Windy
 

With all the recent discussion about wind and wave estimates, I have to pass
along this experience.

It's blowing hard here in Maine today. I went out to the airport to check my
plane and was glad I did. The cabin cover had come loose and was beating
against the sides. The heavy, insulated engine cover had blown right over
the nose and let the oil door pop open. The plane had walked forward even
though chocked. Pushing it back against the wind took real effort. When the
tie downs slacked as I pushed it back, the plane started dancing and
bouncing hard against the ropes. I put a second tie down rope on the tail
and noticed that just the distraction of the wind in my face made it hard to
untangle the line and tie a knot as efficiently as normal.

It was pretty sobering to watch the control surfaces slating and moving even
though they are all secured with gust locks. The tie down area sounded like
a bunch of elves were banging tin cans flat as the rudders of the many
planes with casual owners slammed back and forth in the wind. As I walked
back, the wind was strong enough that I had to lean forward slightly and
push against it. I realized that I will be sailing again in a few short
months and thought, Wow! This was all happening on firm, solid, asphalt.

When I got back inside, I got out my cell phone and dialed the weather
number in the control tower. "22 gusting to 32" and this is measured 50 to
60 feet up in the clear air above the wind gradient. I'll bet there are a
lot of sailors, probably some in this newsgroup, who have never seen 30
knots of wind while out on the water.

--

Roger Long

"Roger Long" wrote in message
...
When I got back inside, I got out my cell phone and dialed the weather
number in the control tower. "22 gusting to 32" and this is measured 50 to
60 feet up in the clear air above the wind gradient. I'll bet there are a
lot of sailors, probably some in this newsgroup, who have never seen 30
knots of wind while out on the water.




Really? It happens regularly here in NZ. It's not hard to manage in
coastal waters but with a swell it gets nasty. Reef down big time and hold
on tight.

Dan

I said, "a lot"; not "most". I would agree that anyone who sails regularly
or cruises any distance has probably seen 30 or higher. A lot of people who
daysail occasionally and pick their weather may think they have seen 30 but
probably haven't.

I realized today that I've forgotten just how strong 22 gusting 32 feels and
how easy it would be to thing it was much more, especially if you were
banging around in a boat. I've spent most of the last decade flying and I
mostly stay in when it gets over 20.

I know I've seen more. I remember trying to head out in a catboat when I
was really young and foolish. Two reefs weren't enough so I put in the
third which put about 18 inches between the tack and throat, basically just
the peak of the gaff as a storm sail. I couldn't make any progress to
windward so I dropped the sail and started running back into Tenants Harbor
under the bare pole.

I started the engine and couldn't seem to get it to go into gear. It just
kept racing like the prop wasn't engaged. I was in a panic because the end
of the harbor was coming up fast and I had no power. I realized just in
time that the boat was going so fast under the mast alone that the prop was
being pulled through the water faster than the engine usually pushed the
boat.

The engine took hold when I rounded up fast to grab a mooring. It wouldn't
push the boat to windward but it held it long enough for me to run forward
and grab the buoy. Otherwise, I would have been on the beach. I have no
idea what it was blowing that day but, just before I turned around, the
splume blowing across the surface looked just like snow blowing across a
road, not streaks on the water but streams of spray blowing at wind speed.

BTW the airport says it's 22 gusting 45 now. It's a dark and stormy night
for sure.

--

Roger Long



"Max Mustermann" wrote in message
age.info...
On Thu, 23 Dec 2004, "Roger Long" wrote:

Snipped

When I got back inside, I got out my cell phone and dialed the weather
number in the control tower. "22 gusting to 32" and this is measured 50 to
60 feet up in the clear air above the wind gradient. I'll bet there are a
lot of sailors, probably some in this newsgroup, who have never seen 30
knots of wind while out on the water.

--

Roger Long


Roger, you have to get out more. You're referring to a barely Fresh
breeze.
Have a look at the following link:

http://www.world-of-islands.com/Info...eaufort_en.htm

I would have to say most of us regular boaters have been on the water in a
30+ breeze. Might not have liked it, but dealt with it OK.

****. It really is a bad night. The airport just called to tell me that
the big twin on the next tie down jumped its chocks and blew into our plane.
I'm waiting for a damage report.

