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ssb
Thinking of ssb and ham for a 32' sailboat. Do the whip type antennas make
a satisfactory setup? G |
I have an 'Outbacker' on my 32' Bristol and I am happy with it. Only
problem is having to run to the stern to change the tap for the band. They make a marine version that will do both Ham and marine bands. On Wed, 23 Mar 2005 16:36:08 GMT, "Gordon" wrote: Thinking of ssb and ham for a 32' sailboat. Do the whip type antennas make a satisfactory setup? G Jeannette aa6jh Bristol 32, San Francisco http://www.eblw.com/contepartiro/contepartiro.html |
"Gordon" wrote in
: Thinking of ssb and ham for a 32' sailboat. Do the whip type antennas make a satisfactory setup? G How long is your backstay? It's a far better antenna than any short whip, especially on the lower frequency HF bands, because more of the RF waveform fits on it than on the short whip. |
On 2005-03-24 06:43:43 +1100, Larry W4CSC said:
"Gordon" wrote in : Thinking of ssb and ham for a 32' sailboat. Do the whip type antennas make a satisfactory setup? G How long is your backstay? It's a far better antenna than any short whip, especially on the lower frequency HF bands, because more of the RF waveform fits on it than on the short whip. However, when the 'fit really hits the shan' and the stick comes down a backstay is really pretty useless. Thats why a separate HF antenna independent from the rigging is a much better bet for installation on an ocean going yacht. PS: it is also a requirement for Ocean Racing here in Australia too. -- Regards, John Proctor VK3JP, VKV6789 S/V Chagall |
That's one of the reason I like the Outbacker. Besides it's made in
Oz... Jeannette However, when the 'fit really hits the shan' and the stick comes down a backstay is really pretty useless. Thats why a separate HF antenna independent from the rigging is a much better bet for installation on an ocean going yacht. PS: it is also a requirement for Ocean Racing here in Australia too. Jeannette aa6jh Bristol 32, San Francisco http://www.eblw.com/contepartiro/contepartiro.html |
Absolutely! I run a 23' Shakespeare whip with excellent results. It works
better than the insulated backstay I had on my old C&C 36. he whip came with the boat and my first reaction was to insulate the backstay. But the whip works so well that I found other things to spend the money on. Doug, k3qt s/v Callista "Gordon" wrote in message ... Thinking of ssb and ham for a 32' sailboat. Do the whip type antennas make a satisfactory setup? G |
jeannette wrote in
: That's one of the reason I like the Outbacker. Besides it's made in Oz... Jeannette I've never been impressed by the Outbackers, nothing but hookup wire wrapped around a fiberglass rod with plastic taps in the continuously loaded coil whip. It's too short for a good radiation pattern below 20 meters with way too much loading and you can't put any real RF power to it which will destroy the hookup wire it's made of. "Homebrew" comes to mind under the shrink wrap exterior. Some have commented they didn't like having to go out to change the taps. I'm curious how they keep the salt out of the little holes from corroding it all up. The longest screwdriver antennas would make a MUCH more efficient HF tunable antenna for all the bands as they have continuous coverage if we could figure out how to keep from drowning their coils in seawater.... http://www.eham.net/reviews/detail/1...90cf2ed1290b68 d5d1d http://home.earthlink.net/~jimlux/ra...crewdriver.htm http://www.dxengineering.com/Product...cID=8&DeptID=2 http://www.n2vz.com/ automatic control of screwdriver antennas....autotuner! http://www.kj7u.com/ KJ7U's screwdriver with the rubber boot looks very promising for marine use.... http://www.wb0w.com/tarheel/tarheel.htm Tarheel says theirs is for marine use. The key to all these antennas is they use a LARGE, EFFICIENT, center-loaded coil with a continuous tap that allows you, or an autotuner, to put the tuning of this antenna EXACTLY on your frequency, not "close enough" like an outbacker. ANY frequency as the coil is continously tuned, not banded. The idea of tuning by remote control, from the nav station for instance, is much nicer than having to go out to the outbacker in the weather on the stern to fool around with that stupid tap..... The longer the whip on top of it...the better because it reduces the amount of loading coil necessary to tune it..... |
On 2005-03-24 15:09:27 +1100, Larry W4CSC said:
