How to convert to external regulator???
 

Can anyone give me info, or a site to get info for converting a Delco
alternator from internal voltage regulator to an external regulator?
I have been using a slightlly modified Delco 108 amp alt. for 6 years, with
homebrewed manual charge controllers, and am thinking of trying one of the new
smart regulators.
Any help would be appreciated, Thanks

There is a book called "The 12 Volt Doctor's Alternator Book" by
Edgar J. Beyn. It details many types of alternators and perhaps your
unit is in there. Seems like a pretty straightforward to remove an
internal regulator. It sounds like from your description, the alternator
you have does not have an internal regulator. In that case you only
need to be able to connect to the field terminal to use most
any smart regulators.

Doug
s/v Callista


"Ilv2sl" wrote in message
...
Can anyone give me info, or a site to get info for converting a Delco
alternator from internal voltage regulator to an external regulator?
I have been using a slightlly modified Delco 108 amp alt. for 6 years,
with
homebrewed manual charge controllers, and am thinking of trying one of the
new
smart regulators.
Any help would be appreciated, Thanks

The 108 amp Delco alternator I have does have an internal regulator. I can't
remember if the 12 Volt Doctor's Alternator Book talks about this conversion.
Ed Beyn is the man for 12 volt info.
I made my first manual controller, back around 1990, after talking to him at
his shop in Annapolis, and following his instructions. A wire and a lightbulb
were all that was needed!
I'll hunt down a copy of his book.


There is a book called "The 12 Volt Doctor's Alternator Book" by
Edgar J. Beyn. It details many types of alternators and perhaps your
unit is in there. Seems like a pretty straightforward to remove an
internal regulator. It sounds like from your description, the alternator
you have does not have an internal regulator. In that case you only
need to be able to connect to the field terminal to use most
any smart regulators.

Doug
s/v Callista

"Ilv2sl" wrote in message
...
The 108 amp Delco alternator I have does have an internal regulator. I
can't
remember if the 12 Volt Doctor's Alternator Book talks about this
conversion.
Ed Beyn is the man for 12 volt info.
I made my first manual controller, back around 1990, after talking to him
at
his shop in Annapolis, and following his instructions. A wire and a
lightbulb
were all that was needed!
I'll hunt down a copy of his book.


There is a book called "The 12 Volt Doctor's Alternator Book" by
Edgar J. Beyn. It details many types of alternators and perhaps your
unit is in there. Seems like a pretty straightforward to remove an
internal regulator. It sounds like from your description, the alternator
you have does not have an internal regulator. In that case you only
need to be able to connect to the field terminal to use most
any smart regulators.

Doug
s/v Callista



Following on from the above
A useful site for the mechanically minded, see links.
http://www.motoren.ath.cx/
Grahame
A65 Joann

Doug Dotson wrote:

There is a book called "The 12 Volt Doctor's Alternator Book" by
Edgar J. Beyn. It details many types of alternators and perhaps your
unit is in there. Seems like a pretty straightforward to remove an
internal regulator. It sounds like from your description, the alternator
you have does not have an internal regulator. In that case you only
need to be able to connect to the field terminal to use most
any smart regulators.

Doug
s/v Callista

I have a scanned copy of The 12 volt Doctor's Alternator Book at
http://hood.hctc.com/~esteve/private/books/Beyn-12%20Volt%20Doc's%20Alternator%20Handbook.pdf

..

BTW, I'm running Delco 100 amp alternator with the internal regulator
still wired in parrallel with my (Plath/Beyn) AutoMac II (semi)smart
charge controller. It's just connected to the field brush terminal of
the regulator. This is the way that Beyn recommended in the installation
instructions. Works great on my ~800 AH battery bank. If the alternator
runs to hot, the charge current will be reduced or if necassary it will
drop the charge back to the internal regulator.

Steve
s/v Good Intentions

"Steve" wrote in message
...

... charge controller. It's just connected to the field brush terminal of
the regulator.

Alternators don't have brushes :)

On Sun, 26 Sep 2004 19:20:23 -0400, "Doug Dotson"
wrote:


"Steve" wrote in message
...

