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sailing with baby
We're due in June and would like to hear from people who have experience
sailing with a 0-4 month old. Pros, cons, advice and warnings as well as any product suggestions to purchase are greatly appreciated. We have had fabulous feedback from our vessel-specific forum and wanted to tap the veterans here as well. (Please no stories about how your son started sailing with you at age 6. Infants only please!) Thanks so much, Jay & Michelle s/v Elixir Buzzards Bay |
Miech wrote:
Not a personal experience, but one I saw at my YC. When the kid is 4 months or so hang a Jolly Jumper from the cabin top and put the kid in it. Then heel all you want and the kid will never notice. We're due in June and would like to hear from people who have experience sailing with a 0-4 month old. Pros, cons, advice and warnings as well as any product suggestions to purchase are greatly appreciated. We have had fabulous feedback from our vessel-specific forum and wanted to tap the veterans here as well. (Please no stories about how your son started sailing with you at age 6. Infants only please!) Thanks so much, Jay & Michelle s/v Elixir Buzzards Bay |
Miech wrote:
We're due in June and would like to hear from people who have experience sailing with a 0-4 month old. Pros, cons, advice and warnings as well as any product suggestions to purchase are greatly appreciated. We have had fabulous feedback from our vessel-specific forum and wanted to tap the veterans here as well. I wouldn't do it. That's what grandparents are for..... A break for you and a treat for them...chance to get close to the little nipper. |
"Miech" wrote in
: cons, NOONE who can't SWIM belongs in a boat, adults or, especially that little baby.... Test it out, "Worst Case Scenario".....put him in whatever PFD you've got and throw him over the side of the dock. Think he'll "make it"? How will you feel when he drowns? You can't save him. Hell, adults are lucky just saving THEMSELVES! The waves at the dock aren't even 5' swells. I agree with the other poster.....Leave him with grandparents until he can swim two lengths of the pool. Babies have no business in a boat which may sink.....neither do non-swimmer adults. A man drown, just yesterday, when he fell out of a small fishing boat in the Stono River near Charleston. Two reasons he drowned....no PFD...couldn't swim. As narrow as the Stono River is all the way to Kiawah, if he could swim he didn't need a PFD. He could swim TO SHORE! He was 53 years old, alone and should have known better. His boat was fine floating with the tide. He simply fell out of it while fishing. Please leave the baby with grandma.....for me? |
We lined the v-berth with blankets and put one of those things that
keep babies from falling down stairs across the doorway so she couldnt fall out of the v-berth. Basic rule, nobody comes out of the cabin without a life jacket. This means me, passengers and the baby. Our scariest experience was with our youngest when she was two. We had anchored at Dog island. She slept in the port berth with a lee-cloth. Unlike the two older ones who would always sleep through the night, Katie NEVER sleeps it seems and wakes up at 6 every morn and is seriously independent. We had not spent the night aboard with her till she was two so hadn't considered her lack of sleep problem. Around 6:00 am, I woke up in the v-berth thinking "Somethings wrong", poked my head out and "Where's Katie", then "OH MY GOD, Where is KATIE", jumped out of the v-berth, no sign of her. Ran out the companionway, no sign of her My blood turning to ice and suddenly realizing the worst. Suddenly, she pokes her head over the transom where she is standing on the boarding ladder, feet in the water points down and says "Hishies down dere". Next night she slept in the V-berth with us and we piled all the pots on the companionway steps so they would make noise. Believe it or not I still sail with them, Katie especially (she is 8 now). When my son was 3, we were sailing our old 23' boat from Apalachicola to Shell Point, Fl which means we have to go about 8 miles offshore to clear a shoal. It was just a little choppy. It was his birthday so my wife had made a cake. In the cabin, we lit the candles and sang. He looked at the cake, got an odd look on his face and suddenly puked all over it. |
Miech wrote:
We're due in June and would like to hear from people who have experience sailing with a 0-4 month old. Pros, cons, advice and warnings as well as any product suggestions to purchase are greatly appreciated. We have had fabulous feedback from our vessel-specific forum and wanted to tap the veterans here as well. Our daughter was born in August (9 years ago). She came to the boat almost every weekend that fall, but we only went out if we had a very experienced crew - people we could trust the boat with if my wife and I both got preoccupied with the baby. During the winter she took an infant swimming class at the Y. This goes a long way towards "drown proofing" a child. The following summer, she was with us for a full season. The only concession to our normal cruising itinerary was that we went to the Vineyard rather than Maine. Our boat at the time was a Nonsuch, with a large, deep cockpit and easy to handle rig. We put a gate in the forward cabin, turning the berth into a crib. Padding all around meant that she would be comfortable and safe even in nasty weather. In one episode we were coming out of the Cape Cod Canal into Buzzards Bay, and the current against a strong SW wind had built up the infamous square waves. Amelia slept through that, but she "took air" on every wave. Everyone will tell you the baby must wear a PFD, but no one has made one that will fit a baby under a year old. Ours spent a lot of cockpit time strapped into an old car seat, which was lashed to the bulkhead under the dodger. This brings up an other point - a baby can only tolerate a tiny bit of Sun - make sure you have good shade for the cockpit. One more thing - an infant has a very limited horizon. Not only will your child not remember anything from this age, he will not really notice it either. Taking him out a this age will not make him a better sailor, and will not be any more stimulating than a lot of much safer experiences. You didn't mention what size or type of boat you have, but if its small, or tippy, or bouncy, you should be very, very cautious, at least until the child is a year old. |
Not sailing, but had my son when living on the Yukon river; he went canoeing
and spent his seventh night and years after in camps along the river. Our strict policy was this: On the river one of us ALWAYS wore a PFD and had responsibility for ONLY him if confronted with an emergency. I strongly disagree with Larry and others on this; with careful preparation you can avoid confining your offspring to a skinner box for their first years, and reap handsome rewards later for your efforts. Padeen "Miech" wrote in message ... We're due in June and would like to hear from people who have experience sailing with a 0-4 month old. Pros, cons, advice and warnings as well as any product suggestions to purchase are greatly appreciated. We have had fabulous feedback from our vessel-specific forum and wanted to tap the veterans here as well. (Please no stories about how your son started sailing with you at age 6. Infants only please!) Thanks so much, Jay & Michelle s/v Elixir Buzzards Bay |
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My baby was born last June and already has more sea time than most
adults I know. For me, I was concerned about finding a properly fitted PFD and to make sure it did it's job. I bought three different types (all type 3 but different styles) and tried them out. The one that worked best and looked fairly comfortable on her. It was purchased from West Marine and was the least expensive of the three. I first tried it out in a tub and then a few weeks later in a pool. Aside from that I used the car seat last summer (didnt strap her in). Even though she still fits in it, I dont think Ill be using it this summer. Miech wrote: We're due in June and would like to hear from people who have experience sailing with a 0-4 month old. Pros, cons, advice and warnings as well as any product suggestions to purchase are greatly appreciated. We have had fabulous feedback from our vessel-specific forum and wanted to tap the veterans here as well. (Please no stories about how your son started sailing with you at age 6. Infants only please!) Thanks so much, Jay & Michelle s/v Elixir Buzzards Bay |
