Which is safer, slip or mooring?
 

During a hurricane, which would you consider to be the safer place for
your boat, a slip or on a mooring?
I'd think that theoretically a mooring should be safer since there is
nothing for your boat to hit.
Would it make sense for some marinas to have emergency moorings to be
used only when a hurricane approaches?

Harry, this is a thought experiment and I am sure you realize that all
other conditions are equal and the moorings and docks are infinitely
strong etc.

wrote in message
oups.com...
Harry, this is a thought experiment and I am sure you realize that all
other conditions are equal and the moorings and docks are infinitely
strong etc.


The slip is closer to the beer.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

During a hurricane nothing is safe. No two hurricanes are the same. Even
houses on land will be subject to wind damages and more. Some giant break
water may offer some protection, again this is subject to the hurricane
intensity, the surges and tides.
Under normal storm conditions at about 60 Knots of wind a mooring could be
safer?
Conversely I have seen boats in slips withstanding 60 Knots of wind all
night.
Moorings do drag under heavy surge and high tides. Your mooring is only as
strong as the two bolts that hold your cleats. At our club we do not have a
breakwater. All members are require to have a mooring. When the wind gets
over (40 - 45 Km) 25 knots, the people in the slips are asked to move their
boat on their mooring. Our harbor master keeps a list of all the moorings
and inspection dates. In salt water chain and shackles need to be replaced
more often then in fresh water.

"Larry W4CSC" wrote in message
...
wrote in
oups.com:

During a hurricane, which would you consider to be the safer place for
your boat, a slip or on a mooring?
I'd think that theoretically a mooring should be safer since there is
nothing for your boat to hit.
Would it make sense for some marinas to have emergency moorings to be
used only when a hurricane approaches?



Here, judge for yourself. Over on alt.binaries.pictures.sports.ocean I
have posted pictures I saved someone else took after a hurricane passed
over Grenada last year....

My answer to your question is NEITHER! Your boat will simply be
destroyed,
one way or another.

Some idiots elected to drive their sailboats up creeks and rivers in
Charleston during Hugo in '89. Unable to cope with 200 mph winds, 30'
storm surge tides under 30' swells and wind whipped waves, they ended up
aground many miles from any water after the storm was over. Two such
sailors were ham radio operators I know. We eventually got help for them
to rescue them off their boat far inland in the SC swamps.

Abandon the boat and take your insurance policies with you. You're going
to need them.

My question was not about staying on your boat during a hurricane,
after all, natural selection is wonderful thing. However, after tying
up my boat I simply check my insurance policy and go home.
Nor was my question about such a large storm surge that nothing can
survive. I am simply curious about a reasonable surge, say 10'.

My experience is based on the surges produced in the Bay of Fundy and
Kennebassis river.
Using one night spent watching Gloria gusting at 60 knots with about a 10
feet surge my boat got hit by the boat in front. The owner did not believed
it. His boat was still attached to the mooring block. That night about
10 - 15% of the mooring blocks were moved by the surge.
wrote in message
oups.com...
My question was not about staying on your boat during a hurricane,
after all, natural selection is wonderful thing. However, after tying
up my boat I simply check my insurance policy and go home.
Nor was my question about such a large storm surge that nothing can
survive. I am simply curious about a reasonable surge, say 10'.

Assume well maintained screw in type moorings and well maintained
docks. Assume sufficient length of mooring pendants for surge so as
not to hit other boats.

An additional question:

Is it cheaper to bring docks up to high surge standards or to install
good storm moorings?

Is it cheaper to bring docks up to high surge standards or to install
good storm moorings?
The answer is if you live in a coastal area both the docks and mooring have
to be designed to high surge standards. While at mooring the vacated docks
may break loose and damage boats.
Inland the design may be less rigid
Our docking system is made of 8 feet wide X 16 feet long sections,
I got the corner brackets made of 1/2" thick cold rolled steel. Holes were
not punched but drilled. The 90 degree bending was done on a progressive
press. All steel brackets were checked for bending cracks and faults.
Our mooring system consist of 1" OD + heavy duty chain at the bottom and the
top section is made with 1/2 - 3/4 OD chain. Attached to the top is a 5/8 -
3/4 OD three strand rope. Some boat have two pennant others prefer having
only one.
As for the exact scope of chain and pennant including the weight and shape
of the mooring block you can refer to the Power Squadron standard or the
Army Corps of Engineer. Other have better systems and may tell us about it.



wrote in message
oups.com...
Assume well maintained screw in type moorings and well maintained
docks. Assume sufficient length of mooring pendants for surge so as
not to hit other boats.

