night sailing practice
 

AS my cruise is coming up, I decided to go out night sailing to see
how everything worked in the dark. Havent been night sailing in
several years. Had very little wind, sailed about 12 miles due south
till I was near "O" tower (an AIR Force navigational structure for
drones out in the Gulf) and then back in. Everything went well even
with no moon and nearly total dark till I got back near shore and got
disoriented suddenly. Didnt trust the lights I was seeing so checked
the GPS which confirmed my position. I still do almost all of my
navigation by coastal piloting methods and dead reckoning so the GPS
just confirmed I was right. Still, the sudden disorientation was
freaky. Carabelle does not show up very well from the water and the
plethora of cell towers and radio towers makes finding the correct
flashing red difficult. I was surprised there were NO other boats out
on a Saturday night except a lone shrimper who disappeared to the
south. All in all, a good experience confirming my boat seems ready.

On 7 Nov 2004 17:46:11 -0800, (Parallax) wrote:
AS my cruise is coming up, I decided to go out night sailing to see
how everything worked in the dark. Havent been night sailing in
several years. Had very little wind, sailed about 12 miles due south
till I was near "O" tower (an AIR Force navigational structure for
drones out in the Gulf) and then back in. Everything went well even
with no moon and nearly total dark till I got back near shore and got
disoriented suddenly. Didnt trust the lights I was seeing so checked
the GPS which confirmed my position. I still do almost all of my
navigation by coastal piloting methods and dead reckoning so the GPS
just confirmed I was right. Still, the sudden disorientation was
freaky. Carabelle does not show up very well from the water and the
plethora of cell towers and radio towers makes finding the correct
flashing red difficult. I was surprised there were NO other boats out
on a Saturday night except a lone shrimper who disappeared to the
south. All in all, a good experience confirming my boat seems ready.

================================================== ==

I've found that losing nav aid lights against the shore clutter is a
common problem. My personal solution is to have key way points set
into the GPS in advance so they are easy to call up when needed. It's
nice to know and use traditional piloting methods but the electronic
aids are a lot quicker and easier when the chips are down. It is
just as important these days to be familiar with your GPS, waypoints
and routes, as it is with traditional coastal piloting. And at
today's prices, no one should be without a spare or two.

Getting disoriented from lights can happen even to those of us who do a
lot of night "sailing".
Sometimes it's from a clear night where you can see lights you normally
don't see, or just a slightly new angle of approach to a familiar landfall.
Good reason to use more than one method of navigation, whenever possible.

otn

otnmbrd wrote:

Getting disoriented from lights can happen even to those of us who do a
lot of night "sailing".
Sometimes it's from a clear night where you can see lights you normally
don't see, or just a slightly new angle of approach to a familiar landfall.
Good reason to use more than one method of navigation, whenever possible.

Last winter we went offshore more than usual, so I usually found
myself standing the watch in the wee hours in the morning as Bob can't
sleep early in the night and I can.

We were going south off Georgia and I was keeping a lookout for ships
on the horizon. I dodged some freighters, saw some more dolphins and
saw a meteor. We were hearing radio traffic from Charleston, and
Savannah both. That gives me some warning when the big ships say they
are going out the channel.

The stars are very bright except on the west near shore where I can
see the glow in the sky from the various cities we pass - first
Charleston and then I guess Beaufort (dimmer) and then Savannah.

There are big rollers coming from the east, but the surface of the
water is pretty smooth There's also some kind of strobe thing east of
us.

Later on, after we got past Savannah I kept seeing these lights to
the east of us, and they seemed to be on a collision course or at
least they were stationary in relation to our boat and I didn't think
there were any ATON out there.. They were white.

Eventually, when some of the lights got higher above the horizon, I
figured out that it was the stars rising.

Then the following spring, we were going north from Charleston to the
Cape Fear River and I saw a bright light in the western sky. A ship?
Where would a ship be coming from? It's all marshland over there.

No - it's too big and too high up for a ship - plus I can't see any
red or green lights.

A lighthouse? Can't find any lighthouses on the charts over on that
shore, and again it's too high up.

There's no moon tonight, and I know stars don't rise in the west, so
it can't be a star this time and it's too bright.

A plane taking off? But it doesn't seem to get higher. Eventually the
light goes away, so I guessed it was a plane that landed. After a bit
I saw another one.

