First boat refit trip and start of the casting-off process
 

Last week, I went to commence work on our future home. I'm a reasonable
day's drive from north of Atlanta to St. Pete, so I expect I'll make many
trips up and down the road in the course of accomplishing all we want to do
on her. Nothing had been done, despite having already set things up with
both the yard and another contractor, since the boat landed on April 2, so
I'm anticipating that, unless I'm there, it will be the same in the future.

We're making progress very slowly. Last week was the first I was back since
the purchase and very exciting shakedown and delivery cruise. Providently,
we did not make it into Charlotte Harbor Boat Storage, going very firmly
aground and having to be pulled off by BoatUS to the tune of many hundreds
of dollars, but it was less than the thousand deductible - and lots of
damage! - we'd have suffered had we been in that yard, with the eye of
Charley passing directly over, and mayhem abounding as a result.

So, we're in Salt Creek Marina, and the only casualties from all the
hurricanes was the awning and some small bimini tears. My shoulder
operation went well but there was an infection which set me back; I may need
another operation later, but we won't know until this round of therapy is
finished. In the meantime we're still trying to sell both our houses.
Lydia's first listing contract expired this month, and she has a new
listing, with a large caravan of realtors looking at her house on Tuesday.
I've had a sign up on the dock for a few months and have a very interested
couple who say they're going to make us an offer, but have not yet; they're
coming back next weekend for their 4th visit. Practically speaking, we
can't leave without our homes selling, as we don't want to put them in the
rental fleet, and I likely will have additional issues with my shoulder,
causing further delay. However, I've learned, over my life, that all things
happen in their own time and pushing them rarely works to do more than
frustrate the pusher! I will, however, this week, list my home.

Back to the boat, our trip over to St. Pete was very exciting. I don't know
if I'd told you about it (let me know if not - it's quite a story), but
among other excitement we tore the transmission out of the plate on the bell
housing, and had the stern head clog completely (salts in the very high
vented loop pipe), and the forward head leak a lot - we rebuilt both of them
while we stopped in Key West to get a come-along to pull the tranny in tight
enough to have reverse (I'd managed to horse it into place and use rope to
tie it, but that only worked for forward; it pulled out again in reverse).
However, in very rough weather (25-30+ the entire two weeks), we were
thrilled with her performance in every regard. The plumbing was dealt with,
and the tranny sufficed as it was, following our dead-sticking a couple of
anchoring and departures, until we could get the come-along. These were
really very minor nuisances in what was otherwise an unabashedly marvelous
trip.

On the subject of work we're doing/plans progressing, I'd originally thought
to scrub and paint the bilge with some sort of mega-gloss paint (think Miss
Munley). I'd brought up the concept in a variety of forums since there were
some comments about trying to make their boats look better.

I got enough negative feedback about painting the bilge that I'm not doing
it for the time being. There was water over the engine pan when I arrived,
having turned everything off before I left (so, no automatic bilge). I
drained it, and then squirt/sprayed the entirety with a degreaser and let it
sit a couple of days while I did other stuff (see below). I then hit it
with a hard spray of water, flushing aggressively, and pumped some more.
After that, I did the spray-the-sides route again, following up with a scrub
brush, and rinsed and did more power (hose pressure) washing of the bilge.
The washing process wasn't much different from what we did during the
survey, other than that I scrubbed rather than just hosing it off.

So, it's reasonably clean. I was advised against an oil base or alkyd paint
due to mildew propensities, and went with a high-quality exterior gloss
primer with mildewcide mixed in for the vinyl covering on the walls. It
looks great, and I expect I'll not use anywhere near the entire gallon in
doing the entirety of the vinyl, plus the various flat under-cushion places.
I got it at Home Depot, and the paint specialist there recommended it
specifically - and yet, it was under 16/gallon. Put it on with throw-away
(bristle) brushes and it went on very easily, even with the very rough
surface of the vinyl Charley Morgan liked so well :{))

Everyone I talked with, and whose marine chops I respect, told me to use
high quality exterior latex, just like on the house, for anything in the
interior. So, I'm going to do the repaint of all the wooden surfaces which
are invisible normally, and reserve judgment on the vertical visible
surfaces, which are currently sort of eggshell, or almost Island Packet
ivory, in color, where they're not teak.

Back to the bilge, I'm going to think about that for a while, at least in
the areas which are likely to be submerged. For the rest of the hull, I'll
do the same paint. And, there will be a fair amount of it, too, because...

I'm taking out the AC, and the stern ducting is already gone. I bet I
gained not less than a cubic yard of storage just with the piping. It made
the painting of the interior of the closets a great deal easier, I can tell
you for sure. The forward pipes are next, and I believe I have the stern
unit sold; the forward and the generator will go on consignment with the
yard guy I'm using.

I'm taking out the generator because it takes up so much bloody room, and
everything I read suggests that I should easily be able to get my solar and
wind power to keep up with a very large load (I don't yet have the foggiest
of clues about how much electrical budget I'll need, but if I can generate a
couple hundred amp hours a day, it shouldn't matter!). I'm also doing new
refrigeration, beginning with taking off the counter top and redoing the
insulation, also probably adding insulation *inside* the box, and redoing
the top to include two holes and stout insulation. I've not yet really done
enough research, but it looks like Glacier Bay DC and holding plates, with
"gray board" with foil on both sides, about 4" buildup on all sides (making
about an R60). That should still allow me a usable reefer/freezer
compartment which is bigger than my home box! and if I use small circulating
fans, the usage of the compressor ought to be fairly minimal. If I was
happier about the evaporators, I'd use that, as the load would be spread out
more evenly, but, as above about solar and wind.

