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Wet suit as foul weather gear
Does anyone have an opinion on the practicality of using a wet suit as
foul weather gear? Being a diver I have a couple of suits, they provide bouyancy and help with thermal protection. I'm pretty comfortable in them for long periods of time, and if no one is around to complain about the odor its OK. Admittedly they do not provide the head and neck support of a PFD but I'm thinking that they may be a viable, or perhaps more practical, alternative to a PFD. All things are a compromise, right? And of course there is that zipper in the front issue. Many thanks, Howard |
Howard Peer wrote:
Does anyone have an opinion on the practicality of using a wet suit as foul weather gear? sure I sail on Lake Huron, Georgian Bay and the North Channel. The water is cold in mid-summer. If it's rocking and raining, I wear a wetsuit. It keeps me functional in adverse conditions. My $0.02 |
On Wed, 11 May 2005 21:09:49 -0400, Howard Peer
wrote: Does anyone have an opinion on the practicality of using a wet suit as foul weather gear? Being a diver I have a couple of suits, they provide bouyancy and help with thermal protection. I'm pretty comfortable in them for long periods of time, and if no one is around to complain about the odor its OK. Admittedly they do not provide the head and neck support of a PFD but I'm thinking that they may be a viable, or perhaps more practical, alternative to a PFD. All things are a compromise, right? And of course there is that zipper in the front issue. Back in the 1960s when my wife and I were self-teaching to sail on a 5-0-5, we did just that, but we still used Flotherchoc vests over the wetsuits. We did a lot of swimming the first season. :-) Rodney Myrvaagnes J 36 Gjo/a Kansas--working to become a science-free zone |
Howard Peer wrote:
Does anyone have an opinion on the practicality of using a wet suit as foul weather gear? Being a diver I have a couple of suits, they provide bouyancy and help with thermal protection. I'm pretty comfortable in them for long periods of time, and if no one is around to complain about the odor its OK. Admittedly they do not provide the head and neck support of a PFD but I'm thinking that they may be a viable, or perhaps more practical, alternative to a PFD. All things are a compromise, right? A wetsuit might keep you warm but it has nowhere near the bouyancy of a PFD. Stephen |
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Howard Peer wrote:
Does anyone have an opinion on the practicality of using a wet suit as foul weather gear? A wet suit will not keep you dry when you are on deck. Usually what you want foul weather gear for is to keep dry. Staying wet for long periods of time (hours) isn't usually good. Being a diver I have a couple of suits, they provide bouyancy and help with thermal protection. I'm pretty comfortable in them for long periods of time, and if no one is around to complain about the odor its OK. Admittedly they do not provide the head and neck support of a PFD but I'm thinking that they may be a viable, or perhaps more practical, alternative to a PFD. All things are a compromise, right? A wet suit does NOT substitute for a PFD. And of course there is that zipper in the front issue. Many thanks, Howard If I were in a very wet boat where I thought I might go overboard and had no way to prevent it (like jacklines) then a wet suit under a PFD might work for me. That's what wind surfers, and surfboarders and kite surfers wear after all. grandma Rosalie |
Gogarty wrote:
In article , r says... Howard Peer wrote: Does anyone have an opinion on the practicality of using a wet suit as foul weather gear? Being a diver I have a couple of suits, they provide bouyancy and help with thermal protection. I'm pretty comfortable in them for long periods of time, and if no one is around to complain about the odor its OK. Admittedly they do not provide the head and neck support of a PFD but I'm thinking that they may be a viable, or perhaps more practical, alternative to a PFD. All things are a compromise, right? A wetsuit might keep you warm but it has nowhere near the bouyancy of a PFD. How much bouyancy does foul weather gear have? I don't count the PFD as foul weather gear. Maybe it was a typo, but he said: I'm thinking that they may be a viable, or perhaps more practical, alternative to a PFD. All things are a compromise, right? Stephen |
prodigal1 wrote:
Howard Peer wrote: Does anyone have an opinion on the practicality of using a wet suit as foul weather gear? sure I sail on Lake Huron, Georgian Bay and the North Channel. The water is cold in mid-summer. If it's rocking and raining, I wear a wetsuit. It keeps me functional in adverse conditions. My $0.02 I was planning to buy one if I had kept my CL14 daysailer. Probably won't bother now that I have a bigger mini-cruising sailboat. |
As a USN EOD Diver, I had opportunities to use a "Submarine Deck Suit".
