Navigational charts for a novice
 

I am puzzled about navigational charts. I understand we need to have
them and know how to use them but they seem very expensive and we seem
to need quite a number of them, then keep them updated. I found some
free digital Navigational charts at the NOAA web site that need to be
viewed with a software program but there seemed to be no way to print
them out. Any help would be appreciated.

Harlen

--
Sent via Travel Newsgroups
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Harlen David wrote in
:

I am puzzled about navigational charts.

Cue the old Abba song, "Money - Money - Money"

Money, money, money....
It's a rich man's world....

Even though the US tax payer paid to have the charts made and kept up,
greedy government bureaucrats sold us out to the chart companies for fun
and profit and probably a little money under the table.

Now, other government bureaucrats want to do the same thing to WEATHER maps
and data tax payers already paid for so you can pay for your weather maps
just like your charts! You're already paying extra for lightning hit data,
today.....

It's all part of the exhorbitant cost of boating to keep the pleasure
reserved for those with ....... Money, money, money....

--
Larry

Harlen David wrote:

I am puzzled about navigational charts. I understand we need to have
them and know how to use them but they seem very expensive and we seem
to need quite a number of them, then keep them updated. I found some
free digital Navigational charts at the NOAA web site that need to be
viewed with a software program but there seemed to be no way to print
them out. Any help would be appreciated.

Harlen

I don't know where you are or what kind of boating you intend to do.
But here are some general thoughts.

I haven't seen the necessity to do much updating of any paper charts
we have. I don't actually purchase the large paper charts very often,
although the PO of our boat had a large number of them for the
Chesapeake.

Paper charts are pretty easy to update - you can just write on them.
Getting the updates are more of a problem because the Notice to
Mariners are not organized (IMHO) in a way to make this easy to do.
Outside of the US, the charts are not updated very much. Some charts
may have been done in 1899, and have not been updated since. Or they
may have big blank areas on them with no depths indicated.

Sometimes people copy each other's charts or trade charts. If I have
a lot of charts of the west coast of Mexico, and I go through the
Panama Canal into the Caribbean where I meet someone who is going the
other way, we may trade - I give them my Mexican charts and they give
me their Caribbean charts. I hear about this a lot, and I see people
offering charts, but I don't know how often it happens in real life or
how helpful these charts would be.

Most of the time I get chartbooks aka chart kits, which are also
expensive, but less so than purchasing all the individual charts.
They come in large, but more handle-able formats, and usually are
plasticized so that getting wet isn't as much of a problem. I have
chart kits for the Chesapeake (2 or 3), the ICW from Norfolk to the
St. Mary's River in GA (2), the east coast of FL, the FL Keys, and
three or 4 for the Bahamas.

I also have computer charts for these areas, which I do not print out,
but use with a GPS in the cockpit. They show me where I am, and have
the advantage that even if the buoy's are renumbered, I can still see
where I am. If buoy #36 is next to my boat, but the chart says it is
buoy #24, that's OK - I still know where I am.

Some people use chart plotters, but I have no experience with that - I
just went directly to computer charts.

People also buy cruising guides for the areas that they intend to
visit which supplement the charts by indicated areas that have shoaled
and also marinas and anchorages, tell the history of the area, etc.

HTH

grandma Rosalie

On 4 Aug 2005, , Larry wrote:


Even though the US tax payer paid to have the charts
made and kept up, greedy government bureaucrats sold
us out to the chart companies . . . .

Now, other government bureaucrats want to do the same
thing to WEATHER maps and data tax payers already
paid for so you can pay for your weather maps just like
your charts! You're already paying extra for lightning hit
data, today.....

It is hardly just "bureaucrats" (at least in the administrative
clerical sense of that term) who are trying to do this. The present
most important governmental officer involved in the attempt to
"privatize" weather data which would then be given for free to
commercial outfits (e.g., AccuWeather) - but at increased cost to
individual taxpayer! - then made available to individuals for a fee
only from these private companies is Pa. Senator Rick Santorum.

There have been a few short news pieces and commentaries criticizing
Santorum's effort in this connection (including by reporting that
AccuWeather is one of his constituents and, perhaps more to the point
here, financial contributors), but very few reports in the general
press and, as far as I've so far been able to determine, none in the
electronic media.