jeannette wrote in : That's one of the reason I like the Outbacker. Besides it's made in Oz... Jeannette I've never been impressed by the Outbackers, nothing but hookup wire wrapped around a fiberglass rod with plastic taps in the continuously loaded coil whip. It's too short for a good radiation pattern below 20 meters with way too much loading and you can't put any real RF power to it which will destroy the hookup wire it's made of. "Homebrew" comes to mind under the shrink wrap exterior. Some have commented they didn't like having to go out to change the taps. I'm curious how they keep the salt out of the little holes from corroding it all up. The longest screwdriver antennas would make a MUCH more efficient HF tunable antenna for all the bands as they have continuous coverage if we could figure out how to keep from drowning their coils in seawater.... http://www.eham.net/reviews/detail/1...90cf2ed1290b68 d5d1d http://home.earthlink.net/~jimlux/ra...crewdriver.htm http://www.dxengineering.com/Product...cID=8&DeptID=2 http://www.n2vz.com/ automatic control of screwdriver antennas....autotuner! http://www.kj7u.com/ KJ7U's screwdriver with the rubber boot looks very promising for marine use.... http://www.wb0w.com/tarheel/tarheel.htm Tarheel says theirs is for marine use. The key to all these antennas is they use a LARGE, EFFICIENT, center-loaded coil with a continuous tap that allows you, or an autotuner, to put the tuning of this antenna EXACTLY on your frequency, not "close enough" like an outbacker. ANY frequency as the coil is continously tuned, not banded. The idea of tuning by remote control, from the nav station for instance, is much nicer than having to go out to the outbacker in the weather on the stern to fool around with that stupid tap..... The longer the whip on top of it...the better because it reduces the amount of loading coil necessary to tune it..... Don't knock it til you try it! I would agree that the taps present a problem in the maritime environment (possibly) but many hams down under use the outbacker and swear by them. So unless you have first hand experience using them your feelings count for nothing! Too many people make judgements about products without trying them! No first hand experience value of opinion = 0! -- Regards, John Proctor VK3JP, VKV6789 S/V Chagall |
Hello Doug,
Interesting to hear of your success with the 23' whip. I wonder how you have mounted it. Do you use the standard Shakespeare mount at the base with no intermediate supports? I've always been concerned that the "whipping" in a swell would really stress the mounting. Thanks for your thoughts. Chuck Doug Dotson wrote: Absolutely! I run a 23' Shakespeare whip with excellent results. It works better than the insulated backstay I had on my old C&C 36. he whip came with the boat and my first reaction was to insulate the backstay. But the whip works so well that I found other things to spend the money on. Doug, k3qt s/v Callista "Gordon" wrote in message ... Thinking of ssb and ham for a 32' sailboat. Do the whip type antennas make a satisfactory setup? G |
"chuck" wrote in message ... Hello Doug, Interesting to hear of your success with the 23' whip. I wonder how you have mounted it. Do you use the standard Shakespeare mount at the base with no intermediate supports? It is mounted with the base fixed to the transome. The an intermedeate mount is on the end of the radar arch which gives it support about 6 feet up. I've always been concerned that the "whipping" in a swell would really stress the mounting. We've been bounced around pretty good offshore and there are no signs of problems. I'm going to replace the upper mount just because the UV has deteriorated it. Thanks for your thoughts. Chuck Doug Dotson wrote: Absolutely! I run a 23' Shakespeare whip with excellent results. It works better than the insulated backstay I had on my old C&C 36. he whip came with the boat and my first reaction was to insulate the backstay. But the whip works so well that I found other things to spend the money on. Doug, k3qt s/v Callista "Gordon" wrote in message ... Thinking of ssb and ham for a 32' sailboat. Do the whip type antennas make a satisfactory setup? G |
I have run both the outbacker and Large Shakespeare whip on 20 meters
marine. The outbacker was a test as a backup on a boat with a back stay antenna . Neither antenna is in the same class as a backstay. The outbacker was better than the whip...though the boat with the whip may well have had ground problems. Switching the outbacker and the backstay you could here the stations vanish. It was still possible to work the states from off Baja but you needed somebody on the state end with real good equipment. After playing controller on Pac Sea Net for a few years the boats that get out well almost exclusively have backstay antennas. Jim Donohue "John Proctor" wrote in message news:2005032420245216807%lost@nowhereorg... On 2005-03-24 15:09:27 +1100, Larry W4CSC said: jeannette wrote in : That's one of the reason I like the Outbacker. Besides it's made in Oz... Jeannette I've never been impressed by the Outbackers, nothing but hookup wire wrapped around a fiberglass rod with plastic taps in the continuously loaded coil whip. It's too short for a good radiation pattern below 20 meters with way too much loading and you can't put any real RF power to it which will destroy the hookup wire it's made of. "Homebrew" comes to mind under the shrink wrap exterior. Some have commented they didn't like having to go out to change the taps. I'm curious how they keep the salt out of the little holes from corroding it all up. The longest screwdriver antennas would make a MUCH more efficient HF tunable antenna for all the bands as they have continuous coverage if we could figure out how to keep from drowning their coils in seawater.... http://www.eham.net/reviews/detail/1...90cf2ed1290b68 d5d1d http://home.earthlink.net/~jimlux/ra...crewdriver.htm http://www.dxengineering.com/Product...cID=8&DeptID=2 http://www.n2vz.com/ automatic control of screwdriver