Capping old through hulls
 

Does anyone know a source of bronze pipe caps that could be used to
blank off old through hulls without fiberglassing up the holes? I'd
fill the hole with something solid as well but I'd like that solid cap
on there.

--

Roger Long

Roger
I do not know where you are in the world, but try a real plumbing
supply house. There is usually one where ever I have been. BoatUS or
some place like them, might have them too.
Greg Luckett

Roger Long wrote:
Does anyone know a source of bronze pipe caps that could be used to
blank off old through hulls without fiberglassing up the holes? I'd
fill the hole with something solid as well but I'd like that solid
cap
on there.

--

Roger Long

Do yourself and the boat a major favor. Do a professional job and glass
the hole. For safety sake if for no other reason. You won't have
electrolysis issues and potential leaks. If you plan to reuse it at
some time, just close it and take the handle off. Caping it might not
be the right move.

A bronze cap of the same material and schedule will be just as
reliable as the thru hull which is a no back up component. Filling
the space with something resilient and flexible will exclude water and
also serve as a plug. I'd much rather depend on this with the thru
hull and inner nut sandwiching the glass that grinding back the hull
structure and depending on secondary glass bonds.

I would just leave the seacocks as you suggest except that they are
gate valves that I'm replacing and relocating at the same time.

--

Roger Long



"chuck" wrote in message
oups.com...
Do yourself and the boat a major favor. Do a professional job and
glass
the hole. For safety sake if for no other reason. You won't have
electrolysis issues and potential leaks. If you plan to reuse it at
some time, just close it and take the handle off. Caping it might
not
be the right move.

Here is one source:
http://www.stright-mackay.com/pages/...5&CategoryID=5

http://www.stright-mackay.com/
--
Ken Heaton & Anne Tobin
Cape Breton Island, Canada
kenheaton AT ess wye dee DOT eastlink DOT ca

"Roger Long" wrote in message
...
A bronze cap of the same material and schedule will be just as
reliable as the thru hull which is a no back up component. Filling
the space with something resilient and flexible will exclude water and
also serve as a plug. I'd much rather depend on this with the thru
hull and inner nut sandwiching the glass that grinding back the hull
structure and depending on secondary glass bonds.

I would just leave the seacocks as you suggest except that they are
gate valves that I'm replacing and relocating at the same time.

--

Roger Long



"chuck" wrote in message
oups.com...
Do yourself and the boat a major favor. Do a professional job and
glass
the hole. For safety sake if for no other reason. You won't have
electrolysis issues and potential leaks. If you plan to reuse it at
some time, just close it and take the handle off. Caping it might
not
be the right move.

"Roger Long" wrote in message
...

A bronze cap of the same material and schedule will be just as
reliable as the thru hull which is a no back up component. Filling
the space with something resilient and flexible will exclude water and
also serve as a plug. I'd much rather depend on this with the thru
hull and inner nut sandwiching the glass that grinding back the hull
structure and depending on secondary glass bonds.

I would just leave the seacocks as you suggest except that they are
gate valves that I'm replacing and relocating at the same time.

--

Roger Long

Roger,

I agree with the other posters. If you read about boats sinking, it's
seldom from secondary bonds popping off. More often than not it is a
seacock failing in some way. I figure you have a number of failure
points with a capped off seacock (cap coming loose, corrosion of
thru-hull, long term failure of caulking (like in 10 years).

I would go so far as to say it would not pass a survey with just a cap
on thru hull.

Evan Gatehouse

From a strength, corrosion, and functional standpoint:

If it isn't safe with a cap on it, it isn't safe with a seacock and a
hose.

(I'm talking about capping the bronze through hull; not the seacock.)

OTOH there is no way a scarfed out and secondarily bonded plug will be
as resistant to flexure and impact as the original hull. I would
agree that it would be acceptably safe and strong but still not to the
original standards. The capped seacock, especially with seawater and
the electrical path isolated from the inside of the pipe by proper
plugging, would be more reliable than it was originally.

--

Roger Long



"Evan Gatehouse" wrote in message
...
"Roger Long" wrote in message
...

A bronze cap of the same material and schedule will be just as
reliable as the thru hull which is a no back up component.
Filling
the space with something resilient and flexible will exclude
water and
also serve as a plug. I'd much rather depend on this with the
thru
hull and inner nut sandwiching the glass that grinding back the
hull
structure and depending on secondary glass bonds.

I would just leave the seacocks as you suggest except that they
are
gate valves that I'm replacing and relocating at the same time.