My parents raised 9 kids and took us all on crazy trips. They never
sailed but did seem to do everything they could afford to do with all of us, mostly involving a canoe on various Fl bodies of water. If I suggested they babysit while we went sailing, they'd think we were a family disgracce. Besides, with 18 grandkids ( I may have lost count), atking time to babysit in anything except an emergency would make it impossible for them to do anything. Your kids are part of your life, you should be able to figure out how to take them. Congratulations on the little one BTW. kth wrote: My baby was born last June and already has more sea time than most adults I know. For me, I was concerned about finding a properly fitted PFD and to make sure it did it's job. I bought three different types (all type 3 but different styles) and tried them out. The one that worked best and looked fairly comfortable on her. It was purchased from West Marine and was the least expensive of the three. I first tried it out in a tub and then a few weeks later in a pool. Aside from that I used the car seat last summer (didnt strap her in). Even though she still fits in it, I dont think Ill be using it this summer. Miech wrote: We're due in June and would like to hear from people who have experience sailing with a 0-4 month old. Pros, cons, advice and warnings as well as any product suggestions to purchase are greatly appreciated. We have had fabulous feedback from our vessel-specific forum and wanted to tap the veterans here as well. (Please no stories about how your son started sailing with you at age 6. Infants only please!) Thanks so much, Jay & Michelle s/v Elixir Buzzards Bay |
On Fri, 8 Apr 2005 11:45:00 -0400, "Miech"
wrote: We're due in June and would like to hear from people who have experience sailing with a 0-4 month old. Pros, cons, advice and warnings as well as any product suggestions to purchase are greatly appreciated. We have had fabulous feedback from our vessel-specific forum and wanted to tap the veterans here as well. Well, this depends on the type of sailing, location and time of year, but here's some generalizations. Our son is now 3 1/2 and we are on Lake Ontario with a 33 foot C&C designed racer-cruiser from the '70s (tiller and narrow beam, pretty spartan by today's standards). 1) He first sailed at five days...attached to his mother for the most part. 2) At seven months he was in a Bjorn chest carrier on either of us to get on and off the boat. We used netting in the V-berth once he started to roll around a bit. 3) We lashed him into a car seat wearing a PFD, and lashed old kapok-style vests around the car seat for cushioning and floatation. Then we lashed the whole lot into the cockpit, put on some sunscreen and a floppy hat and went sailing. No problem. 4) The problematic part (1 year-2 1/2 or so) wherein he could walk but didn't necessarily "get" boat safety is over. He had a vest-style PFD with crotch strap and neck strap, and did not leave the cockpit unescorted at any point. Last year (2 1/2) he did have the run of the cabin, unless he was naughty, and then into the netted V-berth (or "brig"). His PFD has a lanyard and a Gibb snapshackle. He is snapped on in the cockpit while under way. 5) This year he is 3 1/2 (4 in early September) and he has a new PFD. He knows port from starboard, is starting his knots, and will steer a course this summer under close supervision and only near otherwise unoccupied plastic marker buoys. I am considering pad eyes and jacklines. A few observations: Bring hats, juice and sunscreen and sweater/windbreakers. Children suffer more from weather, thrist and wind. Bring a musical instrument (on a lanyard) and tell them they can finally play as loudly as they like...in the V-berth. This works quite well, as the sounds of wind and water overwhelm the sounds of say, the spastic tambourine, whilst letting you know exactly where Young Cap'n Bligh is. Bring snacks that can go overboard: fruit slices, carrots...NOT potatos chips, which are greasy and make a mess. Small and often keeps 'em cheerful. Bring little activity bags with medium sized toys that don't come apart, or lively picture books with nautical themes. A surprising favourite, considering he can't read very well yet, has been a sailboat spotter's guide. Anything to do with pirates and the opportunity to yell "arrr!" and "avast ye!" at passing craft seems to be very popular. Let them...within reason...work the boat. This could include buoy spotting, "locate the nav hazard", listen for traffic on the VHF, watch for "special birds" or just vocalizing mental checklists and "consulting" the child. Use 'nautical language' on the boat, if you intend to use it at all, as the extra effort to figure out a proxy language will keep the kid's mind working. "Keeping watch" can help a child learn to read clocks and to read the numbers on a compass. The point? If he/she feels a part of the boat, they will take an interest. You want crew, not another passenger. This year I will teach him to swim and to identify sails and start to watch the weather. At six we will suggest junior sail school in Optimists. My fairly intense training of him is partly safety oriented, and partly because we want to world cruise for five or so years starting when he's seven or eight. A familiarity with shipboard routine...and disciplines...will help him and his parents. Hope this helps, R. |
On Fri, 08 Apr 2005 14:21:58 -0400, Larry W4CSC
wrote: Please leave the baby with grandma.....for me? All grandmas are dead, alas. My sister and my wife's brother are 40 miles away and we don't have a car...we have a boat and a nearly paid off mortgage because we don't have a car G and we intend to go cruising while still young, or in my case, youngish for cruising. You do what you can, Larry. My kid is learning to swim this year and is very agile and safety-conscious on the boat, as are we. Is the danger of being on the boat balanced by the danger he doesn't experience being driven ten miles a day in a big city? Can't say, but for now, he comes with us and we sail as safely as we can. R. |
rhys wrote in
: You do what you can, Larry. My kid is learning to swim this year and is very agile and safety-conscious on the boat, as are we. Is the Excellent care. But, alas, they are taking a tiny baby to sea. The baby cannot appreciate or comprehend anything about being on the boat, so we're not giving him/her the experience of a lifetime. What we ARE doing is placing the baby in danger. The baby can't swim and the parents can't save the baby if the boat sinks because they may not be able to save themselves. Oh, I've read all these wonderful stories of the baby that's been to sea since he was 5 days old. But, it only has to happen just ONCE. The baby lost at sea, the parents survive...but to what? They've killed their baby. How awful that must feel, no matter how macho their stupid asses are..... When the child is fully concious as to his surroundings, has learned to swim the length of the pool and is large enough to wear a proper PFD....then, and only then, should the child be on a boat. But not a defenseless, helpless baby! How stupid.....disgusting. They put the child in danger just so they don't have to sacrifice their own pleasure..... The baby and the nursing mother belong at home. |
Larry W4CSC wrote:
rhys wrote in : You do what you can, Larry. My kid is learning to swim this year and is very agile and safety-conscious on the boat, as are we. Is the Excellent care. But, alas, they are taking a tiny baby to sea. The baby cannot appreciate or comprehend anything about being on the boat, so we're not giving him/her the experience of a lifetime. What we ARE doing is placing the baby in danger. The baby can't swim and the parents can't save the baby if the boat sinks because they may not be able to save themselves. Oh, I've read all these wonderful stories of the baby that's been to sea since he was 5 days old. But, it only has to happen just ONCE. The baby lost at sea, the parents survive...but to what? They've killed their baby. How awful that must feel, no matter how macho their stupid asses are..... When the child is fully concious as to his surroundings, has learned to swim the length of the pool and is large enough to wear a proper PFD....then, and only then, should the child be on a boat. But not a defenseless, helpless baby! How stupid.....disgusting. They put the child in danger just so they don't have to sacrifice their own pleasure..... The baby and the nursing mother belong at home. And how long should they wait before bringing a baby home to a normal house? Right outside the door are dangerous roads and highways! Stephen |
It's not just the water...I've never fallen overboard in years of
sailing......but I did get hit in the head by a boom on a Mirage 33 when the skipper gibed without notice, and I was thrown into the end of the boom scratching my glasses when the helmsman ran us aground on another occasion. I also chipped my oldest son's front tooth at age 5. He was playing in the cabin of my smaller centerboard weekend style sailboat and lost his balance when I tacked. Sh*t happens. |
My neighbors went aboard their 39' SV when the first baby was a few months
old. They went to Mexico on the boat and proceded to have 4 more children, all onboard the same boat. They lived on it for 13 years and home schooled the kids.The only reson they moved off was to give the kids more interaction with others and to enjoy high school things. The last of the five are now close to finishing college! G wrote in message oups.com... My parents raised 9 kids and took us all on crazy trips. They never sailed but did seem to do everything they could afford to do with all of us, mostly involving a canoe on various Fl bodies of water. If I suggested they babysit while we went sailing, they'd think we were a family disgracce. Besides, with 18 grandkids ( I may have lost count), atking time to babysit in anything except an emergency would make it impossible for them to do anything. Your kids are part of your life, you should be able to figure out how to take them. Congratulations on the little one BTW. kth wrote: My baby was born last June and already has more sea time than most adults I know. For me, I was concerned about finding a properly fitted PFD and to make sure it did it's job. I bought three different types (all type 3 but different styles) and tried them out. The one that worked best and looked fairly comfortable on her. It was purchased from West Marine and was the least expensive of the three. I first tried it out in a tub and then a few weeks later in a pool. Aside from that I used the car seat last summer (didnt strap her in). Even though she still fits in it, I dont think Ill be using it this summer. Miech wrote: We're due in June and would like to hear from people who have experience sailing with a 0-4 month old. Pros, cons, advice and warnings as well as any product suggestions to purchase are greatly appreciated. We have had fabulous feedback from our vessel-specific forum and wanted to tap the veterans here as well. (Please no stories about how your son started sailing with you at age 6. Infants only please!) Thanks so much, Jay & Michelle s/v Elixir Buzzards Bay |
Have any kids, Larry?
I had two, now I have one. Lost the second @ 4 yrs to drowning in his grandparent's backyard swimming pool. S*it does happen, even in the home environment. We, his parents, did survive, overcame the horrors of guilt, and have a healthy life. The point? Babies need care and supervision everywhere, all the time. This can be provided almost anywhere, including on a sailboat. Avoiding sailing because of uncontrollable catastrophes is like refusing to ride in an automobile because of the annual highway death toll. OTOH, providing a child with the confined and continual care a cruising lifestyle encompasses has considerable advantages over tot-care, traffic, neighborhood crime, suburban rat-racing, TV, mall crawlers, and backyard swimming pools. Padeen "Larry W4CSC" wrote in message ... rhys wrote in : You do what you can, Larry. My kid is learning to swim this year and is very agile and safety-conscious on the boat, as are we. Is the Excellent care. But, alas, they are taking a tiny baby to sea. The baby cannot appreciate or comprehend anything about being on the boat, so we're not giving him/her the experience of a lifetime. What we ARE doing is placing the baby in danger. The baby can't swim and the parents can't save the baby if the boat sinks because they may not be able to save themselves. Oh, I've read all these wonderful stories of the baby that's been to sea since he was 5 days old. But, it only has to happen just ONCE. The baby lost at sea, the parents survive...but to what? They've killed their baby. How awful that must feel, no matter how macho their stupid asses are..... When the child is fully concious as to his surroundings, has learned to swim the length of the pool and is large enough to wear a proper PFD....then, and only then, should the child be on a boat. But not a defenseless, helpless baby! How stupid.....disgusting. They put the child in danger just so they don't have to sacrifice their own pleasure..... The baby and the nursing mother belong at home. |
My daughter was born on April 16, and went out with us from the
beginning of the sailing season in MA onward. First year is easiest because she could be strapped into a car seat and we knew she would stay put. After she began to move, one adult always had to have her within arm's reach. Lots of good times, that she doesn't remember, but one that she seems to is hanging a baby swing from the boom at anchor. She wore a life jacket even though the boom was centered in the cockpit. She had a great 360 degree view and collected a lot of comments :) The Martins started their family while sailing around the world on a highly modified Cal 25 and they offer some specific tips and stories at SetSail.com: http://www.setsail.com/s_logs/martin/martin.html Use common sense, be careful, and everything should be fine. Little things to remember, juice boxes need to be in hard holders otherwise they get squeezed and juice gets all over the cockpit. Hats and airy long sleeve clothes in addition to sunblock. If you get into the pacifier routine, keep an extra package of one or two on board all the time, in addition to the stuff that travels with the diaper/day bag. A weekend can be ruined by losing the damn thing. If you keep emergency food onboard, be sure to add "kid stuff" to the supplies, in the event that motor and wind conspire to make it impossible to come in one night. Yes, it can be stressful, but it needn't keep you tied to the dock to have a small child with you. Good luck, Jonathan Miech wrote: We're due in June and would like to hear from people who have experience sailing with a 0-4 month old. Pros, cons, advice and warnings as well as any product suggestions to purchase are greatly appreciated. We have had fabulous feedback from our vessel-specific forum and wanted to tap the veterans here as well. (Please no stories about how your son started sailing with you at age 6. Infants only please!) Thanks so much, Jay & Michelle s/v Elixir Buzzards Bay |
Stephen Trapani wrote in
: And how long should they wait before bringing a baby home to a normal house? Right outside the door are dangerous roads and highways! Stephen What's this? Denial? Being on a boat is much more dangerous, especially to a defenseless infant, than riding in a carseat. |
I hesitate to mention it....but an economist was talking on NPR, this
