![]() |
JAXAshby wrote:
give it a break, dougie. everyone who has sailer offshore has been in waves half or more the boat's beam. no great shakes, and no danger at at, nun, unless the waves are breaking, and that don't happen in deep water. Except when they do. There is nothing that prevents waves from breaking in open water in storm conditions. In winds over 60 knots, virtually all of the high waves (10% of all waves) will break. Some breakers will be found in lesser winds. Breakers form when the wave steepness exceeds a certain limit. This can happen as a function of wind alone - no bottom interaction is needed. They will occur in any significant waves simply by the constructive interference of two or more sub-critical waves. These are true breakers, with plunging jets of solid water that is moving roughly 30% faster than the waves - enough to create pressures of several tons per square foot. Jaxie's claim that waves can't break in open water is simply an old wives tale. |
On Mon, 7 Feb 2005, JAXAshby wrote:
*breaking* wave does not mean "white caps". breaking waves occur in shallow water, one of the reasons experienced ocean sailor travel outside the hundred fathom line. LMAO! Waves break in "shallow" water when the height is about 3/4 of the depth. So those "experienced ocean sailors" are staying in 600 feet to avoid having those 450ft waves break? You're a kick, JAX. KeS |
yup. that they are. you see, sometimes (just sometimes, you understand you
freaking idgit) the water is not ALWAYS deep, most particularly near shore. kevin, you blithering idiot, you really need to go sailing some day. From: Date: 2/7/2005 6:05 P.M. Eastern Standard Time Message-id: rq-jvgu.arg On Mon, 7 Feb 2005, JAXAshby wrote: *breaking* wave does not mean "white caps". breaking waves occur in shallow water, one of the reasons experienced ocean sailor travel outside the hundred fathom line. LMAO! Waves break in "shallow" water when the height is about 3/4 of the depth. So those "experienced ocean sailors" are staying in 600 feet to avoid having those 450ft waves break? You're a kick, JAX. KeS |
kriste almighty, juggies. please be quiet. there ain't not a soul on the ng
who believes you have the degree in physics you claim to have. you have made waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too many stew ped posts such as the one below. From: Jeff Morris Date: 2/7/2005 12:13 P.M. Eastern Standard Time Message-id: JAXAshby wrote: give it a break, dougie. everyone who has sailer offshore has been in waves half or more the boat's beam. no great shakes, and no danger at at, nun, unless the waves are breaking, and that don't happen in deep water. Except when they do. There is nothing that prevents waves from breaking in open water in storm conditions. In winds over 60 knots, virtually all of the high waves (10% of all waves) will break. Some breakers will be found in lesser winds. Breakers form when the wave steepness exceeds a certain limit. This can happen as a function of wind alone - no bottom interaction is needed. They will occur in any significant waves simply by the constructive interference of two or more sub-critical waves. These are true breakers, with plunging jets of solid water that is moving roughly 30% faster than the waves - enough to create pressures of several tons per square foot. Jaxie's claim that waves can't break in open water is simply an old wives tale. |
Quiet Jaxie, I wasn't talking to you. This topic is clearly way over
your head. Anyone interested in this subject should check out "Oceanography and Seamanship" by William Van Dorn. A superb reference on a number of topics, especially the science of ocean waves. JAXAshby wrote: kriste almighty, juggies. please be quiet. there ain't not a soul on the ng who believes you have the degree in physics you claim to have. you have made waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too many stew ped posts such as the one below. From: Jeff Morris Date: 2/7/2005 12:13 P.M. Eastern Standard Time Message-id: JAXAshby wrote: give it a break, dougie. everyone who has sailer offshore has been in waves half or more the boat's beam. no great shakes, and no danger at at, nun, unless the waves are breaking, and that don't happen in deep water. Except when they do. There is nothing that prevents waves from breaking in open water in storm conditions. In winds over 60 knots, virtually all of the high waves (10% of all waves) will break. Some breakers will be found in lesser winds. Breakers form when the wave steepness exceeds a certain limit. This can happen as a function of wind alone - no bottom interaction is needed. They will occur in any significant waves simply by the constructive interference of two or more sub-critical waves. These are true breakers, with plunging jets of solid water that is moving roughly 30% faster than the waves - enough to create pressures of several tons per square foot. Jaxie's claim that waves can't break in open water is simply an old wives tale. |
you are not talking to anyone but yourself, juggies (and,
maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaybe two or three stucking few ped idgits). From: Jeff Morris Date: 2/7/2005 8:23 P.M. Eastern Standard Time Message-id: Quiet Jaxie, I wasn't talking to you. This topic is clearly way over your head. Anyone interested in this subject should check out "Oceanography and Seamanship" by William Van Dorn. A superb reference on a number of topics, especially the science of ocean waves. JAXAshby wrote: kriste almighty, juggies. please be quiet. there ain't not a soul on the ng who believes you have the degree in physics you claim to have. you have made waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too many stew ped posts such as the one below. From: Jeff Morris Date: 2/7/2005 12:13 P.M. Eastern Standard Time Message-id: JAXAshby wrote: give it a break, dougie. everyone who has sailer offshore has been in waves half or more the boat's beam. no great shakes, and no danger at at, nun, unless the waves are breaking, and that don't happen in deep water. Except when they do. There is nothing that prevents waves from breaking in open water in storm conditions. In winds over 60 knots, virtually all of the high waves (10% of all waves) will break. Some breakers will be found in lesser winds. Breakers form when the wave steepness exceeds a certain limit. This can happen as a function of wind alone - no bottom interaction is needed. They will occur in any significant waves simply by the constructive interference of two or more sub-critical waves. These are true breakers, with plunging jets of solid water that is moving roughly 30% faster than the waves - enough to create pressures of several tons per square foot. Jaxie's claim that waves can't break in open water is simply an old wives tale. |
Following is from www.seriesdrogue.com
and I scoff and mock all you scared weard little guys,like Jax, who will no doubt cry foul, because someone with a commercial interest in this subject dares make a post. Worst Case Breaking Wave Strike I have chosen the case of the Winston Churchill in the 1998 Sydney Hobart race as an example of a worst case breaking wave. The Churchill was a classic wooden sloop of 25 tons displacement and 55 ft. LOA. Of the experienced crew of 9, two perished in the accident. From "Fatal Storm' by Mundle. "A sea came out of nowhere", said Stanley, " I could feel it from where I was in the aft coach house. It picked the boat up and rolled it down its face - 25 tons of boat- into the trough at a 45 degree angle. It was like hitting a brick wall when we hit the bottom". A crewman below reports that a sudden motion of the ship picked him up and threw him 7 ft. He observed that 8 ft of the heavy timber bulwark and planking had been torn off near the leeward shrouds, and the ribs were exposed. . The boat filled rapidly and sank in a matter of minutes. This is an unusual type of accident. Although there are records of many storm casualties, I am aware of no documented instance of a well found yacht of the size and reputation of the Churchill and crewed by an ample group of expert sailors, suffering such catastrophic structural damage that it sank in a matter of minutes. How could this possibly happen? The severity or the storm was extreme but by no means unprecedented. There are numerous reports of large sailing yachts surviving hurricanes of the same general magnitude. Although yachts have been lost in such storms I have been able to find no record of comparable structural damage. History shows that the probability of a yacht being capsized and damaged by a large breaking wave is strongly influenced by the displacement of the vessel. Yachts under 35 ft. have a poor history while yachts over 50 ft are rarely capsized and damaged. The nature and extent of the damage incurred by the Churchill is also most unusual. The vessel was designed by Sparkman and Stevens and was maintained to the highest standard. Yet the heavy timber bulwark was shattered, the planking gone and the ribs exposed. There is no question of the fact that the leeward bow of the boat was driven into solid green water at an extremely high velocity, far higher than would be expected in a simple contact with a breaking wave. We now have a technical understanding of how such a destructive force can be generated. Observations from many experienced sailors on a number of the SH yachts provide data which permit a sound engineering analysis of the performance of the waves and the boats in the race. Water forces are applied to the hull of a yacht by two means, buoyancy forces and dynamic forces. Buoyancy forces are the familiar pressure forces which keep the boat afloat. They never reach sufficient magnitude to damage a well found yacht. Dynamic forces result from the motion of the boat relative to the water, either as a result of the boat velocity or the water velocity due to wave motion. A speeding power boat can be destroyed by striking solid water. Similarly, a sailing yacht can be destroyed if it is accelerated up to a high speed by a breaking wave strike and then impacts solid green water in the preceding trough. This is the fate that befell the Churchill. To understand this phenomenon we must consider the concept of energy. A moving car or boat has energy. This form of energy is called kinetic energy. Kinetic energy is measured in foot-pounds. Kinetic energy can be calculated by the formula KE=1/2 (w/g) times (v squared). Where w is the weight of the car or boat, g is the acceleration of gravity (32.2 ft/sec) and v is the velocity in ft./sec. Thus a 3,000 lb. weight traveling at 30 mph (44 ft./sec.) would have a kinetic energy of 90,000 foot pounds. Now...and this is very important to our understanding of the Churchill disaster...if the moving vehicle strikes an object, the kinetic energy determines the severity of the collision and the extent of the damage. In addition to energy due to motion, a vehicle can