In article ,
Skipper wrote:

I replaced the two "C" batteries in my boat with a new bank of 8
six volt batteries. When I disconnected the old batteries, one of the
soldered terminals just fell off the wire. I tested a couple others
and I was able to pull most of them right off!
The terminals appeared to have been properly soldered and they were
all shrink wrapped. But the connections had failed.

*Proper* solder joints are more difficult to do than it seems,
particularly as you're mixing two or more metals in a humid,
vibration-prone environment. We have a few soldered connections on the
boat that must have been pretty good since they lasted 30 years, but
they're now failing. The only old crimps to fail were in the bilge --
and the wire corroded away, sometimes a distance from the actual joint.

I did some research and bought an inexpensive, mallet operated
crimper made by Ancor. I used it for all my crimps over 10 gauge wire.
It works perfectly and gives a good crimp every time. The research I
did says the pressure of the crimp actually welds the tinned wire to
the terminal.

That weld would be very slight.

Lots of people have told me to solder first and then crimp. I do
not think this is necessary. In fact, I think it might not give as
good a connection as the crimp by itself.

Solder than crimp would be entirely backwards. If nothing else, most
people would need to use a larger connector to get the wire in. Could
see soldering after crimping, particularly soldering primarily the
"outboard" end to seal against moisture and improve the surface area,
but since most battery connectors have only one open end, I'd not touch
them.

--
Jere Lull
Xan-a-Deux ('73 Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD)
Xan's Pages: http://members.dca.net/jerelull/X-Main.html
Our BVI FAQs (290+ pics) http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

Yes, use a ratcheting crimper and double crimp fittings with adhesive lined
shrink tubing if you want the best. You can get aircraft mil spec terminals
and tools here if you're interested. No financial connection to the company,
just a satisfied customer. DON'T solder!

--


Keith
__
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
"beaufortnc" wrote in message
oups.com...
Hi,

In my quest for the "perfect" marine electrical connection, I've heard
and read a variety of opinions.

In general, most sources agree on the majority of subjects (tinned
wire/connectors, correct sizing, etc...)

However, when it comes to the subject of whether to solder connections
or not, it seems that there is some disagreement.

Are high quality mechanical connections, made with the proper tool, and
protected with adhesive heat shrink enough?

Some think that it isn't.

Any thoughts?

Thanks,

Mike.

Oops... got sent without the link: http://www.terminaltown.com/

--


Keith
__
Ever notice how people that tell you to calm down are the ones who got you
mad in the first place?
"Keith" wrote in message
...
Yes, use a ratcheting crimper and double crimp fittings with adhesive
lined shrink tubing if you want the best. You can get aircraft mil spec
terminals and tools here if you're interested. No financial connection to
the company, just a satisfied customer. DON'T solder!

--


Keith
__
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
"beaufortnc" wrote in message
oups.com...
Hi,

In my quest for the "perfect" marine electrical connection, I've heard
and read a variety of opinions.

In general, most sources agree on the majority of subjects (tinned
wire/connectors, correct sizing, etc...)

However, when it comes to the subject of whether to solder connections
or not, it seems that there is some disagreement.

Are high quality mechanical connections, made with the proper tool, and
protected with adhesive heat shrink enough?

Some think that it isn't.

Any thoughts?

Thanks,

Mike.

beaufortnc wrote:
Hi,

In my quest for the "perfect" marine electrical connection, I've
heard
and read a variety of opinions.

In general, most sources agree on the majority of subjects (tinned
wire/connectors, correct sizing, etc...)

However, when it comes to the subject of whether to solder
connections
or not, it seems that there is some disagreement.

Are high quality mechanical connections, made with the proper tool,
and
protected with adhesive heat shrink enough?

Some think that it isn't.

Any thoughts?

Thanks,

Mike.

Mike, if done properly, with the right equipment, both soldered and
crimped connections work very well. You would be hard pressed to show
proof of one being better than the other. Manufacturers prefer crimped
connections because they cost much less than soldered connections, and
they tend to be more consistant, from part to part. Their's also no
flux residue to clean from a crimped contact.

