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Oil Viscosity
Can I use Mobil 1 5W-50 SuperSync oil (100% synthyhetic) in Mercruiser GM
V-8 350CID (5.7 L) in 15 year old marine engine? The manual specifies detergent 20W-40 or 20W-50 oils. What effect could have the 5W-50 viscosity range (5W vis 20W)? The vessel is not used often, is stored on hard stand, the winter temperatures are hardly below 10 degrees C and the engine is run at least once every month for about 10-15 minutes. Appeciate your thoughts Mark Zak |
Mark,
I love synthetic oil, and have been using it for years, but one of the problems with it has to do with switching over to it on high hour, or milage, engines. Synthetic oil has the tendency to strip away gunk deposits within the engine. You will note that the oil looks like hell when you change it for the first few times, that's the gunk being removed. Now on a fresh engine it's not a problem, but on an older engine it often results in the engine leaking oil around the seals and gaskets, you start using oil. And this does happen, I've seen it. The other issue, and it's not as big, marine oil has more rust inhibiters in it because of the wet enviornment marine engines operate in. So you can get some rust inside the block if you use synthetic. But I will say that the last marine engine that I tore down had been run with synthetic oil since after break in, and it had no signs of rust inside, so I'm skeptical of the rust argument. The 5 weight oil may be too low, you could get some knocking at start up if you don't have lots of oil pressure (a good rule of thumb is a 350 needs a minimum of 10 pounds of pressure for every 1000 RPM's), not a good thing. I would go with a minimum of a 20 weight oil. John |
"Capt John" wrote in message
ups.com... Mark, I love synthetic oil, and have been using it for years, but one of the problems with it has to do with switching over to it on high hour, or milage, engines. Synthetic oil has the tendency to strip away gunk deposits within the engine. You will note that the oil looks like hell when you change it for the first few times, that's the gunk being removed. Now on a fresh engine it's not a problem, but on an older engine it often results in the engine leaking oil around the seals and gaskets, you start using oil. And this does happen, I've seen it. Actually, it's much more likely that the older engine already has leaking seals or gaskets before you start using the synth oil. In a sense, it would be a good thing that it would show you the leak. In any case, the leaks are very minor. I would much rather know there's a problem than have it masked by something. The other issue, and it's not as big, marine oil has more rust inhibiters in it because of the wet enviornment marine engines operate in. So you can get some rust inside the block if you use synthetic. But I will say that the last marine engine that I tore down had been run with synthetic oil since after break in, and it had no signs of rust inside, so I'm skeptical of the rust argument. The 5 weight oil may be too low, you could get some knocking at start up if you don't have lots of oil pressure (a good rule of thumb is a 350 needs a minimum of 10 pounds of pressure for every 1000 RPM's), not a good thing. I would go with a minimum of a 20 weight oil. I have no data about this, so I'll take it as accurate. |
"Mark Zak" wrote in
: Can I use Mobil 1 5W-50 SuperSync oil (100% synthyhetic) in Mercruiser GM V-8 350CID (5.7 L) in 15 year old marine engine? Wow! At $3-5 a quart, the ol' GM 350 oughta damn near last forever!....yeah, right. The manual specifies detergent 20W-40 or 20W-50 oils. What effect could have the 5W-50 viscosity range (5W vis 20W)? Too thin when it's cold? 5 weight oil is like a sewing machine oil. Wonder how well it keeps those cold rings away from those fragile, cheap GM cylinder walls?? 20 weight is more than thin enough. We're being conditioned so "they" can make $$$AU The vessel is not used often, is stored on hard stand, the winter temperatures are hardly below 10 degrees C and the engine is run at least once every month for about 10-15 minutes. Hmm...I'd dump it if I didn't use it before it becomes worthless from the awful boat depreciation. Oil pales in comparison to what its book value drops. I'm unfamiliar with Australian oil ratings as I'm on the other side of the planet. Here, what concerns me is our oil (both dino and home made) has been quietly devalued because it cannot pass the new SAE tests for 2-stroke and 4-stroke diesels, once these were separated tests. So, you look on the fancy can with the checkered flags and pictures of NASCAR race drivers and in the SAE rating circle it says SJ or SK or whatever S rating the gas engine manufacturers are using now....but NOT D-2 or D-4 for diesel use. What have they left out? Diesel oils all have detergent in them because of all the