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Safety equipment recommendations wanted.
Since we're all excited about the new boat right now, I'm thinking of buying
some safety gear for the wife and kids for Christmas. Knowing I'm thinking about keeping them attached the boat should make her feel warm and fuzzy. I've been looking at the safety harnesses that have a built in CO2 lifejacket. Pricey, but they look comfortable to wear and you don't have to worry about digging up a harness if things get hairy. I'd appreciate some experience / or comments on these. We're in Maine and most of our cruising will probably be to even colder regions. The Mustang coats look great but are probably too warm for summer. Growing kids (12 and 14) will go through them fast. Safety perception is a funny thing. My wife is petrified to have me take the kids up in my well maintained airplane in clear calm conditions but sees no danger in boating at all. Now that I'm coming back to sailing after learning to fly and think very proactively about safety and what can go wrong, I can see about 100 more ways to hurt or lose a kid on the water than in the air. When I started to learn how to fly, everyone who had ever sailed with me said that there was no way in hell that they would ever get in an airplane with me. I turned out to be a very cautious and conservative pilot; even became a contributor to "Aviation Safety" magazine. I think I'm going to be a very different kind of sailor when we get the boat launched. -- Roger Long |
Fine tune a 'man overboard' procedure and practice on a regular basis. Sit
back and let your wife be the capt conducting the drill. After all, if it's you in the water, you'll want her to come back & get you. |
yep...i agree w/Don...you also want to consider/practice
getting back on the boat, once you have fallen off. this is sometimes a problem on sailboats, combined w/a 150-200 lb man trying to get back on board.... i would think of safety equipment in three main sections: 1) throwables 2) signals 3) communication eq have a bit of each.....and mostly...a clear mind and the ability to be calm...when things start going to ^%$#.....sorta like flying, only slower....imho... richard colorado sel current private pilot & salior |
Roger Long wrote:
Since we're all excited about the new boat right now, I'm thinking of buying some safety gear for the wife and kids for Christmas. Knowing I'm thinking about keeping them attached the boat should make her feel warm and fuzzy. snip For Christmas give yourselves (both you and your wife) a trip to Philadelphia for a couple days to attend Strictly Sail. On Jan 20 there is a full day seminar "Safety at Sea". Use this as a platform for equipment selection and "warm fuzzies" on the subject. It is a great show, lots to enjoy about it for sailors... Skip |
One of the bits of odd info I picked up is that severely hypothermic victims
will often experience heart failure as they are turned vertical. There is a lot of stress in rescue boat design on getting people aboard in a horizontal position. If someone is barely conscious or unconscious, it may be worth slowing down, taking a deep breath, and figuring out how to get them aboard with the least stress possible. Yanking them up in a panic could be more of a hazard than another few minutes in the water. I see you're another sailor / pilot. It's going to be interesting to see how much of a dent the boat makes in my flying. http://baldeagleflyingclub.org You might enjoy these as well: http://home.maine.rr.com/rlma/Articles.htm Where do you sail in Colorado? -- Roger Long "~^ beancounter ~^" wrote in message oups.com... yep...i agree w/Don...you also want to consider/practice getting back on the boat, once you have fallen off. this is sometimes a problem on sailboats, combined w/a 150-200 lb man trying to get back on board.... i would think of safety equipment in three main sections: 1) throwables 2) signals 3) communication eq have a bit of each.....and mostly...a clear mind and the ability to be calm...when things start going to ^%$#.....sorta like flying, only slower....imho... richard colorado sel current private pilot & salior |
On Mon, 20 Dec 2004 16:16:11 GMT, "Roger Long"
wrote: I've been looking at the safety harnesses that have a built in CO2 lifejacket. Pricey, but they look comfortable to wear and you don't have to worry about digging up a harness if things get hairy. I'd appreciate some experience / or comments on these. I'm very happy with mine. It is comfortable enough to wear full time, now that I've removed the approval tags. For some insane reason they were made with a scratchy material and sewn on in an invisible location where they will chafe if the vest is worn over bare skin. I have added a kayaking knife with the sheath sewn to the webbing where it's easy to grab. Knowing I have it makes my family feel a little more warm and fuzzy when I'm singlehanding. Ryk |
