather. 4) Join passagemakers as crew to see if life on salt water is really for us. 5) Repeat. 6) Repeat. Repeat until you've got some real sea hours and you get sensibly frightened, but reasonably experienced. G 7) Rejig paid off house as income rental property, and THEN get a 50% mortgage against it and go ocean-boat shopping. 8) Live aboard new used boat in Toronto for one year while house is renting out. Try to replicate cruising life by finding what works, what doesn't. Only if each of those steps works out--particularly both of us making separate offshore trips as crew and then TOGETHER as crew--would we actually get a new boat. The boat we have is offshore capable--many have gone to the Carribean, for instance, but is too small and tender for my tastes. But all the human elements have to be in place before I would essentially mortgage my future to take a mid-life sabbatical. However, the rationale is to go NOW and not when advancing years, health issues or putting a kid through college make it less likely. We want to be at sea (or as foreign-based live-aboards) when my kid is between seven/eight to 13-14, at which point we plan to get him back for high school with some real life experience under his belt instead of Nintendo thumb and a pasty fat arse. This is a good time frame AFA the kids are concerned I think. Wish us well...the house is paid off in six months and the sextant is becoming familiar and the wife's applying for teacher's college this fall. R. grandma Rosalie |
On Sat, 13 Aug 2005 13:07:03 GMT, Rosalie B.
wrote: I'm not so sure that a teaching degree will be that useful. I have one, and there were a few nuggets of useful information in there, but there was a lot of other stuff that I would not need to teach one child or tutor a small group. It may be a large expense for little return. It's not for cruising, it's for shoreside life. There's a big shortage of female, circa 30, hard science teachers in our province. If she started teaching for a year or two, she'd be square with the union and the pension fund and *then* could sail off for five years knowing there's a job (very, very likely) waiting for her. Also, having the qualifications makes "boat-schooling" a lot easier to pass muster with educational departments, AND means you have a real diploma to present to foreign school systems (many of which aren't picky about foreign, temporary teachers), and to the boating community at large. I'm also not sure about the celestial. I am if only because it's a big, bad world out there and may get worse in the next ten years. GPS...and large chunks of the Internet for that matter...can be turned off, as they are essentially creations of the American military. The stars can't. Besides, it's an autonomous skill that takes time to master, like braiding a Turk's Head or knowing wire to rope splicing...it's a part of seamanship. This is a good time frame AFA the kids are concerned I think. That's what we are thinking. After 14, he'll have other, more earthy interests. R. |
On Fri, 12 Aug 2005 20:34:09 -0700, "Gordon"
wrote: Know a young couple who put 100k into building their own world cruiser. Had a couple kids while doing the building. Big day arrived and they left Puget Sound on the world cruise. Got as far as Oregon and decided cruising was not their bag! Boat has been on the hard the past 10 years. But someday........... Gordon I don't wish to seem as if I am waiting to pounce on such situations, but that's how I fully expect to find our boat: someone who turned back, or started too late, and now has a 90-99% ocean-ready vessel on the hard eating yard fees. R. |
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I've heard it rumored that good deals can be had in Papeete Tahiti F.P. from time
to time. Cash, as is, where is. ymmv, Don W. rhys wrote: I don't wish to seem as if I am waiting to pounce on such situations, but that's how I fully expect to find our boat: someone who turned back, or started too late, and now has a 90-99% ocean-ready vessel on the hard eating yard fees. R. |
"rhys" wrote in message ... On 12 Aug 2005 13:33:27 -0700, wrote: I hear this sort of thing a lot, that life is short and people should do what they really want to do etc.....However, i think many people talk about doing things they really do NOT want to do as if they would like to do them. Cruising can be stressful, like, "Will my anchor hold..." When the opportunity really comes, many people will find they really do not want to sail away because normal life really is comfortable while life on a 27' boat will be fairly uncomfortable a lot. That is why our game plan for five-seven years of world cruising in mid-life includes the following: 1) Have the wife take a teacher's degree to teach our kid and to offer a tutor service to fellow cruisers and/or teaching terms ashore. Learn diesel maintenance, celestial, diving. 2) Develop new markets for my (successful) freelance writing into the travel/sail/tech aboard fields...not a stretch. 3) Spend as much time as possible living aboard in Lake Ontario on our present boat, which is old school and pretty minimal, but big enough to tackle bad weather. 