First-Time Buyers Forum
 

I do not know if this is a useless idea, as it may result in the 'blind
leading the blind', but it would be interesting to have a conversation
with those who are planning to buy your first sailboat within the next
year or so. If you are like me, you have hit the forums, have been
asking questions of those who have already taken a number of plunges,
and generally have stayed up too late so as to explore and obsess over
reading material.
I am planning a trip to Annapolis this weekend. I do not have any
intentions other than to wonder around. Perhaps I will run into a
broker that I feel is authentic. Perhaps I'll be able to narrow-down
what seems to be an ever-expanding list.
I, for example, am looking for a solid hull boat large enough for a
few adults, but capable of single-handling. I tend to favor boats like
the Bristol 35.5, the Tartan 33 & 37, the older Wausquiez's, older
Pacific Seacrafts (can't even really afford the older ones, the Ericson
38 and the First series Beneteaus. I will do most of my sailing in the
lighter airs of the upper Chesapeake, but want a boat that I will feel
comfortable in going offshore (probably north) for a number of weeks.
Though I am an endurance athlete into adreneline-junky sports, I have
little desire to circumnavigate (my family would not let me), but for
my sixtieth birthday (7 years hence), I would love to sail across the
Atlantic and back.
What are you experiencing. What pitfalls and hassles are you
encountering? I generally dislike haggling and sales-people. What can I
expect? Any thoughts on these businesses in the Annapolis area;
Rouguewaves, Crusader, Bristol, AYS ? Brian, southeastern PA

On 24 Mar 2005 21:04:04 -0600, Dave wrote:

On 24 Mar 2005 16:44:52 -0800, said:

Though I am an endurance athlete into adreneline-junky sports, I have
little desire to circumnavigate (my family would not let me), but for
my sixtieth birthday (7 years hence), I would love to sail across the
Atlantic and back.

A suggestion. Get the boat you need now for the conditions you'll be sailing
in now. Given what you've said, I think you will be far happier for now if
your boat moves decently in light air, and when the time comes when you want
to range far afield get a boat designed for that purpose. There just isn't
that much of a learning curve in moving from one to another.

I'll second that recommendation and add to it. Try an older boat in
the 26-28 foot range and invest the rest of your cash against the day
you decide you want something bigger for bigger adventures. There are
a lot of them going very cheaply because people seem to have decided
that anything under 30 is *small*.

Also, ask yourself if you are looking for something that *is* fast, or
something that *feels* fast. My 35 is faster than my 26 was by about a
minute a mile, but the 26 often felt faster, and I could singlehand it
closer to the edge than I can with my 35.

Ryk

Contact Bill Morrow at Adventure Yachts. He will treat you right!

Doug

wrote in message
ps.com...
I do not know if this is a useless idea, as it may result in the 'blind
leading the blind', but it would be interesting to have a conversation
with those who are planning to buy your first sailboat within the next
year or so. If you are like me, you have hit the forums, have been
asking questions of those who have already taken a number of plunges,
and generally have stayed up too late so as to explore and obsess over
reading material.
I am planning a trip to Annapolis this weekend. I do not have any
intentions other than to wonder around. Perhaps I will run into a
broker that I feel is authentic. Perhaps I'll be able to narrow-down
what seems to be an ever-expanding list.
I, for example, am looking for a solid hull boat large enough for a
few adults, but capable of single-handling. I tend to favor boats like
the Bristol 35.5, the Tartan 33 & 37, the older Wausquiez's, older
Pacific Seacrafts (can't even really afford the older ones, the Ericson
38 and the First series Beneteaus. I will do most of my sailing in the
lighter airs of the upper Chesapeake, but want a boat that I will feel
comfortable in going offshore (probably north) for a number of weeks.
Though I am an endurance athlete into adreneline-junky sports, I have
little desire to circumnavigate (my family would not let me), but for
my sixtieth birthday (7 years hence), I would love to sail across the
Atlantic and back.
What are you experiencing. What pitfalls and hassles are you
encountering? I generally dislike haggling and sales-people. What can I
expect? Any thoughts on these businesses in the Annapolis area;
Rouguewaves, Crusader, Bristol, AYS ? Brian, southeastern PA

Send me a private email. I may have something you might like.