--

Roger Long

Roger,

I agree with the other posters. If you read about boats sinking,
it's seldom from secondary bonds popping off. More often than not
it is a seacock failing in some way. I figure you have a number of
failure points with a capped off seacock (cap coming loose,
corrosion of thru-hull, long term failure of caulking (like in 10
years).

I would go so far as to say it would not pass a survey with just a
cap on thru hull.

Evan Gatehouse

I asked a well regarded and experienced surveyor about the through
hulls. Here is his response:

"The standard response to unused thru hulls is to cap them. The
removal
and reglassing is suspect. I think your approach is the proper
solution and
will last beyond any other approach."

--

Roger Long

Roger Long wrote:
I asked a well regarded and experienced surveyor about the through
hulls. Here is his response:

"The standard response to unused thru hulls is to cap them. The
removal
and reglassing is suspect. I think your approach is the proper
solution and
will last beyond any other approach."


I don't understand how "reglassing is suspect." As for capping
thru-hulls, one very rarely sees that and it leaves a vulnerable point.
You might consider asking the ABYC.

When it comes to holes in your hull, the "more is better" approach
doesn't sound good.

DSK

Well, the hole in this discussion is already there. The question is
how it get's plugged up. It's either going to get plugged up with
fiberglass or with the existing bronze fitting designed for this
critical service and mechanically locked into the fiberglass by the
flange and nut.

As someone who has been designing boats (including fiberglass ones)
and figuring out how to keep the water out for over a quarter century,
I'm in favor of the latter.

If cost and time were not issues, and I wanted the inside and outside
of the boat to look like nothing was ever there, I would have no
qualms about a properly done fiberglass fill in. This is a case though
where, as an engineering judgement, I think the easy way out is
actually the most reliable by a small margin.

I find it very interesting what a minority I seem to be on this
(except for the single professional second opinion I've obtained).

--

Roger Long



"DSK" wrote in message
.. .

I don't understand how "reglassing is suspect." As for capping
thru-hulls, one very rarely sees that and it leaves a vulnerable
point. You might consider asking the ABYC.

When it comes to holes in your hull, the "more is better" approach
doesn't sound good.

DSK

Roger Long wrote:
Well, the hole in this discussion is already there.

Yes, and it seems you don't want it there... or you wouldn't be talking
about plugging it up, right?

... The question is
how it get's plugged up. It's either going to get plugged up with
fiberglass or with the existing bronze fitting designed for this
critical service and mechanically locked into the fiberglass by the
flange and nut.

As someone who has been designing boats (including fiberglass ones)
and figuring out how to keep the water out for over a quarter century,
I'm in favor of the latter.

If cost and time were not issues, and I wanted the inside and outside
of the boat to look like nothing was ever there, I would have no
qualms about a properly done fiberglass fill in.

The issue here is "properly done." If you were talking about a temporary
plug, until you are planning to haul the boat later and fiberglass over
the hole, I'd say it's fine to put on a cap or a plug. But in the long
run, it's still much more vulnerable to corrosion or breakage than a
fiberglass patch.

Personally I wouldn't haul the boat *just* to do this one job. If that's
your point, I'm with you.


... This is a case though
where, as an engineering judgement, I think the easy way out is
actually the most reliable by a small margin.


Why? What is "fiberglassing over the hole" vulnerable to? You still
haven't explained that part. And it's certainly not prohibitively
expensive... I did exactly that to an unused thru-hull on our boat

http://community.webshots.com/photo/...73346002sUSTvu

and used probably ten bucks or so worth of stuff... of course I do a
fair amount of fiberglass & epoxy work and buy the materials cheaply.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

"DSK" wrote in message
.. .
Why? What is "fiberglassing over the hole" vulnerable to? You still
haven't explained that part. And it's certainly not prohibitively
expensive...

It's not vulnerable to much unless there is impact and flexing. I
wouldn't want to just fill the hole on a solid layup (which my boat
is) as there isn't much to hold the patch in. The fiberglass should
be tapered back so there is a good, long scarf for bonding. You're
right that it wouldn't be expensive to do yourself but I'm thinking
yard time (after all, my time is worth something too and unenjoyable
jobs like grinding fiberglass don't have their own rewards). By the
time it is ground, filled, faired, and re-painted, it will cost a bit
either in other things you didn't get done or out of the checkbook.

With a cored hull, you can and should dig out as much core as you can
reach to seal if from the water. This will create a good mechanical
as well as adhesive connection since the patch will extend between the
skins.

The cap and fill will last as long and reliably (actually more so due
to the watertight fill) than the rest of the through hull plumbing.
That's good enough for me. Getting plastic through hulls, especially
the ones near the waterline that can freeze, replaced with bronze is a
much more important issue.