antennas....autotuner! http://www.kj7u.com/ KJ7U's screwdriver with the rubber boot looks very promising for marine use.... http://www.wb0w.com/tarheel/tarheel.htm Tarheel says theirs is for marine use. The key to all these antennas is they use a LARGE, EFFICIENT, center-loaded coil with a continuous tap that allows you, or an autotuner, to put the tuning of this antenna EXACTLY on your frequency, not "close enough" like an outbacker. ANY frequency as the coil is continously tuned, not banded. The idea of tuning by remote control, from the nav station for instance, is much nicer than having to go out to the outbacker in the weather on the stern to fool around with that stupid tap..... The longer the whip on top of it...the better because it reduces the amount of loading coil necessary to tune it..... Don't knock it til you try it! I would agree that the taps present a problem in the maritime environment (possibly) but many hams down under use the outbacker and swear by them. So unless you have first hand experience using them your feelings count for nothing! Too many people make judgements about products without trying them! No first hand experience value of opinion = 0! -- Regards, John Proctor VK3JP, VKV6789 S/V Chagall |
"Jim Donohue" wrote in
news:FkE0e.132$ZV5.56@fed1read05: After playing controller on Pac Sea Net for a few years the boats that get out well almost exclusively have backstay antennas. Jim Donohue There's a new QSL on Lionheart's nav station. Braggin' rights...(c; Japan from Charleston on 20 meters, 14.208 Mhz. He was runnin' 100W. I was running 150W. Backstay tuned with Icom AT-130 is 55' to the insulator. Next time the mast is serviced, two new insulators are going to be installed, one on each end of the triattic and a new cable installed from the bottom of the top backstay insulator to the forward end of the triattic, making it even longer with a horizontal top component, more like a ship. Longer is better, especially below 10 Mhz. I'd take my modified, 650 watt TenTec Hercules II solid state linear on trips in the boat, but the tuner is maxed out. POWER is our FRIEND.... It only draws 120A at 650W keydown on RTTY...(c; |
"Larry W4CSC" wrote in message ... "Jim Donohue" wrote in news:FkE0e.132$ZV5.56@fed1read05: After playing controller on Pac Sea Net for a few years the boats that get out well almost exclusively have backstay antennas. Jim Donohue There's a new QSL on Lionheart's nav station. Braggin' rights...(c; Japan from Charleston on 20 meters, 14.208 Mhz. He was runnin' 100W. I was running 150W. Backstay tuned with Icom AT-130 is 55' to the insulator. Big deal. I have worked Australia and the south pacific on 20M with my 23' whip. Next time the mast is serviced, two new insulators are going to be installed, one on each end of the triattic and a new cable installed from the bottom of the top backstay insulator to the forward end of the triattic, making it even longer with a horizontal top component, more like a ship. Longer is better, especially below 10 Mhz. I'd take my modified, 650 watt TenTec Hercules II solid state linear on trips in the boat, but the tuner is maxed out. POWER is our FRIEND.... It only draws 120A at 650W keydown on RTTY...(c; |
"Larry W4CSC" wrote
I'd take my modified, 650 watt TenTec Hercules II solid state linear on trips in the boat, but the tuner is maxed out. POWER is our FRIEND.... Then why QRP? :-) |
It is consistency that matters. In general successful net operators
generally use beams, power and elevation. Even at that there comes the day when you are still shut out. The nets work because they have multiple operators thousands of miles apart. You need to be able to make contact when you want or need to. Not when conditions are perfect. I can often work Japan when conditions are right..but what I really want is to work the S. Pacific well almost every night. Power is over-rated. You have to hear the other station. Does no good to only be heard. Whips are relatively effective on the large ships...but they have the wonderful ground systems. Outbackers and whips are simply compromises...nothing works like length. Jim Donohue "Larry W4CSC" wrote in message ... "Jim Donohue" wrote in news:FkE0e.132$ZV5.56@fed1read05: After playing controller on Pac Sea Net for a few years the boats that get out well almost exclusively have backstay antennas. Jim Donohue There's a new QSL on Lionheart's nav station. Braggin' rights...(c; Japan from Charleston on 20 meters, 14.208 Mhz. He was runnin' 100W. I was running 150W. Backstay tuned with Icom AT-130 is 55' to the insulator. Next time the mast is serviced, two new insulators are going to be installed, one on each end of the triattic and a new cable installed from the bottom of the top backstay insulator to the forward end of the triattic, making it even longer with a horizontal top component, more like a ship. Longer is better, especially below 10 Mhz. I'd take my modified, 650 watt TenTec Hercules II solid state linear on trips in the boat, but the tuner is maxed out. POWER is our FRIEND.... It only draws 120A at 650W keydown on RTTY...(c; |
Larry W4CSC wrote:
jeannette wrote in : That's one of the reason I like the Outbacker. Besides it's made in Oz... Jeannette I've never been impressed by the Outbackers, nothing but hookup wire wrapped around a fiberglass rod with plastic taps in the continuously loaded coil whip. It's too short for a good radiation pattern below 20 meters with way too much loading and you can't put any real RF power to it which will destroy the hookup wire it's made of. "Homebrew" comes to mind under the shrink wrap exterior. Short feeler to mine, Chuukker. That and a short counterpoise. Trail an insulated wire in a hose for a "ground". Nichrome toaster wire could take more heat, huh? It also unloads your Tx automatically if the ae is too short. Some have commented they didn't like having to go out to change the taps. I'm curious how they keep the salt out of the little holes from corroding it all up. Beeswax, Billy. Lots of beeswax. Dunk the whole thing twice. A hot iron will work as a screwdriver right through it. The longest screwdriver antennas would make a MUCH more efficient HF tunable antenna for all the bands as they have continuous coverage if we could figure out how to keep from drowning their coils in seawater.... Beeswax, I say! http://www.eham.net/reviews/detail/1...90cf2ed1290b68 d5d1d http://home.earthlink.net/~jimlux/ra...crewdriver.htm http://www.dxengineering.com/Product...cID=8&DeptID=2 http://www.n2vz.com/ automatic control of screwdriver antennas....autotuner! http://www.kj7u.com/ KJ7U's screwdriver with the rubber boot looks very promising for marine use.... http://www.wb0w.com/tarheel/tarheel.htm Tarheel says theirs is for marine use. The key to all these antennas is they use a LARGE, EFFICIENT, center-loaded coil with a continuous tap that allows you, or an autotuner, to put the tuning of this antenna stump EXACTLY on your frequency, not "close enough" like an outbacker. ANY frequency as the coil is continously tuned, not banded. The idea of tuning by remote control, from the nav station for instance, is much nicer than having to go out to the outbacker in the weather on the stern to fool around with that stupid tap..... Why is that? Why not change the tap in the cabin? The wire from the autotuner is part of the radiating element array. The other end, the floating counterpoise, could go through the side and trail behind. One might think the forestay a better choise for an antenna element. The longer the whip on top of it...the better because it reduces the amount of loading coil necessary to tune it..... In radio, as with hot rods, there is no substitute for linear inches, displaced cubewise. Changing the length of the trailed element will do some of the same, could go auto with an electrolux type reel retractor and a sliding contact, or a fish tape and a roller drive contactor / retractor wheel. The sliding contacts are weak spots in all autotuners, especially if you need a kilowatt to do your toeast. (Sorry, I found it innocent, and I'm not changing it. -tk) A directional rig and polar chart can do the job a lot cheaper, and is easier to fix. Besides, you got one already, can't get rid of it, might as well learn to drive it. Turn the boat to pass your traffic. A mechanical adjustment crank and turns counter could keep a channel open if the auto tuner servo should conk out. A reference table, previously tabulated, will enable continued radio service at distant ranges and directions. Why don't GPSs provide a wordwide notices text channel? You could set a contact code to capture the text that's intended for "An english sailboat" channel. Kinda like one half of a newsgroup service. Terry K |
In article kuX0e.244$ZV5.197@fed1read05,
"Jim Donohue" wrote: It is consistency that matters. In general successful net operators generally use beams, power and elevation. Even at that there comes the day when you are still shut out. The nets work because they have multiple operators thousands of miles apart. You need to be able to make contact when you want or need to. Not when conditions are perfect. I can often work Japan when conditions are right..but what I really want is to work the S. Pacific well almost every night. Power is over-rated. You have to hear the other station. Does no good to only be heard. Whips are relatively effective on the large ships...but they have the wonderful ground systems. Outbackers and whips are simply compromises...nothing works like length. Jim Donohue Back in the day....all the West Coast Marine Electronics Techs used to show the Big Bucks Yatch'it Owners that their very cool, shiney, new, SSB Radio worked so good that they could even get KMI (Pt. Reyes, CA) on 12 Mhz, anytime day, or night, with 150Watts....... Big deal, KMI had Phased Rhombics, Multi-Kw Transmitters, and at the time. the quietest Receiving Location in the Eastern Pacific. It didn't mean squat, as far as how good the boat installation was. I have worked KMI from the test bench, and the transceiver on a Bird Dummy Load. All it takes is for the band to be really open, but if the band is closed it takes a REALLY GOOD Antenna and RF GROUND System to do any comunicating at all. Any compromise on RF Ground, and Antenna is going to effect the communications on poor band days...........the more compromised the system is, the worse the communicating is going to be...... Bruce in alaska -- add a 2 before @ |
Larry prefers brute force over skill.