There is not much traffic on the radio except the CG - I hear from
stations all the way from Mayport to Cape Hatteras. Did hear an Army
ship saying that it has hazardous cargo.

Later in the night, I heard the CG asking people if they'd seen
flares. Then the light dawned.

Those lights I saw were FLARES!!!


grandma Rosalie

Later on, after we got past Savannah I kept seeing these lights to
the east of us, and they seemed to be on a collision course or at
least they were stationary in relation to our boat and I didn't think
there were any ATON out there.. They were white.

Eventually, when some of the lights got higher above the horizon, I
figured out that it was the stars rising.

I am glad to hear that I am not the only one that has had that happen. For
me I saw a white light astern coming over the horizon. No problem. A little
bit later I saw a lower white light that appeared to be a ship coming
straight at us. I change course about 30 degrees and kept watching it as it
go brighter. The lights were still coming straight on so I changed course 60
degrees in the opposite direction. I got thinking about this situation and
was about to wake the off watch, but I wanted to make one more check and
there was the moon coming up. I had been looking at a star straight up over
the tip of the moon. It took me a while before I ever admitted that I was
being run down by the moon. Funny story now, but not on the late watch after
ten days of looking at nothing but an occasional ship and lots of ocean.

Leanne

You might consider laying off shore till morning or trying to time your
arrival for daylight. I won't go in at night unless I've been there during
the day and am familiar with the harbor.




"Parallax" wrote in message
om...
AS my cruise is coming up, I decided to go out night sailing to see
how everything worked in the dark. Havent been night sailing in
several years. Had very little wind, sailed about 12 miles due south
till I was near "O" tower (an AIR Force navigational structure for
drones out in the Gulf) and then back in. Everything went well even
with no moon and nearly total dark till I got back near shore and got
disoriented suddenly. Didnt trust the lights I was seeing so checked
the GPS which confirmed my position. I still do almost all of my
navigation by coastal piloting methods and dead reckoning so the GPS
just confirmed I was right. Still, the sudden disorientation was
freaky. Carabelle does not show up very well from the water and the
plethora of cell towers and radio towers makes finding the correct
flashing red difficult. I was surprised there were NO other boats out
on a Saturday night except a lone shrimper who disappeared to the
south. All in all, a good experience confirming my boat seems ready.

On Mon, 8 Nov 2004 09:57:17 -0500, "Bryan" wrote:
You might consider laying off shore till morning or trying to time your
arrival for daylight. I won't go in at night unless I've been there during
the day and am familiar with the harbor.

=====================================

That's good advice for a tricky entrance or a poorly equipped boat.
With good electronic charting and/or radar it's usually not that
difficult however. One of the problems in many inlets however is that
the buoys are not charted because of constant change to the channel.
That's definitely a reason to wait for daylight in my opinion.

One moonless night I was sailing up the bay , looking for the red
light to make the turn towards Fairlee Creek. I spotted it, headed
towards it but when I looked again it was a green light. Went below,
checked the charts. Back up top , found the red light again. Next
thing I know it turned YELLOW. Finally realized it was a traffic
light on shore, a few miles before my buoy.


--
Scott Vernon
Plowville Pa _/)__/)_/)_


"Rosalie B." wrote in message
...
otnmbrd wrote:

Getting disoriented from lights can happen even to those of us who
do a
lot of night "sailing".
Sometimes it's from a clear night where you can see lights you
normally
don't see, or just a slightly new angle of approach to a familiar
landfall.
Good reason to use more than one method of navigation, whenever
possible.

Last winter we went offshore more than usual, so I usually found
myself standing the watch in the wee hours in the morning as Bob
can't
sleep early in the night and I can.

We were going south off Georgia and I was keeping a lookout for
ships
on the horizon. I dodged some freighters, saw some more dolphins
and
saw a meteor. We were hearing radio traffic from Charleston, and
Savannah both. That gives me some warning when the big ships say
they
are going out the channel.

The stars are very bright except on the west near shore where I can
see the glow in the sky from the various cities we pass - first
Charleston and then I guess Beaufort (dimmer) and then Savannah.

There are big rollers coming from the east, but the surface of the
water is pretty smooth There's also some kind of strobe thing east
of
us.

Later on, after we got past Savannah I kept seeing these lights to
the east of us, and they seemed to be on a collision course or at
least they were stationary in relation to our boat and I didn't
think
there were any ATON out there.. They were white.