nasty carbon blowby that turns them black. Have they quietly stopped adding detergent to keep the engines (gas and diesels) clean? Who made that stupid decision....car manufacturers trying to wear out the cars? I'm not fascinated with home made oils. I used Mobil 1 synthetic oil in my Honda EU3000i electronic power plant a couple of times when it was new. Synthetic oil was rated for air-cooled engines, not water cooled cars. It was EXPENSIVE. I didn't care, it doesn't use much. When I sucked the synthetic oil out and looked at it after 100 hours, I was scared I'd ruined the Honda. It looked like it was BURNED!...it was BROWN! That ended that. I started using the same Rotella-T (Shell) or Chevron's Velo 400 4-stroke- rated DIESEL oils that American Truckers driving like hell down the interstate with amazingly heavy loads on their engines run for millions of miles between overhauls. What professional trucking companies use to maximize their engine life speaks VOLUMES more as to what is the right oil to use in any engine.....than the marketing department's motive of any oil company trying to squeeze $5/quart out of some home made oil in the checkered flag can. The genset seems ok at a thousand hours and Velo or Rotella DON'T come out BROWN!...(c; |
On Fri, 27 May 2005 14:40:34 GMT, "Mark Zak"
wrote: Can I use Mobil 1 5W-50 SuperSync oil (100% synthyhetic) in Mercruiser GM V-8 350CID (5.7 L) in 15 year old marine engine? The manual specifies detergent 20W-40 or 20W-50 oils. What effect could have the 5W-50 viscosity range (5W vis 20W)? The vessel is not used often, is stored on hard stand, the winter temperatures are hardly below 10 degrees C and the engine is run at least once every month for about 10-15 minutes. Appeciate your thoughts Mark Zak Synthetic can be searching on older engines, so watch the oil filter for a while, and look out for case leaks Brian Whatcott Altus, OK |
Gentlemen,
I appreciate and thank you for your responses, most informative and I have learned a lot. Once again, many thanks and regards Mark Zak "Mark Zak" wrote in message ... Can I use Mobil 1 5W-50 SuperSync oil (100% synthyhetic) in Mercruiser GM V-8 350CID (5.7 L) in 15 year old marine engine? The manual specifies detergent 20W-40 or 20W-50 oils. What effect could have the 5W-50 viscosity range (5W vis 20W)? The vessel is not used often, is stored on hard stand, the winter temperatures are hardly below 10 degrees C and the engine is run at least once every month for about 10-15 minutes. Appeciate your thoughts Mark Zak |
On Sun, 29 May 2005 23:42:50 GMT, Gene Kearns
wrote: First of all, any "viscosity" with a "W" suffix is *not* a viscosity, but an (arbitrary) measure of how easy it is to "shear" the oil at low temperatures./// As I recall, the W prefix is a viscosity determination at a set [low] temperature ... Brian W |
Gene Kearns wrote in
: http://www.performanceoiltechnology....toildoiuse.htm Getting oil information from Amsoil is something like getting prescription drug information from a snake oil salesman...... Too funny..... Everybody should ask a Merck salesman what brand of drugs to buy, right? Here's another wonderful product line from Amsoil at the SAME location.... http://organic-fertilizer-tech.com/gardening-guide.htm Now, just for fun, let's see where their address leads us to, there by the OIL REFINERY and FERTILIZER FACTORY... http://www.mapquest.com/maps/map.adp...Newport+Ct+&ci ty=Wolverine+Lake&state=MI&zipcode=48390 Hmm....Looks like Mapquest musta made a mistake! This map looks like it's in some waterfront community on Lake Wolverine! You reckon the nice people of Michigan are gonna let them put an OIL REFINERY and FERTILIZER PLANT on their nice lakefront? Hell, lookit dat...there's a canal goin' right up to the plant's back yard! I tried to go direct to the html from http://gosynthetic.com/ to: http://www.amsoil.com/company.htm to take a look at the amsoil refinery/chemical factory/fertilizer plant....but that link goes nowhere in errors. To get to it, you go to: http://www.gosynthetic.com/ then click on "About Amsoil, Inc." in the upper left corner, another one of Performance Oil Technologies, LLC shell companies. When you finally get to look at their "about Amsoil" webpage, look closely at the building......Building??!!...Where the hell is the huge chemical factories necessary to MAKE fertilizers and synthetic oils? This "plant" is located in Superior, Wisconsin....not where Amsoil says its office is in Lake Wolverine, Michigan, a bedroom community of Detroit. Wonder why?? Hmm...let's look down at the pictures "About Amsoil"..... There's an old picture of a Lt Col in the Air Force that has nothing to do with the oil business. Big Al was a fighter pilot for 25 years...nothing to do with oil refining, organic chemistry or the like. This guy invented synthetic oil???? Bull****! He's a FIGHTER PILOT! Man, look at the