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Docking - It's coming together.
For those of you who read and responded to my docking angst:
It’s a great feeling when it starts coming together. We returned late yesterday afternoon tired and burnt from our first overnight and headwinds all the way back. The docking scenario was the usual for our slip, strong quartering tailwind blowing the boat off the dock which is on the side the reverse sternwalk swings away from. The ebb tide also runs across these slips in about the same direction as the wind so everything is resisting stopping the boat and pushing it away from the finger dock. We didn’t have the tide to cope with last night but the same method has worked well on days that it did with the same shore breeze. This docking began with the discovery that someone had docked a damaged boat with the mast on deck sticking about ten feet out into our already tight turning area. My wife has finally learned that yelling, "You’re too close to that boat!" isn’t a necessary part of the docking procedure and my kids interestedly inspected the masthead as it went by about eight inches away. As we swung into the slip, a neighboring transient boat owner ran over and then just stood there as the lines went ashore and the boat stopped. He said, "I was going to help but the young men seem to have it completely under control. They really know what they are doing." That made everybody feel pretty good. Here’s what’s working for us if anyone else is still struggling with this: Bow and stern lines laid out along the rail amidships to the boarding gate. Aft spring only coiled and ready to go. One kid takes each line and jumps as soon as the end of the dock reaches midships. Their instructions are simple, pull the slack out the line, get two round turns on the cleat as quickly as they can, hold. Don’t wait for any instructions. With the stern line on, I can back as hard as necessary to stop and hold the boat. I can get the boat so the linehandlers step off across just a few inches of water but the boat still ends up about six feet out by the time the lines are on. I then pull and release the stern line as my son holds and takes up the slack to pull the stern in. Intermittent applications of reverse keep us in position. When the boat is close enough for the sternson to reach the spring line, he cleats it and sets the spring. Then it’s engines off and pull the bow in. Forward spring is set at leisure. I’ve done this with just one line handler and it works just as well as long as the stern line goes on first with a couple of additional diagonal turns. We’re at the point now where we can do the whole evolution without a word being spoken so we’re going to start looking very smooth to the loungers on the other boats. Here’s our undocking procedu Cast off lines. Brief application of reverse until boat starts to move and then neutral as I learned from this newsgroup. Son tending dinghy drops painter which he forgot to secure as ordered (or maybe it slipped off the cleat). Other son yells. Stop boat which starts to swing into piling. Son reaches down and grabs dinghy painter. Resume backing out. Snap hook (now replaced) twists in such a way as strain come on painter that it pops off. Son yells. Helmsman gets that deer in the headlights look. Other son has presence of mind to grab boathook, snare dinghy thwart, and hold on. Continue reverse towing dinghy with boathook. Watch bow swing and anchor miss piling by quarter inch. Get clear, stop, and secure dinghy. Motor sedately away as if it was all planned. Yes, it’s great when it all starts coming together. -- Roger Long |
Congratulations, Roger!!
Soon, you'll be backing her in, and departure will be a piece of cake :{)) L8R Skip, refitting as fast as I can, with more railing installation today (see the projects gallery if you're interested in what's up aboard) Morgan 461 #2 SV Flying Pig http://tinyurl.com/384p2 - The vessel as Tehamana, as we bought her "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover." - Mark Twain |
"Roger Long" wrote in
: For those of you who read and responded to my docking angst: Any docking you can walk away from without getting your feet wet is a good docking....(c; -- Larry |
In article ,
"Roger Long" wrote: For those of you who read and responded to my docking angst: It’s a great feeling when it starts coming together. We returned late yesterday afternoon tired and burnt from our first overnight and headwinds all the way back, snip , a neighboring transient boat owner ran over and then just stood there as the lines went ashore and the boat stopped. He said, "I was going to help but the young men seem to have it completely under control. They really know what they are doing." That made everybody feel pretty good. Well done! You've gotten it smoothed out enough that you can come in dog-tired, the landscape can change (that mast) and you still look good... Here’s our undocking procedu Cast off lines. snip of Murphy in action Motor sedately away as if it was all planned. Yes, it’s great when it all starts coming together. Yup, ain't it? Make sure you tell the crew how good they made the skipper look. -- Jere Lull Xan-a-Deux ('73 Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD) Xan's Pages: http://members.dca.net/jerelull/X-Main.html Our BVI FAQs (290+ pics) http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/ |