4) Join passagemakers as crew to see if life on salt water is really for us. 5) Repeat. 6) Repeat. Repeat until you've got some real sea hours and you get sensibly frightened, but reasonably experienced. G 7) Rejig paid off house as income rental property, and THEN get a 50% mortgage against it and go ocean-boat shopping. 8) Live aboard new used boat in Toronto for one year while house is renting out. Try to replicate cruising life by finding what works, what doesn't. Only if each of those steps works out--particularly both of us making separate offshore trips as crew and then TOGETHER as crew--would we actually get a new boat. The boat we have is offshore capable--many have gone to the Carribean, for instance, but is too small and tender for my tastes. But all the human elements have to be in place before I would essentially mortgage my future to take a mid-life sabbatical. However, the rationale is to go NOW and not when advancing years, health issues or putting a kid through college make it less likely. We want to be at sea (or as foreign-based live-aboards) when my kid is between seven/eight to 13-14, at which point we plan to get him back for high school with some real life experience under his belt instead of Nintendo thumb and a pasty fat arse. Wish us well...the house is paid off in six months and the sextant is becoming familiar and the wife's applying for teacher's college this fall. R. Sounds like a good plan, especially have to agree with the bit about doing it now when you're able to. Met a fair number of older cruisers last spring in Trinidad that were giving up the sea cruising lifestyle for land cruising, the common reason given was advancing age, I also suspect that the wives were getting sick of living aboard full time. John Cairns |
In article ,
Rosalie B. wrote: You should only spend years building a boat IMHO if your dream is boat building. If your dream is sailing, the buy a boat and sail. Oh, this deserves special note, as it's easily observable truth. -- Jere Lull Xan-a-Deux ('73 Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD) Xan's Pages: http://members.dca.net/jerelull/X-Main.html Our BVI FAQs (290+ pics) http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/ |
Jere Lull wrote: In article , Rosalie B. wrote: You should only spend years building a boat IMHO if your dream is boat building. If your dream is sailing, the buy a boat and sail. Oh, this deserves special note, as it's easily observable truth. OTOH, we did meet a nice Canadian couple in Grand Turk who were cruising on their huge trimaran that they had built while awaiting retirement. I'm sure it was a lot of work, but they owned it out right. Don W. |
On Mon, 15 Aug 2005 03:33:03 GMT, Jere Lull wrote:
In article , Rosalie B. wrote: You should only spend years building a boat IMHO if your dream is boat building. If your dream is sailing, the buy a boat and sail. Oh, this deserves special note, as it's easily observable truth. Agreed, but I would make a side observation that I've found has real-life application. If a home builder of some skill (say a professional welder working from a Bruce Roberts kit) gets to the 90% complete mark in finishing a cruiser (say, temporary "plywood and bench" interior, but with engine, mast(s) and all hull work finished), and then decides to give it up due to a host of reasons (age, illness, loss of interest in cruising offshore), you can purchase the equivalent of a $150,000 vessel for a small percentage, and then have it custom-finished to your specifications. I have looked at several such boats, ranging from "hopelessly rusting empty hulls" to "just add teak", and it is very surprising just how finished an unfinished and "hard to sell" boat can be. Obviously, competant and focussed surveying is essential in such cases, as is a willingness to shell out to a decent carpenter/boatyard to get the thing complete. This, however, can be a real opportunity and can save tens of thousands of dollars if done right. There are a lot of "stillborn" boats out there, but some can be successfully revived. This has to be offset by the availability of decent used boats in your area, price point, etc., but I've seen some half-finished interiors that have allowed me to peer at absolutely top-notch gear and systems that will never see the ocean when a capable home builder falls ill, gives up or dies. A tad ghoulish, but there it is. Better the boat gets used than not. R. |
On Mon, 15 Aug 2005 02:11:54 GMT, "John Cairns"
wrote: Sounds like a good plan, especially have to agree with the bit about doing it now when you're able to. Met a fair number of older cruisers last spring in Trinidad that were giving up the sea cruising lifestyle for land cruising, the common reason given was advancing age, I also suspect that the wives were getting sick of living aboard full time. Were my wife not fully behind this (and quite aware of the Spartan elements of living aboard), I wouldn't pursue this dream by myself, particularly as it involves a large financial commitment. But she's a sailor in her own right, and understands the nature of odyssey. Also, she's just 31 (I am 44). In 20 years time, *I* might not want to go, either! R. |
