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[email protected] June 11th 05 04:30 PM

Marina perspective
 
After 20 yrs of sailing, this is the first time I have had my boat in a
large marina so last night when I went to tie her up for Arlene, I
walked the docks just lookin at how other boat owners do things.
The biggest surprise was how little prep there was for Arlene although
all the models have it hitting 200 miles away. I s'pose I am just
paranoid.
Second surprise is how many "trashed out" boats there are in the
marina. These boats have rotted sails hanging in tatters, mold and
fungus all over the decks, varnish peeling in sheets, frayed lines.
The owners do not appear to have visited their boats in several years
but the slips cost $225/month. Weird.
Another observation that is no surprise, smaller boats get used more.
It is obvious from the fouling at the waterlines that boats less than
30' get used far more than the big boats.
I was also surprised to see so many smaller boats kept in slips. There
are many 21-23' sailboats that are obviously trailerable but are kept
in slips. Many look as if they are used regularly.
I never paid any attention to roller furling systems intil I installed
my oversized CDI system on my 28' S2 last year. Roller furling totally
changed my sailing life. So, I took a good look at them (most boats
were bow in so I got a close look). Older RF systems look really
gawdawful. My newer CDI system seems far more robust than older
systems on bigger boats. Probably just a case of technology getting
better with time.
Most boats were hooked to shore power and I am not sure why. In 20 yrs
I have never had shore power and never needed it so am not sure why so
many people take the chance with potentially bad hookups. Somebody
enlighten me here, why so much shore power?


Larry W4CSC June 12th 05 04:28 PM

wrote in
ps.com:

The owners do not appear to have visited their boats in several years
but the slips cost $225/month. Weird.


Every marina in Charleston has these ghost ships in them, too. Someone is
paying $486/month for one of them I know about. His neighbors, afraid it
would break loose into their boats, donated new dock lines to her as the
other ones were just rotted away. You'd think they'd be smarter having all
that money and just turn them over to a broker for disposal. Depreciation
and dockage fees are more than they are worth!

--
Larry

You know you've had a rough night when you wake up and your outlined in
chalk.


Jere Lull June 13th 05 07:47 AM

In article om,
wrote:

The biggest surprise was how little prep there was for Arlene
although all the models have it hitting 200 miles away. I s'pose I
am just paranoid.


No, Momma really IS out to get you (and me). I'm with you.

Second surprise is how many "trashed out" boats there are in the
marina. These boats have rotted sails hanging in tatters, mold and
fungus all over the decks, varnish peeling in sheets, frayed lines.
The owners do not appear to have visited their boats in several years
but the slips cost $225/month. Weird.


Haven't observed that around here, but that's probably because there's a
slip shortage. The trash boats are in the far corners of the yard.

Another observation that is no surprise, smaller boats get used more.
It is obvious from the fouling at the waterlines that boats less than
30' get used far more than the big boats.


No, it's not a surprise. A small boat is less status symbol more
something to enjoy -- regularly.

I was also surprised to see so many smaller boats kept in slips.
There are many 21-23' sailboats that are obviously trailerable but
are kept in slips. Many look as if they are used regularly.


We used to trail the previous boat. Once I got the wife hooked, we
started using the boat more and trailing got old. Once we got a mooring,
we used the boat even more.

Most boats were hooked to shore power and I am not sure why. In 20
yrs I have never had shore power and never needed it so am not sure
why so many people take the chance with potentially bad hookups.
Somebody enlighten me here, why so much shore power?


Too many are clueless. Most are on shore power to keep the batteries up.
A few keep the fridge running.

--
Jere Lull
Xan-a-Deux ('73 Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD)
Xan's Pages:
http://members.dca.net/jerelull/X-Main.html
Our BVI FAQs (290+ pics) http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

Rosalie B. June 13th 05 12:44 PM

Jere Lull wrote:

In article om,
wrote:

The biggest surprise was how little prep there was for Arlene
although all the models have it hitting 200 miles away. I s'pose I
am just paranoid.


No, Momma really IS out to get you (and me). I'm with you.

In some cases, the same reasons that account for the 'trashed out'
boats also account for the lack of prep. Things like that the owner
is disabled and unable to sail anymore but refuses to get rid of the
boat. Maybe has Alzheimer's, or is in a nursing home.