Sounds great Roger! The only suggestion I have is not to tell or allow
people to "jump" off the boat. That's a recipe for disaster. -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com "Roger Long" wrote in message ... For those of you who read and responded to my docking angst: It's a great feeling when it starts coming together. We returned late yesterday afternoon tired and burnt from our first overnight and headwinds all the way back. The docking scenario was the usual for our slip, strong quartering tailwind blowing the boat off the dock which is on the side the reverse sternwalk swings away from. The ebb tide also runs across these slips in about the same direction as the wind so everything is resisting stopping the boat and pushing it away from the finger dock. We didn't have the tide to cope with last night but the same method has worked well on days that it did with the same shore breeze. This docking began with the discovery that someone had docked a damaged boat with the mast on deck sticking about ten feet out into our already tight turning area. My wife has finally learned that yelling, "You're too close to that boat!" isn't a necessary part of the docking procedure and my kids interestedly inspected the masthead as it went by about eight inches away. As we swung into the slip, a neighboring transient boat owner ran over and then just stood there as the lines went ashore and the boat stopped. He said, "I was going to help but the young men seem to have it completely under control. They really know what they are doing." That made everybody feel pretty good. Here's what's working for us if anyone else is still struggling with this: Bow and stern lines laid out along the rail amidships to the boarding gate. Aft spring only coiled and ready to go. One kid takes each line and jumps as soon as the end of the dock reaches midships. Their instructions are simple, pull the slack out the line, get two round turns on the cleat as quickly as they can, hold. Don't wait for any instructions. With the stern line on, I can back as hard as necessary to stop and hold the boat. I can get the boat so the linehandlers step off across just a few inches of water but the boat still ends up about six feet out by the time the lines are on. I then pull and release the stern line as my son holds and takes up the slack to pull the stern in. Intermittent applications of reverse keep us in position. When the boat is close enough for the sternson to reach the spring line, he cleats it and sets the spring. Then it's engines off and pull the bow in. Forward spring is set at leisure. I've done this with just one line handler and it works just as well as long as the stern line goes on first with a couple of additional diagonal turns. We're at the point now where we can do the whole evolution without a word being spoken so we're going to start looking very smooth to the loungers on the other boats. Here's our undocking procedu Cast off lines. Brief application of reverse until boat starts to move and then neutral as I learned from this newsgroup. Son tending dinghy drops painter which he forgot to secure as ordered (or maybe it slipped off the cleat). Other son yells. Stop boat which starts to swing into piling. Son reaches down and grabs dinghy painter. Resume backing out. Snap hook (now replaced) twists in such a way as strain come on painter that it pops off. Son yells. Helmsman gets that deer in the headlights look. Other son has presence of mind to grab boathook, snare dinghy thwart, and hold on. Continue reverse towing dinghy with boathook. Watch bow swing and anchor miss piling by quarter inch. Get clear, stop, and secure dinghy. Motor sedately away as if it was all planned. Yes, it's great when it all starts coming together. -- Roger Long |
Well, you did better yesterday than we did. :-) Newly acquired
Fischer 37, no familiarity with her, first time into her 40' of tight berth (boats at both ends that weren't there when we first delivered her) approachable only in from the side, 12kt breeze right off the beam sending her in, little 4" wood dock bollards that won't take much pull, and those sadistically placed exposed steel straps & bolts some dockbuilders can't seem to do without. Cap't (not I) a little too timid with the unfamiliar throttle. No Chinese firedrill & a gingerly step ashore for me, but some nice long paint scars incurred while we tried to help his confidence by chanting: "Bob is the best!!! Bob is the best!!!". ;-) Were it a big RO/RO ferry or a Panamax OBO he could've docked her perfectly without tugs & he's done that 1,000 times, but you know how it goes when one gets one's own BOAT. :-) Getting her off hours earlier in the same conditions was "interesting" too, until we realized how to back her out against a fwd springer without raking her bow down the dock. All we had to do upon reberthing was repeat the same evolution, but that was too simple & easy for us to do. This is what 6 hours of perfect water & air can do to otherwise reasonable men. So, Altair now has a semipermanent reminder of our initial ineptitude & good cheer. It could've been much worse - the neighboring dockparty drunks could've been around screaming obscenities... |
"Capt. JG" wrote in message