On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 03:56:12 GMT, Don W
wrote: I've heard it rumored that good deals can be had in Papeete Tahiti F.P. from time to time. Cash, as is, where is. ymmv, Don W. Panama is another "end of the line" hot spot. Brokers' listings, if read incisively, tell a lot of unhappy stories. R. |
rhys wrote:
Agreed, but I would make a side observation that I've found has real-life application. If a home builder of some skill (say a professional welder working from a Bruce Roberts kit) gets to the 90% complete mark in finishing a cruiser (say, temporary "plywood and bench" interior, but with engine, mast(s) and all hull work finished), and then decides to give it up due to a host of reasons (age, illness, loss of interest in cruising offshore), you can purchase the equivalent of a $150,000 vessel for a small percentage, and then have it custom-finished to your specifications. Not so. The "equivalent of a $150,000 vessel" would be one that was fully found and ready to put to sea. What you're getting is a potential vessel, which needs an undetermined amount of future expense & labor. If the potential boat is exactly the design you've always wanted, and the previous builder was a meticulous perfectionist who spared no amount of money on tools & materials and no amount of his own time, and is so sick of the potential boat and/or desperate for cash he'll hand it over for a song (or better yet, pay you to haul it off), then it can be a good deal. I have looked at several such boats, ranging from "hopelessly rusting empty hulls" to "just add teak", and it is very surprising just how finished an unfinished and "hard to sell" boat can be. Not surprising at all, at least not to my cynical eye. They're trying to sell a very personal dream. Only a person who shares the dream will be at all interested, and most won't have much money. Obviously, competant and focussed surveying is essential in such cases IMHO what would be most essential would be a complete and honest estimate of how much $$ & work is required to get the boat sailing. That estimate, doubled, is probably near the lower threshold of what it'll *really* take. There are a lot of "stillborn" boats out there, but some can be successfully revived. This has to be offset by the availability of decent used boats in your area, price point, etc., but I've seen some half-finished interiors that have allowed me to peer at absolutely top-notch gear and systems that will never see the ocean when a capable home builder falls ill, gives up or dies. A tad ghoulish, but there it is. Better the boat gets used than not. True. Actually, home builders may find your attitude ghoulish but IMHO you're a starry-eyed optimist. Consider another part of the same equation: the number of perfectly good (or at least, completed) boats that sit unsailed in marinas everywhere. Fresh Breezes- Doug King |
On Tue, 16 Aug 2005 07:52:43 -0400, DSK wrote:
Not so. The "equivalent of a $150,000 vessel" would be one that was fully found and ready to put to sea. What you're getting is a potential vessel, which needs an undetermined amount of future expense & labor. OK, fair enough. Let's say "equivalent of a $150,000 vessel should I finish it in the same manner it was started by paying pros $50,000 and having bought it for $30,000, thus saving $70,000 on a like-new boat". If the potential boat is exactly the design you've always wanted, and the previous builder was a meticulous perfectionist who spared no amount of money on tools & materials and no amount of his own time, and is so sick of the potential boat and/or desperate for cash he'll hand it over for a song (or better yet, pay you to haul it off), then it can be a good deal. Exactly. I have looked at several such boats, ranging from "hopelessly rusting empty hulls" to "just add teak", and it is very surprising just how finished an unfinished and "hard to sell" boat can be. Not surprising at all, at least not to my cynical eye. They're trying to sell a very personal dream. Only a person who shares the dream will be at all interested, and most won't have much money. The idea is that I have the money to buy a new production boat, but I find in many cases the ideas of somewhat conservative perfectionist obsessives suit me better. Ask a Beneteau sales dude "but where do I put the tap set and the bench vise?" and you'll see why I don't like a lot of today's boats for offshore work. There ARE decent, functional, non-dock-jewellery-oriented production cruisers out there, but they tend to be European and frighteningly expensive. If I do buy used, instead of 90% finished, it's likely to be in Europe or South Africa due to the seamanlike mentality. Obviously, competant and focussed surveying is essential in such cases IMHO what would be most essential would be a complete and honest estimate of how much $$ & work is required to get the boat sailing. That estimate, doubled, is probably near the lower