possess energy due to height. This type of energy, also measured in foot pounds, is calculated simply as the height times the weight. A 3000 lb car hoisted to a height of 50 ft. would have 150,000 foot pounds of energy. If dropped from 50 ft to a solid surface, the car would dissipate this energy in damage. If the car was compressed by 2 ft. the average force during the impact would be 75,000 pounds. If it landed on its top and compressed four feet (because it was softer) the average force would be 37,500 lbs. .These numbers (compression and force) are not precise but the product must be the same to satisfy the energy balance. more of the same at my site regards Bryan Rich Hampel wrote in message ... What will happen to a 45ft. boat being hit by a 50 ft. wave ...... Not much if the wave isnt steep as the boat will simply lift over the wave. The *steepness* of the wave is important; and, It all depends o n the posiition of the boat vs. the oncoming wave, with being broadside to the wave and steepness of the wave (and whether its breaking or not.) that is thw worst case. Breaking waves (the tops of the waves sliding down the front of the wave in a big 'show' of air filled foam are the 'nasties' that break boats. If the boat is moving, the expertise of the helmsman (able to dodge breaking waves by steering around them, etc. is vitally important as is the 'stability' or sea-worthniness of the boat. A 50 foot wave is no big deal if it isnt a 'steep wave'. An approximate 25-30 ft. wave if steep enough can easily roll a 45ft boat - depends on if its broadside, etc. The inbuilt stabilty is the factor of how a boat survives adverse waves; a lightweight broad beam boat will tend to be vastly more unstable than a heavy, deep, narrow boat ... the lightweight boat having sometimes the advantage of being able to sail away from bad weather faster than a heavy boat. When the sea state is dangerous there are techniques that can be used to survive --- such as using a parachute anchor and holding the bow about 45 degrees to the oncoming waves. The boat will 'slip' slightly backwards and the turbulance of the slip on the surface will cause the waves to 'break' before they hit the boat, etc. Its not the height of the waves but the steepness of the waves and especially if the wave is so steep that the top of wave is 'breaking' that is so dangerous. hope this helps. . net, wrote: I saw the news earlier this week about the 591' ship Explorer with 681 college students on board getting hit by a 50' wave. What will happen if a 45' sailboat gets hit by the same wave ? Does it make a difference which way the boat is facing when it gets hit by a wave this big ? If it does then which way is the best way ? I was told that a good boat can correct itself even if a big wave turns it upside down. So can you just strap yourself to your bed and go to sleep ? Are the windows likely to break and let the water in so that the boat can sink after getting hit many times ? What else do you think can happen ? Thanks for your help. |
Standard Time
Message-id: you are not talking to anyone but yourself, juggies (and, maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaybe two or three stucking few ped idgits). Didja notice Jax? Ain't but a rare few who will waste time responding to your nonsense. Mayhaps Jeff will finally "killfile" your dumb, rank amateur Jaxass like all the rest. Me? Hell, when AOL stops NG's, my days of laughing at you will be over, so why bother........ Shen |
juggies, STOP IT!!! you phreeking idgit. don't ever under any circumstances
post again on any subject, including but not limited to sailing. even with google helping you, you could phooque up a wet dream. From: Jeff Morris Date: 2/7/2005 8:23 P.M. Eastern Standard Time Message-id: Quiet Jaxie, I wasn't talking to you. This topic is clearly way over your head. Anyone interested in this subject should check out "Oceanography and Seamanship" by William Van Dorn. A superb reference on a number of topics, especially the science of ocean waves. JAXAshby wrote: kriste almighty, juggies. please be quiet. there ain't not a soul on the ng who believes you have the degree in physics you claim to have. you have made waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too many stew ped posts such as the one below. From: Jeff Morris Date: 2/7/2005 12:13 P.M. Eastern Standard Time Message-id: JAXAshby wrote: give it a break, dougie. everyone who has sailer offshore has been in waves half or more the boat's beam. no great shakes, and no danger at at, nun, unless the waves are breaking, and that don't happen in deep water. Except when they do. There is nothing that prevents waves from breaking in open water in storm conditions. In winds over 60 knots, virtually all of the high waves (10% of all waves) will break. Some breakers will be found in lesser winds. Breakers form when the wave steepness exceeds a certain limit. This can happen as a function of wind alone - no bottom interaction is needed. They will occur in any significant waves simply by the constructive interference of two or more sub-critical waves. These are true breakers, with plunging jets of solid water that is moving roughly 30% faster than the waves - enough to create pressures of several tons per square foot. Jaxie's claim that waves can't break in open water is simply an old wives tale. |
All times are GMT +1. The time now is 03:23 PM. |
Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004 - 2014 BoatBanter.com