Great Loop distances
 

How long might it take to deliver a boat from Baltimore, Maryland to
Makinaw Island (right between Lakes Michigan and Huron) assuming one
wasn't in a big hurry, but didn't plan to stop at all the attractions?
We would go via the Hudson, Erie Canal, Trent-Severn, Georgian Bay.

Capt. Jeff

Good idea to include a minor detail such as boat speed! It's a trawler
that will cruise at 10 knots, but I like 8 better, and don't plan to run
more than six hours a day.

Capt. jeff

On Tue, 25 Jan 2005 08:02:55 -0600, Tamaroak
wrote:
How long might it take to deliver a boat from Baltimore, Maryland to
Makinaw Island (right between Lakes Michigan and Huron) assuming one
wasn't in a big hurry, but didn't plan to stop at all the attractions?
We would go via the Hudson, Erie Canal, Trent-Severn, Georgian Bay.
================================================== ==

You don't say what kind of boat or what the cruising speed is, both
important. Rough estimates based on my experience:
Baltimore to NYC 2 days sail boat or trawler, 1 day fast power boat
NYC to Troy, NY (start of NYS barge canal) 2 days sail, 1 day fast
power
If sail add another day for unstepping and cradling mast at Albany
Troy to Oswego 3 or 4 days
Oswego to Trent-Svern 1 or 2 days
Trent-Svern to Georgian Bay 5 days + restep mast
Georgian Bay to Mackinaw Island - depends on speed

Best guess, 2 or 3 weeks total depending on speed. Trent-Svern is
limited to drafts in the 4 to 5 foot range depending on water level.
I believe the best route for speed is to take the Welland Canal from
Lake Ontario to Lake Erie.

On Tue, 25 Jan 2005 08:55:20 -0600, Tamaroak
wrote:
Good idea to include a minor detail such as boat speed! It's a trawler
that will cruise at 10 knots, but I like 8 better, and don't plan to run
more than six hours a day.

===================================

Basically then you are talking about 50 mile days. On the canal
systems I allow an extra 30 to 40 minutes per lock when estimating.

If you have a trawler mast over 22 feet, you will need to drop it.

On a trip that long I'd factor in a few weather delay days also.
There is also some risk of becoming "stuck" in a canal system for
maintenace or water level delays. That can vary from days to weeks.
It happens at times, and people end up leaving their boats for awhile
until the problems are cleared.

Tamaroak wrote:
Good idea to include a minor detail such as boat speed! It's a trawler
that will cruise at 10 knots, but I like 8 better, and don't plan to run
more than six hours a day.

Capt. jeff
My catamaran is a tad slower in general, and we usually considered 6
hours a full day, though we could go longer in the canals because
they're stress-free, other than locking. On our last trip from
Baltimore to NYC, did Baltimore-Chesapeake City-Cape May-Atlantic
City-Atlantic Highlands-into Long Island Sound, or 5 days. Coming down
from Toronto was one day crossing the lake, 4 in the canal, one more on
the Hudson to get close to the city, or 6 days. Further along, I can't
help you.

New Jersey is the biggest problem - My advice, since you have the speed,
if you have a good window do in in one day. We made the mistake once
heading south of stopping in Atlantic Highlands to site-see for a day,
and ended up stranded for a week.

We figure 4 days to NYC 2days to Albany 4 days in the canal via BUF. Lake Erie
3days, 2days Detroit & St Clair Rivers to Port Huron and 4 days to Mackinaw
You might consider going via the Oswego River and Lake Onterio with a visit to
Toronto. You will need extra crew for the Welland Canal to handle lines, not
required on the NY canal system. Anyway, a good trip, enjoy! Jim

On Tue, 25 Jan 2005 19:34:44 -0500, Steven Shelikoff
wrote:
I'm just curious why, on a trip like that where there are lots of
canals, locks, etc. that can cause all sorts of delays and problems, you
would say New Jersey is the biggest problem.
======================================

That's easy. The New Jersey coast is open to the North Atlantic the
entire distance and can get very rough at times as you surely know,
particularly in the off seasons. No other part of the trip is even
remotely close to those conditions except perhaps for parts of the
Great Lakes.

Steven Shelikoff wrote:
On Tue, 25 Jan 2005 11:55:44 -0500, Jeff Morris
wrote:


New Jersey is the biggest problem - My advice, since you have the speed,
if you have a good window do in in one day. We made the mistake once
heading south of stopping in Atlantic Highlands to site-see for a day,
and ended up stranded for a week.


I'm just curious why, on a trip like that where there are lots of
canals, locks, etc. that can cause all sorts of delays and problems, you
would say New Jersey is the biggest problem. I guess I'm defensive as
the Jersey coast is my home stomping ground. Is it because you have to
do it offshore? Why were you stranded for a week? Weather? It's
*very* rare to have a week of un-navigable weather. A day or two maybe,
3 tops. But not a week.

We were stuck in Atlantic Highland with a "Heavy Surf" advisory for 5
nights, or 4 nights longer than we really wanted. We could have left on
the first day, but with the surf we decided to wait, but it just got
worse. Much of the time we had a 25 to 30 knot east wind, giving us a
bouncy ride even behind the breakwater.

The surf was up in Manasquan but after a day we go bored and made it to
Atlantic City. The East wind really cranked up there - about 35 knots
which pinned us in for 3 more days.

For a local, these might not be nasty conditions (actually there were a
series of strong storms offshore, so even the locals were staying put)
but in New England we don't have to cope much with inlets so I wasn't
eager to try my luck.