--

Roger Long

Exhaust pipe flattened and cowl dented. Doesn't sound like much but cowls
go for fifteen grand and everything down to the manifold and mounts will
have to be disassembled and checked for cracks.

Who would have thought? The plane that hit us was on the side and the wind
was directly on the tail. The twin jumped one chock and pivoted around over
90 degrees on either the wing tie down or the other chock and its nose came
up and hit ours from the downwind side.

--

Roger Long



"Max Mustermann" wrote in message
age.info...
On Fri, 24 Dec 2004, "Roger Long" wrote:
****. It really is a bad night. The airport just called to tell me that
the big twin on the next tie down jumped its chocks and blew into our
plane.
I'm waiting for a damage report.

--

Roger Long

Sorry to hear that. Let us know when you find out.

Good Luck!

On Friday 24 December 2004 12:08 pm in rec.boats.cruising Roger Long wrote:

Exhaust pipe flattened and cowl dented. Doesn't sound like much but cowls
go for fifteen grand and everything down to the manifold and mounts will
have to be disassembled and checked for cracks.

Who would have thought? The plane that hit us was on the side and the
wind was directly on the tail. The twin jumped one chock and pivoted
around over 90 degrees on either the wing tie down or the other chock and
its nose came up and hit ours from the downwind side.

The twin was obviously not tied down properly.
Time to call a landshark^Wlawyer and start a negligence
claim.

--
My real address is crn (at) netunix (dot) com
WARNING all messages containing attachments or html will be silently
deleted. Send only plain text.

Most wind to date: 55k southwester. Double reefed main, reefed staysail,
beam reach, boom dragging in the water. Euphoria. In a Westsail 32. (Wet,
all right, but no snail that time.)


"Roger Long" wrote in message
...
With all the recent discussion about wind and wave estimates, I have to
pass along this experience.

It's blowing hard here in Maine today. I went out to the airport to check
my plane and was glad I did. The cabin cover had come loose and was
beating against the sides. The heavy, insulated engine cover had blown
right over the nose and let the oil door pop open. The plane had walked
forward even though chocked. Pushing it back against the wind took real
effort. When the tie downs slacked as I pushed it back, the plane started
dancing and bouncing hard against the ropes. I put a second tie down rope
on the tail and noticed that just the distraction of the wind in my face
made it hard to untangle the line and tie a knot as efficiently as normal.

It was pretty sobering to watch the control surfaces slating and moving
even though they are all secured with gust locks. The tie down area
sounded like a bunch of elves were banging tin cans flat as the rudders of
the many planes with casual owners slammed back and forth in the wind. As
I walked back, the wind was strong enough that I had to lean forward
slightly and push against it. I realized that I will be sailing again in a
few short months and thought, Wow! This was all happening on firm, solid,
asphalt.

When I got back inside, I got out my cell phone and dialed the weather
number in the control tower. "22 gusting to 32" and this is measured 50 to
60 feet up in the clear air above the wind gradient. I'll bet there are a
lot of sailors, probably some in this newsgroup, who have never seen 30
knots of wind while out on the water.

--

Roger Long

Bummer. Sorry about the damage to your airplane.



"Roger Long" wrote in message
...
Exhaust pipe flattened and cowl dented. Doesn't sound like much but cowls
go for fifteen grand and everything down to the manifold and mounts will
have to be disassembled and checked for cracks.

Who would have thought? The plane that hit us was on the side and the
wind was directly on the tail. The twin jumped one chock and pivoted
around over 90 degrees on either the wing tie down or the other chock and
its nose came up and hit ours from the downwind side.

--

Roger Long



"Max Mustermann" wrote in message
age.info...
On Fri, 24 Dec 2004, "Roger Long" wrote:
****. It really is a bad night. The airport just called to tell me that
the big twin on the next tie down jumped its chocks and blew into our
plane.
I'm waiting for a damage report.

--

Roger Long

Sorry to hear that. Let us know when you find out.

Good Luck!

The twin was obviously not tied down properly.
Time to call a landshark^Wlawyer and start a negligence
claim.


Tie what?