These things were VERY warm, fairly comfortable, as buoyant as a wet suit and provided great protection from rain and spray. The suit is a day glow orange outer nylon shell (with pockets), neoprene core throughout, with a nylon liner. Not a PFD and won't win any points with the yachty crowd, but warm, dry, and highly visible. Big problem I see with a lot of high end foul weather gear is the colors. If you go over the side, you want to be as visible as possible; so colors like blue, white, yellow, green, and even red are for the clubhouse, not bad weather on a small vessel. My 2 cents. MMC "Dave" wrote in message ... On Wed, 11 May 2005 20:32:22 -0700, Stephen Trapani said: A wetsuit might keep you warm but it has nowhere near the bouyancy of a PFD. I haven't been in a wetsuit since my days as a Navy diver 35 years ago, but I recall the wetsuit's providing plenty of buoyancy. That's why you had to wear a weight belt. The difference is that the buoyancy is spread out over your body, instead of being concentrated in the upper part, so there isn't the same righting moment keeping your head above water and feet down. Could be significant if you're unconscious. |
Dave wrote:
On Wed, 11 May 2005 20:32:22 -0700, Stephen Trapani said: A wetsuit might keep you warm but it has nowhere near the bouyancy of a PFD. I haven't been in a wetsuit since my days as a Navy diver 35 years ago, but I recall the wetsuit's providing plenty of buoyancy. That's why you had to wear a weight belt. The difference is that the buoyancy is spread out over your body, instead of being concentrated in the upper part, so there isn't the same righting moment keeping your head above water and feet down. Could be significant if you're unconscious. I strongly suggest the original poster test his theory by trying to float for an hour or so in his wet suit, *without fins* which is something he's probably never done before. Upon completion of this task put on a PFD and note the difference. I contend this will end all thoughts of substituting his PFD with a wetsuit. Stephen |
May I recommend a Kokotat dry suit. They are breathable and comfortable
(especially with the removable neck ring). It doesn't replace a pfd but if I had to choose between the two I would take the dry suit. Probably the best combo would be the dry suit with an inflatable pfd. Wetsuits are hot, restrictive, and stinky. I used to kayak with wetsuits but the very best way to go is a breathable dry suit. LG |
Don White wrote:
I was planning to buy one if I had kept my CL14 daysailer. Probably won't bother now that I have a bigger mini-cruising sailboat. I started using mine a few years after we got our 28 footer. We were going Killarney-Toby in squally conditions where you could see the cells coming from a long way off. Instead of getting the gore-tex on and off all day, and soaking the interior of the boat, I put the wetsuit on. Very confortable ride. There are times when the drops come in sideways, even on our mini-cruiser. |
Stephen Trapani wrote:
I strongly suggest the original poster test his theory by trying to float for an hour or so in his wet suit, *without fins* which is something he's probably never done before. Upon completion of this task put on a PFD and note the difference. I contend this will end all thoughts of substituting his PFD with a wetsuit. I don't think you've given any thought to the different thicknesses of wetsuits. If you're thinking about the fashion-skins worn by blasphemyjet-skiers/blasphemy then you're right -little to no bouyancy- but anything actually made for diving will keep you at the surface comfortably for _long_ periods of time. |
prodigal1 wrote:
Stephen Trapani wrote: I strongly suggest the original poster test his theory by trying to float for an hour or so in his wet suit, *without fins* which is something he's probably never done before. Upon completion of this task put on a PFD and note the difference. I contend this will end all thoughts of substituting his PFD with a wetsuit. I don't think you've given any thought to the different thicknesses of wetsuits. If you're thinking about the fashion-skins worn by blasphemyjet-skiers/blasphemy then you're right -little to no bouyancy- but anything actually made for diving will keep you at the surface comfortably for _long_ periods of time. I am thinking of thick wetsuits. Mine is a 5/4 and I can tell you without a doubt that without a floating device or fins it's not much easier staying afloat with a wetsuit than it is without anything at all. I swam competitively for seven years, played waterpolo, and surfed for years with and without the wetsuit in heavy conditions, losing my board on occasion. Divers always use swim fins which are a huge help to staying afloat. Try it without the fins. Stephen |
Stephen Trapani wrote:
