have to choose between Westsail 32 and Union Polaris 36 ..
 

I am in the enviable position of having to choose between these two
boats. Both are heavy cruisers, full-keel, and nice. The W32 needs more
work done, mast repaint and teak deck redone, new engine and more
work on the inside of the boat. The Union Polaris looks great topsides
but needs a new engine also.

What would you do?

I'm not familiar with the Union Polaris 36 but being a Bob Perry design
I'm sure it's a fine boat. I have a Westsail 32 and love it (so I'm
prejudiced ;)

ALL boats will need some work. Not sure if $$$ is an issue but the 36'
boat will cost more to re-fit/commission. Seems the cost of
*everything* on boats increase 'exponentially' the bigger they get. It
will also cost more to maintain/operate long term. Some 'sweat equity'
in the Westsail will only increase its value which you will recoup
later.

Re-powering either boat won't be cheap. My Westsail was recently
repowered from engine (42 hp Universal M50) to prop to the tune of
about $12K. Depending on what you mean by 're-doing', the teak deck on
the Westsail won't likely be cheap either... re-caulking is one thing,
removing/replacing is another.

Does the Union boatyard have a good reputation for quality? Westsails
were clearly overbuilt (1" thick hand laid glass hull, excellent
carpentry, etc.) and have an excellent build quality.

Not saying the Union Polaris won't (I don't know) but Westsails do seem
to hold their value well. In fact, assuming it's maintained they seem
to be appreciating. Compare the price of a Westail 5, 10, 20 years ago
with that of today. How many boats can you say that about?

One nice thing about Westsails is the excellent owners group
(www.woa.org). The ex-GM of Westsail also has a company
(www.westsail.com) that supplies replacement parts & 'stuff' for
Westsails. Point being there is still good support for this classic.

Don't let the 32' length of the Westsail fool you. It's been said a
Westsail is a 40' boat in a 32' hull. It's VERY roomy below with tons
of storage. So much so there is a saying among Westsailers that
something is 'lost on board'. You know you have it but danged if you
can find it in all the lockers available. I've taken to having an
inventory/location list. One Westsailor had his boat for a year and
stumbled across a locker he didn't even know was there.

Depending on the amount of time/money you have to invest fixing the
boat up to fit your wants/needs (and paying for it down the road) it
sounds like either boat would be a good choice. Which one do you like
the best?

On 09 Jan 2005 08:08:55 GMT, (MLapla4120) wrote:

I am in the enviable position of having to choose between these two
boats. Both are heavy cruisers, full-keel, and nice. The W32 needs more
work done, mast repaint and teak deck redone, new engine and more
work on the inside of the boat. The Union Polaris looks great topsides
but needs a new engine also.

What would you do?

Buy the UP on condition a fair engine is fitted and tests
satisfactorily.
What else?

Brian W

MikeM wrote:
I'm not familiar with the Union Polaris 36 but being a Bob Perry design
I'm sure it's a fine boat. I have a Westsail 32 and love it (so I'm
prejudiced ;)


Actually, the Union is an "adaptation" of a Bob Perry design. (In other
words a ropoff. There's a web page with the whole story, but I can't
find it right now.) If you are interested at all in the Union, do
yourself a favor and check out the Baba/Panda/Tashiba boats from Ta
Shing. These are much better boats, from a MUCH better yard, with a
direct relationship to Mr. Perry. We have a Baba 30 and love it (so I'm
prejudiced ;)


--
The email address above is a spam trap. Don't expect a response.
Reach me using firstname at lastname dot net

Cindy Ballreich wrote:
MikeM wrote:
I'm not familiar with the Union Polaris 36 but being a Bob Perry
design I'm sure it's a fine boat. I have a Westsail 32 and love it
(so I'm prejudiced ;)


Actually, the Union is an "adaptation" of a Bob Perry design. (In
other words a ropoff. There's a web page with the whole story, but
I can't find it right now.) If you are interested at all in the
Union, do yourself a favor and check out the Baba/Panda/Tashiba
boats from Ta Shing. These are much better boats, from a MUCH
better yard, with a direct relationship to Mr. Perry. We have a
Baba 30 and love it (so I'm prejudiced ;)

I sailed for a bit with a couple who loved their Union 36. Upon close
inspection I don't believe this boat had the "finish" that is normally
associated with other Perry designs, but the boat did well enough. Also,
the usual caveat for the W 32 is "who finished this boat?" (i.e., factory or
otherwise).

As usual, you must decide what you want this ship for, and how much work you
are capable of (and enthusiastic enough) to complete.

--
Good luck and good sailing.
s/v Kerry Deare of Barnegat
http://kerrydeare.home.comcast.net/

"Cindy Ballreich" wrote in message
...


Actually, the Union is an "adaptation" of a Bob Perry design. (In other
words a ropoff. There's a web page with the whole story, but I can't find
it right now.) If you are interested at all in the Union, do yourself a
favor and check out the Baba/Panda/Tashiba boats from Ta Shing. These are
much better boats, from a MUCH better yard, with a direct relationship to
Mr. Perry. We have a Baba 30 and love it (so I'm prejudiced ;)


In Dan Spurr's book "Heart of Glass" there is section written by Robert
Perry describing his experiences with building boats in Taiwan. The first
boats he designed were the CT series and then he was commissioned by John
Edwards to design a boat to be called the Hans Christian 34. After he
finished the design Edwards took the plans and stretched the boat by 2 feet.
He sold it as the HC 36 and never gave Perry any royalties. Edwards had a
falling out with his boatyard at some point and the yard continued to build
the boat as the Union 36. Other names mentioned are Union Polaris 36 and EO
36.