morning. He had controversial views on the crime wave vs abortion, and on swim pools vs guns. Here was his assertion on swim pools: there are X children drowned each year in swim pools. (He mentioned a figure - I think it was in the hundreds.) There are Y children killed each year from gun-shot wounds from home-based weapons. the gun-deaths Y are less than the drowning numbers X but there are about as many guns as the US population numbers. And there are many less swim pools than the US population. HENCE, home swim-pools are MUCH more dangerous than home-owners guns.... His views on abortion are even more inflammatory - that there is a clear relation between the beginning of the option to choose abortion, and 20 years later, the reduction in violent crime. His assertion: that unwanted children suffer adverse consequences of being raised in an unwanted or insufficient family environment. Brian Whatcott On Sun, 10 Apr 2005 00:05:36 GMT, "Padeen" wrote: Have any kids, Larry? I had two, now I have one. Lost the second @ 4 yrs to drowning in his grandparent's backyard swimming pool. S*it does happen, even in the home environment. We, his parents, did survive, overcame the horrors of guilt, and have a healthy life. The point? Babies need care and supervision everywhere, all the time. This can be provided almost anywhere, including on a sailboat. Avoiding sailing because of uncontrollable catastrophes is like refusing to ride in an automobile because of the annual highway death toll. OTOH, providing a child with the confined and continual care a cruising lifestyle encompasses has considerable advantages over tot-care, traffic, neighborhood crime, suburban rat-racing, TV, mall crawlers, and backyard swimming pools. Padeen "Larry W4CSC" wrote in message ... rhys wrote in : You do what you can, Larry. My kid is learning to swim this year and is very agile and safety-conscious on the boat, as are we. Is the Excellent care. But, alas, they are taking a tiny baby to sea. The baby cannot appreciate or comprehend anything about being on the boat, so we're not giving him/her the experience of a lifetime. What we ARE doing is placing the baby in danger. The baby can't swim and the parents can't save the baby if the boat sinks because they may not be able to save themselves. Oh, I've read all these wonderful stories of the baby that's been to sea since he was 5 days old. But, it only has to happen just ONCE. The baby lost at sea, the parents survive...but to what? They've killed their baby. How awful that must feel, no matter how macho their stupid asses are..... When the child is fully concious as to his surroundings, has learned to swim the length of the pool and is large enough to wear a proper PFD....then, and only then, should the child be on a boat. But not a defenseless, helpless baby! How stupid.....disgusting. They put the child in danger just so they don't have to sacrifice their own pleasure..... The baby and the nursing mother belong at home. |
Our daughter was born in September but didn't start sailing until she
was about 8 months old for a 2 week trip. We did live on our 30' boat though :). When she was 8 months old she wasn't walking so she spent a lot of the time underway when in a car seat under the dodger to keep her from the sun. She loved dinghy rides and dragging her hand in the water. A 0-4 month old doesn't need much to keep her amused. Keep her hydrated, out of the sun, and comfortable and they will be fine. People that have their babies wear a lifejacket in a car seat sound a bit much though! If the baby is strapped in the car seat, and the car seat is attached to the boat, why bother? Suggestions: have the boat set up to be easily single handed, including an autopilot if at all possible. Make meals in advance or keep them very simple when underway. Be conservative about your sailing destinations & the weather. Allow lots of play time before & after the sailing part of the day. At age 8 months she was easier to handle than the following summer, when we moved, had a smaller (24' San Juan) boat. That summer she wore a PFD in the cockpit (a tether was not a good idea for her active little self). This 1-1/2 - 2-1/2 age range was more challenging; as somebody said lots of activities but not much brains for safety. New "boat specific" toys & activities when she/he gets older are great (bubbles, pouring water in the cockpit, pretend fishing rods). The next year we got a bigger 40' catamaran. She is pretty happy with her next size up lifejacket. She has to wear it out of the cockpit on deck. Since our boat doesn't heel we are less worried about losing her, though one day we'll get lifelines (seriously). At this age she loves our trampolines and her real fishing rod and going with dad to set the crab trap. She has fallen out of a dinghy while rowing with cousins at age 2-3/4. Wearing her PFD she starting swimming for the big boat. Her only worry was her hat had covered her eyes and couldn't see too well where she was going. |
Larry W4CSC wrote:
Stephen Trapani wrote in : And how long should they wait before bringing a baby home to a normal house? Right outside the door are dangerous roads and highways! Stephen What's this? Denial? Being on a boat is much more dangerous, especially to a defenseless infant, than riding in a carseat. Well, we're talking about defended infants, defended by good parents doing their job as best they can. No one was asking for help with unattended infants. You really think the percentage of infants killed per activity is more on boats than in cars? I'm guessing cars are *way* more dangerous, eg, result in way more serious injuries and deaths per amount of participants. Stephen |
Larry W4CSC wrote:
Stephen Trapani wrote in : And how long should they wait before bringing a baby home to a normal house? Right outside the door are dangerous roads and highways! What's this? Denial? Being on a boat is much more dangerous, especially to a defenseless infant, than riding in a carseat. I haven't seen any figures on risk broken down to include only infants, but the overall risk of fatality when sailing is given as 0.12 per million hours at: web.usna.navy.mil/~phmiller/phmSAS04.ppt (slide 12) while the risk for riding in a passenger car is estimated at 0.47 per million hours at: http://www.magma.ca/~ocbc/comparat.html I realize both studies are a bit dated, and cars have gotten a little safer in the last decade, but I doubt any change would be large enough to make cars safer than sailing. More current statistics would be welcomed. Based on the above numbers it appears that if the risk of taking the child on an afternoon drive is considered acceptable then going sailing for the afternoon should be acceptable as well provided that normal precautions appropriate to each activity are followed. |
Larry W4CSC wrote:
Stephen Trapani wrote in : And how long should they wait before bringing a baby home to a normal house? Right outside the door are dangerous roads and highways! Stephen What's this? Denial? Being on a boat is much more dangerous, especially to a defenseless infant, than riding in a carseat. The denial is on your part. You are not looking at the actual hazard which is much less in boating than in driving. You are just accustomed to driving - it is a necessary part of life for almost all parents, and so we accept the hazard. It has been made safer with the addition of car seats and car crash protection etc, but it is still dangerous. You are more outraged by the smaller hazard in boating because it is not necessary. Just like refueling a gasoline automobile is dangerous. We have all kinds of rules for refueling a boat with gasoline, but we do cars all the time, and people are so used to it that they stand there and smoke while they do it. An infant is not defenseless if there are parent(s) who are vigilant and aware - whether the hazard is a bear in the woods, or crime in the streets or the hazard of drowning. Plus I don't think you are really processing what people are saying about how they are dealing with an infant. A child before they walk is much less at risk than a toddler - generally they stay where you put them. If a mom is 'wearing' the child, the child goes where the mom goes - on board or overboard. If the child is in a car seat tied down in the boat, it's no more unsafe than a car seat in a car. In either case, the safety of the child depends on the safe operation of the vehicle. The crunch comes when the child is more mobile. We have had toddlers on the boat and we require that all persons wear PFDs unless they are below in the cabin with a parent (these were grandchildren). The child sometimes pitched a fit, but they wore the PFD anyway. One of them was sitting on his mom's lap while she steered, and he unscrewed the wheel. But it is a sailboat, and that was pretty quickly fixed. It wasn't life threatening. The really dangerous part is getting from the dock to the boat. grandma Rosalie |