prodigal1 wrote: Stephen Trapani wrote: I strongly suggest the original poster test his theory by trying to float for an hour or so in his wet suit, *without fins* which is something he's probably never done before. Upon completion of this task put on a PFD and note the difference. I contend this will end all thoughts of substituting his PFD with a wetsuit. I don't think you've given any thought to the different thicknesses of wetsuits. If you're thinking about the fashion-skins worn by blasphemyjet-skiers/blasphemy then you're right -little to no bouyancy- but anything actually made for diving will keep you at the surface comfortably for _long_ periods of time. I am thinking of thick wetsuits. Mine is a 5/4 and I can tell you without a doubt that without a floating device or fins it's not much easier staying afloat with a wetsuit than it is without anything at all. I swam competitively for seven years, played waterpolo, and surfed for years with and without the wetsuit in heavy conditions, losing my board on occasion. Divers always use swim fins which are a huge help to staying afloat. Try it without the fins. How about without the fins AND without the weight belt. I can easily stay afloat even without the wetsuit or a PFD and without paddling or finning or anything unless I wear a weight belt - a weight belt makes it harder. I suspect that you have a typically low body fat and high muscular development of a fit man, and I have the high body fat that hides whatever muscles I have as an unfit old woman, and that will make a difference in how much floating we do. Having a wet suit WILL help you survive in cold water if you get washed overboard whether you wear a PFD or not -- provided of course that you are not knocked unconscious by the boom so that you can't keep your head above water. IMO one of those auto-inflate PFDs would be the boating equivalent of a BCD. I would not want to use a wet suit of whatever thickness as a substitute for a PFD even though I can float easily. However, my preference would be to stay on the boat. Whether a wet suit will work as foul weather gear (as in the title) - well maybe. In our case the wetsuits are so much harder to put on than the foul weather gear that it wouldn't be an attractive option. Also it would be difficult for me to use the head with it on. Because we don't actually wear foul weather gear much. Mostly we have a pretty dry boat with a complete cockpit enclosure. So if we had to wear foul weather gear to go out on the deck (and it would be pretty rare unless we were possibly anchoring or something), then it could be left to dry in the cockpit (I usually hang my coat on the wheel) and we wouldn't have to drag it through the saloon or the aft cabin. So I don't see that there is any advantage to it - at least for us. grandma Rosalie |
Speaking strictly in terms of flotation, I gotta go with Granny Rosie
on this one; a full-thickness wetsuit provides tons of flotation. It is not, however, a PFD. It is also, IMO, not really good as foul weather gear, except for short periods, like maybe Wednesday night round-the-buoy racing. Even then, it's less comfortable and more restrictive than some nice pile clothing under Gore-Tex outerwear. I also agree that staying on the boat is best. Harness and tether are my friends. |
Frank wrote:
Speaking strictly in terms of flotation, I gotta go with Granny Rosie on this one; a full-thickness wetsuit provides tons of flotation. It is not, however, a PFD. Agreed. Thick wetsuits tend to make one float legs-up. ... It is also, IMO, not really good as foul weather gear, except for short periods, like maybe Wednesday night round-the-buoy racing. Even then, it's less comfortable and more restrictive than some nice pile clothing under Gore-Tex outerwear. Well, the wetsuit makes great foul weather gear in it's own right. The problem is getting it on & off, and it's habitability for more than a few hours. Plus, it presumes one will be wet, which is less desirable than staying dry. Fresh Breezes- Doug King |
"DSK" wrote in message
.. . Frank wrote: Speaking strictly in terms of flotation, I gotta go with Granny Rosie on this one; a full-thickness wetsuit provides tons of flotation. It is not, however, a PFD. Agreed. Thick wetsuits tend to make one float legs-up. That's true if it's a one-piece certainly or even if you have the farm-john style with the jacket and separate bottoms, but if you wear the jacket portion alone, you would float upper-body up... not necessarily face up, however. And, you're legs would get cold, but you probably won't notice. ... It is also, IMO, not really good as foul weather gear, except for short periods, like maybe Wednesday night round-the-buoy racing. Even then, it's less comfortable and more restrictive than some nice pile clothing under Gore-Tex outerwear. Well, the wetsuit makes great foul weather gear in it's own right. The problem is getting it on & off, and it's habitability for more than a few hours. Plus, it presumes one will be wet, which is less desirable than staying dry. Chafing can become an issue... talc helps with that and donning, but not removing. When I used to dive a lot, we must have looked pretty comical trying to help each other remove wetsuits. |
