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Radar burst SOS device
I have never used radar so this idea may be useless (ok, so almost all
of em are) but..... Producing an intense burst of RF is fairly easy by firing a magnet through a properly shaped coil. This is done in new EMP weapons where the power output is high enough to fry nearby electronics. So, why not use the same idea in a 12 guage shell dsigned to fit in one of those flare launchers. The charge fires the magnet through the coil (this is destructive as the coil disintegrates) producing a short intense pulse of RF that will appear on the radar scope. Maybe it could also fire a cloud of chaff into the air to make a longer lasting return. The idea is that the initial pulse will get the operators attention and then the chaff would allow him to see the source. |
Unless the pulse is tied in timing to the one that is sent out by the
receiving sets, there will be no distance information. It wouldn't help people find you at all. Radio and GPS have obsoleted this kind of thing. "Hi, I'm here within this 30 foot diameter circle. Come save me." Even my cell phone has GPS in it now. -- Roger Long wrote in message oups.com... I have never used radar so this idea may be useless (ok, so almost all of em are) but..... Producing an intense burst of RF is fairly easy by firing a magnet through a properly shaped coil. This is done in new EMP weapons where the power output is high enough to fry nearby electronics. So, why not use the same idea in a 12 guage shell dsigned to fit in one of those flare launchers. The charge fires the magnet through the coil (this is destructive as the coil disintegrates) producing a short intense pulse of RF that will appear on the radar scope. Maybe it could also fire a cloud of chaff into the air to make a longer lasting return. The idea is that the initial pulse will get the operators attention and then the chaff would allow him to see the source. |
wrote in message oups.com... of RF that will appear on the radar scope. Maybe it could also fire a cloud of chaff into the air to make a longer lasting return. The idea is that the initial pulse will get the operators attention and then the chaff would allow him to see the source. Your proposal makes the assumption that someone is watching the radar screen at the time of the RF burst. This is normally not the case on pleasure or commercial vessels. Most watch standers only take a quick scan of the radar display at infrequent intervals or at best, when they are in close proximity of another vessel or tricky navigation situations. It is possible to set a radar to trigger a zone alarm but this frequently 'false triggers' and is seldom used (in my experience). I have sailed as crew on recreational, commercial and Navy vessels and only the latter has a dedicated radar watch (combat information center, CIC). Generally the watch(person) only 'concentrates' on the radar information in the extreme information mentioned earlier. Monitoring the radar is only one of many equally important responsibilities of a watch(person). I believe that a good selection of flares is the best way to attract attention (assuming the other vessel has a proper watch 'on deck'. My opinion and experience. FWIW Steve s/v Good Intentions |
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"Steve" wrote: wrote in message oups.com... of RF that will appear on the radar scope. Maybe it could also fire a cloud of chaff into the air to make a longer lasting return. The idea is that the initial pulse will get the operators attention and then the chaff would allow him to see the source. Your proposal makes the assumption that someone is watching the radar screen at the time of the RF burst. And the radar antenna in question is pointed directly at the source of the RF Burst. since most radar have a 2.5 to 5.0 degree Horozontal beamwidth, divided by 360 equals, from less than 1% of the time, to slightly more than 1% of the time. Would you bet your LIFE on 1%? Also getting an RF Burst, of sufficent power, in Xband out of a magnet and coil as you invision, is Exteremly Problematic, and not likely. Much better to own an Xband Radar Transponder that will reply whenever it is interigated by an Xband radar, which will give distance and range information to the radar screen. These have been around for years, but they cost a bit much for noncommecial operators. Every SOLAS Required Vessel has one or more onboard. This is normally not the case on pleasure or commercial vessels. Most watch standers only take a quick scan of the radar display at infrequent intervals or at best, when they are in close proximity of another vessel or tricky navigation situations. It is possible to set a radar to trigger a zone alarm but this frequently 'false triggers' and is seldom used (in my experience). I have sailed as crew on recreational, commercial and Navy vessels and only the latter has a dedicated radar watch (combat information center, CIC). Generally the watch(person) only 'concentrates' on the radar information in the extreme information mentioned earlier. Monitoring the radar is only one of many equally important responsibilities of a watch(person). I believe that a good selection of flares is the best way to attract attention (assuming the other vessel has a proper watch 'on deck'. My opinion and experience. FWIW Steve s/v Good Intentions Bruce in alaska -- add a 2 before @ |
I believe that a good selection of flares is the best way to attract
attention (assuming the other vessel has a proper watch 'on deck'. I was once sinking in the middle of the night in Buzzards Bay. I was pretty sure I could manage the situation and decided not to fire off flares at the line of fishing vessels that were headed into New Bedford. Then I realized that they were very likely to run me down because the boat was small and I was pretty low in the water. I decided to fire off a few flares. If they stopped, I'd ask them to report me (no radio) and carry on. I fired off my flares when I was right in front of them. They never saw me. -- Roger Long |
On Tue, 04 Jan 2005 21:15:22 GMT, "Roger Long"
wrote: I fired off my flares when I was right in front of them. They never saw me. ======================= The only flares I've ever seen that looked like they would really be useful in an emergency are those that are SOLAS certified. A SOLAS parachute flare is an awesome sight and it has a peak altitude of about 1,000 feet. On the other hand, I doubt that the New Bedford fishing fleet would stop for anything on the way home, not even a cold beer or a comely deck hand. |
where do you get a cell phone with a GPS built into it?