Larry W4CSC wrote:
And how long should they wait before bringing a baby home to a normal house? Right outside the door are dangerous roads and highways! What's this? Denial? Being on a boat is much more dangerous, especially to a defenseless infant, than riding in a carseat. Denial? Maybe not. The CG Accident reports started reporting "AGE OF INJURED VICTIM BY TYPE OF VESSEL" in the last two reports. The total number of injuries for children under 12 in auxiliary sailboats in 2002 and 2003 is one. They don't have the same breakdown in previous years, but the rough evidence implies this is not an anomaly. (Especially if you don't count the two children that drowned in a Mac 26x rollover 4 years ago.) Infants don't belong on jetskis, but I'm not sure you can make a case that a well handled larger sailboat is that dangerous. http://www.uscgboating.org/statistic...stics_2003.pdf BTW, shortly before leaving on our trip our 4 year old daughter hit a post running into the day care center. We spent a morning in the ER having here forehead superglued together. This was worse than any injury on our year long cruise. In fact, since I got out of dinghy sailing, there's never been an injury on any kind in any of my boats. However, several months after returning from the trip, my wife blew out her Achilles playing soccer. I'm not at all convinced cruising is more dangerous than being on land, especially if appropriate care is taken. |
A good way for little ones to have fun on a hot day of sailing: Put up
the bimini, stop up the cockpit drains and flood the cockpit with about 1.5" water. The little ones splash around and have a ball. It keeps your feet cool too. Jeff wrote: Larry W4CSC wrote: And how long should they wait before bringing a baby home to a normal house? Right outside the door are dangerous roads and highways! What's this? Denial? Being on a boat is much more dangerous, especially to a defenseless infant, than riding in a carseat. Denial? Maybe not. The CG Accident reports started reporting "AGE OF INJURED VICTIM BY TYPE OF VESSEL" in the last two reports. The total number of injuries for children under 12 in auxiliary sailboats in 2002 and 2003 is one. They don't have the same breakdown in previous years, but the rough evidence implies this is not an anomaly. (Especially if you don't count the two children that drowned in a Mac 26x rollover 4 years ago.) Infants don't belong on jetskis, but I'm not sure you can make a case that a well handled larger sailboat is that dangerous. http://www.uscgboating.org/statistic...stics_2003.pdf BTW, shortly before leaving on our trip our 4 year old daughter hit a post running into the day care center. We spent a morning in the ER having here forehead superglued together. This was worse than any injury on our year long cruise. In fact, since I got out of dinghy sailing, there's never been an injury on any kind in any of my boats. However, several months after returning from the trip, my wife blew out her Achilles playing soccer. I'm not at all convinced cruising is more dangerous than being on land, especially if appropriate care is taken. |
Evan Gatehouse wrote in
: People that have their babies wear a lifejacket in a car seat sound a bit much though! If the baby is strapped in the car seat, and the car seat is attached to the boat, why bother? * 30' boat flips from rogue wave. Adults thrown overboard. Child strapped in car seat, car seat attached to boat is now underwater, face-down, in inverted boat.....or on bottom of lake/river/ocean in sunken boat. ** 30' boat sliced open from uncharted rock 2' underwater. Boat sinks in seconds as adults scramble to unstrap child from stupid, non-PFD car seat. Adults not wearing PFDs drown trying to save him. Any more stupid questions this afternoon? What brand/model of infant PFD can that 8-month-old tiny baby wear that's on your boat? If we put the baby in it and throw him overboard, assuming he is not strapped down to the sinking hulk headed for the bottom, will he breathe any water into his lungs? Will his head slip through the hole if you're not there to hold him in it? Why bother? Geez.....................(d^:) |
Stephen Trapani wrote in
: Well, we're talking about defended infants, defended by good parents doing their job as best they can. No one was asking for help with unattended infants. Defended? Strapped in a carrier, strapped to the boat? "Go down with the ship" is it? Someone bragged about this in this thread. You really think the percentage of infants killed per activity is more on boats than in cars? I'm guessing cars are *way* more dangerous, eg, result in way more serious injuries and deaths per amount of participants. Hmm....millions of infants ride in cars/trucks/SUVs every day. How many ride in boats....tops....100? Another problem someone mentioned was the PFD problem. Our law says: "All boats must have at least one Type I, II, III or V personal flotation device that is U.S. Coast Guard– approved, wearable and of the proper size for each person onboard. Sizing for PFDs is based on body weight and chest size. .. South Carolina law requires all children under 12 years of age to wear a U.S. Coast Guard–approved Type I, II, III or V PFD while on board a Class A (less than 16 ft. long) boat or PWC. The PFD must be fastened and of the proper size for the child." Moot point...no baby PFD, no baby on a boat. The smallest CG-approved PFD I've seen from Wally World or Waste Marine looks to be made for a kid of 3- 5? http://www.nodakoutdoors.com/valleyoutdoors25.php Here's a webpage from a North Dakota game warden who's laws are more strict than South Carolina's with some really great ideas like: "If you don’t have a PFD that fits your child, or it’s too hot for them to wear it, stay on shore." The boat ran aground because someone was not paying attention. The poor kid was in a carseat, not a PFD as required. Do carseats float UPRIGHT? Interesting to test....in the worst waves and wakes you boat in? The article says: "Upon arrival I found two young parents tending to a newborn baby who didn’t have any type of PFD. The baby was in a car seat and thankfully all was fine, aside from the boat, which came to rest up a steep wooded incline, indicating a lack of attention while operating the vessel. I still to this day think of how haunting the memory would’ve been had the car seat been jolted out of the boat and into the lake. For several years I checked boats and watercraft and was continually disappointed in compliance with PFD laws, especially the one that applies to children. While only youngsters 10 and under must be wearing a Coast Guard approved PFD while in a boat, the common response was, “I couldn’t find one that fits,” or “it was too hot to put them in a PFD.” While politely replying that the law requires youngsters to wear PFDs, I was always reminded of what could have happened if that baby in the carseat had accidentally wound up in the lake." The big boat lobby in SC has this requirement limited to only boats UNDER SIXTEEN FEET that the kid has to have a PFD on under 12: From the SCDNR rules manual: "South Carolina law requires all children under 12 years of age to wear a U.S. Coast Guard–approved Type I, II, III or V PFD while on board a Class A (less than 16 ft. long) boat or PWC. The PFD must be fastened and of the proper size for the child." If the 6-year-old