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Courtney Thomas wrote in message ...
Don't know where you'd like to trailer-to, but........have you considered just gettin' a tractor-trailer rig that'll haul what you've got, forgetting building anything, haul it to wherever....and resume sailing, now. I got one from Ebay for $5K, including trailer and hydraulic hoist. You don't need any other credentials since it'd not be a commercial rig, rather your personal vehicle + you can get one with a sleeper, nay, even double; so, you could 'camp out' on the way. If you don't like it, sell it. Good fortune, Courtney Parallax wrote: "Brien Alkire" wrote in message ... I experience peace when I am tuned into the rhythms of the wind, water, sun, moon and tides. The ocean is a place where I often feel very small and insignificant, and there is something enlightening about that experience. I also love the adventure and romance of the sea. These are the reasons I sail. If I only have an afternoon then I love to sail a dinghy. It puts me in closer contact with the wind and water than I would experience on a big boat. But there is a special feeling I can only get by being at sea for one or more days, and that requires a big boat. I can't really put my finger on it. But there's a frame of mind I get into when time is measured in watch cycles and changes in the wind and sea rather than my work day schedule. My questions about boat size vs amount of fun are not to be considered rhetorical. I am actually asking for advice. After my cruise to the Bahamas on my 28' monohull, I have been planning to build a 32' trailerable trimaran. I will be able to sail my S2 until the tri is finished so there is no delayed gratification. However, the fun of sailing the MiniCups has me wondering if maybe a 32' tri is too big and cumbersome. Would maybe a 27' trailer-tri be better and more fun? What is the break point where hassle exceeds fun? I was formerly considering a Kurt Hughes design but then decided that if I spend all this time, I might as well simply buy the folding parts from Farrier and build one of his; my reasoning being that the folding system will make set-up and breakdown easier. Any advice on boat size vs fun for a tri? I actually have considered getting a large truck and trailering my boat around. This really would be the cheapest solution. My fav truck would be a 1949 International KB-5 with a flathead 6 engine. Last ebay bid was $750 and I am sure I could get it in very good shape (engine and brakes that is) for less than $2000. Gawd its a monster, old red paint lots of rust, a REAL machine. However, it would still be good for hauling the tri. After building the MiniCups and the Two-Paw dinghy, I am addicted to baotbuilding. Furthermore, I really like the idea of being able to pull it up to shore or into very shallow water. The cruising speed of nearly 10 kts of the tri beats the mono too. 5 kts for days ata time in the S2 has driven me nuts before. |
Courtney Thomas wrote in message ...
Don't know where you'd like to trailer-to, but........have you considered just gettin' a tractor-trailer rig that'll haul what you've got, forgetting building anything, haul it to wherever....and resume sailing, now. I got one from Ebay for $5K, including trailer and hydraulic hoist. You don't need any other credentials since it'd not be a commercial rig, rather your personal vehicle + you can get one with a sleeper, nay, even double; so, you could 'camp out' on the way. If you don't like it, sell it. Good fortune, Courtney Parallax wrote: "Brien Alkire" wrote in message ... I experience peace when I am tuned into the rhythms of the wind, water, sun, moon and tides. The ocean is a place where I often feel very small and insignificant, and there is something enlightening about that experience. I also love the adventure and romance of the sea. These are the reasons I sail. If I only have an afternoon then I love to sail a dinghy. It puts me in closer contact with the wind and water than I would experience on a big boat. But there is a special feeling I can only get by being at sea for one or more days, and that requires a big boat. I can't really put my finger on it. But there's a frame of mind I get into when time is measured in watch cycles and changes in the wind and sea rather than my work day schedule. My questions about boat size vs amount of fun are not to be considered rhetorical. I am actually asking for advice. After my cruise to the Bahamas on my 28' monohull, I have been planning to build a 32' trailerable trimaran. I will be able to sail my S2 until the tri is finished so there is no delayed gratification. However, the fun of sailing the MiniCups has me wondering if maybe a 32' tri is too big and cumbersome. Would maybe a 27' trailer-tri be better and more fun? What is the break point where hassle exceeds fun? I was formerly considering a Kurt Hughes design but then decided that if I spend all this time, I might as well simply buy the folding parts from Farrier and build one of his; my reasoning being that the folding system will make set-up and breakdown easier. Any advice on boat size vs fun for a tri? I actually have considered getting a large truck and trailering my boat around. This really would be the cheapest solution. My fav truck would be a 1949 International KB-5 with a flathead 6 engine. Last ebay bid was $750 and I am sure I could get it in very good shape (engine and brakes that is) for less than $2000. Gawd its a monster, old red paint lots of rust, a REAL machine. However, it would still be good for hauling the tri. After building the MiniCups and the Two-Paw dinghy, I am addicted to baotbuilding. Furthermore, I really like the idea of being able to pull it up to shore or into very shallow water. The cruising speed of nearly 10 kts of the tri beats the mono too. 5 kts for days ata time in the S2 has driven me nuts before. |