neat OFFICE BUILDING! There's no big cracking towers, massive chemical maze of pipes, monsterous power house, yards full of machinery. How can they make OIL and FERTILIZER in this OFFICE BUILDING?! Under the office building picture, I see some guy in a smart-looking, impressively-clean set of coveralls dispensing oil from that little tube into impressively-clean Amsoil drums on an impressively-clean pallet riding down an impressively-clean set of rollers. Aha! That little pipe goes out into the impressively-clean, massive OIL AND FERTILIZER REFINERY AND CHEMICAL PLANT out in the office building parking lot! Now I see! Under that, there's a little chemical lab of some sort, again, impressively-clean with smart white labcoats that don't have a single oil spot on them. Look at those counters. Are they NEW? Ever try to get motor oil off anything and make it look completely new like that, ever again? By its very nature, motor oil (and probably fertilizer chemicals which EAT a Lawn-O-Green truck in a year) sticks like glue to anything it touches. Boy, those guys in the lab coats must be AWFUL CAREFUL not to get motor oil on ANYTHING in that picture! Well, if I were gonna show off my oil refinery, I'd sure let 'em see plenty of pictures of massive chemical plumbing to show off my technology, wouldn't you? This place looks like a.....er, ah......well, ah......BOTTLING PLANT sucking liquid product (oil or fertilizer, I suppose) out of a tank truck and putting it into bottles and cans and drums with checkered flags and fancy labels on them....like the picture displaying all of them above. WHERE'S THE BIG CHEMICAL FACTORY?? IS there one or are we bottling up Chevron oil into our bottles like Yamalube TC-W3 is? Oh, these guys are real oil viscosity experts...... I wanna be a DEALER! |
Why not post this in alt.amsoil. I am sure you will get a response.
"Larry W4CSC" wrote in message ... Gene Kearns wrote in : http://www.performanceoiltechnology....toildoiuse.htm Getting oil information from Amsoil is something like getting prescription drug information from a snake oil salesman...... Too funny..... Everybody should ask a Merck salesman what brand of drugs to buy, right? Here's another wonderful product line from Amsoil at the SAME location.... http://organic-fertilizer-tech.com/gardening-guide.htm Now, just for fun, let's see where their address leads us to, there by the OIL REFINERY and FERTILIZER FACTORY... http://www.mapquest.com/maps/map.adp...Newport+Ct+&ci ty=Wolverine+Lake&state=MI&zipcode=48390 Hmm....Looks like Mapquest musta made a mistake! This map looks like it's in some waterfront community on Lake Wolverine! You reckon the nice people of Michigan are gonna let them put an OIL REFINERY and FERTILIZER PLANT on their nice lakefront? Hell, lookit dat...there's a canal goin' right up to the plant's back yard! I tried to go direct to the html from http://gosynthetic.com/ to: http://www.amsoil.com/company.htm to take a look at the amsoil refinery/chemical factory/fertilizer plant....but that link goes nowhere in errors. To get to it, you go to: http://www.gosynthetic.com/ then click on "About Amsoil, Inc." in the upper left corner, another one of Performance Oil Technologies, LLC shell companies. When you finally get to look at their "about Amsoil" webpage, look closely at the building......Building??!!...Where the hell is the huge chemical factories necessary to MAKE fertilizers and synthetic oils? This "plant" is located in Superior, Wisconsin....not where Amsoil says its office is in Lake Wolverine, Michigan, a bedroom community of Detroit. Wonder why?? Hmm...let's look down at the pictures "About Amsoil"..... There's an old picture of a Lt Col in the Air Force that has nothing to do with the oil business. Big Al was a fighter pilot for 25 years...nothing to do with oil refining, organic chemistry or the like. This guy invented synthetic oil???? Bull****! He's a FIGHTER PILOT! Man, look at the neat OFFICE BUILDING! There's no big cracking towers, massive chemical maze of pipes, monsterous power house, yards full of machinery. How can they make OIL and FERTILIZER in this OFFICE BUILDING?! Under the office building picture, I see some guy in a smart-looking, impressively-clean set of coveralls dispensing oil from that little tube into impressively-clean Amsoil drums on an impressively-clean pallet riding down an impressively-clean set of rollers. Aha! That little pipe goes out into the impressively-clean, massive OIL AND FERTILIZER REFINERY AND CHEMICAL PLANT out in the office building parking lot! Now I see! Under that, there's a little chemical lab of some sort, again, impressively-clean with smart white labcoats that don't have a single oil spot on them. Look at those counters. Are they NEW? Ever try to get motor oil off anything and make it look completely new like that, ever again? By its very nature, motor oil (and