who can't swim is standing on the bow of the 32' bubble boat without a PFD on, the big boat lobby says that's OK. We can't prosecute the parents, in SC, because the baby was strapped in the car seat which was secured to the port cockpit seating and went down when the boat broached or pitchpoled or flipped over in the 40' Cigarette Boat going, legally, 102 mph across the harbor. We have a long history, by the way, of not prosecuting people with money in SC.... They'd be covered if they had a baby PFD stowed away in a plastic bag in the quarter berth. http://www.stearnsinc.com/NC_Product...tegoryID=45350 18 Cheap Stearns vest for small child...I doubt the straps will keep a BABY in it. http://www.mustangsurvival.com/produ...uct.php?id=397 This one from Mustang Survival fits chests 18 to 20". How big around are little babies 5 days old? They don't look that big when they pop out of Mom. Here's an INFLATABLE! http://www.storesonline.com/site/405...uct/999-773260 Comes in a convenient airline seat storage pouch for the quarter berth. "Under 35 pounds". Does that mean 14 lbs 9 oz? That's "Under 35 pounds", isn't it? Will the baby be able to pull the ripcord? It gets dumber and dumber. The FAA did some good. I suspect the reason for this being on the market is the TSO forced airlines to change to new, improved child vests so they dumped this on the market to unload them. equipped.com has an interesting website that resulted in testing with infants to see what worked or not: http://www.equipped.com/avvests.htm#kidvest I like the idea of the Hoover FV-2000 ($185-225) which is a CAPSULE that not only protect the infant from breathing in water but isolates him from the hypothermia that's killing Mom and Dad in their life jackets. They mention some shortfalls but it's a great idea. The airlines are much more afraid of the babys' lawyers than daddy is on his boat. Let's send the CG inspectors around to all the posters with babies aboard to see if they actually DO have a baby PFD I had a hard time finding on the net, putting it on the baby to see how it fits and what his/her survival chances are and write their sorry asses up when they produce the 7-year- old's cutesy life vest with the Mickey Mouse and CG labels that have no chance of saving the poor baby.....whos head slips easily through the big hole. What's on YOUR boat, eh? |
Larry W4CSC wrote:
Evan Gatehouse wrote in : People that have their babies wear a lifejacket in a car seat sound a bit much though! If the baby is strapped in the car seat, and the car seat is attached to the boat, why bother? * 30' boat flips from rogue wave. Adults thrown overboard. Child strapped in car seat, car seat attached to boat is now underwater, face-down, in inverted boat.....or on bottom of lake/river/ocean in sunken boat. ** 30' boat sliced open from uncharted rock 2' underwater. Boat sinks in seconds as adults scramble to unstrap child from stupid, non-PFD car seat. Adults not wearing PFDs drown trying to save him. Any more stupid questions this afternoon? No, I think you have the "stupid question" market sewn up, Larry. You're argument is based on events that are extremely rare. Cruising sailboats don't sink very often, and they don't capsize. The one case I know of where a keel got ripped off actually had a young child on board, but there were no injuries. The statistics are quite clear: cruising boats are vastly safer than riding in a car. For example, almost 300,000 children are injured each year in car accidents. This means that one out of every 250 families has a child injured. Given that there are about 230,000 aux sailboats, one might expect 1000 injuries, but in fact there was only 1 in the last two years. What brand/model of infant PFD can that 8-month-old tiny baby wear that's on your boat? If we put the baby in it and throw him overboard, assuming he is not strapped down to the sinking hulk headed for the bottom, will he breathe any water into his lungs? Will his head slip through the hole if you're not there to hold him in it? So, how many sailboats do you think sink every year? Its about 4, or about two for every 100,000. How many infants do you think die from all accidents? The rate is about 22 per 100,000. Actually the odds sinking are about the same as drowning in the bathtub. Why bother? Why not? The most dangerous part of sailing is driving to the marina. |
Larry W4CSC wrote:
Evan Gatehouse wrote in : People that have their babies wear a lifejacket in a car seat sound a bit much though! If the baby is strapped in the car seat, and the car seat is attached to the boat, why bother? * 30' boat flips from rogue wave. Adults thrown overboard. Child strapped in car seat, car seat attached to boat is now underwater, face-down, in inverted boat.....or on bottom of lake/river/ocean in sunken boat. How many rogue waves are there in rivers or lakes OT one of the Great Lakes? Even in the ocean, I haven't seen any rogue waves - relatively rare. ** 30' boat sliced open from uncharted rock 2' underwater. Boat sinks in seconds as adults scramble to unstrap child from stupid, non-PFD car seat. Adults not wearing PFDs drown trying to save him. The adults should also be wearing PFDs. I think the likelihood of that happening is also rare - more likely where you are would be them being run over by a freighter. How about the hazard of a semi-truck overturning on your car? It does happen (the instance I'm thinking of it killed the mom, but the baby was OK), but it's pretty rare. Any more stupid questions this afternoon? What brand/model of infant PFD can that 8-month-old tiny baby wear that's on your boat? If we put the baby in it and throw him overboard, assuming First some people check the PFD out on their child (like in a pool) before they go out. So they will know that it fits. Not necessary to throw the kid overboard. Second - an 8 month old baby is not *that* tiny. My four were all over 8 lbs when born, and they went up from there. One or two of them were walking by 8 months. So not that helpless either. he is not strapped down to the sinking hulk headed for the bottom, will he breathe any water into his lungs? Will his head slip through the hole if you're not there to hold him in it? Why bother? Geez.....................(d^:) grandma Rosalie |
Larry W4CSC wrote:
Stephen Trapani wrote in : Well, we're talking about defended infants, defended by good parents doing their job as best they can. No one was asking for help with unattended infants. Defended? Strapped in a carrier, strapped to the boat? "Go down with the ship" is it? Someone bragged about this in this thread. Barring very bad luck those infants can be defended, or rescued, like one referred to in this thread was. You really think the percentage of infants killed per activity is more on boats than in cars? I'm guessing cars are *way* more dangerous, eg, result in way more serious injuries and deaths per amount of participants. Hmm....millions of infants ride in cars/trucks/SUVs every day. How many ride in boats....tops....100? By now you've seen the URLs and stats. The percentage of infants killed on the road is higher, so, still more dangerous for any one infant on the road. Another problem someone mentioned was the PFD problem. Our law says: "All boats must have at least one Type I, II, III or V personal flotation device that is U.S. Coast Guard– approved, wearable and of the proper size for each person onboard. Sizing for PFDs is based on body weight and chest size. . South Carolina law requires all children under 12 years of age to wear a U.S. Coast Guard–approved Type I, II, III or V PFD while on board a Class A (less than 16 ft. long) boat or PWC. The PFD must be fastened and of the proper size for the child." Moot point...no baby PFD, no baby on a boat. The smallest CG-approved PFD I've seen from Wally World or Waste Marine looks to be made for a kid of 3- 5? If you're trying to say that rescuing an infant with or without a flotation device is more difficult than rescuing any other person who can't swimm, then I'm not sure I agree. My father in law told me about his fear of the water