I had a close look at a Union 36 once and I was favourably impressed. The
interior was nice and very solidly constructed. The teak decks were in
excellent condition. Nice looking boats.
The only thing I recall seeing that caused some concern was the presence of
rust along the welds of the stainless steel tanks underneath the cabin sole.

I finally decided on the Westsail 32. Good
solid boat and lots of space. The Union
had alot of work that needed doing, been
flooded over the floorboards and hadn't been aired or vented in years.
(absentee
owner.) Too much to do on that one and
too many big ifs.

Thanks for your input, and the Perry
story. It goes to show how cut-throat
people can be when it comes to money.
I kind of hate Hans Christians now. It
seems the owners that I have met seem
to snobs that think they have a superior
boat somehow. But they still seem to
have alot of problems.

On 13 Jan 2005 01:01:48 GMT, (MLapla4120) wrote:

I finally decided on the Westsail 32. Good
solid boat and lots of space. The Union
had alot of work that needed doing, been
flooded over the floorboards and hadn't been aired or vented in years.
(absentee
owner.) Too much to do on that one and
too many big ifs.

I recommend the writings of Ferenc Mate. Possibly the most sarcastic
and Hungarian (same thing in my experience) of boat writers, he built
a Westsail 32 and loved it so much he wrote "From a Bare Hull" and
"The Finely Fitted Yacht", both heavy on "improvements" you can
retrofit your Westsail 32 with. If you can laugh at his antique
opinions about his fellow humans, the man's a treasure trove of useful
information, and he treated his Westsail 32 as a test bed for
literally hundreds of clever modifications. Take this and Nigel Calder
and Brion Toss's book on rigging and knots, and there's your sea-going
reference library...G

Also, you've probably heard the following: Westsail 32s are roomy;
they are tanks; they are slow sailers; and they have the strength to
survive storms. All are true, but if you learn to tune your rig
properly, the Westsail, like the Contessas, will show significant
improvement, as will most cruisers not set up for racing.

Enjoy. They are great world cruisers for a couple who like safe and
cozy over wide-open and condo-like, and they tend to get their owners
home.

R.

I would agree that the books by Mate could be useful to a Westsail owner. I
just thought I would mention you can probably buy used copies from Amazon
for a few dollars and have them sent to your mailbox. No need to buy new or
hunt around in used bookstores although that can be fun and you may come
back with an armload of other books.

"rhys" wrote in message
...
On 13 Jan 2005 01:01:48 GMT, (MLapla4120) wrote:

I finally decided on the Westsail 32. Good
solid boat and lots of space. The Union
had alot of work that needed doing, been
flooded over the floorboards and hadn't been aired or vented in years.
(absentee
owner.) Too much to do on that one and
too many big ifs.

I recommend the writings of Ferenc Mate. Possibly the most sarcastic
and Hungarian (same thing in my experience) of boat writers, he built
a Westsail 32 and loved it so much he wrote "From a Bare Hull" and
"The Finely Fitted Yacht", both heavy on "improvements" you can
retrofit your Westsail 32 with. If you can laugh at his antique
opinions about his fellow humans, the man's a treasure trove of useful
information, and he treated his Westsail 32 as a test bed for
literally hundreds of clever modifications. Take this and Nigel Calder
and Brion Toss's book on rigging and knots, and there's your sea-going
reference library...G

Also, you've probably heard the following: Westsail 32s are roomy;
they are tanks; they are slow sailers; and they have the strength to
survive storms. All are true, but if you learn to tune your rig
properly, the Westsail, like the Contessas, will show significant
improvement, as will most cruisers not set up for racing.

Enjoy. They are great world cruisers for a couple who like safe and
cozy over wide-open and condo-like, and they tend to get their owners
home.

R.

On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 16:43:13 GMT, "Gordon Wedman"
wrote:

I would agree that the books by Mate could be useful to a Westsail owner. I
just thought I would mention you can probably buy used copies from Amazon
for a few dollars and have them sent to your mailbox. No need to buy new or
hunt around in used bookstores although that can be fun and you may come
back with an armload of other books.

True. I bought From a Bare Hull used for five bucks and was given a
revised omnibus version of "Finely Fitted Yacht". Mate is so cranky,
he cracks me up.

R.

Thanks for your input. I already have
"From a Bare Hull". It's a good book.
The Westsail is also very similar to
Lynn and Larry Pardey's boat in design
but built in fiberglass instead of wood,
which I prefer so I have their book,'The
Capable Cruiser'. I know my boat still
has 'projects to do', but it's not that bad
and I can do alot of it myself with simple
tools and the space is there to do it without tearing stuff up. There are no
blisters or structural problems. This
is on a 29 year old boat. So I guess
that speaks for itself and explains why
they don't depreciate.