Or maybe even that the person is deployed, or otherwise at present a
long way from the marina and can't get back there to prepare for the
storm. Maybe even has paid someone else to do it and that some just
isn't doing it for whatever reason.

Or that they can't afford to fix the boat up or use it and it would
not be possible to sell it because of environmental issues or lack of
a clear title.

Or that the marina failed to get some kind of legal paper that would
allow them to sell the boat at auction to recover slip fees or
possibly ditto above - boat isn't possible to sell.

These are the same kinds of things that result in abandoned houses on
land (substituting bank for marina), but we don't think about them as
much.

Second surprise is how many "trashed out" boats there are in the
marina. These boats have rotted sails hanging in tatters, mold and
fungus all over the decks, varnish peeling in sheets, frayed lines.
The owners do not appear to have visited their boats in several years
but the slips cost $225/month. Weird.


Haven't observed that around here, but that's probably because there's a
slip shortage. The trash boats are in the far corners of the yard.

Another observation that is no surprise, smaller boats get used more.
It is obvious from the fouling at the waterlines that boats less than
30' get used far more than the big boats.


No, it's not a surprise. A small boat is less status symbol more
something to enjoy -- regularly.

And it is easier to get out and sail in a small boat without so many
systems to manage. Also it is more possible to live aboard a larger
boat, and when you are living on a boat, it becomes somewhat of an
effort to rig for sailing.

I was also surprised to see so many smaller boats kept in slips.
There are many 21-23' sailboats that are obviously trailerable but
are kept in slips. Many look as if they are used regularly.


We used to trail the previous boat. Once I got the wife hooked, we
started using the boat more and trailing got old. Once we got a mooring,
we used the boat even more.

Most boats were hooked to shore power and I am not sure why. In 20
yrs I have never had shore power and never needed it so am not sure
why so many people take the chance with potentially bad hookups.
Somebody enlighten me here, why so much shore power?


Too many are clueless. Most are on shore power to keep the batteries up.
A few keep the fridge running.


Down in the south it is probably A/C rather than the fridge or
batteries.

grandma Rosalie

Nigel June 13th 05 05:56 PM

Another observation that is no surprise, smaller boats get used more.
It is obvious from the fouling at the waterlines that boats less than
30' get used far more than the big boats.


No, it's not a surprise. A small boat is less status symbol more
something to enjoy -- regularly.



:-) reminds me of an old saying

-------------
someone going 2 mph slower than you is an idiot....
someone going 2 mph faster is a manic
-------------

I guess your boats less than 30ft... am I right ?



[email protected] June 13th 05 07:17 PM

I wanted to get some idea of boat use as a function of length but it
really isnt clear as there are some extreme outlying data points so the
best I can do is less than 30' and more than. There is no cut-off but
maybe a graay area. Yes, my boat is only 28' and I think it may have
so many systems that time-killers that I need to eliminate some. I
suspect that it isnt the size of the boat as much as the complexity and
size allows more complexity.


Nigel June 13th 05 07:34 PM


wrote in message
ups.com...
I wanted to get some idea of boat use as a function of length but it
really isnt clear as there are some extreme outlying data points so the
best I can do is less than 30' and more than. There is no cut-off but
maybe a graay area. Yes, my boat is only 28' and I think it may have
so many systems that time-killers that I need to eliminate some. I
suspect that it isnt the size of the boat as much as the complexity and
size allows more complexity.


I'm only teasing....don't take in personally :-)



Matt O'Toole June 13th 05 07:57 PM

wrote:

After 20 yrs of sailing, this is the first time I have had my boat in
a large marina so last night when I went to tie her up for Arlene, I
walked the docks just lookin at how other boat owners do things.
The biggest surprise was how little prep there was for Arlene although
all the models have it hitting 200 miles away. I s'pose I am just
paranoid.


Nope. Other folks aren't paranoid enough, or maybe they're hoping for an
insurance coup -- for example:

Second surprise is how many "trashed out" boats there are in the
marina. These boats have rotted sails hanging in tatters, mold and
fungus all over the decks, varnish peeling in sheets, frayed lines.
The owners do not appear to have visited their boats in several years
but the slips cost $225/month. Weird.