An additional question:

Is it cheaper to bring docks up to high surge standards or to install
good storm moorings?

When isabelle remnants came up the Chesapeake, we had a bit of a storm
surge. Those at the marinas survived fairly well, but if we had
another foot of surge, ever single boat would have been destroyed as
the floating piers would have come off the pilings (they went to the
top of the caps on the pilings as was).

Those on the moorings would have survived a strong surge better, but
had the wind been stonger, they too would have been very vulnerable.

In a hurricaine, you don't want your boat to be around other boats so
both aren't great. Most marina's make the point moot by forcing you to
evacuate you boat anyway. Should I have to choose one, I'd pick a
marina, then I could have the insurance agent drive to the wreckage
fairly easily ;)

I have heard of marinas that insist on vacating during storms and I
think that is reprehensible. During such events all available
hurricane holes are filled. Around here, there is only a single
sometimes working travel lift 35 miles away and they do not seem to be
able to haul more than 4 boats/day. I suppose that if I lived in a
place with working lifts I would want her hauled if it really looked
like high probability of a hit.

Some old timers have their boats out of the water in time to avoid a big
storm or hurricane.
One of my mentor from Portland Maine when the forecast was for a heavy storm
he would have his boat out of the water. After the storm he would have it
back in the water. No body can predict the behavior of floating docks close
to moored boats during a surge. I have seen many piles popping out loose
during big blows and high waves. One year most of the members from our club
went ,in heavy fog, to a local safe heaven to weather the storm. When we
returned to our club after a few days we found the harbor devastated with
boats on the beach. Surprisingly our docks were found in good shape. Since
then I was never criticized for spending the extra money on heavy hardware
for the docks
Now the trend is to use lighter hardware to build bloating docks Only time
will tell if the later approach has a good pay back.


"boatgeek" wrote in message
ups.com...
When isabelle remnants came up the Chesapeake, we had a bit of a storm
surge. Those at the marinas survived fairly well, but if we had
another foot of surge, ever single boat would have been destroyed as
the floating piers would have come off the pilings (they went to the
top of the caps on the pilings as was).

Those on the moorings would have survived a strong surge better, but
had the wind been stonger, they too would have been very vulnerable.

In a hurricaine, you don't want your boat to be around other boats so
both aren't great. Most marina's make the point moot by forcing you to
evacuate you boat anyway. Should I have to choose one, I'd pick a
marina, then I could have the insurance agent drive to the wreckage
fairly easily ;)

I wish we had a travel lift at our club.
Here every boat has its own cradle and the mast is removed before haul out.
Some boat even have their cradle mounted on two and three axles trailers.
Using heavy boom truck and crane we have haul out (without the mast) 4 - 6
boat an hour.
When the working group is well in tune and under pressure we have haul out
as much as one boat every 6 - 7 minutes. Having your boat on land during a
big blow is not a guarantee that you will avoid damages. One year a tree
felt on my house but not on my boat.
wrote in message
oups.com...
I have heard of marinas that insist on vacating during storms and I
think that is reprehensible. During such events all available
hurricane holes are filled. Around here, there is only a single
sometimes working travel lift 35 miles away and they do not seem to be
able to haul more than 4 boats/day. I suppose that if I lived in a
place with working lifts I would want her hauled if it really looked
like high probability of a hit.

In article . com,
"boatgeek" wrote:

When isabelle remnants came up the Chesapeake, we had a bit of a storm
surge. Those at the marinas survived fairly well, but if we had
another foot of surge, ever single boat would have been destroyed as
the floating piers would have come off the pilings (they went to the
top of the caps on the pilings as was).

Those on the moorings would have survived a strong surge better, but
had the wind been stonger, they too would have been very vulnerable.