This trip, I got repairs and restitching on the torn bimini (chafe from the
flapping tattered awning), the MackStackPack (old, worn) and a new zipper on
one of the Vee cushions' covers done and all reinstalled, the old aft head
piping (and the Lectra-San) removed in prep for getting the tranny out to
get the new plate and then realign with new motor mounts and stuffing box.
In the course of getting out the Lectra-San and the associated piping and
wiring, a great deal of the hull exterior was exposed. When the two reefer
units and the genset's out, I'll do the same for the engine room - spray
down with cleaner, let sit, hose off, spray and scrub and rinse, dry, then
paint in white gloss. That engine room has enough room to actually *work*
in, if there's not so much stuff in the way!

The carpenter is started on making the aft berth queen width with the added
step and storage at the bottom in the aft cabin, as well as chasing the
various leaks, beginning with removing the staysail traveler and refinishing
the wood under it before rebedding. Most of the leaks, I think, are a
matter of rebedding, so it's pretty straightforward. He'll also be doing
the workbench modifications to allow a flip-up access to umpteen bins'
storage in the walkthrough (see M46Mods in my gallery - another Munley
idea).

The folks who will take out the generator will also resolve the running and
masthead and spreader lights issues. I'll take off all the radios to have
them checked out and then, if they work on the bench, start tracing where
the problem lies on the outside. I'll also take off the windlass and have
it serviced, even though it works just fine, as there's a fair amount of
corrosion on it belowdecks.

An arch is in the future, and I got some great ideas from a couple of folks,
one of whom knew of a M46 for sale in the PNW (Misty Isles) due to a divorce
and buyout by the wife, who doesn't want the boat.

All in all, a most productive 3 days (the first it was raining 1.4 inches in
6 hours, so we didn't do much outside the boat other than move the tools
inside! - and I left on Friday AM). I'm expecting to go back in 4 weeks
(well, three, really), to hit it some more. This time I'll be taking along
a guy who's building his own boat, but would like to see at least *one*
project finished! I'll have some updates to my gallery after the next
visit - all the pix I took this time were of destruction/removal! - when
I'll document the new/repairs work.

L8R

Skip and Lydia, champing at the bit, now that refit has actually started!

Morgan 461 #2
SV Flying Pig
http://tinyurl.com/384p2

"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you
didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail
away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore.
Dream. Discover." - Mark Twain

Skip, I think there will be times when you'd like to have that
generator and at least one A/C unit. It can get very toasty below
decks on a hot day, and having the generator also gives you a lot of
flexibility for meeting your power needs with other things, or for a
quick recharge when you need it.

=================================================

On Tue, 19 Oct 2004 10:10:38 -0400, "Skip Gundlach" skip sez make
this all one word with my last name next to my first gundlach@adelphia
dot fish catcher net (sorry bout the spamtrap!) wrote:

Last week, I went to commence work on our future home. I'm a reasonable
day's drive from north of Atlanta to St. Pete, so I expect I'll make many
trips up and down the road in the course of accomplishing all we want to do
on her. Nothing had been done, despite having already set things up with
both the yard and another contractor, since the boat landed on April 2, so
I'm anticipating that, unless I'm there, it will be the same in the future.

We're making progress very slowly. Last week was the first I was back since
the purchase and very exciting shakedown and delivery cruise. Providently,
we did not make it into Charlotte Harbor Boat Storage, going very firmly
aground and having to be pulled off by BoatUS to the tune of many hundreds
of dollars, but it was less than the thousand deductible - and lots of
damage! - we'd have suffered had we been in that yard, with the eye of
Charley passing directly over, and mayhem abounding as a result.

So, we're in Salt Creek Marina, and the only casualties from all the
hurricanes was the awning and some small bimini tears. My shoulder
operation went well but there was an infection which set me back; I may need
another operation later, but we won't know until this round of therapy is
finished. In the meantime we're still trying to sell both our houses.
Lydia's first listing contract expired this month, and she has a new
listing, with a large caravan of realtors looking at her house on Tuesday.
I've had a sign up on the dock for a few months and have a very interested
couple who say they're going to make us an offer, but have not yet; they're
coming back next weekend for their 4th visit. Practically speaking, we
can't leave without our homes selling, as we don't want to put them in the
rental fleet, and I likely will have additional issues with my shoulder,
causing further delay. However, I've learned, over my life, that all things
happen in their own time and pushing them rarely works to do more than
frustrate the pusher! I will, however, this week, list my home.

Back to the boat, our trip over to St. Pete was very exciting. I don't know
if I'd told you about it (let me know if not - it's quite a story), but
among other excitement we tore the transmission out of the plate on the bell
housing, and had the stern head clog completely (salts in the very high
vented loop pipe), and the forward head leak a lot - we rebuilt both of them
while we stopped in Key West to get a come-along to pull the tranny in tight
enough to have reverse (I'd managed to horse it into place and use rope to
tie it, but that only worked for forward; it pulled out again in reverse).
However, in very rough weather (25-30+ the entire two weeks), we were
thrilled with her performance in every regard. The plumbing was dealt with,
and the tranny sufficed as it was, following our dead-sticking a couple of
anchoring and departures, until we could get the come-along. These were
really very minor nuisances in what was otherwise an unabashedly marvelous
trip.

On the subject of work we're doing/plans progressing, I'd originally thought
to scrub and paint the bilge with some sort of mega-gloss paint (think Miss
Munley). I'd brought up the concept in a variety of forums since there were
some comments about trying to make their boats look better.