... Sounds great Roger! The only suggestion I have is not to tell or allow people to "jump" off the boat. That's a recipe for disaster. Well Cap., I'm here to learn so please tell me how your would handle this docking. With the wind, current, and sternwalk, this boat can't be brought to a stop without ending up far from the dock and the stern too far out to get a line ashore or in the space of the boat that will soon be next door. The line to hold against the sternwalk yaw is an essential part of stopping the boat. That means someone has to step off while the boat is still moving. I did do a pass around the end of the main pier and put a son ashore once. That worked well but still involved a step off of an unsecured boat. Seeing him subsequently leaning out to grab the lines (line throwing skills are still pretty primitive in the rest of the crew and there will often be just two of us) didn't make me comfortable. The electrical installation in our marina, like most I suspect, is pretty funky. I'd rather risk someone sprawling on a dock than going in the water. After more experience with the boat, I may learn to approach crabbed and use the sternwalk to swing the stern away from the welded metal dock corner. Having watched the boat however, I suspect it will just end up at whatever distance from the finger the bow is since the bow will be blowing downwind pretty much independently as the prop takes hold. This would probably result in a longer jump. My boat handling skills have come back pretty quickly and I can put the boat very close to the dock so it's a step rather than a leap. My sons don't seem to notice that the boat is moving when they step off. If I do end up farther away, I'd rather have them jumping onto wood than leaning over water between boat and dock. I'm quite prepared though to believe that I'm doing this all wrong so, please, enlighten me. -- Roger Long |
You should (well, might) be able to control the boat without anyone
jumping to the the dock. If you have an after spring already cleated at the bow such that the eye just reaches a dock cleat, all you have to do is snag the cleat as you go by. Admittedly, this is easier said than done, but I have a line with 6 feet of lifeline cable fed into the single braid, and so far, my wife has been able to snag the cleat if I can get the bow close. With your lower freeboard, and more agile kids, it should be easy, and they still have the opportunity to jump to the dock. Once you're snubbed on that, you can stay idling in forward, and use the rudder to swing the bow or stern in as needed. The dynamics will, of course, vary from boat to boat, and you may needed to play some with the attachment points. Yesterday, I used this technique to come in with the wind blowing 10 knots off the dock. Once snubbed, we were stopped a few feet behind the boat in front, and with a little throttle I could tuck in the stern and hold the boat against the dock. Roger Long wrote: For those of you who read and responded to my docking angst: It’s a great feeling when it starts coming together. We returned late yesterday afternoon tired and burnt from our first overnight and headwinds all the way back. The docking scenario was the usual for our slip, strong quartering tailwind blowing the boat off the dock which is on the side the reverse sternwalk swings away from. The ebb tide also runs across these slips in about the same direction as the wind so everything is resisting stopping the boat and pushing it away from the finger dock. We didn’t have the tide to cope with last night but the same method has worked well on days that it did with the same shore breeze. This docking began with the discovery that someone had docked a damaged boat with the mast on deck sticking about ten feet out into our already tight turning area. My wife has finally learned that yelling, "You’re too close to that boat!" isn’t a necessary part of the docking procedure and my kids interestedly inspected the masthead as it went by about eight inches away. As we swung into the slip, a neighboring transient boat owner ran over and then just stood there as the lines went ashore and the boat stopped. He said, "I was going to help but the young men seem to have it completely under control. They really know what they are doing." That made everybody feel pretty good. Here’s what’s working for us if anyone else is still struggling with this: Bow and stern lines laid out along the rail amidships to the boarding gate. Aft spring only coiled and ready to go. One kid takes each line and jumps as soon as the end of the dock reaches midships. Their instructions are simple, pull the slack out the line, get two round turns on the cleat as quickly as they can, hold. Don’t wait for any instructions. With the stern line on, I can back as hard as necessary to stop and hold the boat. I can get the boat so the linehandlers step off across just a few inches of water but the boat still ends up about six feet out by the time the lines are on. I then pull and release the stern line as my son holds and takes up the slack to pull the stern in. Intermittent applications of reverse keep us in position. When the boat is close enough for the sternson to reach the spring line, he cleats it and sets the spring. Then it’s engines off and pull the bow in. Forward spring is set at leisure. I’ve done this with just one line handler and it works just as well as long as the stern