Eventually, when some of the lights got higher above the horizon, I
figured out that it was the stars rising.

Then the following spring, we were going north from Charleston to
the
Cape Fear River and I saw a bright light in the western sky. A ship?
Where would a ship be coming from? It's all marshland over there.

No - it's too big and too high up for a ship - plus I can't see any
red or green lights.

A lighthouse? Can't find any lighthouses on the charts over on that
shore, and again it's too high up.

There's no moon tonight, and I know stars don't rise in the west, so
it can't be a star this time and it's too bright.

A plane taking off? But it doesn't seem to get higher. Eventually
the
light goes away, so I guessed it was a plane that landed. After a
bit
I saw another one.

There is not much traffic on the radio except the CG - I hear from
stations all the way from Mayport to Cape Hatteras. Did hear an Army
ship saying that it has hazardous cargo.

Later in the night, I heard the CG asking people if they'd seen
flares. Then the light dawned.

Those lights I saw were FLARES!!!


grandma Rosalie

In article , says...
I am glad to hear that I am not the only one that has had that happen. For
me I saw a white light astern coming over the horizon. No problem. A little
bit later I saw a lower white lig


Ok, now you've done it. War story time from an old bosun's mate..

I forget which particular ocean it was in, Med, Caribbean, North
Atlantic, South Atlantic, Aegean, take your pick.

In any case, I was standing watch on the right wing of the bridge one
night when the left wing lookout reported a, well, for want of a better
description, UFO off the port bow. The OD checked with CIC and they had
nothing on radar, he asked me if I saw it, which I didn't. He went out
on the wing, nothing, checked with CIC again, still nothing. I think he
was a little worried because we had been playing chicken with a couple
of Russian "trawlers" for most of the day.

I did see something out over the port bow but held my piece and let the
dance go on for about fifteen minutes before I let the OD off the hook
by telling him I strongly suspected the UFO reported was the full moon
that had come up over the horizon. It was.


--
MikeG
Heirloom Woods
www.heirloom-woods.net

Wayne.B wrote in message . ..
On Mon, 8 Nov 2004 09:57:17 -0500, "Bryan" wrote:
You might consider laying off shore till morning or trying to time your
arrival for daylight. I won't go in at night unless I've been there during
the day and am familiar with the harbor.

=====================================

That's good advice for a tricky entrance or a poorly equipped boat.
With good electronic charting and/or radar it's usually not that
difficult however. One of the problems in many inlets however is that
the buoys are not charted because of constant change to the channel.
That's definitely a reason to wait for daylight in my opinion.

The biggest problem I saw on this little night sailing excercise
was the unlighted buoys. Two of them, I only saw when I was abeam of
them and two I never did see. Running into these markers is the
biggest hazard on a night like that. The reflective coating must be
faded from the sun so they just do not show up until fairly close.
Furhtermore, there is some discrepancy between what the charts say and
some markers. There is also a recent uncharted shrimpboat wreck at
the west end of the island that is partway into the channel thazt I
was never able to spotlight on the way in.
The excercise was good in exposing a couple of small problems and
bringing back some old skills. For example, I did not have a small
flashlight for taking a quick peak at the chart so I was blinded for
about 30 secs after every time I looked at it. In the day, I
obsessively rely on my handbearing compass to take bearings which
enables me to go on a course till a bearing is presented to something
which will clear all obstacles. My hand compass is not lighted and it
would have blinded me to take such a bearing so I used the GPS. I
completely forgot about simply pointing the boat at the object in
question and using the dimly lighted boat compass.

On 10 Nov 2004 11:55:08 -0800, (Parallax)
wrote:
My hand compass is not lighted and it
would have blinded me to take such a bearing so I used the GPS. I
completely forgot about simply pointing the boat at the object in
question and using the dimly lighted boat compass.

You know, it strikes me that you could very easily wire an AAA battery
to a pair of glasses frames, attached to a single red LED of the
appropriate voltage. This would make a great "night light" for pelorus
bearings and brief looks at charts.

Would look dorky, of course, but I am looking for a functional
five-dollar solution here, not the next $59 special at West Marine:
"NightSailor Vision Goggles!"

R.

Comments interspersed:

Parallax wrote:


The biggest problem I saw on this little night sailing excercise
was the unlighted buoys. Two of them, I only saw when I was abeam of
them and two I never did see. Running into these markers is the
biggest hazard on a night like that.