Any of you sailors who haven't spent any time around small planes and need a
laugh should go out to your local GA airport and look at what passes for
ropes and knots. On the way back from securing my plane, I walked by a .3
million dollar, all glass cockpit (all computer screen display), brand new
182 Skylane. It was tied with 5/16 inch clothesline using the most popular
aviation knot which is two half hitches but with about six inches between
the ring and first and another six inches to the second. We stopped and
told the plane's owner about it but it was tied exactly the same way this
morning. Of course, it didn't go anywhere so maybe he knows something that
generations of sailors haven't learned yet.

The twin didn't have any ropes at all.

--

Roger Long



"Chris Newport" wrote in message
news:1121543.jmOm3aoO7D@callisto...

On Fri, 24 Dec 2004 09:17:42 -0800, "R.W. Behan"
wrote:

Most wind to date: 55k southwester. Double reefed main, reefed staysail,
beam reach, boom dragging in the water. Euphoria. In a Westsail 32. (Wet,
all right, but no snail that time.)

Hey, don't they start to move properly at that windspeed? G

Just kidding: I have great respect for a boat that Ferenc Mate can't
insult and that survived The Perfect Storm without a crew (google
"Perfect Storm and Katana" for the REAL story...never leave the boat
except to step up into the liferaft!)

R.

Hey! That's my quote:)

An incredible proportion of abandoned vessels are later found floating.
They may be waterlogged but they are a lot more solid than a liferaft.
Schooner Curlew 1962 is another famous example.

--

Roger Long


"...never leave the boat except to step up into the liferaft!)

R.

I didn't get a hit on that google suggestion. I know the real story and
have met some of the people involved but I would enjoy reading the account.
Can you provide a link?

--

Roger Long


Just kidding: I have great respect for a boat that Ferenc Mate can't
insult and that survived The Perfect Storm without a crew (google
"Perfect Storm and Katana" for the REAL story...never leave the boat
except to step up into the liferaft!)

R.

That Westsail you speak did NOT survive the "Perfect Storm", for it wasn't
anywhere near the Perfect Storm. That Westsail was off Montauk in 40 knot
winds. No great shakes, even if two inexperienced crew were scared.

survived The Perfect Storm

Katari - and the original author removed it from the web. You'll have to do
some extra research to find the story - but, aside from it's being very
defensive and self serving by the captain who let the two girls get on the
radio, it's a pretty good read.

L8R

Skip

--
Morgan 461 #2
SV Flying Pig
http://tinyurl.com/384p2

"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you
didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail
away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore.
Dream. Discover." - Mark Twain
"Roger Long" wrote in message
...
I didn't get a hit on that google suggestion. I know the real story and
have met some of the people involved but I would enjoy reading the
account.
Can you provide a link?

--

Roger Long


Just kidding: I have great respect for a boat that Ferenc Mate can't
insult and that survived The Perfect Storm without a crew (google
"Perfect Storm and Katana" for the REAL story...never leave the boat
except to step up into the liferaft!)

R.

Oops. Satori...

http://world.std.com/~kent/satori/

--
Morgan 461 #2
SV Flying Pig
http://tinyurl.com/384p2

"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you
didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail
away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore.
Dream. Discover." - Mark Twain
"Roger Long" wrote in message
...
I didn't get a hit on that google suggestion. I know the real story and
have met some of the people involved but I would enjoy reading the
account.
Can you provide a link?

--

Roger Long


Just kidding: I have great respect for a boat that Ferenc Mate can't
insult and that survived The Perfect Storm without a crew (google
"Perfect Storm and Katana" for the REAL story...never leave the boat
except to step up into the liferaft!)

R.

On Mon, 27 Dec 2004 21:42:15 GMT, "Roger Long"
wrote:

I didn't get a hit on that google suggestion. I know the real story and
have met some of the people involved but I would enjoy reading the account.
Can you provide a link?

My error: Katana's the name of another boat that hit a storm and lived
to sail again. The boat's name was "Satori" and here's the relevant
link:

http://world.std.com/~kent/satori/

R.

With the benefit of some professional involvement in sailing vessel safety
and accident investigation, I found his account quite convincing. I would
fault him only for failure to control the use of the radio.

--

Roger Long



"rhys" wrote in message
...
My error: Katana's the name of another boat that hit a storm and lived
to sail again. The boat's name was "Satori" and here's the relevant
link:

http://world.std.com/~kent/satori/

R.