Doug
s/v Callista (Pan Oceanic 43 aka Pacific Seacraft)

wrote in message
ps.com...
I do not know if this is a useless idea, as it may result in the 'blind
leading the blind', but it would be interesting to have a conversation
with those who are planning to buy your first sailboat within the next
year or so. If you are like me, you have hit the forums, have been
asking questions of those who have already taken a number of plunges,
and generally have stayed up too late so as to explore and obsess over
reading material.
I am planning a trip to Annapolis this weekend. I do not have any
intentions other than to wonder around. Perhaps I will run into a
broker that I feel is authentic. Perhaps I'll be able to narrow-down
what seems to be an ever-expanding list.
I, for example, am looking for a solid hull boat large enough for a
few adults, but capable of single-handling. I tend to favor boats like
the Bristol 35.5, the Tartan 33 & 37, the older Wausquiez's, older
Pacific Seacrafts (can't even really afford the older ones, the Ericson
38 and the First series Beneteaus. I will do most of my sailing in the
lighter airs of the upper Chesapeake, but want a boat that I will feel
comfortable in going offshore (probably north) for a number of weeks.
Though I am an endurance athlete into adreneline-junky sports, I have
little desire to circumnavigate (my family would not let me), but for
my sixtieth birthday (7 years hence), I would love to sail across the
Atlantic and back.
What are you experiencing. What pitfalls and hassles are you
encountering? I generally dislike haggling and sales-people. What can I
expect? Any thoughts on these businesses in the Annapolis area;
Rouguewaves, Crusader, Bristol, AYS ? Brian, southeastern PA

On Mon, 28 Mar 2005 12:59:36 -0500, Ryk
wrote:

/// ask yourself if you are looking for something that *is* fast, or
something that *feels* fast. My 35 is faster than my 26 was by about a
minute a mile, but the 26 often felt faster, and I could singlehand it
closer to the edge than I can with my 35.

Ryk

Wow! A vessel that feels faster than another that goes 60 MPH
faster!

Way to go...

:-)

Brian Whatcott Altus, OK

On Tue, 29 Mar 2005 00:49:52 GMT, Brian Whatcott
wrote:

On Mon, 28 Mar 2005 12:59:36 -0500, Ryk
wrote:

/// ask yourself if you are looking for something that *is* fast, or
something that *feels* fast. My 35 is faster than my 26 was by about a
minute a mile, but the 26 often felt faster, and I could singlehand it
closer to the edge than I can with my 35.

Ryk

Wow! A vessel that feels faster than another that goes 60 MPH
faster!

60 mph is a mile a minute. 60 PHRF points is a minute a mile or the
difference between 6 knots (10 minutes a mile) and about 5.5 knots (11
minutes a mile). It's the same sort of thing as a sports car feeling
faster at 63 mph on a mountain road than a bus does at 70 mph on the
autobahn.

Ryk

On Mon, 28 Mar 2005 22:24:46 -0500, Ryk
wrote:

On Tue, 29 Mar 2005 00:49:52 GMT, Brian Whatcott
wrote:

On Mon, 28 Mar 2005 12:59:36 -0500, Ryk
wrote:

/// ask yourself if you are looking for something that *is* fast, or
something that *feels* fast. My 35 is faster than my 26 was by about a
minute a mile, but the 26 often felt faster, and I could singlehand it
closer to the edge than I can with my 35.

Ryk

Wow! A vessel that feels faster than another that goes 60 MPH
faster!

60 mph is a mile a minute. 60 PHRF points is a minute a mile or the
difference between 6 knots (10 minutes a mile) and about 5.5 knots (11
minutes a mile). It's the same sort of thing as a sports car feeling
faster at 63 mph on a mountain road than a bus does at 70 mph on the
autobahn.

Ryk


Thanks for illustrating this method:
so 61 minutes a mile vs 60 min a mile is a 2% difference at 1 kt
31 vs 30 min a mile is a 3% difference at 2 kt
21 vs 20 minutes a mile is a 5% diff 3 kt
11 vs 10 min/ml = 10% diff at 6kt
6 min vs 5 min is 20%diff at 10 kt
2 min vs 1 min = 100% diff at 30 kt

How interesting!

Brian Whatcott wrote:
snip

troll or pedant?
you be the judge

*plonk*

Disregarding everything other than brokers, I can't recommend Frank Gary at
Bristol Yachts highly enough.

He is my concept of a professional broker and I only wish that he'd been in
FTL and I'd been using his services there when I was looking.

