Pointin into the wind
 

Its 2005, why do we still have to do this silly pointing into the wind
to get the main up or down or to reef it. Surely someone could come up
with a way to reef or get the main up or down on any point of sail. I
know most sailors are conservative but I am not so if ya got any ideas
let me know.

Aside fornm getting the sail caught in the shrouds, do boats with
rotating masts such as some multihulls have this problem?

Well, on my boat the only reason we have to turn into the wind is because
the sliders on the mast rail bind otherwise. I guess that if you had some
kind of roller system that could take the side load without binding instead
of sliders, the sail would come down or go up easily as long as it wasnt't
binding on your rearmost standing rigging.

That would be nice IMO. I wouldn't be surprised to find that somebody makes
such a system that will replace my stainless steel and plastic sliders, but
I haven't run across it.

Don W.

wrote:
Its 2005, why do we still have to do this silly pointing into the wind
to get the main up or down or to reef it. Surely someone could come up
with a way to reef or get the main up or down on any point of sail. I
know most sailors are conservative but I am not so if ya got any ideas
let me know.

While reading rec.boats.cruising, I noticed Don W
felt compelled to write:

Well, on my boat the only reason we have to turn into the wind is because
the sliders on the mast rail bind otherwise. I guess that if you had some
kind of roller system that could take the side load without binding instead
of sliders, the sail would come down or go up easily as long as it wasnt't
binding on your rearmost standing rigging.

That would be nice IMO. I wouldn't be surprised to find that somebody makes
such a system that will replace my stainless steel and plastic sliders, but
I haven't run across it.

I use full battens terminating into Rutgeson battcars (it is important
to only have cars on the full length battens to be able to do this,
intermediate sliders or cars will bind in the track), and with a
downhaul rigged can reef my 10m Farrier Trimaran off the wind in up to
20kts. Neat for effortlessly dropping the main neatly into the
lazy-jacks at the end of the day, too.

http://www.rutgerson.se/downloads/sa...Fullbatten.pdf

Ian

Instead of having the sail on slides running in a slot on the mast, put
a vertically tensioned cable just aft of the mast, say 2 cm back
running from boom to top of mast. The sliders will be rings around
this cable and will be unable to bind.

Being seriously radical, get rid of the vertical mast and replace it
with a sort of vertical wishbone with a vertical cable running its
length down the middle where the mast would be. You would have
conventional fore and back stays but the spreader and shrouds would be
different. The sail RINGS would run up and down the vertical cable.
Furhtermore, this sail would be more efficient than one with a
conventional mast as the airflow would not be disturbed by the mast.

In Larry W4CSC writes:

wrote in
oups.com:

Its 2005, why do we still have to do this silly pointing into the wind
to get the main up or down or to reef it. Surely someone could come up
with a way to reef or get the main up or down on any point of sail. I
know most sailors are conservative but I am not so if ya got any ideas
let me know.



Look at the pictures I just posted to alt.binaries.pictures.sports.ocean
newsgroup of the Amel Sharki 41 ketch. There's a gearbox at the bottom
of a long stainless rod with the slot cut in it to hold the sail. Plug
a winch into the gearbox drive in the front of the mast opposite the
slot. Wrap the outhaul around a handy winch on the mast and a 12 year
old boy can haul the main in and out in any point of sail, even
backwards!

See how the edges of the slot are nicely rounded into the round interior of
the mast so's not to catch the fabric of the sail draging across
it....Unlike that damned stupid rubber slot in a Beneteau that guarantees
any little fold in the sail will surely SEIZE in the tiny slot.

The only problem we've encountered with the Amel's furling is outhauling
too hard bends the 2" diameter long furling rod into the slot. Once you
get the hang of GENTLY pulling on the outhaul while furling it into the
mast, it's really easy. The roughest part is being thrown about trying to
get TO the mast in heavy seas...(c; Even if the sail is hard against the
shrouds, it furls right up easily every time....nice and neat.

A stormy weather with winds up to 35 - 50 knots, where it is advisary to
reef and the GENTLY pull of anything tied to the mainsail are not a very
common combination. Unless you have an unstayed mast it is difficult to
ignore the friction of the sail against the spreaders and stays whatever
slides and other gimmicks you have.

I do not think that one has to point directly to the wind as in my
experience it is enought to get high enough to ease the pressure of the
sail to the spreaders and stays, to get the main reefed. Then if you do
not use gimmicks like one line reefs, but have separate lines to clew
and tack, you have less friction and you can get your sail to sit
properly even when reefed.

- Lauri Tarkkonen

wrote in message
ups.com...