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.... or ignored you.
-- Keith __ The secret of a good sermon is to have a good beginning and a good ending; and have the two as close together as possible. -George Burns "Roger Long" wrote in message ... I believe that a good selection of flares is the best way to attract attention (assuming the other vessel has a proper watch 'on deck'. I was once sinking in the middle of the night in Buzzards Bay. I was pretty sure I could manage the situation and decided not to fire off flares at the line of fishing vessels that were headed into New Bedford. Then I realized that they were very likely to run me down because the boat was small and I was pretty low in the water. I decided to fire off a few flares. If they stopped, I'd ask them to report me (no radio) and carry on. I fired off my flares when I was right in front of them. They never saw me. -- Roger Long |
I'll second that. The SOLAS handheld flares are MUCH brighter than those
Orion or automotive types. Once I saw them in action, that's all I'll carry now. I'll describe it like this... if you look at one, you're going to have a green spot in your vision just like someone flashed a flashbulb right in your fact. They are REALLY bright. -- Keith __ Why do we say something is out of whack? What's a whack? "Wayne.B" wrote in message ... On Tue, 04 Jan 2005 21:15:22 GMT, "Roger Long" wrote: I fired off my flares when I was right in front of them. They never saw me. ======================= The only flares I've ever seen that looked like they would really be useful in an emergency are those that are SOLAS certified. A SOLAS parachute flare is an awesome sight and it has a peak altitude of about 1,000 feet. On the other hand, I doubt that the New Bedford fishing fleet would stop for anything on the way home, not even a cold beer or a comely deck hand. |
On 5 Jan 2005 03:38:37 -0800, "akcarlos" wrote:
where do you get a cell phone with a GPS built into it? They all have it. They don't tell you where you are, but they tell the cel station where you are if use 911, for example. Rodney Myrvaagnes J36 Gjo/a Entering your freshman dorm for the first time, and seeing an axe head come through the door on your right. |
On Wed, 05 Jan 2005 13:00:45 -0500, Rodney Myrvaagnes
wrote: where do you get a cell phone with a GPS built into it? They all have it. They don't tell you where you are, but they tell the cel station where you are if use 911, for example. Big Brother is Watching. ;-) SJ Zouaves, CRPA & GOA Life, GOC, NRA, Hurrah CMP |
thats not GPS , I asked about GPS in cellphones.
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The manual for my cell phone (Samsung SPH A-460) refers to an internal GPS
used to locate the phone. I normally have it (the GPS function) turned off but the manual states it will override and turn on GPS if I make a 911 call. I did a quick Google on "GPS cell phone" and found a bunch of info including: "assisted GPS, a form of location detection in which cell phone towers help GPS satellites fix a cell phone caller's position" "Enhanced 911 - Mobile phone companies are under orders from the U.S. Federal Communications Commission to incorporate some kind of location-reporting technology into cellular phones. Dubbed E-911, or enhanced 911, the communication initiative is meant to give law enforcement and emergency services personnel a way to find people calling 911 from mobile phones when callers don't know where they are or are unable to say. The FCC issued waivers permitting carriers to add location-detection services to new phones over time, so that 95 percent of all mobile phones are compliant with E-911 rules by 2005." Interesting... -- Ken Heaton & Anne Tobin Cape Breton Island, Canada kenheaton AT ess wye dee DOT eastlink DOT ca "akcarlos" wrote in message ups.com... thats not GPS , I asked about GPS in cellphones. |
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On Thu, 06 Jan 2005 00:44:01 GMT, "Ken Heaton"