Boaters individually and as a group (is there a "boating community"?)
might want to educate themselves then try to do something meaningful
in response to Santorum's and his like-minded (and like-paid?)
colleagues' efforts.

Note: for the time being at least, you can down load free ENC
(electronic) charts suitable for navigation from noaa, he
http://nauticalcharts.noaa.gov/mcd/enc/download.htm

You will need either a free chart viewer (which is had to use) or a
commercial navigation suite capable of using ENC charts in order to use
the charts.

As for paper charts and updates, they're expensive and a pain. I do
not know many people who bother updating them.

mickey

If you have a mac computer you might look at the new MacENC program. For
$100 you get a nav program and cd with all ENC charts of the world.
http://www.gpsnavx.com/MacENC/

Gordon


"Harlen David" wrote in message
...
I am puzzled about navigational charts. I understand we need to have
them and know how to use them but they seem very expensive and we seem
to need quite a number of them, then keep them updated. I found some
free digital Navigational charts at the NOAA web site that need to be
viewed with a software program but there seemed to be no way to print
them out. Any help would be appreciated.

Harlen

--
Sent via Travel Newsgroups
http://www.travelnewsgroups.com

Rosalie B. wrote:

I don't know where you are or what kind of boating you intend to do.
But here are some general thoughts.

I haven't seen the necessity to do much updating of any paper charts
we have. I don't actually purchase the large paper charts very often,
although the PO of our boat had a large number of them for the
Chesapeake.

Paper charts are pretty easy to update - you can just write on them.
Getting the updates are more of a problem because the Notice to
Mariners are not organized (IMHO) in a way to make this easy to do.
Outside of the US, the charts are not updated very much. Some charts
may have been done in 1899, and have not been updated since. Or they
may have big blank areas on them with no depths indicated.

You're bundling two different "updatings" together, here.
Corrections from LNM (or yearly summaries) generally involve more
"immediate" corrections/updates for known changes to lights, buoys,
wrecks, shoals, rocks, etc..
When enough changes have occurred or newer surveys show major changes
you will get a "new edition" of a chart.
The fact that basic data on a chart may date to "1899", does not
necessarily mean that the information on the entire chart has not been
updated from/since that date.
Personally, the only time I've ever had a problem following the
corrections from LNM is when I've left a chart uncorrected for long
periods, and yes, charts outside the US are frequently updated/corrected.


Sometimes people copy each other's charts or trade charts. If I have
a lot of charts of the west coast of Mexico, and I go through the
Panama Canal into the Caribbean where I meet someone who is going the
other way, we may trade - I give them my Mexican charts and they give
me their Caribbean charts. I hear about this a lot, and I see people
offering charts, but I don't know how often it happens in real life or
how helpful these charts would be.

Not a practice I'd recommend, since you are relying on the other guy to
have maintained his charts up to date.



I also have computer charts for these areas, which I do not print out,
but use with a GPS in the cockpit. They show me where I am, and have
the advantage that even if the buoy's are renumbered, I can still see
where I am. If buoy #36 is next to my boat, but the chart says it is
buoy #24, that's OK - I still know where I am.

Yup...... about to run over a wreck/rock/etc., that the corrections
would have shown, causing the relocation and re-numbering of the buoys.

otnmbrd wrote:
Rosalie B. wrote:

I don't know where you are or what kind of boating you intend to do.
But here are some general thoughts.

I haven't seen the necessity to do much updating of any paper charts
we have. I don't actually purchase the large paper charts very often,
although the PO of our boat had a large number of them for the
Chesapeake.

Paper charts are pretty easy to update - you can just write on them.
Getting the updates are more of a problem because the Notice to
Mariners are not organized (IMHO) in a way to make this easy to do.
Outside of the US, the charts are not updated very much. Some charts
may have been done in 1899, and have not been updated since. Or they
may have big blank areas on them with no depths indicated.

You're bundling two different "updatings" together, here.
Corrections from LNM (or yearly summaries) generally involve more
"immediate" corrections/updates for known changes to lights, buoys,
wrecks, shoals, rocks, etc..

The problem is that there are so MANY different locations to get
updated. If you are actively cruising, it is difficult (or at least
it is for me) to keep up with all of the different areas.