Always has and probably always will be a problem. Two thoughts: Have a
narrow beam flashlight handy (one which doesn't throw a large diffused
light) to pick these out. Normally, this type light won't totally
destroy your night vision .... normally.
When coming up on this type buoy, check your charts for other, more
visible landmarks, which you might be able to use for back-up
positioning .... course, there's always electronic methods potentially
available, but if you are cruising and piloting, the visual back-ups may
give you a more secure feeling.

The reflective coating must be
faded from the sun so they just do not show up until fairly close.
Furhtermore, there is some discrepancy between what the charts say and
some markers.

Again, an ongoing problem ..... always consider the chart info to be
where the marker "should" be, not where it "is".... give yourself a
built-in amount of safety room, around any marker and whenever possible,
"danger bearings" when approaching any you might think suspect, though
all would be better.

There is also a recent uncharted shrimpboat wreck at
the west end of the island that is partway into the channel thazt I
was never able to spotlight on the way in.

Local Notice to Mariners on the net, is all I can suggest here for
possible latest info on these items. Note: I've had numerous queries on
a wreck in my area. My surprise at the queries.... the wreck is a small
fishing boat in 300' of water that is marked as a "wreck", not a
"dangerous wreck" .... point being, some necessary info may not always
get out or be understood, in the LNM.

The excercise was good in exposing a couple of small problems and
bringing back some old skills. For example, I did not have a small
flashlight for taking a quick peak at the chart so I was blinded for
about 30 secs after every time I looked at it. In the day, I
obsessively rely on my handbearing compass to take bearings which
enables me to go on a course till a bearing is presented to something
which will clear all obstacles. My hand compass is not lighted and it
would have blinded me to take such a bearing so I used the GPS. I
completely forgot about simply pointing the boat at the object in
question and using the dimly lighted boat compass.

I had a portable azimuth circle which mounted on the cabin hatch for
taking relative bearings ( could easily be mounted over a binnacle) when
there were two people available. I would use this, compared to a "mark"
heading on the steering compass (which I knew the error to -deviation
tables). This type of rig would need to be boat and/or operator
specific, but coupled with the ole red flashlight, I found it the least
cumbersome .... to each his/her own.

otn

You might consider laying off shore till morning or trying to time your
arrival for daylight

prudent advice, to be ignored only by those who believe God will save them from
abject stupidity.

speaking of which:

With good electronic charting and/or radar it's usually not that
difficult however.

In article ,
says...
On 10 Nov 2004 11:55:08 -0800, (Parallax)
wrote:
My hand compass is not lighted and it
would have blinded me to take such a bearing so I used the GPS. I
completely forgot about simply pointing the boat at the object in
question and using the dimly lighted boat compass.

You know, it strikes me that you could very easily wire an AAA battery
to a pair of glasses frames, attached to a single red LED of the
appropriate voltage. This would make a great "night light" for pelorus
bearings and brief looks at charts.

Would look dorky, of course, but I am looking for a functional
five-dollar solution here, not the next $59 special at West Marine:
"NightSailor Vision Goggles!"

R.

I've been using a red Photon MicroLight on a lanyard around my neck for
that. They are only ~$20 and if you wear glasses or a hat they have a
clip that can be attached.

www.photonlight.com

I just checked with the manufacturer and the 3 and Freedom are both
fairly water resistant.

--
**********************************************
Scott H. Sexton help@
www.sexton.com sexton.com
Eeyore's Birthday Party eeyore.sexton.com
**********************************************

otnmbrd wrote:

Comments interspersed:

Parallax wrote:

The biggest problem I saw on this little night sailing excercise
was the unlighted buoys. Two of them, I only saw when I was abeam of
them and two I never did see. Running into these markers is the
biggest hazard on a night like that.

Always has and probably always will be a problem. Two thoughts: Have a
narrow beam flashlight handy (one which doesn't throw a large diffused
light) to pick these out. Normally, this type light won't totally
destroy your night vision .... normally.
When coming up on this type buoy, check your charts for other, more
visible landmarks, which you might be able to use for back-up
positioning .... course, there's always electronic methods potentially
available, but if you are cruising and piloting, the visual back-ups may
give you a more secure feeling.

What we do might not work for you, but usually I'm at the wheel and
watching the computer chart and Bob is up with the big spotlight
looking for markers. At least that's they way we come in to Miami at
night.