"Vito" wrote in message ... "Larry W4CSC" wrote I'd take my modified, 650 watt TenTec Hercules II solid state linear on trips in the boat, but the tuner is maxed out. POWER is our FRIEND.... Then why QRP? :-) |
"Vito" wrote in
: Then why QRP? :-) They're only L-16 batteries....(c; |
"Doug Dotson" dougdotson@NOSPAMcablespeedNOSPAMcom wrote in
: Larry prefers brute force over skill. It's why BBC doesn't run 100 watts.... |
"Jim Donohue" wrote in
news:kuX0e.244$ZV5.197@fed1read05: Power is over-rated. You have to hear the other station. Does no good to only be heard. Ah, but when BOTH stations have power.....ahhhh.... Biggest linear I ever owned was a homebrew pair of 4-1000A tetrodes with graphite plates on RTTY. Hmm....6000V at 950ma....That's about a kilowatt, ain't it?....Ah fergit... |
Terry Spragg wrote in news:RtSdnZBYQIYn-
: Beeswax, I say! Wonder why all the world's militarys don't run these amazing Outbacker home-made-lookin' antennas? Hell, I'm amazed Radio Moscow isn't using one! |
On 2005-03-26 14:36:18 +1100, Larry W4CSC said:
Terry Spragg wrote in news:RtSdnZBYQIYn- : Beeswax, I say! Wonder why all the world's militarys don't run these amazing Outbacker home-made-lookin' antennas? Hell, I'm amazed Radio Moscow isn't using one! Isn't it amazing. If you can't refute based upon actual on air experience then just ridicule it! Larry, I expected better from a licensed amateur. After all we amateurs have been proving things that shouldn't work do for a long time. In the end I guess you will be judged by your utterences. So keep the mouth flapping. -- Regards, John Proctor VK3JP, VKV6789 S/V Chagall |
John Proctor wrote in
news:2005032617173316807%lost@nowhereorg: Larry, I expected better from a licensed amateur. After all we amateurs have been proving things that shouldn't work do for a long time. In the end I guess you will be judged by your utterences. So keep the mouth flapping. -- Regards, John Proctor VK3JP, VKV6789 S/V Chagall The point is, national pride aside, the Outbacker is still a bunch of hookup wire wrapped around a fiberglass rod with taps imbedded into the shrink tubing that covers the hookup wire. Continuously loaded antennas are very inefficient and produce far less E field than antennas without continuous loading. The shorter ANY antenna is less than 1/4 wavelength, the less and less it radiates.....simple fact..... |
On 2005-03-27 00:46:39 +1100, Larry W4CSC said:
John Proctor wrote in news:2005032617173316807%lost@nowhereorg: Larry, I expected better from a licensed amateur. After all we amateurs have been proving things that shouldn't work do for a long time. In the end I guess you will be judged by your utterences. So keep the mouth flapping. -- Regards, John Proctor VK3JP, VKV6789 S/V Chagall The point is, national pride aside, the Outbacker is still a bunch of hookup wire wrapped around a fiberglass rod with taps imbedded into the shrink tubing that covers the hookup wire. Continuously loaded antennas are very inefficient and produce far less E field than antennas without continuous loading. The shorter ANY antenna is less than 1/4 wavelength, the less and less it radiates.....simple fact..... Thats true. However the discussion has been about a collection of suboptimal antennas. Too short for lower SSB spectrum use. Backstays, 23' whips and outbacker's are all too short for efficient use on low HF. The original question asked was what is the best approach. Best in this case (marine HF) must absolutely include survivability as a marine SSB HF rig is predominantly a saftey item. A backstay or any other rigging based structure as I pointed out is inherently risky and therefore unacceptable to bodies such as ocean racing organisations. The screwdriver and antennas of similar design are effective in the land mobile service downunder. The number of 4WD vehicles with Codans on and in them proves that but again they are totally unsuited to the marine envirnment. Codan doesn't even try to make a marinised adjustable antenna that I know of. BTW if you want to see inefficient antennas look to the Hams that do 160M mobile. There is a hiding to nowhere as far as efficiency is concerned but they are a hardy band of operators! -- Regards, John Proctor VK3JP, VKV6789 S/V Chagall |
John -