I got enough negative feedback about painting the bilge that I'm not doing
it for the time being. There was water over the engine pan when I arrived,
having turned everything off before I left (so, no automatic bilge). I
drained it, and then squirt/sprayed the entirety with a degreaser and let it
sit a couple of days while I did other stuff (see below). I then hit it
with a hard spray of water, flushing aggressively, and pumped some more.
After that, I did the spray-the-sides route again, following up with a scrub
brush, and rinsed and did more power (hose pressure) washing of the bilge.
The washing process wasn't much different from what we did during the
survey, other than that I scrubbed rather than just hosing it off.

So, it's reasonably clean. I was advised against an oil base or alkyd paint
due to mildew propensities, and went with a high-quality exterior gloss
primer with mildewcide mixed in for the vinyl covering on the walls. It
looks great, and I expect I'll not use anywhere near the entire gallon in
doing the entirety of the vinyl, plus the various flat under-cushion places.
I got it at Home Depot, and the paint specialist there recommended it
specifically - and yet, it was under 16/gallon. Put it on with throw-away
(bristle) brushes and it went on very easily, even with the very rough
surface of the vinyl Charley Morgan liked so well :{))

Everyone I talked with, and whose marine chops I respect, told me to use
high quality exterior latex, just like on the house, for anything in the
interior. So, I'm going to do the repaint of all the wooden surfaces which
are invisible normally, and reserve judgment on the vertical visible
surfaces, which are currently sort of eggshell, or almost Island Packet
ivory, in color, where they're not teak.

Back to the bilge, I'm going to think about that for a while, at least in
the areas which are likely to be submerged. For the rest of the hull, I'll
do the same paint. And, there will be a fair amount of it, too, because...

I'm taking out the AC, and the stern ducting is already gone. I bet I
gained not less than a cubic yard of storage just with the piping. It made
the painting of the interior of the closets a great deal easier, I can tell
you for sure. The forward pipes are next, and I believe I have the stern
unit sold; the forward and the generator will go on consignment with the
yard guy I'm using.

I'm taking out the generator because it takes up so much bloody room, and
everything I read suggests that I should easily be able to get my solar and
wind power to keep up with a very large load (I don't yet have the foggiest
of clues about how much electrical budget I'll need, but if I can generate a
couple hundred amp hours a day, it shouldn't matter!). I'm also doing new
refrigeration, beginning with taking off the counter top and redoing the
insulation, also probably adding insulation *inside* the box, and redoing
the top to include two holes and stout insulation. I've not yet really done
enough research, but it looks like Glacier Bay DC and holding plates, with
"gray board" with foil on both sides, about 4" buildup on all sides (making
about an R60). That should still allow me a usable reefer/freezer
compartment which is bigger than my home box! and if I use small circulating
fans, the usage of the compressor ought to be fairly minimal. If I was
happier about the evaporators, I'd use that, as the load would be spread out
more evenly, but, as above about solar and wind.

This trip, I got repairs and restitching on the torn bimini (chafe from the
flapping tattered awning), the MackStackPack (old, worn) and a new zipper on
one of the Vee cushions' covers done and all reinstalled, the old aft head
piping (and the Lectra-San) removed in prep for getting the tranny out to
get the new plate and then realign with new motor mounts and stuffing box.
In the course of getting out the Lectra-San and the associated piping and
wiring, a great deal of the hull exterior was exposed. When the two reefer
units and the genset's out, I'll do the same for the engine room - spray
down with cleaner, let sit, hose off, spray and scrub and rinse, dry, then
paint in white gloss. That engine room has enough room to actually *work*
in, if there's not so much stuff in the way!

The carpenter is started on making the aft berth queen width with the added
step and storage at the bottom in the aft cabin, as well as chasing the
various leaks, beginning with removing the staysail traveler and refinishing
the wood under it before rebedding. Most of the leaks, I think, are a
matter of rebedding, so it's pretty straightforward. He'll also be doing
the workbench modifications to allow a flip-up access to umpteen bins'
storage in the walkthrough (see M46Mods in my gallery - another Munley
idea).

The folks who will take out the generator will also resolve the running and
masthead and spreader lights issues. I'll take off all the radios to have
them checked out and then, if they work on the bench, start tracing where
the problem lies on the outside. I'll also take off the windlass and have
it serviced, even though it works just fine, as there's a fair amount of
corrosion on it belowdecks.

An arch is in the future, and I got some great ideas from a couple of folks,
one of whom knew of a M46 for sale in the PNW (Misty Isles) due to a divorce
and buyout by the wife, who doesn't want the boat.

All in all, a most productive 3 days (the first it was raining 1.4 inches in
6 hours, so we didn't do much outside the boat other than move the tools
inside! - and I left on Friday AM). I'm expecting to go back in 4 weeks
(well, three, really), to hit it some more. This time I'll be taking along
a guy who's building his own boat, but would like to see at least *one*
project finished! I'll have some updates to my gallery after the next
visit - all the pix I took this time were of destruction/removal! - when
I'll document the new/repairs work.

L8R

Skip and Lydia, champing at the bit, now that refit has actually started!

Morgan 461 #2
SV Flying Pig
http://tinyurl.com/384p2

"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you
didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail
away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore.
Dream. Discover." - Mark Twain

If you are going to have GB Fridge you might want to re-consider keeping the
generator.