JG wrote: "DSK" wrote in message .. . Frank wrote: Speaking strictly in terms of flotation, I gotta go with Granny Rosie on this one; a full-thickness wetsuit provides tons of flotation. It is not, however, a PFD. Agreed. Thick wetsuits tend to make one float legs-up. That's true if it's a one-piece certainly or even if you have the farm-john style with the jacket and separate bottoms, but if you wear the jacket portion alone, you would float upper-body up... not necessarily face up, however. And, you're legs would get cold, but you probably won't notice. ... It is also, IMO, not really good as foul weather gear, except for short periods, like maybe Wednesday night round-the-buoy racing. Even then, it's less comfortable and more restrictive than some nice pile clothing under Gore-Tex outerwear. Well, the wetsuit makes great foul weather gear in it's own right. The problem is getting it on & off, and it's habitability for more than a few hours. Plus, it presumes one will be wet, which is less desirable than staying dry. Chafing can become an issue... talc helps with that and donning, but not removing. When I used to dive a lot, we must have looked pretty comical trying to help each other remove wetsuits. I used to use talc; but a decade or so ago I bought one of those one-piece nylon skinsuits. If you wear that under the wetsuit, it really helps getting it on and off. None of this addresses the issue of urinating easily. A drysuit with a crotch zipper would work then; but in that case you may as well buy/wear pile and Gore-tex. |
Frank wrote:
I used to use talc; but a decade or so ago I bought one of those one-piece nylon skinsuits. If you wear that under the wetsuit, it really helps getting it on and off. I have some silk longies that I wear to help with chafe. Not perfect though. None of this addresses the issue of urinating easily. A drysuit with a crotch zipper would work then; but in that case you may as well buy/wear pile and Gore-tex. This (plus the chafe & the itch) was what I meant when I said "habitability" in earlier post. Wetsuits are great if you're splashing around in cold water, but they're awful if worn longer than a few hours at a time. Plus, after you've worked up a good sweat in one, you shouldn't be allowed to take it off in the cabin (or anywhere other than a shower at home). I think this is how the word "skank" was invented. DSK |
"DSK" wrote in message
.. . Frank wrote: I used to use talc; but a decade or so ago I bought one of those one-piece nylon skinsuits. If you wear that under the wetsuit, it really helps getting it on and off. I have some silk longies that I wear to help with chafe. Not perfect though. I guess I've been out of it for a while. I guess that means I should sell my old double-hose regulator and the old-style BC with the stem and no auto. g None of this addresses the issue of urinating easily. A drysuit with a crotch zipper would work then; but in that case you may as well buy/wear pile and Gore-tex. This (plus the chafe & the itch) was what I meant when I said "habitability" in earlier post. Wetsuits are great if you're splashing around in cold water, but they're awful if worn longer than a few hours at a time. Plus, after you've worked up a good sweat in one, you shouldn't be allowed to take it off in the cabin (or anywhere other than a shower at home). I think this is how the word "skank" was invented. I think you're wrong about the origin, but I understand the thought. g |
"Frank" wrote:
JG wrote: "DSK" wrote in message .. . Frank wrote: Speaking strictly in terms of flotation, I gotta go with Granny Rosie on this one; a full-thickness wetsuit provides tons of flotation. It is not, however, a PFD. Agreed. Thick wetsuits tend to make one float legs-up. That's true if it's a one-piece certainly or even if you have the farm-john style with the jacket and separate bottoms, but if you wear the jacket portion alone, you would float upper-body up... not necessarily face up, however. And, you're legs would get cold, but you probably won't notice. ... It is also, IMO, not really good as foul weather gear, except for short periods, like maybe Wednesday night round-the-buoy racing. Even then, it's less comfortable and more restrictive than some nice pile clothing under Gore-Tex outerwear. Well, the wetsuit makes great foul weather gear in it's own right. The problem is getting it on & off, and it's habitability for more than a few hours. Plus, it presumes one will be wet, which is less desirable than staying dry. Chafing can become an issue... talc helps with that and donning, but not removing. When I used to dive a lot, we must have looked pretty comical trying to help each other remove wetsuits. I used to use talc; but a decade or so ago I bought one of those one-piece nylon skinsuits. If you wear that under the wetsuit, it really helps getting it on and off. None of this addresses the issue of urinating easily. A drysuit with a crotch zipper would work then; but in that case you may as well buy/wear pile and Gore-tex. I think more people have wet suits than have dry suits. And depending on the zipper, it might not help me much. grandma Rosalie |
I started diving in '62. I reluctantly spent the money to upgrade my
20-year-old equipment in the mid-80s. Now, all *that* stuff is 20 years old. Damn! And for Grandma Rosalie, you know the old joke... The difference between male and female divers is that men can only warm up one leg. Frank |
We are currently cruising in Australia and were in New Zealand late last year.