The real problem with crimped connections is that for them to perform
as designed you need the proper crimping tool and die set from the
crimp contact manufacturer. This will produce a "gass tight seal" in
the area of the crimp. If you do not have the proper die set, and tool
(the right tool and die can cost a few hundred dollars), you may over
crimp (start breaking the strands) which can result in the contact
eventually seperating from the wire. If you under crimp the contact you
will not end up with a gass tight seal, the end result of which will be
increased resistance at the point of the crimp due to corrosion (it may
take a long time for this to happen, but it will). I have never seen
anyone outside of a manufacturer that had the proper crimping tool,
people think they have the right tool but they don't, their just not
common.

Because of the reasons above, your best bet, without spending lots of
money on special crimping tools, a soldered joint is probably the most
reliable connection method for you. Stick with tinned wires and tinned
contacts, solder with 63/37 rosen based solder, don't apply too much
solder (it can wick up under the insulation), don't melt the
insulation, and clean the flux residue off with a spray cleaned. If you
do cover the ternination with heat shrink it's also a good idea to
cover the final termination with a product like Liquid Tape. A
connectoin made in this manner should last for a long time if not
exposed to too much moisture.

I hope this helped to answer your qusetion.

John

*snip!

Because of the reasons above, your best bet, without spending lots of
money on special crimping tools, a soldered joint is probably the most
reliable connection method for you. Stick with tinned wires and tinned
contacts, solder with 63/37 rosen based solder, don't apply too much
solder (it can wick up under the insulation), don't melt the
insulation, and clean the flux residue off with a spray cleaned. If you
do cover the ternination with heat shrink it's also a good idea to
cover the final termination with a product like Liquid Tape. A
connectoin made in this manner should last for a long time if not
exposed to too much moisture.

I hope this helped to answer your qusetion.

John

I use Ancor wire, Ancor terminals, and Ancor crimp tools. The
crimp tool for anything over 10 gauge wire is mallet (or hammer)
operated and it cost $20 or $30. My ratcheting crimper for smaller
wire cost about $50. These are the proper tools and the crimps are
excellent.

"beaufortnc" wrote in message
oups.com...
Hi,

In my quest for the "perfect" marine electrical connection, I've heard
and read a variety of opinions.

In general, most sources agree on the majority of subjects (tinned
wire/connectors, correct sizing, etc...)

However, when it comes to the subject of whether to solder connections
or not, it seems that there is some disagreement.

Are high quality mechanical connections, made with the proper tool, and
protected with adhesive heat shrink enough?

Some think that it isn't.

Any thoughts?

Thanks,

Mike.


A much debated topic.
I think at one time the mil standard for radios was to crimp the terminal
for mechanical strength AND solder for good electrical connection. For
small wire I just use good quality terminals, tinned wire and a racheting
crimper. Wire should be supported at the terminal end so that it cannot
move but I have to say I don't often do this.
I did a little research before installing my 2/0 cables for my windlass.
I have a book on causes of electrical fires which says solder is subject to
creep, that is, a wire under tension may eventually pull out or loosen to
the point where a poor connection generates enough heat to start a fire. The
book says a proper crimp compresses the wire enough to remove all air spaces
and you need several tons of force to do this with big cables. I ended up
borrowing a industrial grade, compound leverage crimper with 3 foot handles.
These cost about $700 new. I don't think a hammer, or one of those units
you clamp in a vise, is capable of doing a really good job. If that was all
that was available I think I'd solder and support the wire although trying
to solder heavy cable is difficult as it soaks up the heat so fast.

My experience is that when you solder, the flux wicks back into the stranded
wire. While the soldered connection is solid,
the area of wire with the flux corrodes from the salt spray. If you must
solder, cover the splice with heat shrinkable tubing
with adhesive. When the adhesive melts a watertight connection will be made.

Regard's

Mike N2MS

"beaufortnc" wrote in message
oups.com...
Hi,

In my quest for the "perfect" marine electrical connection, I've heard
and read a variety of opinions.

In general, most sources agree on the majority of subjects (tinned
wire/connectors, correct sizing, etc...)

However, when it comes to the subject of whether to solder connections
or not, it seems that there is some disagreement.

Are high quality mechanical connections, made with the proper tool, and
protected with adhesive heat shrink enough?

Some think that it isn't.

Any thoughts?

Thanks,

Mike.