We do it that way because while Miami is really well lit up at night,
one of the first times we came in (from the Bahamas), Bob was out on
deck getting stuff ready to pick up a mooring and taking care of the
sails etc, and I ran on the wrong side of some floaters south of Dodge
Island just where the ICW comes by. Fortunately it was high tide and
the depth sounder didn't even go off.

Then Bob told me that I should just head for the Rickenbacker Causeway
(our mooring was down there just on the port side of it) because there
were no more markers, and that was not true (and he denies absolutely
that he said any such thing). Suddenly I saw a square green
reflection right in front of my port running light - oops. did
manage to swerve in time to miss the daymark, but not by much.

Since then, he's always been out on deck with the light so I will be
sure to see stuff like that.g

The reflective coating must be
faded from the sun so they just do not show up until fairly close.
Furhtermore, there is some discrepancy between what the charts say and
some markers.

Again, an ongoing problem ..... always consider the chart info to be
where the marker "should" be, not where it "is".... give yourself a
built-in amount of safety room, around any marker and whenever possible,
"danger bearings" when approaching any you might think suspect, though
all would be better.

There is also a recent uncharted shrimpboat wreck at
the west end of the island that is partway into the channel thazt I
was never able to spotlight on the way in.

Local Notice to Mariners on the net, is all I can suggest here for
possible latest info on these items. Note: I've had numerous queries on
a wreck in my area. My surprise at the queries.... the wreck is a small
fishing boat in 300' of water that is marked as a "wreck", not a
"dangerous wreck" .... point being, some necessary info may not always
get out or be understood, in the LNM.

The excercise was good in exposing a couple of small problems and
bringing back some old skills. For example, I did not have a small
flashlight for taking a quick peak at the chart so I was blinded for
about 30 secs after every time I looked at it. In the day, I

We have a light in our compass and the GPS lighted (on low), and the
computer chart can be put on "night" which makes everything red. I
actually like it better just dimmed down because when everything is
red all the colors disappear. We also have the engine panel lighted
(not very bright).

obsessively rely on my handbearing compass to take bearings which
enables me to go on a course till a bearing is presented to something
which will clear all obstacles. My hand compass is not lighted and it
would have blinded me to take such a bearing so I used the GPS. I
completely forgot about simply pointing the boat at the object in
question and using the dimly lighted boat compass.

I had a portable azimuth circle which mounted on the cabin hatch for
taking relative bearings ( could easily be mounted over a binnacle) when
there were two people available. I would use this, compared to a "mark"
heading on the steering compass (which I knew the error to -deviation
tables). This type of rig would need to be boat and/or operator
specific, but coupled with the ole red flashlight, I found it the least
cumbersome .... to each his/her own.

We do go into some inlets after dark and don't go into others. Miami
is pretty well lit and well marked. Lucaya is not and has some
uncharted and unlit buoys. So even though we have a previous track on
the computer, I would not go in at night.


grandma Rosalie

JAXAshby wrote:
You might consider laying off shore till morning or trying to time your
arrival for daylight


prudent advice, to be ignored only by those who believe God will save them from
abject stupidity.

speaking of which:


With good electronic charting and/or radar it's usually not that
difficult however.



Typically, Doodles, your lack of experience is showing.

otn

lack of experience? I laid off a wide harbor for most of the night on an
island 1500 miles from here last Friday.

how about you, over-the-knee? what were you doing? sailing a rubber ducky?

From: otnmbrd
Date: 11/10/2004 9:17 PM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id: .net



JAXAshby wrote:
You might consider laying off shore till morning or trying to time your
arrival for daylight


prudent advice, to be ignored only by those who believe God will save them
from
abject stupidity.

speaking of which:


With good electronic charting and/or radar it's usually not that
difficult however.



Typically, Doodles, your lack of experience is showing.

otn

Always good advice. If you are not familiar with a particular landfall,
never be afraid to hold off or at least do a few "round turns" until you
can feel comfortable with your position and route of approach .... even
with those you are normally familiar with.
Even with GPS, radar, your visual/ mental sense of what is around you
and where you are, is extremely important to your "comfort factor" when
navigating in any restricted or close quarters.

otn

Rosalie B. wrote:
snip

We do go into some inlets after dark and don't go into others. Miami
is pretty well lit and well marked. Lucaya is not and has some
uncharted and unlit buoys. So even though we have a previous track on
the computer, I would not go in at night.


grandma Rosalie

over-the-knee, you make a loser flip-flop politician look good by comparison.
so, which it is, o-t-k? making harbor at night is good or bad? keep in the
mind the original poster was asking about making an unknown harbor, but expand
the definition to include any harbor you wish, including your bathtub.