coming from once when he was drowning and he almosts drowned one guy trying to rescue him. An infant would be way easier than that! [...] They'd be covered if they had a baby PFD stowed away in a plastic bag in the quarter berth. http://www.stearnsinc.com/NC_Product...tegoryID=45350 18 Cheap Stearns vest for small child...I doubt the straps will keep a BABY in it. http://www.mustangsurvival.com/produ...uct.php?id=397 This one from Mustang Survival fits chests 18 to 20". How big around are little babies 5 days old? They don't look that big when they pop out of Mom. If you're trying to say that PFDs for infants are harder to find than for anyone else, well, it seems you may be right. Sounds like they need some kind of special rig. HEY SOMEONE INVENT SOMETHING! ;-) Here's an INFLATABLE! http://www.storesonline.com/site/405...uct/999-773260 Comes in a convenient airline seat storage pouch for the quarter berth. "Under 35 pounds". Does that mean 14 lbs 9 oz? That's "Under 35 pounds", isn't it? Will the baby be able to pull the ripcord? It gets dumber and dumber. The FAA did some good. I suspect the reason for this being on the market is the TSO forced airlines to change to new, improved child vests so they dumped this on the market to unload them. equipped.com has an interesting website that resulted in testing with infants to see what worked or not: http://www.equipped.com/avvests.htm#kidvest I like the idea of the Hoover FV-2000 ($185-225) which is a CAPSULE that not only protect the infant from breathing in water but isolates him from the hypothermia that's killing Mom and Dad in their life jackets. They mention some shortfalls but it's a great idea. The airlines are much more afraid of the babys' lawyers than daddy is on his boat. Hm, sounds like a good idea! Let's send the CG inspectors around to all the posters with babies aboard to see if they actually DO have a baby PFD I had a hard time finding on the net, putting it on the baby to see how it fits and what his/her survival chances are and write their sorry asses up when they produce the 7-year- old's cutesy life vest with the Mickey Mouse and CG labels that have no chance of saving the poor baby.....whos head slips easily through the big hole. Probably another good idea. What's on YOUR boat, eh? Just those for the four of us with a few cheap extras. So, okay, no infants on board unless they have the right PFD! As it is now, anyone anywhere near being able to fall in the water wears a PFD, including me. Oh yeah, and anyone who's had more than two drinks who is anywhere near able to fall in the water also wears a line! ;-) Stephen |
As I mentioned in another earlier posting, I found a PFD that fits
comfortably (and correctly) on my little one. The brand name is "sea fit" purchased from west marine and was sized for infants less than 30 pounds. I mentioned I had purchased others as well but when she was a week old this one fit the best. -We had water tested them as well.- Most of the smaller ones you see do start at 30 pounds but if you look you will find the smaller types. For the smallest of babies, look for the type that has the closed back (with no flotation along the back) so that is has a wider range of adjustment. I chose to stay away from the types that only had the starps across the back. The one I use has thinner flotation in the headrest, making it more comfortable, while still doing it's job. |
Larry, I think you're missing an important point: People who take small
children on the water are advocating the most effective PFD ever used - the live, thinking, caring, responding, type AAA; an adult wearing a suitable PFD with just the child's wellbeing in mind. This type provides a level of safety no manufactured piece of cloth and floatation can ever begin to emulate. You won't find any of these on the shelf of any PFD store, nor will you find CG specs for manufacturers to follow. What you can find, if you look and listen, are experienced parents who have been taking their babies on the water for years and have developed very safe methods for protecting the lives of their offspring in most any life-threatening situation. This takes the general form of having an adult wearing a PFD in constant proximity to the child, with the child's welfare his sole responsibility in the event of a problem. Padeen |
We had both our kids on board at 6 months...would have been earlier, but
they were born after the harbour froze over. Our son was severely disabled but enjoyed sailing for the 6 years of his life, our daughter is now 7. Kids 0 - aprox 2 (before walking) easy to care for, use a car seat and ensure they don't get too much sun. Ensure they have lots of fluids and things to eat. Kids 2 - 5 (help!) They walk but don't understand the dangers. Ensure they've got a good life jacket, have someone tend them full time. Some people have used netting to help keep them contained, we used jacklines and vigilent mom. Kids above that...well, I'm still learning. I've always tried to give them something to do on the boat. Putting flemish coils in lines after we're docked, spooling up the unloaded winch after a tack, spotting navigation buoys (they're eyes are much better than mine). etc etc. Lots of snack food and lots of water. Games to play in the cabin etc. Good book called "Babies Aboard" by Lindsay Green has lots of usefull ideas and comments. Available at Amazon and I'm sure most nautical type places. Hope this helps a little... Cheers, Jeff C&C 30 "Miech" wrote in message ... We're due in June and would like to hear from people who have experience sailing with a 0-4 month old. Pros, cons, advice and warnings as well as any product suggestions to purchase are greatly appreciated. We have had fabulous feedback from our vessel-specific forum and wanted to tap the veterans here as well. (Please no stories about how your son started sailing with you at age 6. Infants only please!) Thanks so much, Jay & Michelle s/v Elixir Buzzards Bay |
Larry, read that section again on PFD's. I think you'll find a couple of
exceptions. a) if your chest is greater than 54 inches b) an infant. Infant survival time in the water is very short as they get hypothermia very very quickly. So, the best idea is not to let them get in the water. That being said, you can stay home in your house or you can live life to the fullest. Everybodies gotta die sometime, and tragedies happen...That's life, so to speak. Jeff "Larry W4CSC" wrote in message ... Stephen Trapani wrote in : Well, we're talking about defended infants, defended by good parents doing their job as best they can. No one was asking for help with unattended infants. Defended? Strapped in a carrier, strapped to the boat? "Go down with the ship" is it? Someone bragged about this in this thread. You really think the percentage of infants killed per activity is more on boats than in cars? I'm guessing cars are *way* more dangerous, eg, result in way more serious injuries and deaths per amount of participants. Hmm....millions of infants ride in cars/trucks/SUVs every day. How many ride in boats....tops....100? Another problem someone mentioned was the PFD problem. Our law says: "All boats must have at least one Type I, II, III or V personal flotation device that is U.S. Coast Guard- approved, wearable and of the proper size for each person onboard. Sizing for PFDs is based on body weight and chest size. . South Carolina law requires all children under 12 years of age to wear a U.S. Coast Guard-approved Type I, II, III or V PFD while on board a Class A (less than 16 ft. long) boat or PWC. The PFD must be fastened and of the proper size for the child." Moot point...no baby PFD, no baby on a boat. The smallest CG-approved PFD I've seen from Wally World or Waste Marine looks to be made for a kid of 3- 5? http://www.nodakoutdoors.com/valleyoutdoors25.php Here's a webpage from a North Dakota game warden who's laws are more strict than South Carolina's with some really great ideas like: "If you don't have a PFD that fits your child, or it's too hot for them to wear it, stay on shore." The boat ran aground because someone was not