Is the wind really that low in the states?
It is regularly gets above 30 knots here, the most I have sailed in
in the Hauraki gulf is 55 knots (thats the marine forecast not my
guessing)
at the moment it is gusting to 40 knots .
"
Colville coastal forecast

Issued at: 4:40 pm 29 Dec 2004 NZDT
Valid to: 11:59 am 30 Dec 2004 NZDT
Forecast
*GALE WARNING IN FORCE*
Northeast rising to 40 knots this evening. Sea very rough. Northerly
swell rising to 3 metres. Poor visibility in rain.
Outlook
following 12 hours: Becoming northwest 25 knots."
http://www.metservice.co.nz/default/...olvillecoastal

On Tue, 28 Dec 2004 19:20:29 GMT, "Roger Long"
wrote:

With the benefit of some professional involvement in sailing vessel safety
and accident investigation, I found his account quite convincing. I would
fault him only for failure to control the use of the radio.

Yes, that's what I got from it. He was good on sailing the boat and
keeping his OWN nerve, but for whatever reason (bad judgment in taking
newbie crew aboard in the first place?) he could neither convey this
to the crew nor control them by example.

Whatever the dynamics were (and I can't blame anyone inexperienced for
losing it in appalling conditions), it's a tribute to the Westsail 32
that it rode out the storm and was salvaged by its owner (dumb luck!)
to continue to have a good life as a famous little tank of a sailboat.

R.

That reminds me to check out the Sydney-Hobart results. With all the
tsunami news, it's fallen off the news radar.

On 29 Dec 2004 00:53:27 -0800, "akcarlos"
wrote:

Is the wind really that low in the states?
It is regularly gets above 30 knots here, the most I have sailed in
in the Hauraki gulf is 55 knots (thats the marine forecast not my
guessing)
at the moment it is gusting to 40 knots .
"
Colville coastal forecast

Issued at: 4:40 pm 29 Dec 2004 NZDT
Valid to: 11:59 am 30 Dec 2004 NZDT
Forecast
*GALE WARNING IN FORCE*
Northeast rising to 40 knots this evening. Sea very rough. Northerly
swell rising to 3 metres. Poor visibility in rain.
Outlook
following 12 hours: Becoming northwest 25 knots."
http://www.metservice.co.nz/default/...olvillecoastal

This was the hourly weather two days ago as observed at St. Paul Island,
just to the north of Cape Breton Island where I live. Needless to say we
didn't go sailing, it was too cold for me... (yes, that's 109 km/hr).

Cabot Strait
(Observations at St. Paul Island)
Hourly Data Report for December 27, 2004

Time/Temp°C/Dew Point Temp°C/Rel Hum%/Wind Dir10's deg/Wind Spd
km/h/Visibility km/Stn Press kPa/Wind Chill

00:40 -5.9 -9.9 73 5 41 M 102.68 -15
01:40 -6.2 -8.3 85 6 46 M 102.42 -16
02:40 -6.8 -8.8 86 7 44 M 102.24 -17
03:40 -7.5 -8.5 93 7 50 M 101.95 -18
04:40 -6.8 -7.3 96 7 52 M 101.89 -18
05:40 -6.6 -7.2 95 6 56 M 101.68 -18
06:40 -6.5 -7.2 95 7 59 M 101.40 -18
07:00 -6.2 -6.9 95 7 63 M 101.22 -18
08:40 -5.9 -6.4 96 6 70 M 100.76 -18
09:00 -6.2 -6.7 96 6 76 M 100.51 -18
10:00 -6.0 -6.3 98 6 82 M 100.15 -18
11:00 -5.1 -5.7 96 6 82 M 99.79 -17
12:00 -5.6 -6.0 97 5 80 M 99.39 -18
13:00 -5.4 -5.7 98 5 76 M 98.94 -17
14:00 -5.5 -5.8 98 4 85 M 98.33 -18
15:00 -4.5 -4.7 99 4 74 M 98.17 -16
16:00 -3.8 -3.9 99 4 70 M 97.52 -15
17:00 -3.0 -3.1 99 3 69 M 97.15 -13
18:00 -2.0 -2.0 100 1 74 M 96.86 -12
19:00 -1.9 -1.9 100 35 91 M 96.70 -13
20:40 -2.1 -2.1 100 33 98 M 97.00 -14
21:40 -3.8 -3.8 100 31 109 M 97.33 -17
22:00 -3.6 -3.6 100 32 107 M 97.46 -16
23:00 -4.7 -4.8 99 31 104 M 97.92 -18