line goes on first with a couple of additional diagonal turns. We’re at the point now where we can do the whole evolution without a word being spoken so we’re going to start looking very smooth to the loungers on the other boats. Here’s our undocking procedu Cast off lines. Brief application of reverse until boat starts to move and then neutral as I learned from this newsgroup. Son tending dinghy drops painter which he forgot to secure as ordered (or maybe it slipped off the cleat). Other son yells. Stop boat which starts to swing into piling. Son reaches down and grabs dinghy painter. Resume backing out. Snap hook (now replaced) twists in such a way as strain come on painter that it pops off. Son yells. Helmsman gets that deer in the headlights look. Other son has presence of mind to grab boathook, snare dinghy thwart, and hold on. Continue reverse towing dinghy with boathook. Watch bow swing and anchor miss piling by quarter inch. Get clear, stop, and secure dinghy. Motor sedately away as if it was all planned. Yes, it’s great when it all starts coming together. |
"Roger Long" wrote in message
... "Capt. JG" wrote in message ... Sounds great Roger! The only suggestion I have is not to tell or allow people to "jump" off the boat. That's a recipe for disaster. Well Cap., I'm here to learn so please tell me how your would handle this docking. With the wind, current, and sternwalk, this boat can't be brought to a stop without ending up far from the dock and the stern too far out to get a line ashore or in the space of the boat that will soon be next door. The line to hold against the sternwalk yaw is an essential part of stopping the boat. That means someone has to step off while the boat is still moving. I did do a pass around the end of the main pier and put a son ashore once. That worked well but still involved a step off of an unsecured boat. Seeing him subsequently leaning out to grab the lines (line throwing skills are still pretty primitive in the rest of the crew and there will often be just two of us) didn't make me comfortable. The electrical installation in our marina, like most I suspect, is pretty funky. I'd rather risk someone sprawling on a dock than going in the water. After more experience with the boat, I may learn to approach crabbed and use the sternwalk to swing the stern away from the welded metal dock corner. Having watched the boat however, I suspect it will just end up at whatever distance from the finger the bow is since the bow will be blowing downwind pretty much independently as the prop takes hold. This would probably result in a longer jump. My boat handling skills have come back pretty quickly and I can put the boat very close to the dock so it's a step rather than a leap. My sons don't seem to notice that the boat is moving when they step off. If I do end up farther away, I'd rather have them jumping onto wood than leaning over water between boat and dock. I'm quite prepared though to believe that I'm doing this all wrong so, please, enlighten me. -- Roger Long No...I think you're doing most everything right. My only quibble is that making a practice of jumping can lead to nasty consequences. Typically, I have people refrain, but I will have them outside the lifelines, holding onto the shrouds. I tell them if we don't get close enough to step off, don't jump, and we'll try again. I'm not so concerned with landing on the dock, as I am with people falling between the boat and the dock. Then, the boat closes with the dock, and the person is a human fender... bad news really. |
"Capt. JG" wrote in message
... "Roger Long" wrote in message No...I think you're doing most everything right. I'm not so concerned with landing on the dock, as I am with people falling between the boat and the dock. Then, the boat closes with the dock, and the person is a human fender... bad news really. Ah, good. I will remember though to add to my SOP commands, when conditions are creating closure with dock as opposed to a struggle to get close, "Don't step off until we touch." -- Roger Long |
In article ,
"Roger Long" wrote: With the wind, current, and sternwalk, this boat can't be brought to a stop without ending up far from the dock and the stern too far out to get a line ashore or in the space of the boat that will soon be next door. The line to hold against the sternwalk yaw is an essential part of stopping the boat. That means someone has to step off while the boat is still moving. Our technique involves keeping all lines on the dock. I have one specific line to pick up as I come in, the spring from the outermost "inside" piling that drops over the winch. Once I put that line on, I can power forward all I want and not hit the dock. Twiddling the rudder moves the bow port or starboard so my crew can pick up the bow lines without stretching too far. Once those three lines are on, the motor can be killed and the other lines dropped on. We're small and maneuverable enough that I can reach that spring by hand; others may need to grab it with a hook. I spliced loops into the lines so they're "drop and forget", which makes life a lot simpler. -- Jere Lull Xan-a-Deux ('73 Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD) Xan's Pages: http://members.dca.net/jerelull/X-Main.html Our BVI FAQs (290+ pics) http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/ |
Good plan.