While the listed antenna are all sub-optimal on the lower bands the difference in performance is marked if they are loaded reasonably well. I doubt that the requirements of off shore racers should in any way influence what cruiser do. Cruisers simply don't lose rigs. That is a more due to the propensity of the racer to go all out even to the risk of the rig. Every rational cruiser avoids stressing his rig...it just makes life to difficult. Note that jury rigged antennas or carrying some spare gizmo still provide lots of opportunity for a cruiser to get out when needed even after an unexpected disaster. . It has been my experience that emergency use of the SSB is reasonably common but that the cause is generally not a severely damaged boat. Mostly its stuff like getting something to work or dealing with a medical problem. Even on occassion have seen starters rebuilt at sea with expert advice from a ham net. Jim Donohue KO6MH amateur extra "John Proctor" wrote in message news:2005032704261916807%lost@nowhereorg... On 2005-03-27 00:46:39 +1100, Larry W4CSC said: John Proctor wrote in news:2005032617173316807%lost@nowhereorg: Larry, I expected better from a licensed amateur. After all we amateurs have been proving things that shouldn't work do for a long time. In the end I guess you will be judged by your utterences. So keep the mouth flapping. -- Regards, John Proctor VK3JP, VKV6789 S/V Chagall The point is, national pride aside, the Outbacker is still a bunch of hookup wire wrapped around a fiberglass rod with taps imbedded into the shrink tubing that covers the hookup wire. Continuously loaded antennas are very inefficient and produce far less E field than antennas without continuous loading. The shorter ANY antenna is less than 1/4 wavelength, the less and less it radiates.....simple fact..... Thats true. However the discussion has been about a collection of suboptimal antennas. Too short for lower SSB spectrum use. Backstays, 23' whips and outbacker's are all too short for efficient use on low HF. The original question asked was what is the best approach. Best in this case (marine HF) must absolutely include survivability as a marine SSB HF rig is predominantly a saftey item. A backstay or any other rigging based structure as I pointed out is inherently risky and therefore unacceptable to bodies such as ocean racing organisations. The screwdriver and antennas of similar design are effective in the land mobile service downunder. The number of 4WD vehicles with Codans on and in them proves that but again they are totally unsuited to the marine envirnment. Codan doesn't even try to make a marinised adjustable antenna that I know of. BTW if you want to see inefficient antennas look to the Hams that do 160M mobile. There is a hiding to nowhere as far as efficiency is concerned but they are a hardy band of operators! -- Regards, John Proctor VK3JP, VKV6789 S/V Chagall |
On 2005-03-27 07:06:10 +1000, "Jim Donohue" said:
John - While the listed antenna are all sub-optimal on the lower bands the difference in performance is marked if they are loaded reasonably well. I doubt that the requirements of off shore racers should in any way influence what cruiser do. Cruisers simply don't lose rigs. That is a more due to the propensity of the racer to go all out even to the risk of the rig. Every rational cruiser avoids stressing his rig...it just makes life to difficult. Note that jury rigged antennas or carrying some spare gizmo still provide lots of opportunity for a cruiser to get out when needed even after an unexpected disaster. . It has been my experience that emergency use of the SSB is reasonably common but that the cause is generally not a severely damaged boat. Mostly its stuff like getting something to work or dealing with a medical problem. Even on occassion have seen starters rebuilt at sea with expert advice from a ham net. Jim Donohue KO6MH amateur extra "John Proctor" wrote in message news:2005032704261916807%lost@nowhereorg... On 2005-03-27 00:46:39 +1100, Larry W4CSC said: SNIP Jim, I think it is a matter of degree. One should be prepared for the worst. A backup system must be available for reliable first time use when the chips are down. Yes 90% of the time you will have no problem using a backstay. The point I was trying to make is that there are alternatives which can give good (notice I didn't say great!) service which address other reliability issues. On that note I think this topic has been done to death and there is obviously a divergence of opinion. I know what I will do when I put HF in my 37' Jeanneau SO. -- Regards, John Proctor VK3JP, VKV6789 S/V Chagall |
John Proctor wrote in
news:2005032710245316807%lost@nowhereorg: Jim, I think it is a matter of degree. One should be prepared for the worst. A backup system must be available for reliable first time use when the chips are down. Yes 90% of the time you will have no problem using a backstay. The point I was trying to make is that there are alternatives which can give good (notice I didn't say great!) service which address other reliability issues. Good idea. Lionheart is equipped with a 406 Mhz EPIRB with its own GPS receiver built right inside..... If the mast comes down or other catastrophy happens, just push that little button..... |
