Boat shopping here in the Middle East has proven to be a pleasant
diversion. Beats getting shot at, anyway.

As much as I look and research online, there are a lot of boats that
are interesting. The venerable Tayana 37 is nice, the Shannons are
good choices, and the Caliber 38 is a pretty good buy. And of course
there are more, loads more. I have decided to stick with something
under 40 feet; everything just gets too complicated in larger boats.
And in that category, I keep returning to one boat- the Crealock 37.

They are pricey. Real pricey. A mid-80's model is all I am going to
be able to buy and still have cash in reserve for the inevitable
"stuff that has to be dealt with." The boat is a beautiful craft, and
while she is not nearly as roomy as, say, the T-37, she's plenty big
for one or two people. I have never had the pleasure of sailing on
one, but I understand they are very nicely balanced, easy to
singlehand (as singlehanding goes), and they are not terrors around
the docks. That the boats are well-made and respected is a plus; if I
ever decide to sell I should get a good portion of the purchase price
back.

But the things are awfully expensive.

Wendy

On 21 Sep 2004 23:06:14 -0700, (wendy) wrote:

That the boats are well-made and respected is a plus; if I
ever decide to sell I should get a good portion of the purchase price
back.

But the things are awfully expensive.

A couple of points: You are learning, which is great. You are
distinguishing for yourself what you want and are learning that good
boats cost more money G.

You should, however, try to SAIL (and sail hard) a Crealock 37. What's
"right" about them as a set of figures and layout is meaningless
unless you attempt the activity for which they were designed: sailing.
Otherwise, you might as well put a tarp on a stick on top of a
houseboat on pontoons: I guarantee you can get nicer furniture in a
houseboat than a Crealock 37.

Search for a Crealock 37 owners' group and read posts. Get used to the
pluses and minuses...there are always both; it's just a matter of what
you can personally forgive or discount or value above all else.

After absorbing wisdom on all things Crealock, start asking questions.
Make it known you're in the market...all sailors swallow the anchor
eventually and you may find a Crealock owner who will "favour" you
because you are so obviously set on having one. Not necessarily cut
you a deal, note, but even let you into the rather small club of
Crealock 37 owners who might never talk to a broker but simply sell
inside "the circle". A lot of C&Cs go this way, and they are another
line that commands an otherwise inexplicable premium (think Westsail
32s?)...except that C&C owners know exactly how nice they sail, and
know to the penny their worth.

Finally, adopt Skip G.'s research methods of "hunting" down your
future home. Use the Internet extensively...as well as the
telephone...to locate potential sale prospects. Carry around business
cards...if you see one in a yard or club, place a card in the cockpit
with a note on the back politely asking if a sale in the future is
cotemplated....

That last bit of advice might sound nuts, but it's how a friend of
mine scored a great deal on a 35 footer exactly this way. His query
started an older couple (first and only owners) thinking about how
little sailing they now were doing, and he picked up the boat "as is"
for about 30% less than market value, and yet like a lot of boats
owned by meticulous people, it was clean, extensively upgraded and
simply needed a quick power-wash and a light dusting...1995 sails used
twenty times in nine years are still essentially new, and my friend
scored there too, along with a low-hours diesel in great shape.

So "expensive" is quite relative when you finally figure out what you
want, isn't it?

R.

wendy wrote:
Boat shopping here in the Middle East has proven to be a pleasant
diversion. Beats getting shot at, anyway.

So does almost anything... at least that's what I hear!


As much as I look and research online, there are a lot of boats that
are interesting. The venerable Tayana 37 is nice, the Shannons are
good choices, and the Caliber 38 is a pretty good buy.

The Caliber is a very different boat than the Tayana. It's a fin keeler,
flatter hull. They are built with bigger tanks and other provisions
for long term cruising but I've heard a number of owners reporting
problems.... but then no boat is perfect. FWIW I have sailed a Caliber
35 and found it sails better than the numbers suggest it should. I like
the handling of such a boat much better than a full keeler, but that's
an issue of personal taste.

The Shannon and Gozzard boats are similar, full keelers, and usually
rather pricey.


... And of course
there are more, loads more. I have decided to stick with something
under 40 feet; everything just gets too complicated in larger boats.
And in that category, I keep returning to one boat- the Crealock 37.