In a hurricaine, you don't want your boat to be around other boats so
both aren't great. Most marina's make the point moot by forcing you to
evacuate you boat anyway. Should I have to choose one, I'd pick a
marina, then I could have the insurance agent drive to the wreckage
fairly easily ;)


This was just about what I was going to say, same storm, probably the
other side of the Bay. Our marina was rebuilt to a foot higher than the
last 100-year storm. The surge went a foot above that. The worst damage
was a bent stanchion and a radar dome destroyed by a roof. Had it gone a
foot higher, they would have had to cut a few of the boats free.

A couple of marinas not so well built are still not operating.

At Kent Narrows, boats hauled for the storm --usually the best idea--
floated off their stands.

One funny story: A floating dock with a bunch of boats in Baltimore's
Inner Harbor floated over the pilings to freedom. A couple of
liveaboards motored for some hours to keep water under everyone's keel.

Had the storm not tracked 100 miles west of the orginal prediction, I'm
not sure that boating on the Chesapeake would have survived.

I'm usually most comfortable when the boat's on a mooring that I have
inspected and trust, but when Momma's feeling nasty, there's no such
thing as safe. I think I'd like to be in a good mangrove or canal with a
lot of LONG lines tied to a number of strong anchor points.

--
Jere Lull
Xan-a-Deux ('73 Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD)
Xan's Pages: http://members.dca.net/jerelull/X-Main.html
Our BVI FAQs (290+ pics) http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

This morning I was watching (CNN) the storm Arlene hitting Cuba. All you
can do is your very best, good mooring, good breakwater and well designed
docks. After that you have to put your hand in the hand of god and hope for
the best.
As for the insurance, the last time my boat got damaged, the broker started
to invoke the act of god to avoid paying. After a long battle I finally got
paid. So better check the fine print on your insurance policy. You may not
be covered for wind over 60 knots unless its well specified?? Or it may say
no coverage's are provided for any act of god?

"Jere Lull" wrote in message
...
In article . com,
"boatgeek" wrote:

When isabelle remnants came up the Chesapeake, we had a bit of a storm
surge. Those at the marinas survived fairly well, but if we had
another foot of surge, ever single boat would have been destroyed as
the floating piers would have come off the pilings (they went to the
top of the caps on the pilings as was).

Those on the moorings would have survived a strong surge better, but
had the wind been stonger, they too would have been very vulnerable.

In a hurricaine, you don't want your boat to be around other boats so
both aren't great. Most marina's make the point moot by forcing you to
evacuate you boat anyway. Should I have to choose one, I'd pick a
marina, then I could have the insurance agent drive to the wreckage
fairly easily ;)


This was just about what I was going to say, same storm, probably the
other side of the Bay. Our marina was rebuilt to a foot higher than the
last 100-year storm. The surge went a foot above that. The worst damage
was a bent stanchion and a radar dome destroyed by a roof. Had it gone a
foot higher, they would have had to cut a few of the boats free.

A couple of marinas not so well built are still not operating.

At Kent Narrows, boats hauled for the storm --usually the best idea--
floated off their stands.

One funny story: A floating dock with a bunch of boats in Baltimore's
Inner Harbor floated over the pilings to freedom. A couple of
liveaboards motored for some hours to keep water under everyone's keel.

Had the storm not tracked 100 miles west of the orginal prediction, I'm
not sure that boating on the Chesapeake would have survived.

I'm usually most comfortable when the boat's on a mooring that I have
inspected and trust, but when Momma's feeling nasty, there's no such
thing as safe. I think I'd like to be in a good mangrove or canal with a
lot of LONG lines tied to a number of strong anchor points.

--
Jere Lull
Xan-a-Deux ('73 Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD)
Xan's Pages: http://members.dca.net/jerelull/X-Main.html
Our BVI FAQs (290+ pics) http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

Jere Lull wrote in news:jerelull-
:

Had the storm not tracked 100 miles west of the orginal prediction, I'm
not sure that boating on the Chesapeake would have survived.


The floating docks topped the pilings long before Hugo got to Charleston.
Lots of the boats were floated across Lockwood Drive from the city and
Ashley marinas over into the parking lot across the street.

--
Larry

You know you've had a rough night when you wake up and your outlined in
chalk.