Speeking form experience.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne.B"
Newsgroups: rec.boats.building,rec.boats.cruising
Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2004 12:07 PM
Subject: First boat refit trip and start of the casting-off process


Skip, I think there will be times when you'd like to have that
generator and at least one A/C unit. It can get very toasty below
decks on a hot day, and having the generator also gives you a lot of
flexibility for meeting your power needs with other things, or for a
quick recharge when you need it.

=================================================

On Tue, 19 Oct 2004 10:10:38 -0400, "Skip Gundlach" skip sez make
this all one word with my last name next to my first gundlach@adelphia
dot fish catcher net (sorry bout the spamtrap!) wrote:

Last week, I went to commence work on our future home. I'm a reasonable
day's drive from north of Atlanta to St. Pete, so I expect I'll make many
trips up and down the road in the course of accomplishing all we want to
do
on her. Nothing had been done, despite having already set things up with
both the yard and another contractor, since the boat landed on April 2, so
I'm anticipating that, unless I'm there, it will be the same in the
future.

We're making progress very slowly. Last week was the first I was back
since
the purchase and very exciting shakedown and delivery cruise. Providently,
we did not make it into Charlotte Harbor Boat Storage, going very firmly
aground and having to be pulled off by BoatUS to the tune of many hundreds
of dollars, but it was less than the thousand deductible - and lots of
damage! - we'd have suffered had we been in that yard, with the eye of
Charley passing directly over, and mayhem abounding as a result.

So, we're in Salt Creek Marina, and the only casualties from all the
hurricanes was the awning and some small bimini tears. My shoulder
operation went well but there was an infection which set me back; I may
need
another operation later, but we won't know until this round of therapy is
finished. In the meantime we're still trying to sell both our houses.
Lydia's first listing contract expired this month, and she has a new
listing, with a large caravan of realtors looking at her house on Tuesday.
I've had a sign up on the dock for a few months and have a very interested
couple who say they're going to make us an offer, but have not yet;
they're
coming back next weekend for their 4th visit. Practically speaking, we
can't leave without our homes selling, as we don't want to put them in the
rental fleet, and I likely will have additional issues with my shoulder,
causing further delay. However, I've learned, over my life, that all
things
happen in their own time and pushing them rarely works to do more than
frustrate the pusher! I will, however, this week, list my home.

Back to the boat, our trip over to St. Pete was very exciting. I don't
know
if I'd told you about it (let me know if not - it's quite a story), but
among other excitement we tore the transmission out of the plate on the
bell
housing, and had the stern head clog completely (salts in the very high
vented loop pipe), and the forward head leak a lot - we rebuilt both of
them
while we stopped in Key West to get a come-along to pull the tranny in
tight
enough to have reverse (I'd managed to horse it into place and use rope to
tie it, but that only worked for forward; it pulled out again in reverse).
However, in very rough weather (25-30+ the entire two weeks), we were
thrilled with her performance in every regard. The plumbing was dealt
with,
and the tranny sufficed as it was, following our dead-sticking a couple of
anchoring and departures, until we could get the come-along. These were
really very minor nuisances in what was otherwise an unabashedly marvelous
trip.

On the subject of work we're doing/plans progressing, I'd originally
thought
to scrub and paint the bilge with some sort of mega-gloss paint (think
Miss
Munley). I'd brought up the concept in a variety of forums since there
were
some comments about trying to make their boats look better.

I got enough negative feedback about painting the bilge that I'm not doing
it for the time being. There was water over the engine pan when I
arrived,
having turned everything off before I left (so, no automatic bilge). I
drained it, and then squirt/sprayed the entirety with a degreaser and let
it
sit a couple of days while I did other stuff (see below). I then hit it
with a hard spray of water, flushing aggressively, and pumped some more.
After that, I did the spray-the-sides route again, following up with a
scrub
brush, and rinsed and did more power (hose pressure) washing of the bilge.
The washing process wasn't much different from what we did during the
survey, other than that I scrubbed rather than just hosing it off.

So, it's reasonably clean. I was advised against an oil base or alkyd
paint
due to mildew propensities, and went with a high-quality exterior gloss
primer with mildewcide mixed in for the vinyl covering on the walls. It
looks great, and I expect I'll not use anywhere near the entire gallon in
doing the entirety of the vinyl, plus the various flat under-cushion
places.
I got it at Home Depot, and the paint specialist there recommended it
specifically - and yet, it was under 16/gallon. Put it on with throw-away
(bristle) brushes and it went on very easily, even with the very rough
surface of the vinyl Charley Morgan liked so well :{))

Everyone I talked with, and whose marine chops I respect, told me to use
high quality exterior latex, just like on the house, for anything in the
interior. So, I'm going to do the repaint of all the wooden surfaces
which
are invisible normally, and reserve judgment on the vertical visible
surfaces, which are currently sort of eggshell, or almost Island Packet
ivory, in color, where they're not teak.

Back to the bilge, I'm going to think about that for a while, at least in
the areas which are likely to be submerged. For the rest of the hull,
I'll
do the same paint. And, there will be a fair amount of it, too,
because...

I'm taking out the AC, and the stern ducting is already gone. I bet I
gained not less than a cubic yard of storage just with the piping. It
made
the painting of the interior of the closets a great deal easier, I can
tell
you for sure. The forward pipes are next, and I believe I have the stern
unit sold; the forward and the generator will go on consignment with the
yard guy I'm using.