We're in training mode here so I'm trying to use our home dock to teach us the things we'll need to know elsewhere. Just like moving most of the sail handling lines from the cockpit to the mast, we're doing many things the hard way for a greater purpose. -- Roger Long "Jere Lull" wrote Our technique involves keeping all lines on the dock. I have one specific line to pick up as I come in, the spring from the outermost "inside" piling that drops over the winch. Once I put that line on, I can power forward all I want and not hit the dock. Twiddling the rudder moves the bow port or starboard so my crew can pick up the bow lines without stretching too far. Once those three lines are on, the motor can be killed and the other lines dropped on. We're small and maneuverable enough that I can reach that spring by hand; others may need to grab it with a hook. I spliced loops into the lines so they're "drop and forget", which makes life a lot simpler. |
How large is your boat? Ours is fairly heavy for a 32 footer and,
even at the minimum speed for rudder authority, it would be quite a jerk coming up against a hard loop like that with the current behind us. Cushioning with reverse would draw the stern out assisted by the springing effect. Big recovery with lots of forward power then to get the stern back in. Missing the loop wouldn't allow thought and action time to get the engine in reverse before running up on the main dock. Our finger is just the length of our boat. I tried all sorts of spring line scenarios first because of my large boat experience which resulted in some good shows for our neighbors. When my kids are more experienced line handlers and know how to ease and hold without shouted instructions, I'll probably go back to using springs more. Right now, I'm trying to keep line loads, especially sudden ones, to a minimum since inexperienced fingers are holding lines close to cleats. The nice thing about my current method is that the sideways sternwalk force is the largest line pull aside from windage. Nice and easy, no dock contact, no vessel inertia against the lines. When the wind is from the northwest, it's easy. Just pull up, stop, and blow in. -- Roger Long "Jeff" wrote in message ... You should (well, might) be able to control the boat without anyone jumping to the the dock. If you have an after spring already cleated at the bow such that the eye just reaches a dock cleat, all you have to do is snag the cleat as you go by. Admittedly, this is easier said than done, but I have a |
Jere Lull wrote:
In article , "Roger Long" wrote: With the wind, current, and sternwalk, this boat can't be brought to a stop without ending up far from the dock and the stern too far out to get a line ashore or in the space of the boat that will soon be next door. The line to hold against the sternwalk yaw is an essential part of stopping the boat. That means someone has to step off while the boat is still moving. Our technique involves keeping all lines on the dock. We do the same at our home marina. All the lines are on the pilings - makes it much simpler because all we have to do is pick up the midships spring lines and hold the boat there while we get the rest of the rear lines. I have one specific line to pick up as I come in, the spring from the outermost "inside" piling that drops over the winch. Once I put that line on, I can power forward all I want and not hit the dock. Twiddling the rudder moves the bow port or starboard so my crew can pick up the bow lines without stretching too far. Once those three lines are on, the motor can be killed and the other lines dropped on. We're small and maneuverable enough that I can reach that spring by hand; others may need to grab it with a hook. I spliced loops into the lines so they're "drop and forget", which makes life a lot simpler. We just have chafe gear on the lines at the point where they go through the hawse holes or wherever they come aboard the boat. That way I can pull the line through and cleat it off on the boat and if I have the chafe gear in the proper place the line will be the right length. We are big enough that we have boat hooks for each lines person. If we have to move the boat against any wind or current, it takes two of us, so we aren't that maneuverable. grandma Rosalie |
"Roger Long" wrote:
Good plan. We're in training mode here so I'm trying to use our home dock to teach us the things we'll need to know elsewhere. Just like moving most of the sail handling lines from the cockpit to the mast, we're doing many things the hard way for a greater purpose. When we come into a strange dock, Bob puts ***at least*** 6 lines out. Two bow, 2 stern and 2 midships. They are attached to the boat and go through the fairleads and coiled draped back over the lifelines. That way no matter which way we come into the dock, there's always an appropriate line already rigged AND attached to the boat. I can't tell you how many times I've seen boaters approaching the dock, and then have to go looking in the lockers for lines. Usually, but not always, power boaters. I've even seen a shrimp boat coming into the gas dock