On Mon, 20 Dec 2004 16:16:11 GMT, "Roger Long"
wrote: Safety perception is a funny thing. My wife is petrified to have me take the kids up in my well maintained airplane in clear calm conditions but sees no danger in boating at all. Now that I'm coming back to sailing after learning to fly and think very proactively about safety and what can go wrong, I can see about 100 more ways to hurt or lose a kid on the water than in the air. You are right. Aircraft are a lot more dangerous than boats by a wide margin, but neither is remotely as dangerous as a car. As for safety equipment, many good suggestions have already been made, but I would add that a floating, gasketed "crash box" you can grab is appropriate. As most of your sailing is going to be freshwater and/or coastal, I assume you are not going to have a liferaft. But you will likely have a tender, and it may be an inflatable. I keep my "crash box" lashed beneath the companionway steps; in the event of an emergency, a quick slash with my belt knife will free it. You have a belt knife, right? G In the box are a flashlight, a signal mirror, a roll of polypropolyne heaving line, a handheld waterproof GPS, a handheld waterproof VHF, a handheld bearing compass, some batteries, a signal mirror, a small first aid kit, some flares, glowsticks and gaffer tape. It assumes that I have to take to the tender by stepping up off the sinking boat, and that me and the crew is wearing PFDs and harnesses already. It also allows for a boat that is still floating, but perhaps dismasted or disabled electrically (via lightning strike or battery explosion) to navigate and./or report and take a position. Last thing (because I could natter on all night) would be hard points in the cockpit for snapping on harness lanyards, properly laid out and USED jacklines, properly rigged preventers (you will be going mostly downwind, and usually fast) and plenty of the usual engine spares so a busted belt doesn't ruin your day G R. |
rhys wrote:
On Mon, 20 Dec 2004 16:16:11 GMT, "Roger Long" wrote: Safety perception is a funny thing. My wife is petrified to have me take the kids up in my well maintained airplane in clear calm conditions but sees no danger in boating at all. Now that I'm coming back to sailing after learning to fly and think very proactively about safety and what can go wrong, I can see about 100 more ways to hurt or lose a kid on the water than in the air. You are right. Aircraft are a lot more dangerous than boats by a wide margin, but neither is remotely as dangerous as a car. As for safety equipment, many good suggestions have already been made, but I would add that a floating, gasketed "crash box" you can grab is appropriate. As most of your sailing is going to be freshwater and/or coastal, I assume you are not going to have a liferaft. But you will likely have a tender, and it may be an inflatable. I keep my "crash box" lashed beneath the companionway steps; in the event of an emergency, a quick slash with my belt knife will free it. You have a belt knife, right? G In the box are a flashlight, a signal mirror, a roll of polypropolyne heaving line, a handheld waterproof GPS, a handheld waterproof VHF, a handheld bearing compass, some batteries, a signal mirror, a small first aid kit, some flares, glowsticks and gaffer tape. It assumes that I have to take to the tender by stepping up off the sinking boat, and that me and the crew is wearing PFDs and harnesses already. It also allows for a boat that is still floating, but perhaps dismasted or disabled electrically (via lightning strike or battery explosion) to navigate and./or report and take a position. Last thing (because I could natter on all night) would be hard points in the cockpit for snapping on harness lanyards, properly laid out and USED jacklines, properly rigged preventers (you will be going mostly downwind, and usually fast) and plenty of the usual engine spares so a busted belt doesn't ruin your day G R. How often do you put fresh battries in your "crash box"? krj |
Hello R
As most of your sailing is going to be freshwater and/or coastal, I assume you are not going to have a liferaft. snip What is the rationale for this? Isn't it possible to drown in fresh water? jofra |
On Mon, 20 Dec 2004 16:16:11 GMT, "Roger Long"