paying attention. The poor kid was in a carseat, not a PFD as required. Do carseats float UPRIGHT? Interesting to test....in the worst waves and wakes you boat in? The article says: "Upon arrival I found two young parents tending to a newborn baby who didn't have any type of PFD. The baby was in a car seat and thankfully all was fine, aside from the boat, which came to rest up a steep wooded incline, indicating a lack of attention while operating the vessel. I still to this day think of how haunting the memory would've been had the car seat been jolted out of the boat and into the lake. For several years I checked boats and watercraft and was continually disappointed in compliance with PFD laws, especially the one that applies to children. While only youngsters 10 and under must be wearing a Coast Guard approved PFD while in a boat, the common response was, "I couldn't find one that fits," or "it was too hot to put them in a PFD." While politely replying that the law requires youngsters to wear PFDs, I was always reminded of what could have happened if that baby in the carseat had accidentally wound up in the lake." The big boat lobby in SC has this requirement limited to only boats UNDER SIXTEEN FEET that the kid has to have a PFD on under 12: From the SCDNR rules manual: "South Carolina law requires all children under 12 years of age to wear a U.S. Coast Guard-approved Type I, II, III or V PFD while on board a Class A (less than 16 ft. long) boat or PWC. The PFD must be fastened and of the proper size for the child." If the 6-year-old who can't swim is standing on the bow of the 32' bubble boat without a PFD on, the big boat lobby says that's OK. We can't prosecute the parents, in SC, because the baby was strapped in the car seat which was secured to the port cockpit seating and went down when the boat broached or pitchpoled or flipped over in the 40' Cigarette Boat going, legally, 102 mph across the harbor. We have a long history, by the way, of not prosecuting people with money in SC.... They'd be covered if they had a baby PFD stowed away in a plastic bag in the quarter berth. http://www.stearnsinc.com/NC_Product...tegoryID=45350 18 Cheap Stearns vest for small child...I doubt the straps will keep a BABY in it. http://www.mustangsurvival.com/produ...uct.php?id=397 This one from Mustang Survival fits chests 18 to 20". How big around are little babies 5 days old? They don't look that big when they pop out of Mom. Here's an INFLATABLE! http://www.storesonline.com/site/405...uct/999-773260 Comes in a convenient airline seat storage pouch for the quarter berth. "Under 35 pounds". Does that mean 14 lbs 9 oz? That's "Under 35 pounds", isn't it? Will the baby be able to pull the ripcord? It gets dumber and dumber. The FAA did some good. I suspect the reason for this being on the market is the TSO forced airlines to change to new, improved child vests so they dumped this on the market to unload them. equipped.com has an interesting website that resulted in testing with infants to see what worked or not: http://www.equipped.com/avvests.htm#kidvest I like the idea of the Hoover FV-2000 ($185-225) which is a CAPSULE that not only protect the infant from breathing in water but isolates him from the hypothermia that's killing Mom and Dad in their life jackets. They mention some shortfalls but it's a great idea. The airlines are much more afraid of the babys' lawyers than daddy is on his boat. Let's send the CG inspectors around to all the posters with babies aboard to see if they actually DO have a baby PFD I had a hard time finding on the net, putting it on the baby to see how it fits and what his/her survival chances are and write their sorry asses up when they produce the 7-year- old's cutesy life vest with the Mickey Mouse and CG labels that have no chance of saving the poor baby.....whos head slips easily through the big hole. What's on YOUR boat, eh? |
Interesting, J&S. Not to contradict you, as I have only anecdotal
experience, but I found my kids to be more cold resistant than most adults, including me. Can you point me to some studies/ data that suggest this? Thanks Padeen |
"Padeen" wrote:
Interesting, J&S. Not to contradict you, as I have only anecdotal experience, but I found my kids to be more cold resistant than most adults, including me. Can you point me to some studies/ data that suggest this? Thanks Padeen We are talking about babies, and not kids (children). And the resistance to cold that is being referenced is hypothermia due to being submerged in cold water, not just to swimming or being out in the snow or something. I haven't read them, but here are some references # Sloan RE, Keating WR Cooling rates of young people swimming in cold water. J Appl Physiol 1973; 35:371-375 [Free Full Text] # Bar-Or O. Pediatric Sports Medicine for the Practitioner: From Physiologic Principles to Clinical Applications. New York, NY: Springer Verlag; 1983:259-299 # Bennett HJ, Wagner T, Fields A Acute hyponatremia and seizures in an infant after a swimming lesson. Pediatrics 1983; 72:125-127 [Medline] grandma Rosalie |
Thanks for doing my homework for me, Rosalie. Though it's important to be
informed about this, I hope nobody in this group finds themselves testing these various theories. I hope to have my grandkids aboard someday and will look into the references you've so kindly brought to my attention. Padeen "Rosalie B." wrote in message ... "Padeen" wrote: Interesting, J&S. Not to contradict you, as I have only anecdotal experience, but I found my kids to be more cold resistant than most adults, including me. Can you point me to some studies/ data that suggest this? Thanks Padeen We are talking about babies, and not kids (children). And the resistance to cold that is being referenced is hypothermia due to being submerged in cold water, not just to swimming or being out in the snow or something. I haven't read them, but here are some references # Sloan RE, Keating WR Cooling rates of young people swimming in cold water. J Appl Physiol 1973; 35:371-375 [Free Full Text] # Bar-Or O. Pediatric Sports Medicine for the Practitioner: From Physiologic Principles to Clinical Applications. New York, NY: Springer Verlag; 1983:259-299 # Bennett HJ, Wagner T, Fields A Acute hyponatremia and seizures in an infant after a swimming lesson. Pediatrics 1983; 72:125-127 [Medline] grandma Rosalie |
Thanks...
What was suggested was to ensure that you have enough of those Not Approved in canada square floation cushions...That way you can try to make a raft and put the infant on top. Reality tells me that if you in this situation, it's not going to be a happy ending but makes Mom feel better... Last year, a couple from our club pulled a couple of kids 14 and 16 out of the water in early May. They were attempting to canoe in 25kts of wind and it didn't work very well. They were in the water for about 15 minutes and required a trip to the hospital to recover. They're lifejacets weren't in good shape, but did keep them on the surface... apparently just long enough to be rescued. Cheers, Jeff "Rosalie B." wrote in message ... "Padeen" wrote: Interesting, J&S. Not to contradict you, as I have only anecdotal experience, but I found my kids to be more cold resistant than most adults, including me. Can you point me to some studies/ data that suggest this? Thanks Padeen We are talking about babies, and not kids (children). And the resistance to cold that is being referenced is hypothermia due to being submerged in cold water, not just to swimming or being out in the snow or something. I haven't read them, but here are some references # Sloan RE, Keating WR Cooling rates of young people swimming in cold water. J Appl Physiol 1973; 35:371-375 [Free Full Text] # Bar-Or O. Pediatric Sports Medicine for the Practitioner: From Physiologic Principles to Clinical Applications. New York, NY: Springer Verlag; 1983:259-299 # Bennett HJ, Wagner T, Fields A Acute hyponatremia and seizures in an infant after a swimming lesson. Pediatrics 1983; 72:125-127 [Medline] grandma Rosalie |
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