--

Roger Long

Roger Long wrote:
It's not vulnerable to much unless there is impact and flexing.

I'd say even then, it's not any more vulnerable than the rest of the
hull, given a proper job.

... I
wouldn't want to just fill the hole on a solid layup (which my boat
is) as there isn't much to hold the patch in. The fiberglass should
be tapered back so there is a good, long scarf for bonding.

Sure, that's part of doing it right. I assumed you were comparing the
cap/plug to a proper repair, not just slapping in some putty.

... You're
right that it wouldn't be expensive to do yourself but I'm thinking
yard time (after all, my time is worth something too and unenjoyable
jobs like grinding fiberglass don't have their own rewards). By the
time it is ground, filled, faired, and re-painted, it will cost a bit
either in other things you didn't get done or out of the checkbook.


Agreed. But... if the boat is already hauled for other work, and you
already have other fiberglass work in hand, doing a patch on a former
thru-hull hole is no big deal. I spent more time on the work pictured in
putting up & taping a drop cloth in place to keep grinding dust from
getting all over the engine room.

With a cored hull, you can and should dig out as much core as you can
reach to seal if from the water. This will create a good mechanical
as well as adhesive connection since the patch will extend between the
skins.

Agreed. In this case it would be important to make sure the core is
thoroughly dry & still bonded, and to use material compatible with the
core. Not many hulls are cored below the waterline though AFAIK.


The cap and fill will last as long and reliably (actually more so due
to the watertight fill) than the rest of the through hull plumbing.

Sure, but that's the point. A thru-hull is a vulnerable point. It's a
hole in the hull, a potentially disasterous leak. Vulnerable to
grounding or other impact, flexing, corrosion, freezing, electrolysis,
and occasional misadventures. As opposed to a hole that has been
fiberglassed over, which is vulnerable to... umm, you haven't explained
that part yet...

That's good enough for me. Getting plastic through hulls, especially
the ones near the waterline that can freeze, replaced with bronze is a
much more important issue.


If that's already on your work schedule, then removing & fiberglassing
over the old unused thru-hull during the same haul-out is a trivial
addition IMHO. But hey it's your boat ;)

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Ken,

I'll be bringing my boat up to Cape Breton this Summer and would
appreciate your recommendations regarding suppliers of
necessaries/desirables for sailboats in the area, as I'll be doing a
lengthy refitting and am unfamiliar with suppliers beyond Port
Hawkesbury, though please don't omit recommendations there either.

On the other hand if you've discovered better sources outside of Cape
Breton, please send them on :-)

Appreciatively,
Courtney



Ken Heaton wrote:

Here is one source:
http://www.stright-mackay.com/pages/...5&CategoryID=5

http://www.stright-mackay.com/



--
s/v Mutiny
Rhodes Bounty II
lying Oriental, NC
WDB5619

Hi Courtney,

Port Hawkesbury is about two hours away by car so I don't buy much there.
Most of the suppliers in Cape Breton service the commercial fishing fleets
and other commercial users but some deal with recreational boaters as well,
such as Sydney Ship Supply (now owned by the IMP Group of companies):
P.O. Box 38
Victoria Road
Sydney, NS
B1N 3B1
Tel: (902) 564-5425
Fax: (902) 539-0904
http://www.impmarine.com/impmarine/

I'd probably be more helpful if you had a specific request for an item or
service. We search for many things online. I used to have all sorts of
links collected together somewhere but I can't find them anymore. Here a
short list of online suppliers in Nova Scotia and beyond:

These guys are based in Halifax, NS: http://ca.binnacle.com/online/

As a http://www.mmosonline.com/

I've dealt with both, both online and by calling or visiting their stores,
and am happy with the service.

In Toronto: http://www.hollandmarine.com/

The next two have a somewhat limited online presence but offer used
equipment.

Based in Sidney, BC: http://www.theboatersexchange.com/

or Vancouver: http://www.marinersxchange.com/


"Courtney Thomas" wrote in message
...
Ken,

I'll be bringing my boat up to Cape Breton this Summer and would
appreciate your recommendations regarding suppliers of
necessaries/desirables for sailboats in the area, as I'll be doing a
lengthy refitting and am unfamiliar with suppliers beyond Port
Hawkesbury, though please don't omit recommendations there either.

On the other hand if you've discovered better sources outside of Cape
Breton, please send them on :-)

Appreciatively,
Courtney



Ken Heaton wrote:

Here is one source:

http://www.stright-mackay.com/pages/...5&CategoryID=5

http://www.stright-mackay.com/



--
s/v Mutiny
Rhodes Bounty II
lying Oriental, NC
WDB5619