"Larry W4CSC" wrote in message ... John Proctor wrote in news:2005032710245316807%lost@nowhereorg: Jim, I think it is a matter of degree. One should be prepared for the worst. A backup system must be available for reliable first time use when the chips are down. Yes 90% of the time you will have no problem using a backstay. The point I was trying to make is that there are alternatives which can give good (notice I didn't say great!) service which address other reliability issues. Good idea. Lionheart is equipped with a 406 Mhz EPIRB with its own GPS receiver built right inside..... If the mast comes down or other catastrophy happens, just push that little button..... I'm not sure a dismasting rises to the level of a MAYDAY. I'd like to be able to be able to seek help and advise via SSB before resorting to declaring an emergency. DOug |
In article ,
"Doug Dotson" dougdotson@NOSPAMcablespeedNOSPAMcom wrote: "Larry W4CSC" wrote in message ... John Proctor wrote in news:2005032710245316807%lost@nowhereorg: Jim, I think it is a matter of degree. One should be prepared for the worst. A backup system must be available for reliable first time use when the chips are down. Yes 90% of the time you will have no problem using a backstay. The point I was trying to make is that there are alternatives which can give good (notice I didn't say great!) service which address other reliability issues. Good idea. Lionheart is equipped with a 406 Mhz EPIRB with its own GPS receiver built right inside..... If the mast comes down or other catastrophy happens, just push that little button..... I'm not sure a dismasting rises to the level of a MAYDAY. I'd like to be able to be able to seek help and advise via SSB before resorting to declaring an emergency. DOug that is why you have a coiled up dipole antenna in the emergency kit, under the bunk, that can be strung up with what is left of the mast, or broomstick, as the case may be.............. Bruce in alaska -- add a 2 before @ |
Been there, done that.
"Bruce in Alaska" wrote in message ... In article , "Doug Dotson" dougdotson@NOSPAMcablespeedNOSPAMcom wrote: "Larry W4CSC" wrote in message ... John Proctor wrote in news:2005032710245316807%lost@nowhereorg: Jim, I think it is a matter of degree. One should be prepared for the worst. A backup system must be available for reliable first time use when the chips are down. Yes 90% of the time you will have no problem using a backstay. The point I was trying to make is that there are alternatives which can give good (notice I didn't say great!) service which address other reliability issues. Good idea. Lionheart is equipped with a 406 Mhz EPIRB with its own GPS receiver built right inside..... If the mast comes down or other catastrophy happens, just push that little button..... I'm not sure a dismasting rises to the level of a MAYDAY. I'd like to be able to be able to seek help and advise via SSB before resorting to declaring an emergency. DOug that is why you have a coiled up dipole antenna in the emergency kit, under the bunk, that can be strung up with what is left of the mast, or broomstick, as the case may be.............. Bruce in alaska -- add a 2 before @ |
Larry W4CSC wrote:
Terry Spragg wrote in news:RtSdnZBYQIYn- : Beeswax, I say! Wonder why all the world's militarys don't run these amazing Outbacker home-made-lookin' antennas? Hell, I'm amazed Radio Moscow isn't using one! Well, consider what a nuclear EMP would do to cheap solid state AE voltage and current sensing circuitry. The military uses auto bandswitched tapped coil selectors to tune the antenna stump, and hang the mismatch, it's a vacuum tube output and rf amp reciever world, laddy, when the nukes are going tactical. Your car will die, your house will be dark, but the troops will still be able to find the coffee truck. You will be out in your driveway trying to fit your standby / backup carurettor, distributor, points and coil, right? Don't forget to stock up on duct tape and a year's supply of milled flour and strawberry jam. Terry K |
Terry Spragg wrote in
: Your car will die, your house will be dark, but the troops will still be able to find the coffee truck. You will be out in your driveway trying to fit your standby / backup carurettor, distributor, points and coil, right? Don't forget to stock up on duct tape and a year's supply of milled flour and strawberry jam. Terry K Not here....My 1973 Mercedes 220 Diesel will run fine....except maybe for the quartz clock, the only electronic gadget in the whole car! Wonder what the EMP will do to the mechanical voltage regulator?? It may blow the rectifiers in the alternator, but that's not important as the only thing the battery is used for is starting and lighting..... |
You guys watch too many sci-fi flicks. I used to work in a facility that