They are pricey. Real pricey. A mid-80's model is all I am going to
be able to buy and still have cash in reserve for the inevitable
"stuff that has to be dealt with." The boat is a beautiful craft, and
while she is not nearly as roomy as, say, the T-37, she's plenty big
for one or two people.

That difference in roominess reflects the design and also to a large
extent the structure of the boat. It's relatively narrow and well
bulkheaded.

... I have never had the pleasure of sailing on
one, but I understand they are very nicely balanced, easy to
singlehand (as singlehanding goes), and they are not terrors around
the docks.

I've sailed the 31. It's one of the nicer sailing of the heavyweights.

... That the boats are well-made and respected is a plus; if I
ever decide to sell I should get a good portion of the purchase price
back.

But the things are awfully expensive.

Well, assuming that the current generation doesn't completely destroy
the environment, rendering it impossible to sail the oceans; and the
younger generation doesn't turn it's back on vigorous out doors
pursuits; then yes you should be able to recoup a good price for the
boat. And that makes a difference in the overall expense of having her.
But you'll find that keeping & outfitting & maintaining a boat can still
be expensive. IMHO an long term average of ~8% of it's value per year is
a good figure... much more, if you have to hire others to work on her.

Why have you zeroed in on the Crealock 37?

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

DSK wrote in message ...
Why have you zeroed in on the Crealock 37?

Why the Crealock… That's a good question, but my answer might be a
bit nebulous. However, I will attempt to answer.

Aesthetically, the boat is stunning in appearance. I know that
sounds, on the surface, a bit of a silly reason to settle on a boat,
and if it was the sole reason for purchasing a particular model, I
concede that it would indeed be silly. It is so easy to get caught up
in the nuts and bolts of boats- all the technical specifications and
ratios, the carbon-this and the vinylester-that, and there is no doubt
that these things are of great importance. Only a fool would give
them cursory attention. I am sure there are boat owners for whom
these details are the very aspect of boat ownership from which they
draw the most satisfaction, and there is nothing remotely wrong with
that. There is, for me, an indefinable aesthetic to sailing that
cannot be spreadsheeted or calculated. The Crealock 37 embodies this
aesthetic- again, for me. This sounds like the ravings of an
incurable romantic I know, but if, at the end of the day, this
obsession with craft that ghost along on the wind isn't a romantic
one, then what is it?

The boat is just so well designed and manufactured that I KNOW I can't
go wrong with one (financial considerations notwithstanding ;-) I am
single, and the boat has plenty of room for me- plus she can be easily
singlehanded. PSC supports these boats regardless of year of
manufacture, and that's a big plus- particularly so as the
manufacturer is here in the US. I am a member of the PSC sailnet
mailing list and I've heard a lot of good things about support; Bill
Crealock himself lends advice on that list from time to time. While I
have not sailed one, I have read from many sources how well balanced
the boat is, and how well she fares in a seaway. I don't want to sit
on the dock, and this boat is made to go to sea.

But oh, are they expensive.

DSK wrote ...
Why have you zeroed in on the Crealock 37?


wendy wrote:
Why the Crealock… That's a good question, but my answer might be a
bit nebulous. However, I will attempt to answer.

Aesthetically, the boat is stunning in appearance. I know that
sounds, on the surface, a bit of a silly reason to settle on a boat,

No, it's a good reason. Mind you, it may lead to some compromises you
might grumble under your breath about... just like marrying a woman
because she is stunningly beautiful... but if you're happy overall, then
I would be the last person to criticise.


.... It is so easy to get caught up
in the nuts and bolts of boats- all the technical specifications and
ratios, the carbon-this and the vinylester-that, and there is no doubt
that these things are of great importance.

Agreed, but unenthusiastically. You can't simply say "All the technical
aspects and details are equally important." A boat designed with this
principle in mind would be a total failure.

All boats are a compromise. That's why none of them do *everything*
well. Choosing the 'right' boat is simply picking your top two or three
priorities, finding a boat that fulfills them, and won't make you
miserable over the 9,999 other things on the list.


The boat is just so well designed and manufactured

Hmmm... I don't want to start a flame war, but I find the Pacific
Seacrafts... especially the post-buyout ones... uninspiring in build
quality. The older ones are solid... and functional. OTOH, stacked up
next to say a Morris or an Oyster... well...

One very good thing about the PSC Crealocks is that the rig & deck
layout is very good, very practical. Considered as a machine, it works
well. And a wise man once said, "Utility is beauty."

