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Marley wrote:
I'd just LOVE to be a fly on the wall and be able to watch anyone who believes as Armond claims to believe when the coasties board and accuse him of ~thinking~ of visiting cuba though. Gee, I wonder who would win that debate? ROTFLMFAO! Cheers M You won't change the mind of any law enforcement officer. He proceeds, then you defend yourself in court. Arguing with any of them long proved that you can only worsen his temper and he may stick you with a couple more charges such as resisting arrest. And the winner is.... ....probably a bunch of lawyers after you spent twice the value of the boat in debating this through several courts, whichever side wins the case! ;-) Jean Dufour Montreal, Qc |
On Thu, 17 Mar 2005 08:01:47 -0500, "Jim Carter"
wrote: Well Armond, you should read the law again. I read it several times and I have interpreted it to mean that I, a Canadian citizen, and my boat, which is Canadain registered, will be seized by the US Govermnet Agencies empowered by this law, if they perceive that I will be travelling in US waters and my "intent" is to travel from US waters to Cuba. Yep. If you play Desi Arnaz 78s off Syracuse in a Canadian boat, the I-68 or whatever the form is called won't protect you if they think you're contemplating a cigar run. This is why I will not cross the lake. I do not care to subsidize fanaticism or to risk state-sanctioned theft because some nautical mall cops thinks I might be a Commie sympathiser. Well, no, but I do enjoy a Havana Club rum at the dock on occasion. So my increasingly lucrative dollars stay here in Soviet Canuckistan until someone grows a brain and a sense of proportion and respect for international law. To me this amounts to Piracy. Well, any excuse will do with the arrr-yo-ho-ho types. As the late Bill Hicks noted, the U.S. Feds went in at Waco because they "had heard of child abuse" (later unsubstantiated). Hicks said "in that case, why aren't there Abrams tanks flattening half the Catholic churches in the country?" Logic doesn't enter into things with governments, particularly governments that abrogate to themselves extra-territorial powers. R. |
rhys wrote:
On Thu, 17 Mar 2005 08:01:47 -0500, "Jim Carter" wrote: Well Armond, you should read the law again. I read it several times and I have interpreted it to mean that I, a Canadian citizen, and my boat, which is Canadain registered, will be seized by the US Govermnet Agencies empowered by this law, if they perceive that I will be travelling in US waters and my "intent" is to travel from US waters to Cuba. Yep. If you play Desi Arnaz 78s off Syracuse in a Canadian boat, the I-68 or whatever the form is called won't protect you if they think you're contemplating a cigar run. This is why I will not cross the lake. I do not care to subsidize fanaticism or to risk state-sanctioned theft because some nautical mall cops thinks I might be a Commie sympathiser. Well, no, but I do enjoy a Havana Club rum at the dock on occasion. So my increasingly lucrative dollars stay here in Soviet Canuckistan until someone grows a brain and a sense of proportion and respect for international law. To me this amounts to Piracy. Well, any excuse will do with the arrr-yo-ho-ho types. As the late Bill Hicks noted, the U.S. Feds went in at Waco because they "had heard of child abuse" (later unsubstantiated). Hicks said "in that case, why aren't there Abrams tanks flattening half the Catholic churches in the country?" Logic doesn't enter into things with governments, particularly governments that abrogate to themselves extra-territorial powers. R. Well said Rhys. Well said indeed. |
Armond, I hate to say it but yours is a dreamworld interpretation of the
directive. There are a lot of folks who try to find rational interpretations of for some of the current administration's policies but then there are folks who swear that Elvis is pumping gas in Arizona too. You can try to deny it all you want but the directive is what it is and says what it says and that is that your boat can be siezed if the government THINKS you MIGHT sail it into Cuban waters and it is up to you to prove them wrong. -- Glenn Ashmore I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com |
A brief civics lesson:
The White House proclamation is a policy document which gives the Secretary of Homeland Security the authority to make and enforce regulations within certain guidelines. Armed Coasties can't wave this policy document as they storm the boats of innocent cigar smokers sailing ominously near to Cuba. What they DO have to comply with and enforce is this document: http://www.uscg.mil/d7/d7o/mic/regulations.pdf It took me 2 minutes on Google to find the actual regulations the CG has to follow. I am not even going to pretend to interpret them for you; please read it for yourself. Civics disclaimer: The Secretary can change these regulations at any time as long as he does so within the President's proclamation. Jim |
"Jim" wrote in message oups.com... A brief civics lesson: The White House proclamation is a policy document which gives the Secretary of Homeland Security the authority to make and enforce regulations within certain guidelines. Armed Coasties can't wave this policy document as they storm the boats of innocent cigar smokers sailing ominously near to Cuba. What they DO have to comply with and enforce is this document: http://www.uscg.mil/d7/d7o/mic/regulations.pdf It took me 2 minutes on Google to find the actual regulations the CG has to follow. I am not even going to pretend to interpret them for you; please read it for yourself. Civics disclaimer: The Secretary can change these regulations at any time as long as he does so within the President's proclamation. Jim Regardless of content, some will interpret the proclamation as a profound threat to even those with cigars, charts or cruising guides of Cuba. A certain canadian with a propensity for waxing political, ad nauseam, coupled with wishing to be a fly on the wall, hopefully will meet up with a common fly swatter and thus spare us further BS. |
Glenn Ashmore wrote:
Armond, I hate to say it but yours is a dreamworld interpretation of the directive. There are a lot of folks who try to find rational interpretations of for some of the current administration's policies but then there are folks who swear that Elvis is pumping gas in Arizona too. You can try to deny it all you want but the directive is what it is and says what it says and that is that your boat can be siezed if the government THINKS you MIGHT sail it into Cuban waters and it is up to you to prove them wrong. For a change of pace lets discuss something germane. A certain writer whose nationality is not known to me suggested that his _Canadian_ vessel could be seized while in US waters merely for possessing Cuban charts. I disagree with this and if you yourself don't also, I'll be somewhat surprised. I made no comments about my US-flagged vessel and I certainly rendered no political opinion. In fact, in the several thousand posts I've written to this group I've never made a political statement (unless making such a claim is in itself political). Unless you do a stand-up routine as Karnack on the weekends, I don't see how you can logically assume _anything_ about my politics. This of course doesn't mean you're not free to do so here in the good ole USA, but it does seem a bit out of character in your particular case. I certainly don't mind being wrong, because there's always something new to learn. However I _do_ rather mind having my statements misrepresented, which is precisely the basis upon which the present discussion is built. But hey, ya know, sometimes things just happen in newsgroups, don't they?. -- Good luck and good sailing. s/v Kerry Deare of Barnegat http://kerrydeare.home.comcast.net/ |
Well the Canadians are pretty hacked right now and in a way I don't blame
them. I have a feeling you will be surprised but it is true that under the directive the USCG or any other federal law enforcement agency CAN seize a Canadian boat in international waters after transiting US waters that shows any indication of entering Cuban waters. It can be done and I have a bit of personal experience with the powers of the USCG that proves it.. I was the only American crew on a French flagged Beneteau enroute from Martinique to Port Antonio, Jamaica in February 1998. We were clearly in international waters a little over 20 miles south of Isla Beata on the south coast of the DR when about 2AM we were hailed by a USCG cutter. We were then boarded, searched and our log book and navigation notes and charts examined. The skipper was justifiably upset but atypically for a Frenchman decided that discretion was the better part of valor considering the cannon on the cutters foredeck trained on us. I thought the CG was outside its purview myself so when I got home I did a little research. It turns out that the USCG can and has seized foreign flagged vessels in international waters "of interest to the United States" when it is in violation of US laws or directives. If any contraband had been found they definitely would have taken the boat into custody. By simple extension a Canadian boat runs a similar risk. In short, a Canadian vessel enroute to or returning from Cuba may not enter US territorial waters without exposing itself to the possibility of seizure either in US or international waters. That includes after intermediate stops in the Bahamas, Hispanola and Cayman Islands. The directive has only one purpose. To keep the older Cuban community in Florida in the Republican camp. -- Glenn Ashmore I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com |
OK. You found it. Now read it. Part 107 Sub-part B specifically.
-- Glenn Ashmore I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com "Jim" wrote in message oups.com... A brief civics lesson: The White House proclamation is a policy document which gives the Secretary of Homeland Security the authority to make and enforce regulations within certain guidelines. Armed Coasties can't wave this policy document as they storm the boats of innocent cigar smokers sailing ominously near to Cuba. What they DO have to comply with and enforce is this document: http://www.uscg.mil/d7/d7o/mic/regulations.pdf It took me 2 minutes on Google to find the actual regulations the CG has to follow. I am not even going to pretend to interpret them for you; please read it for yourself. Civics disclaimer: The Secretary can change these regulations at any time as long as he does so within the President's proclamation. Jim |
Sir, your experience is OBE!
"Glenn Ashmore" wrote in message news:wjs_d.67021$SF.4096@lakeread08... Well the Canadians are pretty hacked right now and in a way I don't blame them. I have a feeling you will be surprised but it is true that under the directive the USCG or any other federal law enforcement agency CAN seize a Canadian boat in international waters after transiting US waters that shows any indication of entering Cuban waters. It can be done and I have a bit of personal experience with the powers of the USCG that proves it.. I was the only American crew on a French flagged Beneteau enroute from Martinique to Port Antonio, Jamaica in February 1998. We were clearly in international waters a little over 20 miles south of Isla Beata on the south coast of the DR when about 2AM we were hailed by a USCG cutter. We were then boarded, searched and our log book and navigation notes and charts examined. The skipper was justifiably upset but atypically for a Frenchman decided that discretion was the better part of valor considering the cannon on the cutters foredeck trained on us. I thought the CG was outside its purview myself so when I got home I did a little research. It turns out that the USCG can and has seized foreign flagged vessels in international waters "of interest to the United States" when it is in violation of US laws or directives. If any contraband had been found they definitely would have taken the boat into custody. By simple extension a Canadian boat runs a similar risk. In short, a Canadian vessel enroute to or returning from Cuba may not enter US territorial waters without exposing itself to the possibility of seizure either in US or international waters. That includes after intermediate stops in the Bahamas, Hispanola and Cayman Islands. The directive has only one purpose. To keep the older Cuban community in Florida in the Republican camp. -- Glenn Ashmore I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com |
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