bombarded chips and then retested same. The test failures were discarded and those that passed were considered hardened and were installed in missles and silos. The greater percentage passed the tests, therefore your quartz clock would probably survive. G "Larry W4CSC" wrote in message ... Terry Spragg wrote in : Your car will die, your house will be dark, but the troops will still be able to find the coffee truck. You will be out in your driveway trying to fit your standby / backup carurettor, distributor, points and coil, right? Don't forget to stock up on duct tape and a year's supply of milled flour and strawberry jam. Terry K Not here....My 1973 Mercedes 220 Diesel will run fine....except maybe for the quartz clock, the only electronic gadget in the whole car! Wonder what the EMP will do to the mechanical voltage regulator?? It may blow the rectifiers in the alternator, but that's not important as the only thing the battery is used for is starting and lighting..... |
"Gordon" wrote in
: You guys watch too many sci-fi flicks. I used to work in a facility that bombarded chips and then retested same. The test failures were discarded and those that passed were considered hardened and were installed in missles and silos. The greater percentage passed the tests, therefore your quartz clock would probably survive. G I used to work in the Metrology Engineering Center (Code 132) of the Charleston Naval Shipyard. This astute title got me free engineering magazines and "stuff" from all over sent to the shop. Someone sent me a test IC called a "Nuclear Event Detector". What its purpose was was to detect the EMP BEFORE it could trash the data in the onboard computer of whatever military machine you were piloting, shutting down the computer temporarily until the event pulse had passed. I sat there shaking my head in dismay that there were those who actually think we could survive one of the major weapons to the point where we'd need the computer's data..... I forget who made it....Fairchild, perhaps. I also was sent the developer's tool kit for the Signetics WOM technology. WOM - Write Only Memory. The kit came with very professional-looking documentation, including a graph of filament voltage against filament current, that dropped, suddenly, as the filament opened around 8V. It also came with custom Signetics glasses-nose-moustache disguise so you wouldn't become the brunt of any office jokes while designing with Signetics WOM technology. The IC pinout was rather simple. Pin 1 was "data in". All the other pins, except for the filament pins 4 and 5 were NC, not connected. WOM technology was touted in the literature as a very successful bit bucket, insignificant bit storage, unused serial port (obviously it was a serial data device and the literature said so) data repository and a whole list of humourous uses. I've often wondered how many WOMs the lesser-educated government procurement bureaucrats have warehoused in some climate-controlled storage facility with the Nuclear Event Detectors.....(c; We could hook the NEDs in between the insignificant bit data stream and the WOMs to protect them! |
"Larry W4CSC" wrote I sat there shaking my head in dismay that there were those who actually think we could survive one of the major weapons to the point where we'd need the computer's data..... Pretty interesting cold war article here... Electromagnetic Pulse and the Radio Amateur Copyright © 1986 by the American Radio Relay League, Inc. All rights reserved. Part 1 appears in QST August 1986, pp. 15-20, 36 (http://www.arrl.org/tis/info/pdf/88615.pdf) Part 2 appears in QST September 1986, pp. 22-26 (http://www.arrl.org/tis/info/pdf/98622.pdf) Part 3 appears in QST October 1986, pp. 38-41 (http://www.arrl.org/tis/info/pdf/108638.pdf) Part 4 appears in QST November 1986, pp. 30-34 (http://www.arrl.org/tis/info/pdf/118630.pdf) Jack |
For someone who hates hams and ham radio you seem to spend alot of time
reading QST. "Jack Painter" wrote in message news:_OC3e.73628$7z6.51661@lakeread04... "Larry W4CSC" wrote I sat there shaking my head in dismay that there were those who actually think we could survive one of the major weapons to the point where we'd need the computer's data..... Pretty interesting cold war article here... Electromagnetic Pulse and the Radio Amateur Copyright © 1986 by the American Radio Relay League, Inc. All rights reserved. Part 1 appears in QST August 1986, pp. 15-20, 36 (http://www.arrl.org/tis/info/pdf/88615.pdf) Part 2 appears in QST September 1986, pp. 22-26 (http://www.arrl.org/tis/info/pdf/98622.pdf) Part 3 appears in QST October 1986, pp. 38-41 (http://www.arrl.org/tis/info/pdf/108638.pdf) Part 4 appears in QST November 1986, pp. 30-34 (http://www.arrl.org/tis/info/pdf/118630.pdf) Jack |
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