Every marina has 'em! I don't understand it either. I guess some people have
enough money it doesn't matter, and they never get around to taking care of the
issue.

Sometimes where waiting lists are long, these derelict boats are just
placeholders for the dream boat that will be parked there someday. Buy the boat
and the slip comes with it, but it's a 7 year wait otherwise. A rowboat on a
mooring in the right neighborhood can sell for $50k!

Another observation that is no surprise, smaller boats get used more.
It is obvious from the fouling at the waterlines that boats less than
30' get used far more than the big boats.
I was also surprised to see so many smaller boats kept in slips.
There are many 21-23' sailboats that are obviously trailerable but
are kept in slips. Many look as if they are used regularly.


Well, if they are used regularly it saves hauling and launching all the time.
Not that the task is so difficult or time consuming, but many people find it
nerve-racking. I bet more divorces start on launch ramps than anywhere else.
Just go down there on a Sunday afternoon and watch!

I never paid any attention to roller furling systems intil I installed
my oversized CDI system on my 28' S2 last year. Roller furling
totally changed my sailing life. So, I took a good look at them
(most boats were bow in so I got a close look). Older RF systems
look really gawdawful. My newer CDI system seems far more robust
than older systems on bigger boats. Probably just a case of
technology getting better with time.


I've noticed this too. Older systems were designed with tradtion and appearance
in mind -- nobody wanted a big furler on their bow, so the drums were way
undersized compared to now.

Most boats were hooked to shore power and I am not sure why. In 20
yrs I have never had shore power and never needed it so am not sure
why so many people take the chance with potentially bad hookups.
Somebody enlighten me here, why so much shore power?


To keep the batteries up, and the bilge pump running! Gotta keep those science
experiments going in the fridge too.

Matt O.



Gordon June 14th 05 01:57 AM

And the smaller fish taste better.
G

"Nigel" wrote in message
...
Another observation that is no surprise, smaller boats get used more.
It is obvious from the fouling at the waterlines that boats less than
30' get used far more than the big boats.


No, it's not a surprise. A small boat is less status symbol more
something to enjoy -- regularly.



:-) reminds me of an old saying

-------------
someone going 2 mph slower than you is an idiot....
someone going 2 mph faster is a manic
-------------

I guess your boats less than 30ft... am I right ?





Texan June 17th 05 01:09 AM

On Mon, 13 Jun 2005 19:34:13 +0100, "Nigel"
wrote:


wrote in message
oups.com...
I wanted to get some idea of boat use as a function of length but it
really isnt clear as there are some extreme outlying data points so the
best I can do is less than 30' and more than. There is no cut-off but
maybe a graay area. Yes, my boat is only 28' and I think it may have
so many systems that time-killers that I need to eliminate some. I
suspect that it isnt the size of the boat as much as the complexity and
size allows more complexity.


Having lived aboard and worked on boats for years this is what I see:
Those who can afford the big boats tend to be so busy making the money
needed that they don't have the time to use the big boats.
I don't know how many times I have been called on a weekend by a big
boat owner angry that his engines wouldn't start after being neglected
for 6 months.
" I paid $200K for this boat, the d** thing should at least start.".
I've heard simular words so many times.
Typicaly the smal boat owner is sacrificeing for his boat. The boat,
The slip, The insurance, etc. If he's not useing the boat, he tends to
sell it or at least put it in the driveway.
Yes I know these are generalizations. But it's just been my
observations over the years.



Denis Marier June 17th 05 01:39 AM

Beside the bigger boat social climber the other status symbol is the
inflatable dinghies.
At some Yacht clubs you can see what we call long term parkers. Owners that
insist on having dinghy docks. They park their inflatable and RIB's with a
10 - 15 HP outboards at the dinghy docks for most of the summer without
using them while their big boats are at the slips.
The owners that moored their boats and use a rigid rowing dinghy to get to
and from their boats have no space to tie they rowing dinghies. They have
to pull their rowing dinghies on the beach.
One interesting observation is that club employees and members give priority
to inflatable. If you own an Avon your status goes up. When they get
filled with rain water they run to empty the inflatable. It would be
interesting to learn what is the situation at other clubs and marinas.