"Parallax" wrote in message om... Courtney Thomas wrote in message ... Don't know where you'd like to trailer-to, but........have you considered just gettin' a tractor-trailer rig that'll haul what you've got, forgetting building anything, haul it to wherever....and resume sailing, now. I got one from Ebay for $5K, including trailer and hydraulic hoist. You don't need any other credentials since it'd not be a commercial rig, rather your personal vehicle + you can get one with a sleeper, nay, even double; so, you could 'camp out' on the way. You'd still need a CDL, and permits for every trip if the boat's over 8'6''. Do you know what the registration costs are? Ever heard of the ''2290'' highway use tax? You'd have to stop at scales and would be susceptible to DOT inspections. And then there's the insurance........ shore or into very shallow water. The cruising speed of nearly 10 kts of the tri beats the mono too. 5 kts for days ata time in the S2 has driven me nuts before. ever considered a speed boat? -- Scott Vernon Plowville Pa _/)__/)_/)_ |
'Course anyone can come up with objections to anything, but in the
interest of facts regarding a tractor-trailer for personal use in hauling your sailboat: No.....a Commercial Driver's License is NOT required. Registration $100/yr for the last one I bought. There's an online outfit to handle state permitting for those not wanting to do it. Ins. ~$500/yr. [for me] All my other vehicles are also inspected, so what..... Many scale stops don't even require stopping if you're not overloaded. .... HTH Scott Vernon wrote: "Parallax" wrote in message om... Courtney Thomas wrote in message ... Don't know where you'd like to trailer-to, but........have you considered just gettin' a tractor-trailer rig that'll haul what you've got, forgetting building anything, haul it to wherever....and resume sailing, now. I got one from Ebay for $5K, including trailer and hydraulic hoist. You don't need any other credentials since it'd not be a commercial rig, rather your personal vehicle + you can get one with a sleeper, nay, even double; so, you could 'camp out' on the way. You'd still need a CDL, and permits for every trip if the boat's over 8'6''. Do you know what the registration costs are? Ever heard of the ''2290'' highway use tax? You'd have to stop at scales and would be susceptible to DOT inspections. And then there's the insurance........ shore or into very shallow water. The cruising speed of nearly 10 kts of the tri beats the mono too. 5 kts for days ata time in the S2 has driven me nuts before. ever considered a speed boat? -- Scott Vernon Plowville Pa _/)__/)_/)_ -- s/v Mutiny Rhodes Bounty II lying Oriental, NC WDB5619 |
"Courtney Thomas" wrote in message ... 'Course anyone can come up with objections to anything, but in the interest of facts regarding a tractor-trailer for personal use in hauling your sailboat: No.....a Commercial Driver's License is NOT required. Do you have an antique small truck without air barakes? Registration $100/yr for the last one I bought. Really, cost me $1800/yr. There's an online outfit to handle state permitting for those not wanting to do it. Yes, at $55 per state. Ins. ~$500/yr. [for me] Some states require 'special' ins. for oversized loads. Where are you? All my other vehicles are also inspected, so what..... Not 'on the spot' DOT inspections. Many scale stops don't even require stopping if you're not overloaded. That is just plain wrong! And -- Scott Vernon Plowville Pa _/)__/)_/)_ |
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"Jere Lull" wrote
.... As it happens, we often get "there" before the multi-hulls. When it's rough, we usually do. If they're cruising like us, we almost always beat them because we are designed for the "extra" weight; they aren't. This comment seems odd to me. One of the oft-cited virtues of multihulls is that they "get there" long before monohulls. This is certainly true in our case. We generally sail 20% faster than comparable monohulls, we power at about 7.5 knots, and can motorsail at 9 knots. On top of that, the ride is usually so easy that it isn't too much of a burden to go 8 to 10 hours, or longer. It is certainly true that overloading a multihull will slow it down proportionally more the monohull. While this is noticeable in a midsize cat (such as our PDQ36) it isn't "fatal" as long as some care is taken. We traveled for a year "fully loaded" and generally considered ourselves the fastest cruising boat around. (Of course, we weren't challenging any racing boats to a round-the-buoys race in light air.) However, when you go below 30 feet, the options in cats get rather limited. For cats, the bridge deck clearance get very small, so overloading can cause problems in a chop. For trimarans, they are normally designed for speed, and are so light that overloading would dramatically affect trim. For example, a F27 only weighs 2600 pounds - that's probably equal to what we carried (including fluids). So Jere, I'd be very curious as to which multihulls you think you're faster than, and under what conditions. -- -jeff www.sv-loki.com "The sea was angry that day, my friend. Like an old man trying to send back soup at the deli." |