probably fertilizer chemicals which EAT a Lawn-O-Green truck in a year) sticks like glue to anything it touches. Boy, those guys in the lab coats must be AWFUL CAREFUL not to get motor oil on ANYTHING in that picture! Well, if I were gonna show off my oil refinery, I'd sure let 'em see plenty of pictures of massive chemical plumbing to show off my technology, wouldn't you? This place looks like a.....er, ah......well, ah......BOTTLING PLANT sucking liquid product (oil or fertilizer, I suppose) out of a tank truck and putting it into bottles and cans and drums with checkered flags and fancy labels on them....like the picture displaying all of them above. WHERE'S THE BIG CHEMICAL FACTORY?? IS there one or are we bottling up Chevron oil into our bottles like Yamalube TC-W3 is? Oh, these guys are real oil viscosity experts...... I wanna be a DEALER! |
On Sun, 29 May 2005 23:19:23 -0400, Larry W4CSC
wrote: Gene Kearns wrote in : http://www.performanceoiltechnology....toildoiuse.htm Getting oil information from Amsoil is something like getting prescription drug information from a snake oil salesman...... Too funny..... Everybody should ask a Merck salesman what brand of drugs to buy, right? Here's another wonderful product line from Amsoil at the SAME location.... http://organic-fertilizer-tech.com/gardening-guide.htm But wait, there's more! Visit http://www.oilsandlube.com/ajsig.htm to see they also have line of products to alleviate any "male problems" you may have... Honestly, how can anybody take Amsoil seriously? |
Larry W4CSC wrote: I'm unfamiliar with Australian oil ratings as I'm on the other side of the planet. Here, what concerns me is our oil (both dino and home made) has been quietly devalued because it cannot pass the new SAE tests for 2-stroke and 4-stroke diesels, once these were separated tests. So, you look on the fancy can with the checkered flags and pictures of NASCAR race drivers and in the SAE rating circle it says SJ or SK or whatever S rating the gas engine manufacturers are using now....but NOT D-2 or D-4 for diesel use. What have they left out? Diesel oils all have detergent in them because of all the nasty carbon blowby that turns them black. Have they quietly stopped adding detergent to keep the engines (gas and diesels) clean? Who made that stupid decision....car manufacturers trying to wear out the cars? I'm not fascinated with home made oils. I used Mobil 1 synthetic oil in my Honda EU3000i electronic power plant a couple of times when it was new. Synthetic oil was rated for air-cooled engines, not water cooled cars. It was EXPENSIVE. I didn't care, it doesn't use much. When I sucked the synthetic oil out and looked at it after 100 hours, I was scared I'd ruined the Honda. It looked like it was BURNED!...it was BROWN! That ended that. I started using the same Rotella-T (Shell) or Chevron's Velo 400 4-stroke- rated DIESEL oils that American Truckers driving like hell down the interstate with amazingly heavy loads on their engines run for millions of miles between overhauls. What professional trucking companies use to maximize their engine life speaks VOLUMES more as to what is the right oil to use in any engine.....than the marketing department's motive of any oil company trying to squeeze $5/quart out of some home made oil in the checkered flag can. The genset seems ok at a thousand hours and Velo or Rotella DON'T come out BROWN!...(c; Larry, Thats an interesting insight. I grew up on a farm where we ran diesel tractors, and we used to buy diesel rated oil from the local CooP (pronounced Co-OP for you city slickers ;) by the 50 gal drum. Later, I owned a Cummins powered diesel truck, and always used Rotella because thats what the owners manual recommended. I've always run regular 10W-30 motor oil in my gas powered vehicles, and have generally had good luck with it, but I'll bet that you are right about the diesel rated oils being higher quality and having better detergents. Diesels generally run compressions of 24:1 where the average auto today is more like 8:1. There is a lot more pressure on the rod and main bearings in a diesel because of the higher compression. I'll bet that there are some mechanical engineers lurking about who could probably explain all about the SAE oil ratings in great detail. Don W. |
Don W wrote in
: There is a lot more pressure on the rod and main bearings in a diesel because of the higher compression. The new C-2 and C-4 ratings for 2 and 4 stroke diesels have to do with what type of detergent is put in the oil to keep the carbon blowby from destroying it. The detergents in the old gas oils couldn't pass the tests, so SAE forced them to remove the old CD or CE, etc., ratings from the super cans with the checkered flags on them. Car oil has an S rating only if you take a look at it, now. NEVER use these oils in ANY diesel engine..... Reminds me of Wolf's Head....(c; |