at Palmer Johnson in Thunderbolt who threw a dock line to the dock master without securing the other end to the boat. I don't jump. Ever. I may step off if the boat is close enough to do that and if the dock isn't too different in level from the deck, but that's really rare. We had a visitor that attempted to leap from our deck with a line at the Dismal Swamp Visitor's Center, and he slipped and went down between the two boats and almost into the water. He was really badly bruised in the ribs and it was fortunate that he got back on deck before the boats 'met'. I try to give the midships line to a dock person if there is one. We rarely come into a dock where there is no dock person. (I am not too proud to make it clear when I call that we need assistance) In that case, Bob has to get the boat up close enough to some piling or other attachment point so that I can put the line around it and secure it. grandma Rosalie |
Roger Long wrote:
How large is your boat? Ours is fairly heavy for a 32 footer and, even at the minimum speed for rudder authority, it would be quite a jerk coming up against a hard loop like that with the current behind us. Cushioning with reverse would draw the stern out assisted by the springing effect. Big recovery with lots of forward power then to get the stern back in. I have a 36 foot catamaran, with a fair amount of windage and not much weight (about 10,000 lbs loaded) and not much keel efficiency at low speed. My problem is that I'm on a face, with large boats in front and behind, so I have to work the boat sideways, often against the wind. You don't want to snub up suddenly, but if you can glide in and simply burn off speed this technique might work for you. Once the boat is stopped, you can use as much forward as needed to draw the stern back in - in fact, you should be able to waggle the boat back and forth with the helm. Missing the loop wouldn't allow thought and action time to get the engine in reverse before running up on the main dock. Our finger is just the length of our boat. You have the full length of the boat, which must be the same space you're already using. Remember, all you actually have to do is bring the bow to the tip of the finger and then ease the boat in. Once the spring is attached, several degrees of freedom have been removed from the system. I tried all sorts of spring line scenarios first because of my large boat experience which resulted in some good shows for our neighbors. When my kids are more experienced line handlers and know how to ease and hold without shouted instructions, I'll probably go back to using springs more. Right now, I'm trying to keep line loads, especially sudden ones, to a minimum since inexperienced fingers are holding lines close to cleats. I had to go to this because bystanders would tend to grab the nearest line and cleat it randomly, often leaving use dangling 15 feet away from the dock. By stay focused on getting one preset line on the proper cleat, I then have full control from the helm. The nice thing about my current method is that the sideways sternwalk force is the largest line pull aside from windage. Nice and easy, no dock contact, no vessel inertia against the lines. Its fine as long as you have enough hands. When the wind is from the northwest, it's easy. Just pull up, stop, and blow in. Yup. Murphy's Law, however. The wind is always worst when there's no one on the dock to help. |
"Roger Long" wrote in message
... "Capt. JG" wrote in message ... "Roger Long" wrote in message No...I think you're doing most everything right. I'm not so concerned with landing on the dock, as I am with people falling between the boat and the dock. Then, the boat closes with the dock, and the person is a human fender... bad news really. Ah, good. I will remember though to add to my SOP commands, when conditions are creating closure with dock as opposed to a struggle to get close, "Don't step off until we touch." -- Roger Long Either that or fling yourself onto the dock, arms and legs akimbo!! :-) |
Certainly a very sound method and probably the best option for getting
into a spot like yours. It's also one we need to learn. We're still at the stage where I'm trying to minimize the feeding out of lines. I have great respect for the inertia of 12,000 pounds at even minimum speed if a loop takes a finger or foot into a chock. -- Roger Long |
Capt. JG wrote:
"Roger Long" wrote in message ... "Capt. JG" wrote in message ... "Roger Long" wrote in message No...I think you're doing most everything right. I'm not so concerned with landing on the dock, as I am with people falling between the boat and the dock. Then, the boat closes with the dock, and the person is a human fender... bad news really. Ah, good. I will remember though to add to my SOP commands, when conditions are creating closure with dock as opposed to a struggle to get close, "Don't step off until we touch." -- Roger Long Either that or fling yourself onto the dock, arms and legs akimbo!! :-) Dammit, as if gronicles weren't enough! What the hell is a kimbo? |
Dammit, as if gronicles weren't enough! What the hell is a kimbo?