And people just don't do it. I've several times heard people coming
down into Beaufort that tried to come in the old channel which has
shoaled over, but it is still on the charts. And when we went to the
Dry Tortugas, I knew that one of the channels was closed, but didn't
know which one until we got there and saw the new markers.

When enough changes have occurred or newer surveys show major changes
you will get a "new edition" of a chart.

That is true - the chart-kit that we got with our boat for the
Chesapeake was seriously out of date in regard to buoys, and so were
some of the paper charts that the PO had.

I also find that updating the computer charts is easier. You can just
buy a CD and use it to update your computer charts.

The fact that basic data on a chart may date to "1899", does not
necessarily mean that the information on the entire chart has not been
updated from/since that date.

Sometimes it does, and sometimes it doesn't. The charts for Bimini
have the island offset from its actual position by about a mile. Some
of the charts you buy have corrected this, and some have not. You
can't tell which is which unless you plot your position.

Personally, the only time I've ever had a problem following the
corrections from LNM is when I've left a chart uncorrected for long
periods, and yes, charts outside the US are frequently updated/corrected.


Sometimes people copy each other's charts or trade charts. If I have
a lot of charts of the west coast of Mexico, and I go through the
Panama Canal into the Caribbean where I meet someone who is going the
other way, we may trade - I give them my Mexican charts and they give
me their Caribbean charts. I hear about this a lot, and I see people
offering charts, but I don't know how often it happens in real life or
how helpful these charts would be.

Not a practice I'd recommend, since you are relying on the other guy to
have maintained his charts up to date.

I wouldn't want to do it either, but sometimes cruisers can't afford
to buy multiple charts. They do this with cruising guides too - some
people make notes and the notes are passed around. Sometimes the
notes get to be a book.

I also have computer charts for these areas, which I do not print out,
but use with a GPS in the cockpit. They show me where I am, and have
the advantage that even if the buoy's are renumbered, I can still see
where I am. If buoy #36 is next to my boat, but the chart says it is
buoy #24, that's OK - I still know where I am.

Yup...... about to run over a wreck/rock/etc., that the corrections
would have shown, causing the relocation and re-numbering of the buoys.

Like in the Alligator River where they've added buoys around a shoal.
I'm not very sympathetic to the power boat that waked me that goes
charging down the river without noticing the new buoys and goes hard
aground.

But that's not what I'm talking about really. If you are right there
in person and paying attention, you can be sure that you are on the
correct side of the buoy, even if it isn't on the chart (that's why I
don't put waypoints into the autopilot for it to follow).

It is just that if you are in the St. Mary's River (GA) and you are
looking to go down to Fernandina and the chart says that you turn at
buoy 24, and you actually turn at buoy 24 instead of the new place
which is now buoy 34, you will be in trouble. Actually if you were
coming in from the sea, you'd probably still be in the entrance
channel. The problem would be when you come down the ICW from GA.


grandma Rosalie

[btw, I do have a mac, so thanks for the tip. Note the ENC charts are
free to download, so the cd you are geting is more of a convenience
bundle.]


The problem is that there are so MANY different locations to get
updated. If you are actively cruising, it is difficult (or at least
it is for me) to keep up with all of the different areas.

I agree with this. It's not hard to deal with, but it requires a lot
of due dilligence. I am not a full-time cruiser--I go on trips once a
year. I would have to either:
1) get all charts early on, and update constantly for evey possible
location where I might cruise as NM and LNM come out, or
2) update the charts needed for my cruise with all information since
the last update.

For me, either option is too much. I just came back froma trip down to
St. Mary's River, in fact (was there in June), and I admit that having
an up-to-date chat would have been helpful. But I was able to get by
quite nicely with the existing charts, a copy of Reed's, a local
cruising guide, a pair of eyes and some common sense. So this is my
option 3.

Next year I'll try the ENC charts; those apparently are updated on-line
with NM/LNM.



Like in the Alligator River where they've added buoys around a shoal.
I'm not very sympathetic to the power boat that waked me that goes
charging down the river without noticing the new buoys and goes hard
aground.

You ran into that guy too? :) The irony in this is that, when I passed
the powerboat hard aground (he also had a towboat next to him, but they
weren't doing much yet), the _powerboat_ asked _me_ to slow down so I
wouldn't wake him and damage his stern gear!

Cheers
Y