I'm taking out the generator because it takes up so much bloody room, and
everything I read suggests that I should easily be able to get my solar
and
wind power to keep up with a very large load (I don't yet have the
foggiest
of clues about how much electrical budget I'll need, but if I can generate
a
couple hundred amp hours a day, it shouldn't matter!). I'm also doing new
refrigeration, beginning with taking off the counter top and redoing the
insulation, also probably adding insulation *inside* the box, and redoing
the top to include two holes and stout insulation. I've not yet really
done
enough research, but it looks like Glacier Bay DC and holding plates, with
"gray board" with foil on both sides, about 4" buildup on all sides
(making
about an R60). That should still allow me a usable reefer/freezer
compartment which is bigger than my home box! and if I use small
circulating
fans, the usage of the compressor ought to be fairly minimal. If I was
happier about the evaporators, I'd use that, as the load would be spread
out
more evenly, but, as above about solar and wind.

This trip, I got repairs and restitching on the torn bimini (chafe from
the
flapping tattered awning), the MackStackPack (old, worn) and a new zipper
on
one of the Vee cushions' covers done and all reinstalled, the old aft head
piping (and the Lectra-San) removed in prep for getting the tranny out to
get the new plate and then realign with new motor mounts and stuffing box.
In the course of getting out the Lectra-San and the associated piping and
wiring, a great deal of the hull exterior was exposed. When the two
reefer
units and the genset's out, I'll do the same for the engine room - spray
down with cleaner, let sit, hose off, spray and scrub and rinse, dry, then
paint in white gloss. That engine room has enough room to actually *work*
in, if there's not so much stuff in the way!

The carpenter is started on making the aft berth queen width with the
added
step and storage at the bottom in the aft cabin, as well as chasing the
various leaks, beginning with removing the staysail traveler and
refinishing
the wood under it before rebedding. Most of the leaks, I think, are a
matter of rebedding, so it's pretty straightforward. He'll also be doing
the workbench modifications to allow a flip-up access to umpteen bins'
storage in the walkthrough (see M46Mods in my gallery - another Munley
idea).

The folks who will take out the generator will also resolve the running
and
masthead and spreader lights issues. I'll take off all the radios to have
them checked out and then, if they work on the bench, start tracing where
the problem lies on the outside. I'll also take off the windlass and have
it serviced, even though it works just fine, as there's a fair amount of
corrosion on it belowdecks.

An arch is in the future, and I got some great ideas from a couple of
folks,
one of whom knew of a M46 for sale in the PNW (Misty Isles) due to a
divorce
and buyout by the wife, who doesn't want the boat.

All in all, a most productive 3 days (the first it was raining 1.4 inches
in
6 hours, so we didn't do much outside the boat other than move the tools
inside! - and I left on Friday AM). I'm expecting to go back in 4 weeks
(well, three, really), to hit it some more. This time I'll be taking
along
a guy who's building his own boat, but would like to see at least *one*
project finished! I'll have some updates to my gallery after the next
visit - all the pix I took this time were of destruction/removal! - when
I'll document the new/repairs work.

L8R

Skip and Lydia, champing at the bit, now that refit has actually started!

Morgan 461 #2
SV Flying Pig
http://tinyurl.com/384p2

"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you
didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail
away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore.
Dream. Discover." - Mark Twain



"Skip Gundlach" skip sez make this all one word with my last name next to
my first gundlach@adelphia dot fish catcher net (sorry bout the spamtrap!)
wrote in message ...
Last week, I went to commence work on our future home. I'm a reasonable
day's drive from north of Atlanta to St. Pete, so I expect I'll make many
trips up and down the road in the course of accomplishing all we want to
do
on her. Nothing had been done, despite having already set things up with
both the yard and another contractor, since the boat landed on April 2, so
I'm anticipating that, unless I'm there, it will be the same in the
future.

We're making progress very slowly. Last week was the first I was back
since
the purchase and very exciting shakedown and delivery cruise.
Providently,
we did not make it into Charlotte Harbor Boat Storage, going very firmly
aground and having to be pulled off by BoatUS to the tune of many hundreds
of dollars, but it was less than the thousand deductible - and lots of
damage! - we'd have suffered had we been in that yard, with the eye of
Charley passing directly over, and mayhem abounding as a result.

So, we're in Salt Creek Marina, and the only casualties from all the
hurricanes was the awning and some small bimini tears. My shoulder
operation went well but there was an infection which set me back; I may
need
another operation later, but we won't know until this round of therapy is
finished. In the meantime we're still trying to sell both our houses.
Lydia's first listing contract expired this month, and she has a new
listing, with a large caravan of realtors looking at her house on Tuesday.
I've had a sign up on the dock for a few months and have a very interested
couple who say they're going to make us an offer, but have not yet;
they're
coming back next weekend for their 4th visit. Practically speaking, we
can't leave without our homes selling, as we don't want to put them in the
rental fleet, and I likely will have additional issues with my shoulder,
causing further delay. However, I've learned, over my life, that all
things
happen in their own time and pushing them rarely works to do more than
frustrate the pusher! I will, however, this week, list my home.

Back to the boat, our trip over to St. Pete was very exciting. I don't
know
if I'd told you about it (let me know if not - it's quite a story), but
among other excitement we tore the transmission out of the plate on the
bell
housing, and had the stern head clog completely (salts in the very high
vented loop pipe), and the forward head leak a lot - we rebuilt both of
them
while we stopped in Key West to get a come-along to pull the tranny in
tight
enough to have reverse (I'd managed to horse it into place and use rope to
tie it, but that only worked for forward; it pulled out again in reverse).
However, in very rough weather (25-30+ the entire two weeks), we were
thrilled with her performance in every regard. The plumbing was dealt
with,
and the tranny sufficed as it was, following our dead-sticking a couple of
anchoring and departures, until we could get the come-along. These were
really very minor nuisances in what was otherwise an unabashedly marvelous
trip.

