Bilge pump switches
 

Does anyone have any experience to report with the new solid state
bilge pump water sensors such as the Johnson Ultima? Sounds like a
good, no jamb, no cog, idea to me.

The Johnson switch appears to have only two wires and go in series in
the circuit. I'm durned if I can see then how it gets the power to
run its little brain when the pump isn't running unless it has a
little rechargeable battery in it some place. If your boat was really
tight and sat for a long time with dry bilges, could the switch then
go to sleep and not turn on if water got in?

I like the time delay feature. We have a wide bilge sump and, with
run back from the hoses, could end up with short cycling when the boat
rolls.

--

Roger Long

"Roger Long" wrote in
:

Does anyone have any experience to report with the new solid state
bilge pump water sensors such as the Johnson Ultima? Sounds like a
good, no jamb, no cog, idea to me.


Ever try putting the float switch in a little cage made out of plastic
screen? It keeps the crap out of the switch float.

Put a hook in the top of it with a line you can pull on if your bilges are
deep. Our bilge pump is so far down you can hardly see it, much less reach
it.

On Sun, 08 May 2005 12:18:43 GMT, "Roger Long"
wrote:

//
The Johnson switch appears to have only two wires and go in series in
the circuit. I'm durned if I can see then how it gets the power to
run its little brain when the pump isn't running //

Hmmm...the appropriate question is the power to run it when it turns
ON. It has battery volts when off.

Brian Whatcott Altus, OK

I used a solid state switch for years. It worked well. Wasn't a Johnson
though, I beleive it was called a Water Witch" or something like that. It
was powered by the battery that powers the pump.

Doug

"Roger Long" wrote in message
...
Does anyone have any experience to report with the new solid state bilge
pump water sensors such as the Johnson Ultima? Sounds like a good, no
jamb, no cog, idea to me.

The Johnson switch appears to have only two wires and go in series in the
circuit. I'm durned if I can see then how it gets the power to run its
little brain when the pump isn't running unless it has a little
rechargeable battery in it some place. If your boat was really tight and
sat for a long time with dry bilges, could the switch then go to sleep and
not turn on if water got in?

I like the time delay feature. We have a wide bilge sump and, with run
back from the hoses, could end up with short cycling when the boat rolls.

--

Roger Long

On Sun, 08 May 2005 08:42:43 -0400, Larry W4CSC
wrote:

"Roger Long" wrote in
:

Does anyone have any experience to report with the new solid state
bilge pump water sensors such as the Johnson Ultima? Sounds like a
good, no jamb, no cog, idea to me.


Ever try putting the float switch in a little cage made out of plastic
screen? It keeps the crap out of the switch float.

Put a hook in the top of it with a line you can pull on if your bilges are
deep. Our bilge pump is so far down you can hardly see it, much less reach
it.

I have a pump that reaches down into the deep bilge with a suction
hose. My main bilge pumps are pretty easy to get to.

Skipper wrote in
:

I have a pump that reaches down into the deep bilge with a suction
hose. My main bilge pumps are pretty easy to get to.



Because Lionheart, an Amel Sharki ketch, has all its drains going into the
bilge, not overboard, she came with a quite-large, self-priming electric
diaphram bilge pump. But, alas, before we got it, noone lubed its bearings
so they were all destroyed. The motor bearings were so worn the rotor was
locked to the stator. I suppose your pump is like that. Man those things
are expensive!

Well, I've decided to go even higher tech. For just ten bucks more
than the SansSwithc that West Marine had, I've ordered their See Water
switch. This is a capacitive switch that is height adjustable so you
can fine tune the cut off level. The thing that sold me about it
though is that it doesn't sense oil or fuel. That way, if the fuel
tank springs a leak or a fuel line breaks, the bilge system won't pump
the whole mess overboard. Even if you have a lot of fuel oil floating
on top of the water, it will pump out the water and stop when it hits
the oil. Having seen the havoc of automatic bilge pumps emptying fuel
tanks into the harbor, I think this ten bucks is good insurance.

That's the theory anyway. I'll let you know how it actually works out

I'm really pondering Larry's suggestion to not have bilge pump cut
off switches and it seems to make sense. Turning off the bilge pumps
would be so rare that pulling the fuse wouldn't be a big deal and you
don't have to worry about someone turning everything off. I am going
with the two bilge pump system BTW. I'll probably wire one off of each
battery at the selector switch input through a fuse block with lights
as he suggest. That will also free up a switch in my limited panel for
something else.

The lights across the fuses is a great idea.

--

Roger Long

On Mon, 09 May 2005 00:50:37 GMT, "Roger Long"
wrote:

Well, I've decided to go even higher tech. For just ten bucks more
than the SansSwithc that West Marine had, I've ordered their See Water
switch. This is a capacitive switch that is height adjustable so you
can fine tune the cut off level. The thing that sold me about it
though is that it doesn't sense oil or fuel. That way, if the fuel
tank springs a leak or a fuel line breaks, the bilge system won't pump
the whole mess overboard. Even if you have a lot of fuel oil floating
on top of the water, it will pump out the water and stop when it hits
the oil. Having seen the havoc of automatic bilge pumps emptying fuel
tanks into the harbor, I think this ten bucks is good insurance.