My experience in canals, locks, and the ICW has been completely
different. I don't recall any delays of more than an hour for bridges
or locks. Although we should remind the original poster that the Erie
Canal system can be shut down for too much or too little water.

I'd have to say that I've "Done New Jersey" other time with perfect
whether - our return trip a few years ago was a glorious sail, but that
one trip south was perhaps the least memorable cruising experience I've had.



Then again, I've sailed down the coast and then entered Cape May inlet
under some pretty hairy conditions. But Cape May is a beautiful inlet,
well protected with very large jetties and possible to get in to even in
bad conditions. Atlantic City is that way as well.

Yup. There were both easier than I anticipated, but I'm not sure I
would have wanted to try them in 35 knots.

On Wed, 26 Jan 2005 10:22:50 -0500, Steven Shelikoff
wrote:

While it defintely was exciting, we were never in any real danger.

==================================================

Don't kid yourself. If you were running in 12 foot seas, got knocked
down more than 60 degrees near an inlet, fell and cracked your tail
bone, you were in danger.

The original post came from a fellow with a mid-size trawler. 12 foot
seas and 35 kt winds while running inlets are not something that I'd
choose choose for my boat. If something goes wrong, it's a recipe for
disaster. Power boats are much more easily capsized in those
conditions than sail but a surfing broach down the front of a breaking
wave is not much fun in either.

Steven Shelikoff wrote:

I'm just curious why, on a trip like that where there are lots of
canals, locks, etc. that can cause all sorts of delays and problems, you
would say New Jersey is the biggest problem.

....


Well, to make a long story short, We made it behind the jetty and once
there, everything was smooth and easy. What a wonderful inlet Cape May
is. While it defintely was exciting, we were never in any real danger.


I think you just answered your own question.

Steven Shelikoff wrote:
On Wed, 26 Jan 2005 12:03:21 -0500, Jeff Morris
wrote:


Steven Shelikoff wrote:


I'm just curious why, on a trip like that where there are lots of
canals, locks, etc. that can cause all sorts of delays and problems, you
would say New Jersey is the biggest problem.

Well, to make a long story short, We made it behind the jetty and once
there, everything was smooth and easy. What a wonderful inlet Cape May
is. While it defintely was exciting, we were never in any real danger.


I think you just answered your own question.


Hmmm, I'm not sure I did. To tell the truth, personally I'd rather have
an exciting but non-dangerous sail down the coast offshore than motor
for hours on end in canals. But that's just me. Now for a trawler, I
suppose the canal is preferred. But like I said previously, except for
your 5 day period, you usually can find a nice relatively calm day on
the coast without waiting for too long.

An offshore sail in 25 to 30 knots is certainly exciting and not that
dangerous for a well-found vessel. However, a strong East wind off NJ
is usually caused by storms out to sea, and the the ride is not always
fun for everyone. (I don't mind it, but my wife and then 5 year old
don't like bouncing around all day.) But the real issue is the inlets,
which can get dangerous in these conditions. While Cape May and
Atlantic City are considered "all weather," they are the only such
inlets in a 100 mile stretch. Given your description of Cape May ("Seas
right at the inlet were easily 15 feet, ... The combination of seas and
wind knocked us down further than I've ever been and ever want to go
again"), I'm not sure you would have wanted to do Manasquan in those
conditions. As a New Englander, I've run very few inlets and really
have no desire to try my luck in these conditions, especially with my
family on board.

Frankly, I'm surprised that you don't understand how this stretch can be
problematical for some people. Whether you're willing and able to
handle the conditions, you certainly have to be aware of them. For the
OP with a 10 knot trawler, there shouldn't be a problem, but if they go
out thinking, "if it gets real hairy we'll just pop into Barnegat Inlet"
they could be in for a surprise.

The locks and the canals on the rest of the trip might be tedious, but
they aren't challenging for most people, and that's what I meant when I
originally said "New Jersey is the biggest problem."

As for the difference between offshore and canal traveling, that's a
matter of choice. I'll agree that nothing beats a great offshore sail,
but the reward of the inland route is that you get to visit every town
along the way. On this trip a few years ago I wanted to visit all the
towns that I had passed by in a hurry on previous cruises. Frankly,
most of it I enjoyed a lot, though there are a few stretches where "once
was enough."

And for the OP's Baltimore-Mackinac delivery, of course, there aren't a
lot of options if time is a factor, though I'm curious if Lake Erie
would be faster for him then Trent-Severn.



The exception to this would be if your boat can't make it through the
Cape May canal because of height or draft and you have to go through the
mouth of the bay. A mid-sized trawler would have no problem in the
canal but a larger sailboat would. The mouth of the bay can be rough
even when everything else is fine. So it's not unheard of to find boats
on the southern trip waiting in Cape May Harbor or on the northern trip
waiting in Engineers Cove for a few days until they can round the cape
in relative calm. If you can use the canal to cut off rounding the
cape, you definitely want to do that.

The Cape May Canal is one of the few places I've run aground - we were
coming in from the bay side hugging the southern side of the "channel"
when I saw a small power boat ahead suddenly stop. I went full astern,
and only dug a small trench in the sand bar. The locals watching from
the club (restaurant?) across the canal seemed much amused! I'm
guessing I was not the first.

Jeff Morris wrote in
:

Much of the time we had a 25 to 30 knot east wind, giving
us a bouncy ride even behind the breakwater.

The East wind really cranked up there - about 35
knots which pinned us in for 3 more days.


All the real sailors are drooling on their keyboards thinking about that as
she's hauling ass with the rigging just whining....(c;

The shaft alternator is putting out so much current we have to leave all
the lights on...hee hee.