wrote: Since we're all excited about the new boat right now, I'm thinking of buying some safety gear for the wife and kids for Christmas. Knowing I'm thinking about keeping them attached the boat should make her feel warm and fuzzy. I've been looking at the safety harnesses that have a built in CO2 lifejacket. Pricey, but they look comfortable to wear and you don't have to worry about digging up a harness if things get hairy. I'd appreciate some experience / or comments on these. We have been using those for several years. They are light enough to wear comfortably on all but the hottest days on the Hudson. On the Maine coast you could make them mandatory without mutiny I am quite sure. You should test them periodically(which costs a new cartridge). We had one that we hadn't tested for about 6 years that proved to have a leak at wone of the corners that jut when the bladder is folded. The only thing I can think of is the tip of the corner chafed against the cover when the device was worn by an active sailor. We're in Maine and most of our cruising will probably be to even colder regions. The Mustang coats look great but are probably too warm for summer. Growing kids (12 and 14) will go through them fast. Safety perception is a funny thing. My wife is petrified to have me take the kids up in my well maintained airplane in clear calm conditions but sees no danger in boating at all. Now that I'm coming back to sailing after learning to fly and think very proactively about safety and what can go wrong, I can see about 100 more ways to hurt or lose a kid on the water than in the air. When I started to learn how to fly, everyone who had ever sailed with me said that there was no way in hell that they would ever get in an airplane with me. I turned out to be a very cautious and conservative pilot; even became a contributor to "Aviation Safety" magazine. I think I'm going to be a very different kind of sailor when we get the boat launched. Rodney Myrvaagnes NYC Let's Put the XXX back in Xmas |
On Mon, 20 Dec 2004 17:09:39 GMT, "Don White"
wrote: Fine tune a 'man overboard' procedure and practice on a regular basis. Sit back and let your wife be the capt conducting the drill. After all, if it's you in the water, you'll want her to come back & get you. That is another thing. Especially for couples. A life sling ready to deploy. And yes, my wife had to use it and I was in the water. Rodney Myrvaagnes NYC Let's Put the XXX back in Xmas |
http://www.landfallnav.com/abandoncheck.html
That's a good list for offshore navigation... you may not need that much stuff, but it's a good checklist. -- Keith __ The hardness of the butter is inversely proportional to the softness of the bread. "Roger Long" wrote in message ... Since we're all excited about the new boat right now, I'm thinking of buying some safety gear for the wife and kids for Christmas. Knowing I'm thinking about keeping them attached the boat should make her feel warm and fuzzy. I've been looking at the safety harnesses that have a built in CO2 lifejacket. Pricey, but they look comfortable to wear and you don't have to worry about digging up a harness if things get hairy. I'd appreciate some experience / or comments on these. We're in Maine and most of our cruising will probably be to even colder regions. The Mustang coats look great but are probably too warm for summer. Growing kids (12 and 14) will go through them fast. Safety perception is a funny thing. My wife is petrified to have me take the kids up in my well maintained airplane in clear calm conditions but sees no danger in boating at all. Now that I'm coming back to sailing after learning to fly and think very proactively about safety and what can go wrong, I can see about 100 more ways to hurt or lose a kid on the water than in the air. When I started to learn how to fly, everyone who had ever sailed with me said that there was no way in hell that they would ever get in an airplane with me. I turned out to be a very cautious and conservative pilot; even became a contributor to "Aviation Safety" magazine. I think I'm going to be a very different kind of sailor when we get the boat launched. -- Roger Long |
we do a lot of lake sailing and i travel out
to ca a lot...sailing in the bay area and san diego... "Where do you sail in Colorado?" |
"Roger Long" wrote:
I've been looking at the safety harnesses that have a built in CO2 lifejacket. Pricey, but they look comfortable to wear and you don't have to worry about digging up a harness if things get hairy. I'd appreciate some experience / or comments on these. We always wear these when underway. We have the auto-inflate ones. We didn't actually really believe that they would inflate, so one warm day on the Chesapeake, we jumped overboard (the boat was anchored) to see. Boy do these inflate fast. We periodically have them go off without being submerged. The first time, Bob accused me of pulling the manual inflate tab. So we always keep a couple of refill kits, and a couple extra life jackets on board. We also keep enough for various ages of grandkids. Bob was concerned that I would not be able to pull him aboard because even though I'm heavier than he is, I'm also weaker. He's worked out a way to use the jib winches so that either of us can pull up the other one. We also keep the swim ladder deployed most of the time, even when at the dock, as I was folding the sail getting ready to haul the boat for the winter, and backed right off the end of the dock into the 50 degree water. The dock ladders had only one rung, and since it was a lowish tide, it was way over my head. I do not know how to deal with cold water, so I won't address that, but an occupational health physician told me the 50 50 50 rule - 50 percent of people survive 50 minutes in 50 degree (F) water. I refused to go offshore without an SSB. We have several VHF radios - some installed, and some portable. I've come to the conclusion that for sailors, the only really important news is the weather, and I like to have as many different viewpoints on that as possible. If I was going to be going offshore at all, I'd want to have one of us get our ham license. We have a dinghy on davits - I've not felt the need for a liferaft for coastal cruising, which is what we do. If something happens to the boat in the Chesapeake or the ICW, we can likely get into the dinghy in time to save ourselves, or even in most cases swim to shore. YMMV Bob has various tools and spares on board, and I've heard that crash mats and plugs for big and small leaks are a good idea. We're in Maine and most of our cruising will probably be to even colder regions. The Mustang coats look great but are probably too warm for summer. Growing kids (12 and 14) will go through them fast. Safety perception is a funny thing. My wife is petrified to have me take the kids up in my well maintained airplane in clear calm conditions but sees no danger in boating at all. Now that I'm coming back to sailing after learning to fly and think very proactively about safety and what can go wrong, I can see about 100 more ways to hurt or lose a kid on the water than in the air. When I started to learn how to fly, everyone who had ever sailed with me said that there was no way in hell that they would ever get in an airplane with me. I turned out to be a very cautious and conservative pilot; even became a contributor to "Aviation Safety" magazine. I think I'm going to be a very different kind of sailor when we get the boat launched. grandma Rosalie |
On Mon, 20 Dec 2004 16:16:11 GMT, "Roger Long"
wrote: Since we're all excited about the new boat right now, I'm thinking of buying some safety gear for the wife and kids for Christmas. Knowing I'm thinking about keeping them attached the boat should make her feel warm and fuzzy. I would run jacklines and put U bolts in the cockpit, at the mast and the bow. Attach tethers to the bolts and jacklines, and leave them there while sailing. Have some within reach of the companionway. If you want the kids to tethered, the adults should be as well. Many sailors have their own tethers which they keep attached to their harness, I would rather have the tethers attached to the boat and use that one that I need. Put nettting on your lifelines. I've been looking at the safety harnesses that have a built in CO2 lifejacket. Pricey, but they look comfortable to wear and you don't have to worry about digging up a harness if things get hairy. I'd appreciate some experience / or comments on these. I wear one all the time. Consider adding a strobe light if you are out at night. I found a nifty case that was designed to hold a Maglite and Leatherman. It hangs off the belt of the harness. We're in Maine and most of our cruising will probably be to even colder regions. The Mustang coats look great but are probably too warm for summer. Growing kids (12 and 14) will go through them fast. I have a Mustand jacket I seldom wear. The seams are not water proof. For cold weather, I suggest - polypropylene underwear - fleece - good foul weather gear (breathable and waterproof) - sea boots (with at least two sets of felt inserts) - gloves ( I am still searching for something that can get wet and stay warm.) - watch cap (As a Canadian, I should call it a toque) - avoid cotton and wool. I wear fast drying hiking pants. They fit into my sea boots easily, and they are comfortable under foul weather gear. They also take no space in my bag. Safety perception is a funny thing. My wife is petrified to have me take the kids up in my well maintained airplane in clear calm conditions but sees no danger in boating at all. Now that I'm coming back to sailing after learning to fly and think very proactively