On the subject of work we're doing/plans progressing, I'd originally
thought
to scrub and paint the bilge with some sort of mega-gloss paint (think
Miss
Munley). I'd brought up the concept in a variety of forums since there
were
some comments about trying to make their boats look better.

I got enough negative feedback about painting the bilge that I'm not doing
it for the time being. There was water over the engine pan when I
arrived,
having turned everything off before I left (so, no automatic bilge). I
drained it, and then squirt/sprayed the entirety with a degreaser and let
it
sit a couple of days while I did other stuff (see below). I then hit it
with a hard spray of water, flushing aggressively, and pumped some more.
After that, I did the spray-the-sides route again, following up with a
scrub
brush, and rinsed and did more power (hose pressure) washing of the bilge.
The washing process wasn't much different from what we did during the
survey, other than that I scrubbed rather than just hosing it off.

So, it's reasonably clean. I was advised against an oil base or alkyd
paint
due to mildew propensities, and went with a high-quality exterior gloss
primer with mildewcide mixed in for the vinyl covering on the walls. It
looks great, and I expect I'll not use anywhere near the entire gallon in
doing the entirety of the vinyl, plus the various flat under-cushion
places.
I got it at Home Depot, and the paint specialist there recommended it
specifically - and yet, it was under 16/gallon. Put it on with throw-away
(bristle) brushes and it went on very easily, even with the very rough
surface of the vinyl Charley Morgan liked so well :{))

Everyone I talked with, and whose marine chops I respect, told me to use
high quality exterior latex, just like on the house, for anything in the
interior. So, I'm going to do the repaint of all the wooden surfaces
which
are invisible normally, and reserve judgment on the vertical visible
surfaces, which are currently sort of eggshell, or almost Island Packet
ivory, in color, where they're not teak.

Back to the bilge, I'm going to think about that for a while, at least in
the areas which are likely to be submerged. For the rest of the hull,
I'll
do the same paint. And, there will be a fair amount of it, too,
because...

I'm taking out the AC, and the stern ducting is already gone. I bet I
gained not less than a cubic yard of storage just with the piping. It
made
the painting of the interior of the closets a great deal easier, I can
tell
you for sure. The forward pipes are next, and I believe I have the stern
unit sold; the forward and the generator will go on consignment with the
yard guy I'm using.

I'm taking out the generator because it takes up so much bloody room, and
everything I read suggests that I should easily be able to get my solar
and
wind power to keep up with a very large load (I don't yet have the
foggiest
of clues about how much electrical budget I'll need, but if I can generate
a
couple hundred amp hours a day, it shouldn't matter!). I'm also doing new
refrigeration, beginning with taking off the counter top and redoing the
insulation, also probably adding insulation *inside* the box, and redoing
the top to include two holes and stout insulation. I've not yet really
done
enough research, but it looks like Glacier Bay DC and holding plates, with
"gray board" with foil on both sides, about 4" buildup on all sides
(making
about an R60). That should still allow me a usable reefer/freezer
compartment which is bigger than my home box! and if I use small
circulating
fans, the usage of the compressor ought to be fairly minimal. If I was
happier about the evaporators, I'd use that, as the load would be spread
out
more evenly, but, as above about solar and wind.

This trip, I got repairs and restitching on the torn bimini (chafe from
the
flapping tattered awning), the MackStackPack (old, worn) and a new zipper
on
one of the Vee cushions' covers done and all reinstalled, the old aft head
piping (and the Lectra-San) removed in prep for getting the tranny out to
get the new plate and then realign with new motor mounts and stuffing box.
In the course of getting out the Lectra-San and the associated piping and
wiring, a great deal of the hull exterior was exposed. When the two
reefer
units and the genset's out, I'll do the same for the engine room - spray
down with cleaner, let sit, hose off, spray and scrub and rinse, dry, then
paint in white gloss. That engine room has enough room to actually *work*
in, if there's not so much stuff in the way!

The carpenter is started on making the aft berth queen width with the
added
step and storage at the bottom in the aft cabin, as well as chasing the
various leaks, beginning with removing the staysail traveler and
refinishing
the wood under it before rebedding. Most of the leaks, I think, are a
matter of rebedding, so it's pretty straightforward. He'll also be doing
the workbench modifications to allow a flip-up access to umpteen bins'
storage in the walkthrough (see M46Mods in my gallery - another Munley
idea).

The folks who will take out the generator will also resolve the running
and
masthead and spreader lights issues. I'll take off all the radios to have
them checked out and then, if they work on the bench, start tracing where
the problem lies on the outside. I'll also take off the windlass and have
it serviced, even though it works just fine, as there's a fair amount of
corrosion on it belowdecks.

An arch is in the future, and I got some great ideas from a couple of
folks,
one of whom knew of a M46 for sale in the PNW (Misty Isles) due to a
divorce
and buyout by the wife, who doesn't want the boat.

All in all, a most productive 3 days (the first it was raining 1.4 inches
in
6 hours, so we didn't do much outside the boat other than move the tools
inside! - and I left on Friday AM). I'm expecting to go back in 4 weeks
(well, three, really), to hit it some more. This time I'll be taking
along
a guy who's building his own boat, but would like to see at least *one*
project finished! I'll have some updates to my gallery after the next
visit - all the pix I took this time were of destruction/removal! - when
I'll document the new/repairs work.

L8R

Skip and Lydia, champing at the bit, now that refit has actually started!