From: otnmbrd
Date: 11/10/2004 9:30 PM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id: k.net

Always good advice. If you are not familiar with a particular landfall,
never be afraid to hold off or at least do a few "round turns" until you
can feel comfortable with your position and route of approach .... even
with those you are normally familiar with.
Even with GPS, radar, your visual/ mental sense of what is around you
and where you are, is extremely important to your "comfort factor" when
navigating in any restricted or close quarters.

otn

Rosalie B. wrote:
snip

We do go into some inlets after dark and don't go into others. Miami
is pretty well lit and well marked. Lucaya is not and has some
uncharted and unlit buoys. So even though we have a previous track on
the computer, I would not go in at night.


grandma Rosalie

JAXAshby wrote:
lack of experience? I laid off a wide harbor for most of the night on an
island 1500 miles from here last Friday.

Why? Are you telling us you couldn't find your way safely into Bermuda
at night? (you don't mention the weather conditions and I know that YOU
were NOT the person making the decision to lay off)

how about you, over-the-knee? what were you doing? sailing a rubber ducky?

Last Friday....hmmmmm nope, I was sailing a 650' car carrier out a 290'
wide channel, from a standing start, in 30k of wind which was on my stbd
beam, at night .... ever try that?
Doodles, you are at the low end of "seasonal weekend warrior" BR
(bedroom utility) .... I stand by my statement.

otn

JAXAshby wrote:
over-the-knee, you make a loser flip-flop politician look good by comparison.
so, which it is, o-t-k? making harbor at night is good or bad? keep in the
mind the original poster was asking about making an unknown harbor, but expand
the definition to include any harbor you wish, including your bathtub.

Once again, Doodles, your inexperience is showing. Whether it's a known
harbor or an unknown harbor, making the approach can be touchy,
especially at night, and especially if you feel uncomfortable with what
you are seeing.
There's nothing flipflop about my statement, just some good sound
advice, in addition to what Rosalie stated.
The fact that you don't understand either, just adds to our collective
sense of your inexperience.

otn



From: otnmbrd
Date: 11/10/2004 9:30 PM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id: k.net

Always good advice. If you are not familiar with a particular landfall,
never be afraid to hold off or at least do a few "round turns" until you
can feel comfortable with your position and route of approach .... even
with those you are normally familiar with.
Even with GPS, radar, your visual/ mental sense of what is around you
and where you are, is extremely important to your "comfort factor" when
navigating in any restricted or close quarters.

otn

rhys wrote in message . ..
On 10 Nov 2004 11:55:08 -0800, (Parallax)
wrote:
My hand compass is not lighted and it
would have blinded me to take such a bearing so I used the GPS. I
completely forgot about simply pointing the boat at the object in
question and using the dimly lighted boat compass.

You know, it strikes me that you could very easily wire an AAA battery
to a pair of glasses frames, attached to a single red LED of the
appropriate voltage. This would make a great "night light" for pelorus
bearings and brief looks at charts.

Would look dorky, of course, but I am looking for a functional
five-dollar solution here, not the next $59 special at West Marine:
"NightSailor Vision Goggles!"

R.

Lol, Dorky minds all think alike. Such a thing actually exists and is
sold at Wal Mart for about $9.00. I thought of this and remembered
that when I was looking for suitable low cost lights for caving I had
seen it. Having always been sort of a dorkish geek, the looks won't
bother me.

I knew I remembered some problem with the old red-light advice, and found
this reference: www.aoa.org/clincare/aviation-night.asp The problems wasn't
what I thought it was, but the site contains a large amount of fascinating
information about night vision.

One of the problems it mentions regarding red light is that you might not be
able to see red things on your chart. Are any important things on charts
colored red? Red light is also harder to focus on in dim conditions, esp. as
we grow middle-aged and our "arms shorten."