Both there and in Tasmania we observed that dinghy sailors routinely wore wet suits and dry suits when racing. They also wore PFD's. On a rough Tasman Sea crossing, winds around 50 knots sustained for several days and temperature around 40 degrees; it was very cold. I decided to try a wetsuit rather than wet weather gear to see if it was warmer and easier to move around in. My wet suit is a metric 8mm, which I think is about 5/16 inches thick, and initially found that it was great. It had really good antiskid properties and it was much less bulky than Mustos and much easier to move around and work the boat. But after a while it just became far too hot and sweaty. It became really uncomfortable, even though the wind chill must have been close to freezing. I have not tried a dry suit but this might be a better option. However, if I ever have to abandon ship then I would don my wetsuit plus a PFD. Hypothermia kills more people than drowning and I would try to maximise our survival odds. Graeme sv Leonidas |
Graeme Cook wrote in
: However, if I ever have to abandon ship then I would don my wetsuit plus a PFD. http://www.mustangsurvival.com/produ...p?id=420&mc=85 Why do offshore boaters always "make do" with home-made gear when their own lives and the lives of the families they love are at risk? Why do they think THEY can survive with some crappy wetsuit or other it-will-be-enough, when the guy in the fishing vessel in the SAME WATERS knows the only thing that will save his ass is a proper survival suit made to keep him warm, safe and afloat for days, if necessary? Why do boaters think they're gonna be saved in minutes, not days or weeks? Hope I have time to get into mine before going over the side..... This suit has a harness to attach the CG helo cable to. No sense endangering the rescue diver unless you are unconcious. Survival isn't about the other corners you've all cut in the boat. There are no second chances..... How much are the kids and wife worth? Is a few hundred for their suit too much? How absurd..... |
On Mon, 16 May 2005 09:27:21 -0400, Larry W4CSC
wrote: Why do offshore boaters always "make do" with home-made gear when their own lives and the lives of the families they love are at risk? I tend to agree with this sentiment. However, you can only carry and pay for just so much gear. This forces those of us who carry our homes on our backs like a turtle to contemplate tough decisions. A survival suit or 10 more gallons of water? or a watermaker? or more engine spares? or more books? or a sewing machine? The odds that you are going to wind up in the water waiting for rescue are pretty slim compared to the probability that you will wish you had one of these other items. You have to weigh the odds and make your choices. I certainly have no issue with someone who chooses to prepare for all possible life-threatening emergencies with the best gear before loading the canned goods, but I don't believe it's as cut and dried as all that. If it was, we'd all drive Volvos. And most of us would never leave port. :-) __________________________________________________ __________ Glen "Wiley" Wilson usenet1 SPAMNIX at world wide wiley dot com To reply, lose the capitals and do the obvious. Take a look at cpRepeater, my NMEA data integrator, repeater, and logger at http://www.worldwidewiley.com/ |
"Larry W4CSC" wrote in message ... Graeme Cook wrote in : However, if I ever have to abandon ship then I would don my wetsuit plus a PFD. http://www.mustangsurvival.com/produ...p?id=420&mc=85 Why do offshore boaters always "make do" with home-made gear when their own lives and the lives of the families they love are at risk? Why do they think THEY can survive with some crappy wetsuit or other it-will-be-enough, when the guy in the fishing vessel in the SAME WATERS knows the only thing that will save his ass is a proper survival suit made to keep him warm, safe and afloat for days, if necessary? Why do boaters think they're gonna be saved in minutes, not days or weeks? Hope I have time to get into mine before going over the side..... This suit has a harness to attach the CG helo cable to. No sense endangering the rescue diver unless you are unconcious. Survival isn't about the other corners you've all cut in the boat. There are no second chances..... How much are the kids and wife worth? Is a few hundred for their suit too much? How absurd..... How long will your Mustang keep you warm in 50 deg F water (typical for PNW summer water)? I don't see data on the web site mentioned. We have an inventor here who recently came up with a new suit designed to keep you warm for at least 24 hours. To test it he went in the water at noon and bobbed around for 25 hours (tethered to a dock). The water was 49 deg. In 25 hours his body temp had dropped like 0.2 deg! A reporter went in the water at the same time wearing a gumby suit and was incoherent in less than 1.5 hr. He showed the flexibility of the suit by swinging a golf club and driving around town while wearing it. It works by exhaling into a tube leading to a bladder in the back which provides extra bouyancy and HEAT. The only drawback experienced was when falling asleep, the breathing rate slows down affecting the heat source! Gordon |