wrote: The manual for my cell phone (Samsung SPH A-460) refers to an internal GPS used to locate the phone. I normally have it (the GPS function) turned off but the manual states it will override and turn on GPS if I make a 911 call. I did a quick Google on "GPS cell phone" and found a bunch of info including: "assisted GPS, a form of location detection in which cell phone towers help GPS satellites fix a cell phone caller's position" "Enhanced 911 - Mobile phone companies are under orders from the U.S. Federal Communications Commission to incorporate some kind of location-reporting technology into cellular phones. Dubbed E-911, or enhanced 911, the communication initiative is meant to give law enforcement and emergency services personnel a way to find people calling 911 from mobile phones when callers don't know where they are or are unable to say. The FCC issued waivers permitting carriers to add location-detection services to new phones over time, so that 95 percent of all mobile phones are compliant with E-911 rules by 2005." A few kidnapping victims thrown in trunks have been found this way, and similar technology is used in tracking stolen cars, I believe. The only problem would be range: digital phones die about 1.5 NM offshore, and analog (when you can FIND one) not only likely don't have the GPS feature (too antique) but have a typical range similar to a hand-held VHF...line of sight or 5-6 NM. EPIRB with GPS if offshore, otherwise, just swim for it G R. |
On Tue, 4 Jan 2005 06:42:56 -0800, "Steve" wrote:
I believe that a good selection of flares is the best way to attract attention (assuming the other vessel has a proper watch 'on deck'. Speaking as someone who's spoken to a fellow cruiser who had to fire a flare AT a watchperson to get them to see him (tip: aim high because flares drop into a parabola rapidly), I think there's an issue with the declining practice of watch-keeping in an age of bleeping gadgets. |
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rhys wrote: The only problem would be range: digital phones die about 1.5 NM offshore, and analog (when you can FIND one) not only likely don't have the GPS feature (too antique) but have a typical range similar to a hand-held VHF...line of sight or 5-6 NM. Maybe the laws of Physics are different in your universe, but up here in alaska, and on the west coast of the USA, we routinely have Digital Cell coverage out to 20 miles, and there really isn't much difference in coverage between analog, and digital in the 800 Mhz Cellphone band. It could be that the poster is confusing Cellular and PCS, in which case he/she should specify the definition of the system they are discussing. PCS has significantly smaller cell coverage areas, due to the fact that it use frequencies more than triple the Cellular frequencysin the 800 Mhz band. If you have a Handheld Marine VHF that can only communicate out to 6 miles over water, you need to have it checked out by a compitant Tech, because it is certainly not operating correctly. I can sit in my cabin and communicate with vessels transiting the 16 mile wide Straight, anywhere within that area, with my simple Motorola Marine Triton Handheld Vhf Radio, as it was produced at the factory. Me |
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JGS jgs123@comcast^dot^net wrote: Hi Bruce Without a doubt, you are referring to SARTs (Search And Rescue (Radar) Transponders Link he http://www.gmdss.com.au/survival.htm The SOLAS GMDSS regulations are structured such that all GMDSS ships are required to carry a minimum set of equipment, with (basically) more equipment being required the further the ship travels from land. SARTs are a requirement for any SOLAS GMDSS certified ship. One SART if under 500 GRT, 2 SARTs if over 500 GRT. So for the OP, the concept (while a different implementation) isn't new, the technology is already in place. The following link gives a pretty darn good description of GMDSS regulations and why they were put into place. It makes an interesting read. http://www.gmdss.com.au/index.html Regards JGS Yep, used to Inspect them when doing Yearly Required SOLAS Inspections. It was always fun to watch the Lifeboat Drill, when they were out running around with the Transponder turned on. On one of the ARPA Screens, the SART would lay down a track on the screen, wherever they went. Alot different then back in the old days when the crew had to demonstrate the GibsonGirl HF Transceiver Pack, during Lifeboat Drills. Bruce in alaska -- add a 2 before @ |
True, I'm worth a lot less per pound than haddock was in those days.