"Texan" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 13 Jun 2005 19:34:13 +0100, "Nigel"
wrote:


wrote in message
oups.com...
I wanted to get some idea of boat use as a function of length but it
really isnt clear as there are some extreme outlying data points so the
best I can do is less than 30' and more than. There is no cut-off but
maybe a graay area. Yes, my boat is only 28' and I think it may have
so many systems that time-killers that I need to eliminate some. I
suspect that it isnt the size of the boat as much as the complexity and
size allows more complexity.


Having lived aboard and worked on boats for years this is what I see:
Those who can afford the big boats tend to be so busy making the money
needed that they don't have the time to use the big boats.
I don't know how many times I have been called on a weekend by a big
boat owner angry that his engines wouldn't start after being neglected
for 6 months.
" I paid $200K for this boat, the d** thing should at least start.".
I've heard simular words so many times.
Typicaly the smal boat owner is sacrificeing for his boat. The boat,
The slip, The insurance, etc. If he's not useing the boat, he tends to
sell it or at least put it in the driveway.
Yes I know these are generalizations. But it's just been my
observations over the years.





Rosalie B. June 17th 05 02:22 AM

"Denis Marier" wrote:

Beside the bigger boat social climber the other status symbol is the
inflatable dinghies.
At some Yacht clubs you can see what we call long term parkers. Owners that
insist on having dinghy docks. They park their inflatable and RIB's with a
10 - 15 HP outboards at the dinghy docks for most of the summer without
using them while their big boats are at the slips.
The owners that moored their boats and use a rigid rowing dinghy to get to
and from their boats have no space to tie they rowing dinghies. They have
to pull their rowing dinghies on the beach.
One interesting observation is that club employees and members give priority
to inflatable. If you own an Avon your status goes up. When they get
filled with rain water they run to empty the inflatable. It would be


Nothing like this where we are. Of course we aren't at a yacht club.

grandma Rosalie

Denis Marier June 17th 05 02:29 AM

I like the idea. However, I can hardly see one putting his inflatable with
a 10 HP outboard and gas tank on a rack.
At our club 90 % of the dinghies are inflatable. As they do not row well
98% of the owners have outboard engines. In either case the membership fee
is the same.

"Dave" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 17 Jun 2005 00:39:09 GMT, "Denis Marier"


said:

One interesting observation is that club employees and members give

priority
to inflatable. If you own an Avon your status goes up. When they get
filled with rain water they run to empty the inflatable. It would be
interesting to learn what is the situation at other clubs and marinas.


At our club you pull your dinghy and put it on a rack when you leave.




Larry W4CSC June 17th 05 04:39 AM

Texan wrote in
:

Having lived aboard and worked on boats for years this is what I see:
Those who can afford the big boats tend to be so busy making the money
needed that they don't have the time to use the big boats.
I don't know how many times I have been called on a weekend by a big
boat owner angry that his engines wouldn't start after being neglected
for 6 months.


This is an excellent point and any boat owner in this state reading this
would do well to befriend someone like me, who lives near the marina, to
keep the boat in first class condition in his absence. We work for passage
and peanuts. I take care of 4 of them...3 sail and a trawler at the
moment.

Those on the other side, like me who cannot afford a $100,000 yacht, need
to feed the targets of this Texan's posts, in a very appropriate manner.
You need to befriend that guy cursing his boat and help him keep it up.
Not everyone on the dock needs to be a pseudo-captain paying through the
nose, you know. Once cultivated, you find you have many friends with
really nice yachts like Lionheart, Cap'n Geoffrey's Amel Sharki ketch. For
your spare time, some simple labor and just being a nice guy....you get to
sail/power the boat of your dreams, locally and to vacation ports at nearly
no expense to you. These affluent boaters are used to "paying" for
everything they have. It does take them a little while to stop trying to
shove money into your hand for putting in that new bilge pump or simply
watching out for their interest nosing around while the engine guys are
working on the engine. I will, occasionally, allow them to give me a
little money to defray my fuel costs traveling around. I'll always let
them buy me a meal. When asked what I want for all this work, my answer is
very simple..."Just take me with you." Being ALWAYS short-handed because
their big wallets let them buy a bigger boat than they have crew to handle,
you'll be most welcome...especially if you socialize as well as you clean
seawater strainers.