That's the theory anyway. I'll let you know how it actually works out
///

Capacitive sensors are often used in aircraft fuel tanks as level
sensors. Here, the presence of water is a real nuisance because the
dielectric constant of water is about 80 and that of fuel is in the
low single digits.

So for water sensing, this disadvantage looks like a real advantage.

Brian Whatcott Altus, OK

"Roger Long" wrote in message
...
Does anyone have any experience to report with the new solid state
bilge pump water sensors such as the Johnson Ultima? Sounds like a
good, no jamb, no cog, idea to me.

The Johnson switch appears to have only two wires and go in series in
the circuit. I'm durned if I can see then how it gets the power to
run its little brain when the pump isn't running

If the switch is off there is 12 volts accross it as the voltage drop
accross the pump motor further down the circuit(while it isn't running) is
virtually nil. As the switch uses only a tiny bit of power, the switch thus
sends a tiny bit of power through the pump at all times, but so little the
pump motor doesn't move. Many electronic home thermostats work this way,
they call it "power stealing." Make sense?

unless it has a
little rechargeable battery in it some place. If your boat was really
tight and sat for a long time with dry bilges, could the switch then
go to sleep and not turn on if water got in?

I like the time delay feature. We have a wide bilge sump and, with
run back from the hoses, could end up with short cycling when the boat
rolls.

--

Roger Long



--
Ken Heaton & Anne Tobin
Cape Breton Island, Canada
kenheaton AT ess wye dee DOT eastlink DOT ca

"Ken Heaton" wrote in message
news:XPGfe.57183$tg1.9223@edtnps84...
they call it "power stealing." Make sense?

Oh, of course. The circuit is complete through the pump. Instead of
ON-OFF, the switch is really going from very high resistance to no
resistance.

--

Roger Long

Hi Roger,

I purchased one of these and returned it.... the shocking thing
about it was that if the white part of the unit gets wet, it can cause
damage to the unit..... never had a bilge switch that said it could
not get wet. I went with the electronic switch.

-Lee

On Mon, 09 May 2005 00:50:37 GMT, "Roger Long"
wrote:

Well, I've decided to go even higher tech. For just ten bucks more
than the SansSwithc that West Marine had, I've ordered their See
Water
switch. This is a capacitive switch that is height adjustable so you
can fine tune the cut off level. The thing that sold me about it
though is that it doesn't sense oil or fuel. That way, if the fuel
tank springs a leak or a fuel line breaks, the bilge system won't
pump
the whole mess overboard. Even if you have a lot of fuel oil
floating
on top of the water, it will pump out the water and stop when it hits
the oil. Having seen the havoc of automatic bilge pumps emptying
fuel
tanks into the harbor, I think this ten bucks is good insurance.

That's the theory anyway. I'll let you know how it actually works
out

I'm really pondering Larry's suggestion to not have bilge pump cut
off switches and it seems to make sense. Turning off the bilge pumps
would be so rare that pulling the fuse wouldn't be a big deal and you
don't have to worry about someone turning everything off. I am going
with the two bilge pump system BTW. I'll probably wire one off of
each
battery at the selector switch input through a fuse block with lights
as he suggest. That will also free up a switch in my limited panel
for
something else.

The lights across the fuses is a great idea.

Subject

We are in the level measuring business.

We provide a 100% performance guarantee with every instrument.

To provide that kind of application guarantee requires about a $1,000
USD investment for a bilge switch in a boat.

SFWIW, anything less and you are kidding yourself.

Lew

Would you please clarify what you are saying here? I'm not sure what
you are replying to.

Are you warning me that this switch could not possibly work reliably
because it is so cheap?

The case appears to be well sealed and a solid block of epoxy but
there is a warning to be sure it is installed so that the pump starts
before the case is immersed or it will "Become contaminated". There
are also instructions to keep soap film off the case and clean it. I
assume this has something to do with changing the capacitance.

My concern at this point would be what would happen if the batteries
went dead and you returned to the boat to find water covering the
switches. Would the bilge pumps start when you restored power? The
switches do have a manual over ride connection which I will install to
cover this eventuality.

--

Roger Long



"Lew Hodgett" wrote in message
k.net...
Subject

We are in the level measuring business.

We provide a 100% performance guarantee with every instrument.

To provide that kind of application guarantee requires about a
$1,000 USD investment for a bilge switch in a boat.

SFWIW, anything less and you are kidding yourself.

Lew

Roger Long wrote:


Are you warning me that this switch could not possibly work reliably
because it is so cheap?


Close enough for government work.

Lew