Morgan 461 #2
SV Flying Pig
http://tinyurl.com/384p2

"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you
didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail
away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore.
Dream. Discover." - Mark Twain

Hi, Wayne, and Rhys,

"rhys" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 19 Oct 2004 12:07:45 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

Skip, I think there will be times when you'd like to have that
generator and at least one A/C unit. It can get very toasty below
decks on a hot day,


Can't comment on this as only power boats have A/C in Toronto G, but
a lot of the cruising narratives I've read advocate judicious use of
12 v Hella fans, hatches, the "windcatchers" over hatches and sleeping
in the cockpit over A/C and the inevitable trouble it seems to cause.

By way of contrast, a lot of the Espar-type heating systems and
drip-type diesel heaters work well, and are popular to extend the
sailing seasons here and with liveaboards...yes, we have plenty in
Toronto. G

Our experience to date has been that we've had to sleep under covers, and
sometimes blankets, in the tropics. Even if we had a genset, I doubt we'd
want to run it for A/C - and in our case, most certainly, as the reason it's
coming out is I don't want to make the investment to reduce the noise level
to our acceptability level (outside the boat it's very quiet - but inside,
we made the decision we'd only use it for emergency use).

and having the generator also gives you a lot of
flexibility for meeting your power needs with other things, or for a
quick recharge when you need it.

Agreed - but at the cost of a huge amount of space. We're going to populate
an up-to-8' (not yet designed so don't know for sure) wide arch top with all
the solar it will hold (600-750 watts) and a KISS generator. We'd expected
to buy two KISS, but the rep sez it's overkill for our cruising area (as may
be the solar, too!), and in the unlikely event that we're becalmed and
deluged for any significant period, there's still the auxiliary with its
high-output genset.

In the space opened up, we're thinking in terms of L16H or the equivalent,
providing between 800-1300AH. It will assist in alleviating the
characteristic port list (not much but noticeable) of M46x, and the
requisite box for them will make a great seating and work platform in the
engine room. Given our expected moderate use/load, we believe we'll be in
good shape.

There is a further option to carry a portable Honda or similar
generator in a deck box for the very few times when there is plenty of
cloud, dead air and no cord to the shore. Some folk even use them
camping to keep the beer cold in a Koolatron, although like A/C on
sailboats, others don't consider it "sporting".

The other benefit of a portable gas generator is that it shares a fuel
with the OB motor and that you can bring standard power tools to do
bigger jobs offshore without the inherent inefficiencies and worry of
going through a battery bank inverter.

A final note: Much of the cruising lifestyle involves barter and trade
in services. If you go to the REALLY small islands, many of them have
very limited electricity/fuel reserves. If you decide to spend an
afternoon doing light construction with power tools on an island in
return for food or labour, you will be very popular if you lug your
own generator onshore.

We've also considered this option, but I've not figured out how to store it
without taking up some more of the already precious deck space. However,
I'd not considered the potential for the barter use. This thread isn't
about the portable gensets, but I think I'll look into something which might
provide up to a KW, if it's available in a valise style carry, as I think I
recall some being. That could be a profitable addition to the boat toys if
it could be stowed in the pretty-capacious lazarette, and, in a terrible
pinch, could be connected, through our landside-shorepower 3-prong 15-to-30A
lockable adapter, to provide charging and inside AC (in the unlikely event
we'd need it - we're trying to minimize AC usage) beyond what the inverter
normally will cover.

It's an option more available to the larger sailboat owner, but Skip
has established that already.

Heh. The more I'm aboard and trying not to bump into someone else, I'm
wondering how large "larger" has to be :{))

L8R

Skip and Lydia

--
Morgan 461 #2
SV Flying Pig
http://tinyurl.com/384p2

"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you
didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail
away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore.
Dream. Discover." - Mark Twain

Skip Gundlach wrote in part:

So, we're in Salt Creek Marina, and the only casualties from all the
hurricanes was the awning and some small bimini tears. My shoulder

I've been in correspondence with folks there and at one time the
security wasn't so good, but it may be better now.

operation went well but there was an infection which set me back; I may need
another operation later, but we won't know until this round of therapy is
finished.

Good luck with the therapy. My husband had really good luck with his.

. However, I've learned, over my life, that all things
happen in their own time and pushing them rarely works to do more than
frustrate the pusher! I will, however, this week, list my home.

A wise man.

snip

I'm taking out the AC, and the stern ducting is already gone. I bet I
gained not less than a cubic yard of storage just with the piping. It made
the painting of the interior of the closets a great deal easier, I can tell
you for sure. The forward pipes are next, and I believe I have the stern
unit sold; the forward and the generator will go on consignment with the
yard guy I'm using.

I'm taking out the generator because it takes up so much bloody room, and
everything I read suggests that I should easily be able to get my solar and
wind power to keep up with a very large load (I don't yet have the foggiest

We haven't had AC, but neither have we been in the tropics in the
summer. We do have a couple of fans that run off 12V, and - at
anchor- the boat may swing with the breeze so you won't need much in
the way of AC.

However friends who were in SF and came around through Mexico and the
Caribbean were advised to install a reverse cycle AC so that they
could use it for heat. They were quite glad of the heat in some
places.

We don't have a heater in the boat either, and we usually just bundle
up and sometimes burn oil lamps for a bit more heat. But when it gets
below about 40 deg F, we'd like to be at the dock and plugged in.

As far as the genset goes - we don't have one of those either, but it
has been on our list to get. However the main reason we wanted it was
to be able to refill our scuba bottles without having to take them
ashore and pay to have them filled somewhere. We don't need it to
charge the batteries.