Gene Kearns wrote in
: Ok, Larry, give me a break... I'm not raggin' on you, Gene. But, I don't think the retired fighter pilot or this "Dave Mann" mystery man who's background is NOT shown on the webpages is any kind of "oil engineer". If you want to speak with a REAL oil engineer, a simple phone call to any of the major oil companies will get you one. I've found Texaco and Exxon are excellent companies to call and very helpful on their webpages. As you may have heard, they've been in the oil business for a hundred years. They seem to have gotten pretty good at it, too!...(c; Amsoil.....Amway.....coincidence?? |
Just a few points, the Chevy 350 is probably one of the best engines
ever built. These engines last many years in marine applications. Their are very few other gas engines that you can say the same thing about. They were easy to get parts for, and even heavy duty parts were cheap, they were simple to build or repair. They weren't perfect, but they were very reliable, and took a beating. Diesel oils are made to handle sulfur which is a main concern when it comes to blow by, they are also formulated to keep contaminates in suspension, so it comes out with the oil when you change it. That dirt in the oil is not dirt left in the engine. When you switched your little Honda over to synthetic you saw what you should expect to see, dirt in suspension being removed from the engine. Synthetic oil holds contaminates in suspension better than standard oil, after a few changes the engine starts to clean itself out, and the oil looks better when you drain it. By the way, diesel manufacturers are testing their engines with synthetic oils. I'm sure they'll work just fine, the problem will be cost, with synthetic their probably looking at about $50 to $100 worth of synthetic vs $15 to $30 or so of standard oil. When you talk about overhauls on trucks, they don't run the engines until they die, and overhaul them. They run them to some point, pull the engine, and overhaul it, or install another one that has been overhauled and overhaul the one they just pulled. Their in the business of hauling freight on time, waiting for a breakdown in the middle of nowhere doesn't work for them. Gen sets and long haul engines last a long time because their running most of the time at constant speeds and loads, it's the start and stop kind of operation that kills the engine. And Rotella, Velo and Delo all come out as black as night from a diesel, even on new engines. |
first of all get rid of the Mobil 1 it is crap. Go and get
some ams/oil, best on the market and use 10w/40 "Brian Whatcott" wrote in message ... On Sun, 29 May 2005 23:42:50 GMT, Gene Kearns wrote: First of all, any "viscosity" with a "W" suffix is *not* a viscosity, but an (arbitrary) measure of how easy it is to "shear" the oil at low temperatures./// As I recall, the W prefix is a viscosity determination at a set [low] temperature ... Brian W |
first of all get rid of the Mobil 1 it is crap. Go and get
some ams/oil, best on the market and use 10w/40 "Brian Whatcott" wrote in message ... On Sun, 29 May 2005 23:42:50 GMT, Gene Kearns wrote: First of all, any "viscosity" with a "W" suffix is *not* a viscosity, but an (arbitrary) measure of how easy it is to "shear" the oil at low temperatures./// As I recall, the W prefix is a viscosity determination at a set [low] temperature ... Brian W |
Delvac1 is not crap. I use it in 3 of my engines. (it is the same as
Mobil1). I put it in my Ford Lehman's with 3000 hours in them and it is slowing the amount of oil consumption, smoke and oil sheen on the water. I also noticed the temps went 5 degrees lower. I would certainly say that it is a result of lower friction. "Boots" wrote in message ... first of all get rid of the Mobil 1 it is crap. Go and get some ams/oil, best on the market and use 10w/40 "Brian Whatcott" wrote in message ... On Sun, 29 May 2005 23:42:50 GMT, Gene Kearns wrote: First of all, any "viscosity" with a "W" suffix is *not* a viscosity, but an (arbitrary) measure of how easy it is to "shear" the oil at low temperatures./// As I recall, the W prefix is a viscosity determination at a set [low] temperature ... Brian W |
"Boots" wrote in news:42b8c2d8$1_1@spool9-
west.superfeed.net: some ams/oil, best on the market and use 10w/40 You talking about Amsoil, the oil canned by some former Air Force pilot in a little plant in the northern midwest? He also cans fertilizer he doesn't make, too. Call 'em and ask them where the big oil refinery or huge chemical plant that makes all this synthetic is located. You want to visit it and see how Amsoil is made. Notice on the webpage it shows some guy with a hose pouring oil into drums manually? Amsoil....Amway? Amsoil....Amway? Coincidence? -- Larry You know you've had a rough night when you wake up and your outlined in chalk. |
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