Being seriously radical, get rid of the vertical mast and
replace it
with a sort of vertical wishbone with a vertical cable running
its
length down the middle where the mast would be. You would
have
conventional fore and back stays but the spreader and shrouds
would be
different. The sail RINGS would run up and down the vertical
cable.
Furhtermore, this sail would be more efficient than one with a
conventional mast as the airflow would not be disturbed by the
mast.

I had a chance to go aboard the 50 ft South Carolina with the
same type of rig, in which Robin Davie sailed the 98-99 Around
Alone. Impressive boat... He did retire from the race due gear
problems, but did complete the circumnavigation approximately 5
hours after the winner.

In article . com,
wrote:

Its 2005, why do we still have to do this silly pointing into the wind
to get the main up or down or to reef it. Surely someone could come up
with a way to reef or get the main up or down on any point of sail. I
know most sailors are conservative but I am not so if ya got any ideas
let me know.

Well, if you're old enough, you'll remember that this wasn't a problem
with many of the old sailing boats. They didn't have mast rails/tracks.
The sail on a gaff-rigged boat was secured to the mast by mast hoops and
could be dropped without having to point into the wind.

ron

In article . com,
wrote:

Its 2005, why do we still have to do this silly pointing into the wind
to get the main up or down or to reef it. Surely someone could come up
with a way to reef or get the main up or down on any point of sail. I
know most sailors are conservative but I am not so if ya got any ideas
let me know.

We can drop our main under most points of sail by centering the boom.
It's easier when the wind is forward of the beam, of course.

There are other rigs not mentioned so far that would make it possible.
One that comes to mind that I've only seen one example of is where the
boom and jib are sort of on a turntable. Turning one (big) screw trims
both sails. The sails can be head to wind as the boat's running
downwind. Seemed like a good idea, but there must be some impracticality
to the rig.

Someone was experimenting with a wing mounted vertically. Supposedly,
the sail could be put into "freewheel" mode and it'd have less drag than
a conventional mast & stays. Again, could rotate 360. Again, sounded
like a great idea as I've seen how much more efficient a double-surface
wing is than a single-skin, but haven't seen it on a boat.

I'll add something I'm surprised no one's tried: a double-surface sail.
Perhaps two sails in tracks on either side of a rotating mast? Only the
leeches would be joined.

--
Jere Lull
Xan-a-Deux ('73 Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD)
Xan's Pages: http://members.dca.net/jerelull/X-Main.html
Our BVI FAQs (290+ pics) http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

Jere Lull wrote:

In article . com,
wrote:


Its 2005, why do we still have to do this silly pointing into the wind
to get the main up or down or to reef it. Surely someone could come up
with a way to reef or get the main up or down on any point of sail. I
know most sailors are conservative but I am not so if ya got any ideas
let me know.


We can drop our main under most points of sail by centering the boom.
It's easier when the wind is forward of the beam, of course.


Not when there's a 30 Kt tailwind, you can't!

Further more, there ain't no remedy for gravity. We are not so
conservative thar such a plan would not be popular, if it were possible.

We are likewise not so stupid that we wouldn't have invented such a
rig, if it were possible. Oh, actually it is, it's called a kite
sail. Pull the centre sheet, and the whole sail looks like an inside
out umbrella, then it gets wet, unless you fly it from the masthead.
Not the best, from a heel's point of view.

Sailing is elemental, and it depends on the mechanics to make it
work. Those mechanics make some things easier than others.
Even a vertical roller furler on the mast will jam in a big
tailwind. The leech, you see, it has a mind of it's own.

Only a square rig can be reefed with equal facility on every point
of sail. What's the big deal? Head Up to reduce sail. Oh, and always
use jibsheets long enough to let the jib flog fully foreward. Then,
you can pull it down with a downhaul on a winch, if you must.



There are other rigs not mentioned so far that would make it possible.
One that comes to mind that I've only seen one example of is where the
boom and jib are sort of on a turntable. Turning one (big) screw trims
both sails. The sails can be head to wind as the boat's running
downwind. Seemed like a good idea, but there must be some impracticality
to the rig.


No room for shrouds, with this one.

Someone was experimenting with a wing mounted vertically. Supposedly,
the sail could be put into "freewheel" mode and it'd have less drag than
a conventional mast & stays. Again, could rotate 360. Again, sounded
like a great idea as I've seen how much more efficient a double-surface
wing is than a single-skin, but haven't seen it on a boat.

I'll add something I'm surprised no one's tried: a double-surface sail.
Perhaps two sails in tracks on either side of a rotating mast? Only the
leeches would be joined.


Whaaaaat?

An inflatable para sail type rig pops into mind, here. (And an
image of Honest John Kerry para sail boarding, which I thought
showed him to be much more macho than the burning Shrub)

Terry K