It sounds to me like you have looked at the practical side of things and
have some pretty good answers.

.... I don't want to sit
on the dock, and this boat is made to go to sea.

There you have it.


But oh, are they expensive.

So steal one.... wait, just kidding... but patience is also a virtue.

Peace!
Doug King

On 22 Sep 2004 23:09:56 -0700, (wendy) wrote:

This sounds like the ravings of an
incurable romantic I know, but if, at the end of the day, this
obsession with craft that ghost along on the wind isn't a romantic
one, then what is it?

Not really. I love the Shearwater 45's lines, but there are better
boats. If I'm going to spend $400,000, that is. Why, I could buy a
Saga 43 or 48...probably an excellent sailing machine, but if I wanted
a shuttlecraft I would've joined Starfleet, right? G

At the end of the day, you've got to love the boat you are going to
live aboard. That means (to a point), the "look" has to appeal on some
level. There are a LOT of "pretty" boats out there today, but not so
many that will increase your odds of living out a bad blow. If all
else is equal, why not go for the prettier boat?

Now, if J-Boats did proper cruisers...aaahh...that would be great!

R.

wendy wrote:
This sounds like the ravings of an
incurable romantic I know, but if, at the end of the day, this
obsession with craft that ghost along on the wind isn't a romantic
one, then what is it?


rhys wrote:
Not really. I love the Shearwater 45's lines, but there are better
boats. If I'm going to spend $400,000, that is.

Exactly.

.... Why, I could buy a
Saga 43 or 48...probably an excellent sailing machine, but if I wanted
a shuttlecraft I would've joined Starfleet, right? G

For the money, I'm not tempted by one of those. You could get an Able or
Morris or Baltic or Swan etc etc.


At the end of the day, you've got to love the boat you are going to
live aboard. That means (to a point), the "look" has to appeal on some
level. There are a LOT of "pretty" boats out there today, but not so
many that will increase your odds of living out a bad blow. If all
else is equal, why not go for the prettier boat?

Now, if J-Boats did proper cruisers...aaahh...that would be great!

What's wrong with the J-32, the J-35C, the J-37, or (since you're
talking about spending the money) the J-42? To my eye, they're not
"beautiful" but they are certainly good looking and good sailing boats;
plenty habitable enough (and also seaworthy by all accounts) to be a
"proper cruiser."

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

On Tue, 28 Sep 2004 10:04:03 -0400, DSK wrote:

What's wrong with the J-32, the J-35C, the J-37, or (since you're
talking about spending the money) the J-42? To my eye, they're not
"beautiful" but they are certainly good looking and good sailing boats;
plenty habitable enough (and also seaworthy by all accounts) to be a
"proper cruiser."

===================================

For offshore cruising, I'd pick the J-44. It's fast, roomy and solid,
not bad looking either to my eye. Perhaps a bit "drafty" for some
venues however.

On Tue, 28 Sep 2004 10:04:03 -0400, DSK wrote:

What's wrong with the J-32, the J-35C, the J-37, or (since you're
talking about spending the money) the J-42? To my eye, they're not
"beautiful" but they are certainly good looking and good sailing boats;
plenty habitable enough (and also seaworthy by all accounts) to be a
"proper cruiser."

Yes, yes, and yes...but I am enough of a belt and suspenders
traditionalist to wish there was some sort of steel cutter- ketch with
a skeg rudder that had some of the other attributes--like fine
build--I see in the J-boats.

I attend the boat shows, and I am very attracted to J-Boats because
they hit most of my personal quality benchmarks regarding systems
layout, handholds, backing plates, access to wiring and engine and so
on. But they can't carry a lot of tankage and they are skewed a little
too slightly to the "performance" side of cruiser.

Which makes them great to sail...I've been on J-24s and J-29s in big
air, and it's a hell of a sleigh ride, but I think I would have to
look at (in a "money is no object" world) the J-160 to get into a
comfort zone for world cruising that I could find in a smaller,
heavier and no doubt pokier...but more appropriate for liveaboards
with a kid...cruiser.

They are very nice boats. So are Swans and Morrises, but those are too
deluxe for my taste. I actually LIKE the idea of the racing J-boats,
where you can power wash the all-plastic interior and then pump it out
and run a heat fan to dry it out. Ah, simplicity! Most cruisers look
like '70s rec rooms below...wood is lovely but is heavy and more work.

R.