-- Roger Long "Keith" wrote in message ... ... or ignored you. -- Keith __ The secret of a good sermon is to have a good beginning and a good ending; and have the two as close together as possible. -George Burns "Roger Long" wrote in message ... I believe that a good selection of flares is the best way to attract attention (assuming the other vessel has a proper watch 'on deck'. I was once sinking in the middle of the night in Buzzards Bay. I was pretty sure I could manage the situation and decided not to fire off flares at the line of fishing vessels that were headed into New Bedford. Then I realized that they were very likely to run me down because the boat was small and I was pretty low in the water. I decided to fire off a few flares. If they stopped, I'd ask them to report me (no radio) and carry on. I fired off my flares when I was right in front of them. They never saw me. -- Roger Long |
On Sat, 08 Jan 2005 20:38:50 GMT, Bruce in Alaska wrote:
they went. Alot different then back in the old days when the crew had to demonstrate the GibsonGirl HF Transceiver Pack, during Lifeboat Drills. Bruce in alaska Ah yes...the GibsonGirl. I think we nick-named it Hurtie-Girtie. I only used one once. While in the Navy, us aircrew types were taken out into one of the bays in Oahu, where we were rudely pushed over board. A big yellow canister followed, and we were to deploy the enclosed life raft, climb aboard, exercise the survival gear, including the GibsonGirl. After bobbing around for a couple of hours, a chopper plucked us out of the water one at a time, and desposited us on shore, next to a highway. Cars were lined up for a half-mile watching the whole affair. Great fun for a 18 year old (barely) sailor. Norm B |
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JGS jgs123@comcast^dot^net wrote: I couldn't resist doing a google for Gibson Girl. Found her :) http://aog.ussnoxubee.com/electronics.html What an interesting read. Thanks!! Regards JGS Getting one of those between your legs and cranking the internal generator, was a once in a lifetime experience, for most folks. Yea, they all said once in a lifetime is enough. Kind of puts a crimp in your energy output after an hour or so..... Bruce in alaska -- add a 2 before @ |
On Sun, 09 Jan 2005 18:58:48 -0500, JGS jgs123@comcast^dot^net
wrote: /// Since Bruce mentioned it, I have been trying to find a picture of the Gibson Girl.... but I have not found a picture of the unit itself. I am guessing it looked similar to the Notsender NS2 shown he http://home.hccnet.nl/l.meulstee/gibsongirl/gibsongirl.html Thanks for an interesting thread. Regards JGS Look down page for (US) SCR-578 at the same URL. This *is* a Gibson Girl. Brian W |
Look down page for (US) SCAR-578 at the same URL.
This *is* a Gibson Girl. The ones that I remember seeing in our avionics shop were the AN/CRT-3. I believe they were in for a frequency change,. This was around 1960. My area was overhauling the ARC-27 at that time. Leanne |
On Thu, 06 Jan 2005 19:45:03 GMT, Me wrote:
f you have a Handheld Marine VHF that can only communicate out to 6 miles over water, you need to have it checked out by a compitant Tech, because it is certainly not operating correctly. I am referring to using a Standard Horizon VHF handheld (a 260S...nice unit) while bobbing in a Zodiac a mile south of the Leslie St. Spit at Toronto and raising my wife at dock (42 feet of mast height) at Ontario Place. The signal must transit several low islands (Toronto Islands) and I found that six to seven miles at dawn was about as good as I got. If I am a mile south of the Islands in the main boat, I can frequently hear U.S. Coast Guard traffic in Youngstown, 24 miles or so south south east. So I don't think there's a problem, but I am merely pointing out a worst-case scenario. The wife commented she had trouble hearing me: I heard her 5 by 5 on 06. I could also raise Prescott Radio (Canadian Coast Guard) which is miles away and a few repeaters (Oakville, Fonthill, etc.). I reported a nav hazard (a twelve-foot tree limb low in the water) in Ashbridge's Bay early in the morning on a Sunday,and was gratified to get an immediate response. I gave 'em the GPS co-ords and went on my merry way. |
http://mcgp.cellmail.com/photogallery/gibson-girl.JPG
http://www.rtpnet.org/robroy/targetk...e/gibson02.jpg http://www.rtpnet.org/robroy/targetk...e/gibson03.jpg http://www.rtpnet.org/robroy/targetk...e/gibson04.jpg http://www.qsl.net/zl2bbb/Kapiti%20R...ibson_girl.jpg http://www.qsl.net/pe1ngz/airforce/l...on-girl-uk.jpg http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/modern_flight/c47gg.htm http://www.northnorfolk.org/nnarg/exhibits.htm http://www.greenradio.de/b_gibsona.htm Hope I helped. Donny www.picturetrail.com/sixbennetts You most certainly did help! I was not familiar with Google pictures at all. Seems as if I have to learn what Google pictures is all about. Many thanks!!!! Regards JGS Glad I could help. Donny www.picturetrail.com/sixbennetts |
"rhys" wrote
I could also raise Prescott Radio (Canadian Coast Guard) which is miles away and a few repeaters (Oakville, Fonthill, etc.). I wasn't aware there are repeaters on the authorized marine channels. There's nothing like that out here on the west coast of Canada. |
In article 5iKEd.47483$Xk.14784@pd7tw3no, "Richard P."
wrote: "rhys" wrote I could also raise Prescott Radio (Canadian Coast Guard) which is miles away and a few repeaters (Oakville, Fonthill, etc.). I wasn't aware there are repeaters on the authorized marine channels. There's nothing like that out here on the west coast of Canada. I think he was refering to Mountain Top Remote Radio Sites, that both the US and Canadian Coast Guards use out here on the Left Coast..... Actually there is a provision in Part 80, for Repeaters on Marine VHF Channels, and they actually are used in certain places in alaska.... Bruce in alaska -- add a 2 before @ |
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