threshold of what it'll *really* take. I do understand this. Let me say that I've seen boats completed to full sailing spec, except for interiors, which were plywood seats and soles covered in indoor-outdoor carpeting. Everything else was mint and very, very well put together. Had the boat been six feet longer, I would have bought it on the spot, as a weekend with a Sawzall would have cleared the way for a carpenter and cabinet maker to do a custom interior to my specs, which would be oriented to workspace, seaberths and stowage and less to big cushy chairs in the middle of the saloon G. But you are correct about boat dollars: multiply by two and banish shock and horror. True. Actually, home builders may find your attitude ghoulish but IMHO you're a starry-eyed optimist. Consider another part of the same equation: the number of perfectly good (or at least, completed) boats that sit unsailed in marinas everywhere. Well, I haven't been dubbed optimistic in some time, but as I did just purchase a new sextant, I'll take it under advisement. And yes, the other half of the equation is completed, decent, barely sailed boats that are pre-rotted but priced to move all over the place. The problem there, of course, is travelling to see what might be a dud (expensive unless you've lined up 20 boats in Florida, say, and devote a week to poking around). The other hazard is trying to divine the type of owner: some guys IMPROVE the boat by judicious retrofitting; others are ignorant slobs. I would prefer to solve problems of my own making than paying big bucks for the opportunity to remedy the negligence of others. Thanks for your thoughts, R. |
On Sat, 13 Aug 2005 21:28:56 -0400, rhys wrote:
On 12 Aug 2005 21:02:56 -0700, wrote: Somebody ought to get a fleet of old mid-size boats together in a cheap place in FL and lease (option to buy with part of lease payments going toward purchase) them to people who want to try the cruising life without spending yrs planning. That's a very good idea, although I bet the insurance companies would have a field day on the liability front. Two-footitis is rampant: you can get a Shark or a small '70s cruiser (Mirage, Edel, Kelt, Tanzer) for very few dollars because the original owners are retiring or moving up to trawlers or Beneteaus/Hunters and nobody seems to want a boat that just sleeps three and has perhaps an "exposed" head and a butane ring for a galley. But they sail just fine up to 25 knots. I agree. One benefit of spending family vacations for several years on a small boat is that it later makes the 35-footer seem huge and extravagantly comfortable. Another advantage is that it kind of focuses your mind on what amenities you really need and which are just bonuses. Unfortunately, some people who might be quite comfortable on the 35-footer might not be willing to try it if their first experiences are too uncomfortable, or if too much of their childhood was spent outgrowing a v-berth. There's some tradeoff there, I guess. I also suspect that fairly small boats are more forgiving to learn on, giving various family members the chance to get comfortable with different chores and positions, and giving at least the skipper in the family the opportunity to develop skill and confidence to single-hand. Anchors are lighter. Loads on sails and sheets are smaller because sails are smaller. Flaking the main on the boom is easier. If the docking job isn't perfect or the wind makes it tricky to get out of the harbour, the crew can fend off usefully without breaking limbs. This also means that the consequences for a new helm learning to dock are limited. Beginning boat-maintainers/improvers might also find it easier to drill their first holes and make their first mistakes on the $5,000 boat than on the retirement-dream boat. Depending where you live, boats which draw less than four feet can safely visit more nearby places than boats which draw 6 feet. Having nearby places to go, and going to them frequently, is also good preparation for longer cruising life - if you and your crew enjoy getting up on a fine Saturday, throwing a few things in a bag, stopping at the grocery store or gourmet takeout, heading downwind for a few hours and spending Saturday night relaxing at anchor, you've got a start at becoming comfortable with the pace and compromises of longer vacations. You'll learn that it's always worth taking your foul weather gear and warm socks and that it's always worth putting on sunscreen the first day. You might learn that family talking and listening come so much easier once you've rounded the corner into the river and turned off the engine, compared to in the living room with the television on and the kids' friends calling and the pile of bills to pay sitting on the table. You'll learn to keep the boat stocked with more paperback books than you need right now, and also more toilet paper and Knorr soup mix and sunglasses and tools for tinkering. Louise, who could go on, except that I want to wait to charge the computer on the inverter until the engine is running |
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