====

Charles T. Low
www.boatdocking.com

====

"Dave" wrote in message
...
On 10 Nov 2004 11:55:08 -0800, (Parallax) said:

For example, I did not have a small
flashlight for taking a quick peak at the chart so I was blinded for
about 30 secs after every time I looked at it

The trick there is to use, not necessarily a small light, but a red light.
When I was doing night sailing I used to have a red plastic disk I could
insert above the flashlight lens.

Dave

They have 'head lights' , strap on or hat style. I've seen them with
red lenses. Sporting goods stores have them.


--
Scott Vernon
Plowville Pa _/)__/)_/)_


"Parallax" wrote in message
om...
rhys wrote in message
. ..
On 10 Nov 2004 11:55:08 -0800, (Parallax)
wrote:
My hand compass is not lighted and it
would have blinded me to take such a bearing so I used the GPS.
I
completely forgot about simply pointing the boat at the object in
question and using the dimly lighted boat compass.

You know, it strikes me that you could very easily wire an AAA
battery
to a pair of glasses frames, attached to a single red LED of the
appropriate voltage. This would make a great "night light" for
pelorus
bearings and brief looks at charts.

Would look dorky, of course, but I am looking for a functional
five-dollar solution here, not the next $59 special at West
Marine:
"NightSailor Vision Goggles!"

R.

Lol, Dorky minds all think alike. Such a thing actually exists and
is
sold at Wal Mart for about $9.00. I thought of this and remembered
that when I was looking for suitable low cost lights for caving I
had
seen it. Having always been sort of a dorkish geek, the looks won't
bother me.

it wasnt Bermuda, the winds were calm and there are rocks around both Bermuda
and where we were going.

idiots think rocks always are where the charts show them to be.

From: otnmbrd
Date: 11/10/2004 9:57 PM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:



JAXAshby wrote:
lack of experience? I laid off a wide harbor for most of the night on an
island 1500 miles from here last Friday.

Why? Are you telling us you couldn't find your way safely into Bermuda
at night? (you don't mention the weather conditions and I know that YOU
were NOT the person making the decision to lay off)

how about you, over-the-knee? what were you doing? sailing a rubber
ducky?

Last Friday....hmmmmm nope, I was sailing a 650' car carrier out a 290'
wide channel, from a standing start, in 30k of wind which was on my stbd
beam, at night .... ever try that?
Doodles, you are at the low end of "seasonal weekend warrior" BR
(bedroom utility) .... I stand by my statement.

otn

flip-flop loser.

From: otnmbrd
Date: 11/10/2004 10:18 PM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:



JAXAshby wrote:
over-the-knee, you make a loser flip-flop politician look good by
comparison.
so, which it is, o-t-k? making harbor at night is good or bad? keep in
the
mind the original poster was asking about making an unknown harbor, but
expand
the definition to include any harbor you wish, including your bathtub.

Once again, Doodles, your inexperience is showing. Whether it's a known
harbor or an unknown harbor, making the approach can be touchy,
especially at night, and especially if you feel uncomfortable with what
you are seeing.
There's nothing flipflop about my statement, just some good sound
advice, in addition to what Rosalie stated.
The fact that you don't understand either, just adds to our collective
sense of your inexperience.

otn



From: otnmbrd
Date: 11/10/2004 9:30 PM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id: k.net

Always good advice. If you are not familiar with a particular landfall,
never be afraid to hold off or at least do a few "round turns" until you
can feel comfortable with your position and route of approach .... even
with those you are normally familiar with.
Even with GPS, radar, your visual/ mental sense of what is around you
and where you are, is extremely important to your "comfort factor" when
navigating in any restricted or close quarters.

otn

On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 06:42:44 -0500, "Charles T. Low"
[withoutUN] wrote:

Red light is also harder to focus on in dim conditions, esp. as
we grow middle-aged and our "arms shorten."

======================================

That is definitely true. I recommend keeping a pair or two of dime
store reading glasses in your nav station along with an illuminated
magnifier.

Electronic charting on a laptop is an even better solution (paper
charts for backup of course).

On 11 Nov 2004 13:22:55 GMT, (JAXAshby) wrote:

idiots think rocks always are where the charts show them to be.

====================================

It's well known that "jumping rocks" are never where their supposed to
be.

On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 00:46:49 GMT, otnmbrd
wrote:

I had a portable azimuth circle which mounted on the cabin hatch for
taking relative bearings ( could easily be mounted over a binnacle) when
there were two people available. I would use this, compared to a "mark"
heading on the steering compass (which I knew the error to -deviation
tables). This type of rig would need to be boat and/or operator
specific, but coupled with the ole red flashlight, I found it the least
cumbersome .... to each his/her own.