If your solar panels and wind generator do not do the job, I suppose
you can always run the engine a bit to recharge the batteries.

We have two banks of 4 golf cart batteries (instead of a house bank
and a starting bank), with 4 solar panels and a wind generator and we
have no problem of inadequate electrical supply. Bob switches between
the two banks by date (uneven days he uses #1 bank and even days he
uses #2 bank - splitting the difference if the month has 31 days -
that way he doesn't have to remember whether he's switched or not - he
can just look).

In addition to the anchor light, we run my computer, the TV, the
follow me antenna, and reading lights in the aft cabin (where we
sleep) and sometimes fans and radios (like SSB) in the evening or at
anchor. Underway we run the autopilot, radar and radios.

of clues about how much electrical budget I'll need, but if I can generate a
couple hundred amp hours a day, it shouldn't matter!). I'm also doing new
refrigeration, beginning with taking off the counter top and redoing the
insulation, also probably adding insulation *inside* the box, and redoing
the top to include two holes and stout insulation. I've not yet really done
enough research, but it looks like Glacier Bay DC and holding plates, with
"gray board" with foil on both sides, about 4" buildup on all sides (making
about an R60). That should still allow me a usable reefer/freezer
compartment which is bigger than my home box! and if I use small circulating
fans, the usage of the compressor ought to be fairly minimal. If I was
happier about the evaporators, I'd use that, as the load would be spread out
more evenly, but, as above about solar and wind.

We do not have a refrigeration system that runs off the batteries.
Ours is a dual system for 110 and engine driven. So we run the engine
twice a day for not more than 45 minutes to renew the coldness. All
the refrigeration experts say this will not work, and we do have to be
careful with it. The PO had to have it rebuild 3 times before he
discovered the secret to it.

We also have FAR too much space in the refer/freezer - I think it is
17 cubic feet. You don't need that much for two of you or even more
people than that especially if you use non-refrigerated storage
methods for those things that really don't need to be refrigerated.


grandma Rosalie

On Fri, 22 Oct 2004 12:48:35 -0400, "Skip Gundlach" skip sez make
this all one word with my last name next to my first gundlach@adelphia
dot fish catcher net (sorry bout the spamtrap!) wrote:

Heh. The more I'm aboard and trying not to bump into someone else, I'm
wondering how large "larger" has to be :{))

========================================

There are times when my wife and I have concluded that there may not
be a boat big enough for the two of us. :-)

That's one of the times that a flybridge comes in handy.

Hi, Bryan, and group,

"Bryan" wrote in message
...
If you are going to have GB Fridge you might want to re-consider keeping
the generator.

Speeking form experience.


Please expand on your Glacier Bay comments. I've seen many correspondences
which have said that reefers run quite happily on solar alone when someone
forgets to disconnect the panels and the reefer while away, and some folks
who have done considerable research (with nothing to sell) have told me that
GB, while taking momentary large loads, is quite manageable if you have the
battery capacity (which I believe we should, with 800-1300AH).

Thanks.

L8R

Skip and Lydia

--
Morgan 461 #2
SV Flying Pig
http://tinyurl.com/384p2

"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you
didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail
away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore.
Dream. Discover." - Mark Twain

On Fri, 22 Oct 2004 12:48:35 -0400, "Skip Gundlach" skip sez make
this all one word with my last name next to my first gundlach@adelphia
dot fish catcher net (sorry bout the spamtrap!) wrote:


Our experience to date has been that we've had to sleep under covers, and
sometimes blankets, in the tropics. Even if we had a genset, I doubt we'd
want to run it for A/C - and in our case, most certainly, as the reason it's
coming out is I don't want to make the investment to reduce the noise level
to our acceptability level (outside the boat it's very quiet - but inside,
we made the decision we'd only use it for emergency use).

Good point. Putting on a sweater and an extra blanket is MUCH quieter.

However,
I'd not considered the potential for the barter use.


Well, I haven't gone yet, but I just finished a good book called

Searching for Paradise : A Grand Tour of the World's Unspoiled Islands
by THURSTON CLARKE

which covered off the reality of island living all over the world, but
obviously a lot of the book is spent in the Pacific and the Caribbean.
It was very interesting, and I recommend it to aspiring cruisers.

Anyway, that book and many of the more "off the beaten track"
cruising narratives I've read reinforce the idea that some little
islands still lack very basic services and are quite grateful for the
help we affluent Westerners (and even a boat bum in a beat-up Wetsnail
is affluent by their standards) tend to have lurking in the lazarette.

This thread isn't
about the portable gensets, but I think I'll look into something which might
provide up to a KW, if it's available in a valise style carry, as I think I
recall some being. That could be a profitable addition to the boat toys if
it could be stowed in the pretty-capacious lazarette, and, in a terrible
pinch, could be connected, through our landside-shorepower 3-prong 15-to-30A
lockable adapter, to provide charging and inside AC (in the unlikely event
we'd need it - we're trying to minimize AC usage) beyond what the inverter
normally will cover.

I think that's a good "belt and suspenders" approach, and it's quite
possible you will use this "luggable genset" more than you think,
because power tools in particular provide plenty of beef on board, but
draw 5-10 amps usually.

If you have a Sailrite-type sewing machine, for instance, and that
little genset, you could do a huge business in barter and good will
just repairing Dacron cast-offs in Polynesia.

I've heard that if you can rebuild two-strokes, that good for a few
pig roasts. G

Anyway, while long-term cruisers frequently consider how to extend the
kitty from providing services for other, richer boaters, it's possible
to barter a lot of goods and services from the locals who can't afford
to patronize West Marine G

R.