Comment inserted below:
"Gordon" wrote in message ... "Larry W4CSC" wrote in message ... Graeme Cook wrote in : However, if I ever have to abandon ship then I would don my wetsuit plus a PFD. http://www.mustangsurvival.com/produ...p?id=420&mc=85 Why do offshore boaters always "make do" with home-made gear when their own lives and the lives of the families they love are at risk? Why do they think THEY can survive with some crappy wetsuit or other it-will-be-enough, when the guy in the fishing vessel in the SAME WATERS knows the only thing that will save his ass is a proper survival suit made to keep him warm, safe and afloat for days, if necessary? Why do boaters think they're gonna be saved in minutes, not days or weeks? Hope I have time to get into mine before going over the side..... This suit has a harness to attach the CG helo cable to. No sense endangering the rescue diver unless you are unconcious. Survival isn't about the other corners you've all cut in the boat. There are no second chances..... How much are the kids and wife worth? Is a few hundred for their suit too much? How absurd..... How long will your Mustang keep you warm in 50 deg F water (typical for PNW summer water)? I don't see data on the web site mentioned. You didn't look very hard, did you? It's there on the wesite, you have to click on the link for the Product Resources, Manuals & Publications. Here is a quote from the manual: "When tested ..., the OC8001 and OC8001 HR exceeded 0.96 Immersed Clo in stirred water. This level of immersion protection provides approximately ten hours of survival time in 32º F water temperatures." There is further information including a graph from which you can extrapolate that in 50 deg F water your survival time would be many days, long enough that food and water would become the problems. There are further explanations including the information that, as this is a dry suit, you can wear layers of clothing inside the suit, enhancing further the protection provided by the survival suit. -- Ken Heaton & Anne Tobin Cape Breton Island, Canada kenheaton AT ess wye dee DOT eastlink DOT ca |
"Ken Heaton" wrote in
news:bo8je.5626$tt5.4135@edtnps90: There is further information including a graph from which you can extrapolate that in 50 deg F water your survival time would be many days, long enough that food and water would become the problems. There are further explanations including the information that, as this is a dry suit, you can wear layers of clothing inside the suit, enhancing further the protection provided by the survival suit. -- I want the wetsuit proponents to try something that will be important in their FLOATING wetsuits, too....... Jump in the water in your wetsuit and get wet..... Now, crawl out on the dock (simulates getting out of the water into the life raft....You DO have a life raft, right?). Sit on the dock in the WET wetsuit and freeze to death from the evaporation inside and outside the draining wetsuit for a while and see how long you can last. It only keeps you warm if you're UNDERWATER where you can maintain that tiny layer of interior water between you and the neoprene....try it. In the Mustang, or other proper survival suit, in the life raft, you'll starve at 50F before freezing to death.... Thanks for the other poster pointing out the 10 hours in 32F water rating... |
I'm not really a 'proponent' of using a wetsuit as a survival suit, but
would suggest that the wetsuit is far far better than nothing Larry W4CSC wrote: I want the wetsuit proponents to try something that will be important in their FLOATING wetsuits, too....... Jump in the water in your wetsuit and get wet..... Now, crawl out on the dock (simulates getting out of the water into the life raft....You DO have a life raft, right?). Sit on the dock in the WET wetsuit and freeze to death from the evaporation inside and outside the draining wetsuit Uh huh. And you think this is a problem? You think wet suits have to be immersed to be warm? Try it yourself, that is not the case. Been there, done that, wiped sweat off brow ;) DSK |
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