In article ,
"Jeff Morris" wrote: "Jere Lull" wrote ... As it happens, we often get "there" before the multi-hulls. When it's rough, we usually do. If they're cruising like us, we almost always beat them because we are designed for the "extra" weight; they aren't. This comment seems odd to me. One of the oft-cited virtues of multihulls is that they "get there" long before monohulls. This is certainly true in our case. We generally sail 20% faster than comparable monohulls, we power at about 7.5 knots, and can motorsail at 9 knots. On top of that, the ride is usually so easy that it isn't too much of a burden to go 8 to 10 hours, or longer. It is certainly true that overloading a multihull will slow it down proportionally more the monohull. While this is noticeable in a midsize cat (such as our PDQ36) it isn't "fatal" as long as some care is taken. We traveled for a year "fully loaded" and generally considered ourselves the fastest cruising boat around. (Of course, we weren't challenging any racing boats to a round-the-buoys race in light air.) However, when you go below 30 feet, the options in cats get rather limited. For cats, the bridge deck clearance get very small, so overloading can cause problems in a chop. For trimarans, they are normally designed for speed, and are so light that overloading would dramatically affect trim. For example, a F27 only weighs 2600 pounds - that's probably equal to what we carried (including fluids). So Jere, I'd be very curious as to which multihulls you think you're faster than, and under what conditions. A couple of months ago, we went out and terrorized a couple of Geminis head to head. Passed them handily -- on every point of sail -- and they were being fairly well sailed in just about ideal conditions. One of the Geminis was a friend I was trying to find to take pics of. I chose the wrong one first. Comparing notes over the years, they don't like windward or rough weather work much, and don't motor worth a darn. Slightest wave seems to knock them aside. Also chartered a Gemini in Florida for a day a couple of years ago. Perfect conditions and she flew, but the speeds seemed to be about what I would have expected on Xan. And they *are* lightly built boats. Had an indirect "race" with a 36' (?) Island Packet in about 20 knots, broad reach, on the lower Bay. We started about the same time from the same place and wound up docked next to each other. Comparing notes: What a dog! The past few 4th of July weekends, passed a total of 3 cats, from a French 33 to an about 40' charter cat. All of us were under chute in lightish winds between Rock Hall and Annapolis. Much of the time, we were on autopilot with an overtrimmed chute, so it wasn't like I was trying that hard. All the above had waterline on us, and we carry a LOT of extra gear aboard. Now, Xan's a feisty little girl and often does things that shouldn't be possible, but we've passed too many cats over the years to think much of their overall sailing abilities. Yes, they can burst to nice speed (have done it in the BVI), but over the long haul, they don't seem to really go faster unless you have an attentive crew, and that's just not cruising. I'd love see what the PDQ does, but haven't seen one on the water that I know of. -- Jere Lull Xan-a-Deux ('73 Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD) Xan's Pages: http://members.dca.net/jerelull/X-Main.html Our BVI FAQs (290+ pics) http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/ |
On Wed, 27 Oct 2004 07:08:42 GMT, Jere Lull wrote:
Now, Xan's a feisty little girl and often does things that shouldn't be possible, but we've passed too many cats over the years to think much of their overall sailing abilities. Jere's right. Waterline length is obviously an important component of overall speed, but it's only part of the puzzle. Angle of heel, ballast ratio, rigging and pure seamanship all play a part. In informal "throw-down" sprints in the fall and spring when the wind's up on Lake Ontario, I regularly smoke much larger boats in 20 knots or so. My boat's 33 feet and 32 years old and about 9,800 lbs. in the slings. I've beaten C&C 35s, Hughes 38s and memorably, a Goderich 40 cutter ketch speed over ground. Why? Because I know generally how to get the best out of my boat; I have hank-on sails and a huge J measurement that allow me to point pretty high, and a tiller that allows me to steer with my knees while I trim sails. I also don't have a lot of heavy stuff on board, because I like fast cruising even though I don't club race my own boat. Now, all these flashy racing moves were done on a reach to a haul. My IOR-stype high-aspect main is not very helpful on a run by the same logic. I think catamarans are great and that there's going to be considerable refinement of them as long-term cruising boats in the coming years. But I suspect they are fundamentally a different type of sailing experience than that of monohull sailing in that the "tweaks" available to catamaran sailors are fewer than to me. Sure, when conditions are right they go like stink and OVERALL are bound to be faster. So's a Star dinghy. But I can see where a '70s monohull production cruiser like Jere's boat (and I know the type well as I nearly bought one) can "beat" bigger boats that aren't, for whatever reason, sailing to their full potential. R. |
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