It's the thing you need a lert for in order to avoid having to use it. -- Roger Long |
"Roger Long" wrote in message
... Dammit, as if gronicles weren't enough! What the hell is a kimbo? It's the thing you need a lert for in order to avoid having to use it. -- Roger Long I thought it was something left over from WWII.... |
In article ,
"Capt. JG" wrote: My only quibble is that making a practice of jumping can lead to nasty consequences. I second that opinion. Crew member on our friend's boat jumped to the dock and broke both ankles. Put a serious damper on that BVI trip for two crews, he and his wife spent quite a bit of time in hospitals, and he was walking with canes a year or two later. The only crew member that steps (not leaps) to the dock is me, and only after I've stopped the boat where I want it to be. I "scolded" my wife the other day for stretching too far to reach the fuel dock line. If she can't stand upright and reach the line with the boat hook, I'm doing something wrong (or she's being impatient). -- Jere Lull Xan-a-Deux ('73 Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD) Xan's Pages: http://members.dca.net/jerelull/X-Main.html Our BVI FAQs (290+ pics) http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/ |
In article ,
"Roger Long" wrote: How large is your boat? Ours is fairly heavy for a 32 footer and, even at the minimum speed for rudder authority, it would be quite a jerk coming up against a hard loop like that with the current behind us. Cushioning with reverse would draw the stern out assisted by the springing effect. Big recovery with lots of forward power then to get the stern back in. Have you tried a short, hard reverse and noticed the effect on prop walk? We're 7,000+ pounds, swinging a 16" 3-blade and that stops or starts us straight with a quick burst. At minimum reverse and a hard-over rudder, I can flip the boat in about its length with prop walk. All boats differ, of course. -- Jere Lull Xan-a-Deux ('73 Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD) Xan's Pages: http://members.dca.net/jerelull/X-Main.html Our BVI FAQs (290+ pics) http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/ |
"Jere Lull" wrote in message news:jerelull- Have
you tried a short, hard reverse and noticed the effect on prop walk? Yes, we can do that. However, with the current behind us, stopping relative to the dock means reversing direction and establishing a half to three quarter knots of stern speed relative to the water. Getting that flow reversed over the hull with a period of being motionless in the water while still moving forward fast enough to bump the main dock hard lets the stern start swinging. The current also runs at an angle away from the dock. The dock slows the cross current for the front part of the boat while the stern is still sticking out. You've really got to get that stern line on. -- Roger Long |
In article ,
"Roger Long" wrote: "Jere Lull" wrote in message news:jerelull- Have you tried a short, hard reverse and noticed the effect on prop walk? Yes, we can do that. However, with the current behind us, stopping relative to the dock means reversing direction and establishing a half to three quarter knots of stern speed relative to the water. Getting that flow reversed over the hull with a period of being motionless in the water while still moving forward fast enough to bump the main dock hard lets the stern start swinging. The current also runs at an angle away from the dock. The dock slows the cross current for the front part of the boat while the stern is still sticking out. You've really got to get that stern line on. Oh! THOSE conditions change the equation considerably. I'm even more impressed by you and your crew's performance the other day. That spring line is your best friend... -- Jere Lull Xan-a-Deux ('73 Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD) Xan's Pages: http://members.dca.net/jerelull/X-Main.html Our BVI FAQs (290+ pics) http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/ |
On Mon, 18 Jul 2005 02:14:22 GMT, Rosalie B.
wrote: I don't jump. Ever. I may step off if the boat is close enough to do that and if the dock isn't too different in level from the deck, but that's really rare. [..] I try to give the midships line to a dock person if there is one. We rarely come into a dock where there is no dock person. (I am not too proud to make it clear when I call that we need assistance) In that case, Bob has to get the boat up close enough to some piling or other attachment point so that I can put the line around it and secure it. Does that pose significant limitations on where you can go? I am afraid of jumping to a dock, and even things that most people would consider a step feel like a jump to me. I have particular problems with - narrow floating docks which are going to lurch when I land - anything that looks like bad footing - any situation where my skipper has no room to abort and come around again if I lose my nerve or don't like the look of it the first time around - wind, current, or approach at speed and when we're doublehanding, that does limit where we can go. What I can manage to do, sometimes, is to stand outside the lifelines at the shrouds, holding a midships line and/or a bowline, and step off backwards so that I'm using my arms to lower me as close as possible to the dock before I have to let go. I wonder if there are any other tricks, given that I'm a short woman with short legs and not a lot of upper body strength. I can also practice stepping or jumping as a backup to a more reliable person who is holding one of the lines, so that I can get a sense of how it feels even if I'm not quick enough yet. Any other suggestions? Louise |
Louise wrote:
On Mon, 18 Jul 2005 02:14:22 GMT, Rosalie B. wrote: I don't jump. Ever. I may step off if the boat is close enough to do that and if the dock isn't too different in level from the deck, but that's really rare. [..] I try to give the midships line to a dock person if there is one. We rarely come into a dock where there is no dock person. (I am not too proud to make it clear when I call that we need assistance) In that case, Bob has to get the boat up close enough to some piling or other attachment point so that I can put the line around it and secure it. Does that pose significant limitations on where you can go? I am afraid of jumping to a dock, and even things that most people would consider a step feel like a jump to me. I have particular problems with - narrow floating docks which are going to lurch when I land - anything that looks like bad footing - any situation where my skipper has no room to abort and come around again if I lose my nerve or don't like the look of it the first time around - wind, current, or approach at speed and when we're doublehanding, that does limit where we can go. What I can manage to do, sometimes, is to stand outside the lifelines at the shrouds, holding a midships line and/or a bowline, and step off backwards so that I'm using my arms to lower me as close as possible to the dock before I have to let go. I wonder if there are any other tricks, given that I'm a short woman with short legs and not a lot of upper body strength. I can also practice stepping or jumping as a backup to a more reliable person who is holding one of the lines, so that I can get a sense of how it feels even if I'm not quick enough yet. Any other suggestions? Louise The boat I crewed on for 3 or 4 summers was a 33'' sailboat with fairly high freeboard. One of our female crew made a wild jump when coming back into our slip and broke her ankle. Our skipper had a rubbermaid plastic two step unit nailed to his slip to help people getting on & off. I would go forward , hold onto a shroud and step off on the 'stepping device just at the right time and quickly pick up the stern spring line left right there by me when we had departed. I could get the line on the midship cleat and stop forward motion before the boat drifted the last ten feet (before the bow hit the main floating walkway) |
Louise wrote:
On Mon, 18 Jul 2005 02:14:22 GMT, Rosalie B. wrote: I don't jump. Ever. I may step off if the boat is close enough to do that and if the dock isn't too different in level from the deck, but that's really rare. [..] I try to give the midships line to a dock person if there is one. We rarely come into a dock where there is no dock person. (I am not too proud to make it clear when I call that we need assistance) In that case, Bob has to get the boat up close enough to some piling or other attachment point so that I can put the line around it and secure it. Does that pose significant limitations on where you can go? I am We've been to many marinas in the Chesapeake and have been up and down the ICW for three winters. I would not say that it poses significant limitations. Many many different marinas. (I'll count sometime) afraid of jumping to a dock, and even things that most people would consider a step feel like a jump to me. I have particular problems with - narrow floating docks which are going to lurch when I land I can't jump down onto floating docks at all because I have really bad knees, and going down a step means that I have to have all my weight on a bending knee. Going up is much easier. But most floating docks have some kind of piling that I can lasso if necessary. Bob is very good at getting our boat in close to the dock and 'stopped'. If necessary I can lasso some kind of structure and HE will get off. After we get tied up, we have a two step plastic stool that we put on the dock so I can get on and off. - anything that looks like bad footing I don't jump regardless of how the footing looks. - any situation where my skipper has no room to abort and come around again if I lose my nerve or don't like the look of it the first time around Bob may have difficulty, but he is quite a good skipper and this rarely happens. The biggest problem is if there is a big boat blocking his view of the slip - sometimes he may have to back up in the fairway which isn't easy. This happened coming into Miamarina when there was a gale blowing, but he turned around to go into the correct slip so well that a guy on a boat on the end thought we had bow thrusters. - wind, current, or approach at speed Wind and current are impossible to control. We just don't approach at speed. We have been approaching a face dock where we were supposed to go in between two other boats, and Bob lined the boat up parallel to the dock, and the wind blew us sideways into the dock. Hit it pretty hard, so fortunately we were exactly in the right place. and when we're doublehanding, that does limit where we can go. What I can manage to do, sometimes, is to stand outside the lifelines at the shrouds, holding a midships line and/or a bowline, and step off backwards so that I'm using my arms to lower me as close as possible to the dock before I have to let go. I wonder if there are any other tricks, given that I'm a short woman with short legs and not a lot of upper body strength. I can also practice stepping or jumping as a backup to a more reliable person who is holding one of the lines, so that I can get a sense of how it feels even if I'm not quick enough yet. Any other suggestions? Louise I stay on the deck. I always have a boat hook or two. Bob also has one at the stern. Come in to the gas dock first and reconnoiter. Have the skipper practice coming in close enough and slow enough that you don't have to do gymnastics to get off. But my best suggestion is - if you are a transient ask the marina for help. There has only been two times where I have failed to get help. In one case the dock was a fixed concrete dock which was above our deck, and Bob put us right up beside it and I crawled up onto it. In the other case it was a fixed wooden dock about level with our deck, and I managed to lasso a post even though the wind was blowing us off the dock. Then Bob could power into the line to get the stern in. Leaving the dock is more of a challenge in some cases, but we have more time to think about it. grandma Rosalie |
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