An idea I've seen on a couple of race boats with older skippers are
pieces of tape oriented on the coach house or the coaming or the deck
(your situation will vary) that give 30, 45, 60 and 90 degree bearing
on both tacks. 45 deg forward on a shore mark to abeam or 45 deg aft.
is pretty accurate if you have the chart and can keep even rough
time...a good skill to have when W turns off the GPS or whatever.

The tapes would have to be positioned by trial and error and would be
based on the normal helming position. It's an "at a glance" pilotage
aid that supplements the usual pelorus and/or bulkhead-binnacle
compass bearing. I find it particular useful for running fixes when
I'm alone and using the "60 D St." formula I am sure we all
know...right? G

The pieces of tape needn't be huge, and for night use, they could be
red and green reflective tape of the sort kids put on their bike
frames. The smallest beam of light (say, from a penlight on a lanyard
or a headband) will make them show up without blowing your night
vision.

Jeez, Parallax, whatever you've got is catching! The less I sail (I'm
on the hard for the winter now), the more I invent!

R.

Charles T. Low wrote:
I knew I remembered some problem with the old red-light advice, and found
this reference: www.aoa.org/clincare/aviation-night.asp The problems wasn't
what I thought it was, but the site contains a large amount of fascinating
information about night vision.

One of the problems it mentions regarding red light is that you might not be
able to see red things on your chart. Are any important things on charts
colored red? Red light is also harder to focus on in dim conditions, esp. as
we grow middle-aged and our "arms shorten."

====

Charles T. Low
www.boatdocking.com

There are any number of things in "magenta", which are affected by red
lights.

I understand the US Navy uses dim red light to conserve nite vision, while the
US Army uses dim green and the US Air Force uses dim blue.

take your choice. the only common factor is nite vision and dim

Red light is also harder to focus on in dim conditions, esp. as
we grow middle-aged and our "arms shorten."

======================================

That is definitely true. I recommend keeping a pair or two of dime
store reading glasses in your nav station along with an illuminated
magnifier.

Electronic charting on a laptop is an even better solution (paper
charts for backup of course).

Yes, thank you, my friend, that's my fault for forgetting that you can't see
me wink when I ask a question that I assume is rhetorical(!).

====

Charles T. Low
www.boatdocking.com

====

"otnmbrd" wrote in message
hlink.net...
Charles T. Low wrote:...
Are any important things on charts colored red?

There are any number of things in "magenta", which are affected by red
lights.

Charles T. Low wrote:
Yes, thank you, my friend, that's my fault for forgetting that you can't see
me wink when I ask a question that I assume is rhetorical(!).

====

Charles T. Low
www.boatdocking.com

BG
;)


otn

In article ,
otnmbrd wrote:

JAXAshby wrote:
over-the-knee, you make a loser flip-flop politician look good by
comparison.
so, which it is, o-t-k? making harbor at night is good or bad? keep in
the
mind the original poster was asking about making an unknown harbor, but
expand
the definition to include any harbor you wish, including your bathtub.

Once again, Doodles, your inexperience is showing. Whether it's a known
harbor or an unknown harbor, making the approach can be touchy,
especially at night, and especially if you feel uncomfortable with what
you are seeing.
There's nothing flipflop about my statement, just some good sound
advice, in addition to what Rosalie stated.
The fact that you don't understand either, just adds to our collective
sense of your inexperience.

otn

Known or unknown, any harbor at night can be a problem.

I've entered "a few" at night over the years, and the most difficult to
date was our HOME port. On a dark night, there are only two dim markers
on the bulkhead that are VERY difficult to separate from the background
clutter. Miss them to either side, and we'd be on rather unforgiving
rocks.

We regularly travel after dark on the Chesapeake to extend our (mostly)
weekend range. The anchorages are truly in our back yard and by now, we
know most of them better than most, but in each case, we treat them with
extra respect in the dark. Truth be told, we're more worried about crab
trap floats than the bottom, so enter more comfortably under sail than
power.

--
Jere Lull
Xan-a-Deux ('73 Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD)
Xan's Pages: http://members.dca.net/jerelull/X-Main.html
Our BVI FAQs (290+ pics) http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/