Other brokers in the area seem to agree (or at least the
"Broker of the year" plaques on his wall would suggest so). Give him a call
http://www.bristolyachts.com/crew.html 1-800-610-5300


L8R

Skip

--
Morgan 461 #2
SV Flying Pig
http://tinyurl.com/384p2

"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you
didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail
away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore.
Dream. Discover." - Mark Twain
wrote in message
ps.com...
I do not know if this is a useless idea, as it may result in the 'blind
leading the blind', but it would be interesting to have a conversation
with those who are planning to buy your first sailboat within the next
year or so. If you are like me, you have hit the forums, have been
asking questions of those who have already taken a number of plunges,
and generally have stayed up too late so as to explore and obsess over
reading material.
I am planning a trip to Annapolis this weekend. I do not have any
intentions other than to wonder around. Perhaps I will run into a
broker that I feel is authentic. Perhaps I'll be able to narrow-down
what seems to be an ever-expanding list.
I, for example, am looking for a solid hull boat large enough for a
few adults, but capable of single-handling. I tend to favor boats like
the Bristol 35.5, the Tartan 33 & 37, the older Wausquiez's, older
Pacific Seacrafts (can't even really afford the older ones, the Ericson
38 and the First series Beneteaus. I will do most of my sailing in the
lighter airs of the upper Chesapeake, but want a boat that I will feel
comfortable in going offshore (probably north) for a number of weeks.
Though I am an endurance athlete into adreneline-junky sports, I have
little desire to circumnavigate (my family would not let me), but for
my sixtieth birthday (7 years hence), I would love to sail across the
Atlantic and back.
What are you experiencing. What pitfalls and hassles are you
encountering? I generally dislike haggling and sales-people. What can I
expect? Any thoughts on these businesses in the Annapolis area;
Rouguewaves, Crusader, Bristol, AYS ? Brian, southeastern PA

Yesterday I drove down to Annapolis and met Frank Gary at Bristol
Yachts. I told him I was at step one of the buying process and that I
may not be buying until the Fall. We spent over 90 minutes together
talking about what I am looking for. Granted, I also visited Bristol
because the Bristol 31.1 and 35.5 are on my short list. Frank drove me
to see a 31.1. A bit tight inside - no quarter-birth. This boat is now
off my list, as it is almost as expensive as an Island Packet 31, which
seems to have more room than many 34' boats. Interior space is not the
leading variable driving my choice, but the 31.1 felt a bit too
cramped.I subsequently crossed off my list the smaller Pacific
Seacraft, which is similar to the Bristol.
I want to say that I appreciated your long discussion pertaining to
your boat selection. If one is shopping in the mid-Atlantic states
there are boats spread out all over the place and finding the right
broker seems to be essential. Many of the issues you presented, I now
confront. Yesterday: 2 hour drive each way; 3 hours total in Annapolis;
saw one boat. But it was a valuable trip. I can at least cross off an
option.
As a 'newbie', I can see why Beneteau et. al do so well. Man those
interiors, given the same LOA, are spacious. But then I pinch myself
and say. No, in all likelihood it's going to be just me single-handing
this thing most of the time. Perhaps twice a month my wife and two
teenagers will be with me. I want a boat that can take some knocks with
the deck and that I will feel comfortable with in a squall or a bumpy
ride up or down the coast. Though this is my first boat (have been club
sailing 23'), I am not interested in buying my 'first boat'. That is,
given my age, I am buying the boat that I think I will want 5 years
from now. I know of the adage; one always buys the wrong boat the first
time. But I know myself. I am a master's level athlete who has learned
many new 'crafts' over the last 20 years (including kyak racing), so I
hope to prove the exception to this rule. Some boats on my list (some
may go for more than my 70k ceiling) - Yes, they differ quite a bit on
LOA, though less on LWL.
-bristol channel cutter (but too $$$, even for mid-80's
model)
-IP 29/31
-Wauquiez 33/35 (if can find CB - unlikely)
-Bristol 35.5 (less open space and quite heavy, thogh not as
'wet' as the IP)
-Pearson 34-36 (good value)
I may also conclude that all of the above are just too damn
heavy for the Chesapeake, where 90% of my sailing time will be spent.
On another list is:
-Tartan33/35 (perhaps even 37) - woory about hull, etc.
-Beneteau First in the 34-35' range - worry about the side of
the boat after touching the dock in a way it does not like to be
touched
-Sabre 32-34
-C&C Landfall 35 worry about hull, etc.
-Ericson 32-35