Once aboard, it's politically correct and most beneficial, if, after you've
gone out sailing all day with the owner and his guests, you hang around
after the guests leave and clean the boat! "You go on with them and have a
nice dinner.", I'll say to my captain, "I'm going to tidy up here a bit and
make all the lines and cables fast before I leave." Instead of him having
to stay behind to tend to his boat....he's walking with his guests down the
dock and I'm taking care of the boat I wish I could afford and love to
play with.

Tomorrow, I'm going to wash Lionheart's towel pile left on the deck from
his grandson and friends using Lionheart for a condo during Spoleto. Geez,
while he's off playing on megayacht Mystic between Azores and Gibraltar,
tonight, someone left me this brand new 155 genoa on the deck!...(c; After
I got his boat the way I like to have it, I stayed until dusk sipping
Boddington's Ale listening to his XM satellite radio with the other boaters
on the dock....Life is good!

Lionheart's 4-108 cranked right up, tonight, and I ran it for 20 minutes
until it warmed up good. If it hadn't, I would have fixed it while he's
off working or playing. It's my motor, too!

I don't need to own a yacht. I have 4 of them!

--
Larry

Vito June 17th 05 02:00 PM

"Denis Marier" wrote
Beside the bigger boat social climber the other status symbol is the
inflatable dinghies......... It would be
interesting to learn what is the situation at other clubs and marinas.


I don't know any social climbers. We have a large group who love to sail and
party. They'll take off for an overnight or two, anchor off a secluded
beach and dinghy in to party ashore. Or they may sail to a nearby town,
anchor out and dinghy in to a popular resturant. They usually sail 2 or 3
weekends a month, some more some less, and spend weekend nights aboard (Most
work during the week). Fun folks but sadly I'm too old to keep up with
them.

Others are planning (hoping) to go full-time. They can't afford to retire
for years but meanwhile they are paying off a bigger bluewater boat they
can't really use right now. They too spend alot of weekends aboard but do
not go out often. Many (most?) won't make it but I'll not slam them for
having the dream.

A few who have gone full time stop by occasionally to favor us with tales of
long passages and far places, but never stay long.

Then there are a few who have health, personal or financial problems or have
simply lost interest. Their boats come in all sizes from 18 to 45 ft. We
don't see them much. There's a CAL 30 next to me that hasn't seen its owner
for over a year but then I was absent most of last winter fighting cancer
and won't get out til fall so I'm not about to criticize.

Last marina we stayed was associated with a new boat dealer. We saw a lot of
folks who'd awoke one morning to find their mortgage and kid tuitions paid
off right in the middle of their peak earning years. Most weren't rich but
had new-found discretionary income and could easily afford to get a $200K
home equity loan and buy a new yacht rather than P it away in taxes. They
tended to sail like hell for a month or so then taper off and loose
interest, eventually selling the boat. I wouldnt knock them either, they
assure a steady supply of lower priced near-new boats for us poor folk g.

Last but hardly least the marina here on base is home to a bunch of racers
who are out every weekend and many week nights. The marina can only
accomodate smaller 22' or less boats so they don't sail far but they sure
sail often. I'm too old to keep up with them either. They prolly think
everybody else is a social climber. After all, how much boat can you race
on a creek?



Matt O'Toole June 21st 05 05:17 PM

Denis Marier wrote:

Beside the bigger boat social climber the other status symbol is the
inflatable dinghies.


Yeah, no kidding. To me a dinghy was always a grubby old Sabot you bought at a
garage sale, or the police auction! I get a kick out of the 10 foot RIBs with a
center console. There's 10-20 grand worth of tender all over the place these
days.

I guess that's what yachting's all about though. It's one place in life where
people can have exactly what they want, so they don't mind paying for it.

Matt O.



Glenn Ashmore June 21st 05 05:39 PM

Yeah, no kidding. To me a dinghy was always a grubby old Sabot you bought
at a
garage sale, or the police auction! I get a kick out of the 10 foot RIBs
with a
center console. There's 10-20 grand worth of tender all over the place
these
days.


Those are not dinghys. Now, THIS is a dinghy!
http://www.wally.com/jumpch.asp

And this modest little thing is a tender. http://www.wally.com/jumpch.asp

--
Glenn Ashmore

I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com
Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com




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