--
Ken Heaton, Cape Breton Island, Nova Scotia, Canada
email to: (kenheaton AT eastlink DOT ca)

"akcarlos" wrote in message
ups.com...
Is the wind really that low in the states?
It is regularly gets above 30 knots here, the most I have sailed in
in the Hauraki gulf is 55 knots (thats the marine forecast not my
guessing)
at the moment it is gusting to 40 knots .
"
Colville coastal forecast

Issued at: 4:40 pm 29 Dec 2004 NZDT
Valid to: 11:59 am 30 Dec 2004 NZDT
Forecast
*GALE WARNING IN FORCE*
Northeast rising to 40 knots this evening. Sea very rough. Northerly
swell rising to 3 metres. Poor visibility in rain.
Outlook
following 12 hours: Becoming northwest 25 knots."
http://www.metservice.co.nz/default/...olvillecoastal

so it seems that at least some parts of the world have no choice at
sailing in winds
above 30 knots.
I wonder where these people who have never sailed in 30 knot winds
live, I cant see how anybody could sailing regularly and never go out
in 30 knot wind.

Somewhere in between the roaring forty's.

New Zealand (where I live) is in the roaring forties but the wind is
often less than 30 knots and some days there is no wind at all (even in
wellington near the cook strait).

I certainly wouldn't disagree with your statement. However, the likelihood
of increased velocity seems more consistent at your latitude than those
areas farther north to the equator. Excluding occasional occurrences.

Here's an interesting tidbit. Yachts have gone down into the roaring
forties where clipper ships made incredible passages. They expected to make
good time and many have nearly run out of food and water. It turns out that
there are lows that sweep through at many times of the year with calms in
between. The clipper ships would hitch onto a low and, with their great
speed, ride it for long distances. The small yacht, unable to press on in
heavy conditions and limited by its waterline, just gets beat up, then
bounces around in the left over sea not making much progress, gets beat up
again, becalmed again, etc.

--

Roger Long



"akcarlos" wrote in message
oups.com...
New Zealand (where I live) is in the roaring forties but the wind is
often less than 30 knots and some days there is no wind at all (even in
wellington near the cook strait).

On Thursday 30 December 2004 1:26 am in rec.boats.cruising Roger Long wrote:

Here's an interesting tidbit. Yachts have gone down into the roaring
forties where clipper ships made incredible passages. They expected to
make good time and many have nearly run out of food and water. It turns
out that there are lows that sweep through at many times of the year with
calms in between. The clipper ships would hitch onto a low and, with
their great speed, ride it for long distances. The small yacht, unable to
press on in heavy conditions and limited by its waterline, just gets beat
up, then bounces around in the left over sea not making much progress,
gets beat up again, becalmed again, etc.

Not if the yacht crew knows what they are doing.
http://www.teamellen.com/

--
My real address is crn (at) netunix (dot) com
WARNING all messages containing attachments or html will be silently
deleted. Send only plain text.

Those are fast boats, capable of maintaining speeds closer to the clippers
than the typical heavy ocean cruiser of 20 years ago. They can ride with
the lows in much the same way and maintain control in conditions that would
have a traditional boat towing drogues or under bare poles.

--

Roger Long



"Chris Newport" wrote in message
news:3357597.inLcVP7bAA@callisto...
On Thursday 30 December 2004 1:26 am in rec.boats.cruising Roger Long
wrote:

http://www.teamellen.com/

Roger Long wrote:
****. It really is a bad night. The airport just called to tell
me that the big twin on the next tie down jumped its chocks and
blew into our plane. I'm waiting for a damage report.

This sounds similar to a sailing situation. For example, one of the reasons
I vacated the boatyard and anchored off during H. Gloria (1985) was concern
that other boats in the yard could have given me problems. I took a lot of
"heat" from the Dock Committee for this choice, but then ...

--
Good luck and good sailing.
s/v Kerry Deare of Barnegat
http://kerrydeare.home.comcast.net/