about safety and what can go wrong, I can see about 100 more ways to hurt or lose a kid on the water than in the air. Everyone should learn and practise: - upwind MOB - downwind MOB - Anderson turns - Williamson turns Both day and night. The galley can be dangerous. Make sure everyone understands how to use the stove properly. You have to be somewhat anal about gear stowage. Teach everyone the knots. Make sure everyone knows where the safety gear is and how to use it. You might consider hiring an instructor to come out for a couple days to reinforce what you are saying about safety. I am currently reviewing manuals and exams for one the organizations for which I certify. I could go on but ...... Jack __________________________________________________ Jack Dale Swiftsure Sailing Academy Director/ISPA and CYA Instructor http://www.swiftsuresailing.com __________________________________________________ |
On Mon, 20 Dec 2004 22:06:27 -0500, krj
wrote: How often do you put fresh battries in your "crash box"? krj Once a year. I transfer the unused AA batteries from the box and they get eaten quickly by the GPS and the mini-flashlight I have hanging in the companionway. Or they go into the Grundig YachtBoy and die an honourable death giving me the BBC World Service while I'm having late night beverages in the cockpit. The Cs go into my ship's clock and my kid's toys, and the big Ds go into a boombox. I buy cheap alkalines at a surplus place and make sure they have 1.6 volts DC before I put them in the crash box. If I use the Zodiac a lot, I will run through the Ds as I have battery powered nav lights in addition to this year's installation of a Harley AGM 12 volt battery to give me switchable running lights. Sometimes I like to putt-putt in Lake Ontario under the stars and the Zodiac is better for this than the sailboat. The running lights aren't legally required at 9,9 hp outboard size, but there's a lot of "party boat" traffic near my club and it was an easy modification. R. |
Roger,
Well - you know th line about old-bold pilots Same - Same About auto-inflate harnes lifejackets. Get them for the family. Go someplace that has a real good collection of a least Sospenders and Mustang. You may have to go to more than one place. Try one everything you can find - have the family do the same - DO NOT look at price tags. When you find what you like buy it. If it is not comforatable, you may not want to wear it at some time. Also get the re-arm kit to keep in something really watertight. Get the cartridges weighed anually and before fit-out blow them up with the little tube and let them sit for a day. I have had two cartridges lose weight with no sign of distress. My first one is now 17 seasons old but has recently been reassigned to light duty because of visible "seabag" wear. Both my wife and I have used ours (as distinct from wearing). OK - the first thought when you hear it go off is "damn - there goes 20~30$" We currently keep a full complement on board. They are always on over foulweather gear and any time we are short handed or things are less than wonderful (yes - most of the time.) Wear them in health. Matt Colie A.Sloop "Bonne Ide'e" Lifelong Waterman, Licensed Mariner and Congenital Sailor Roger Long wrote: Since we're all excited about the new boat right now, I'm thinking of buying some safety gear for the wife and kids for Christmas. Knowing I'm thinking about keeping them attached the boat should make her feel warm and fuzzy. I've been looking at the safety harnesses that have a built in CO2 lifejacket. Pricey, but they look comfortable to wear and you don't have to worry about digging up a harness if things get hairy. I'd appreciate some experience / or comments on these. We're in Maine and most of our cruising will probably be to even colder regions. The Mustang coats look great but are probably too warm for summer. Growing kids (12 and 14) will go through them fast. Safety perception is a funny thing. My wife is petrified to have me take the kids up in my well maintained airplane in clear calm conditions but sees no danger in boating at all. Now that I'm coming back to sailing after learning to fly and think very proactively about safety and what can go wrong, I can see about 100 more ways to hurt or lose a kid on the water than in the air. When I started to learn how to fly, everyone who had ever sailed with me said that there was no way in hell that they would ever get in an airplane with me. I turned out to be a very cautious and conservative pilot; even became a contributor to "Aviation Safety" magazine. I think I'm going to be a very different kind of sailor when we get the boat launched. |
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