... charge controller. It's just connected to the field brush terminal of
the regulator.

Alternators don't have brushes :)


Mine does - but they run on slip rings rather than on a commutator, so
they experience less wear.

The brushes and slip rings carry current to the field winding which is
mounted on the shaft.



--
Peter Bennett, VE7CEI
peterbb4 (at) interchange.ubc.ca
new newsgroup users info : http://vancouver-webpages.com/nnq
GPS and NMEA info: http://vancouver-webpages.com/peter
Vancouver Power Squadron: http://vancouver.powersquadron.ca

On Sun, 26 Sep 2004 19:20:23 -0400, "Doug Dotson"
wrote:


"Steve" wrote in message
...

... charge controller. It's just connected to the field brush terminal of
the regulator.

Alternators don't have brushes :)

Unfortunately you are wrong.

Nearly all A.C. generators, i.e. alternators, use brushes to transmit
exciting current to the rotor. The A.C. output is taken from the
stator. In the case of an automotive "alternator" the stator output is
then rectified by diodes mounted in the end plate.

The exception would be in something like a wind generator where the
rotor is a permanent magnet to avoid the cost of excition current.

On Sun, 26 Sep 2004 19:20:23 -0400, "Doug Dotson"
wrote:


"Steve" wrote in message
...

... charge controller. It's just connected to the field brush terminal of
the regulator.

Alternators don't have brushes :)


Try a google search on "alternator brush" and get back to me

Brian W

Oops! My mistake. I was remembering an alternator that I disected
a few years ago that didn't have any field brushes. Taking a quick peek
at the book, I see that many alternators do have brushes for the
field winding. Sorry about that. Hey, I said that alternators DON'T have
brushes BEFORE I said that they DO have brushes. Guess I pulled
a Kerry :)

Doug
s/v Callista

"Doug Dotson" wrote in message
...

"Steve" wrote in message
...

... charge controller. It's just connected to the field brush terminal of
the regulator.

Alternators don't have brushes :)

Some alternators have a stationary field coil excited by
residual magnetism. The one I disected must have been one
of those.

Doug
s/v Callista

"Gene Kearns" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 26 Sep 2004 19:20:23 -0400, "Doug Dotson"
wrote:


"Steve" wrote in message
...

... charge controller. It's just connected to the field brush terminal of
the regulator.

Alternators don't have brushes :)


You might be right!...... but then, how does the current get from the
rotor to the outside of the alternator??? Hmmmmm?

--



Grady-White Gulfstream, out of Southport, NC.

http://myworkshop.idleplay.net/cavern/
Homepage
http://www.southharbourvillageinn.com/directions.asp Where
Southport,NC is located.
http://www.thebayguide.com/rec.boats
Rec.boats at Lee Yeaton's Bayguide

Isn't scanning a copyrighted book and posting it on the net
a bad thing?

Doug
s/v Callista

"Steve" wrote in message
...
Doug Dotson wrote:

There is a book called "The 12 Volt Doctor's Alternator Book" by
Edgar J. Beyn. It details many types of alternators and perhaps your
unit is in there. Seems like a pretty straightforward to remove an
internal regulator. It sounds like from your description, the alternator
you have does not have an internal regulator. In that case you only
need to be able to connect to the field terminal to use most
any smart regulators.

Doug
s/v Callista

I have a scanned copy of The 12 volt Doctor's Alternator Book at
http://hood.hctc.com/~esteve/private/books/Beyn-12%20Volt%20Doc's%20Alternator%20Handbook.pdf
.

BTW, I'm running Delco 100 amp alternator with the internal regulator
still wired in parrallel with my (Plath/Beyn) AutoMac II (semi)smart
charge controller. It's just connected to the field brush terminal of the
regulator. This is the way that Beyn recommended in the installation
instructions. Works great on my ~800 AH battery bank. If the alternator
runs to hot, the charge current will be reduced or if necassary it will
drop the charge back to the internal regulator.

Steve
s/v Good Intentions

On Sun, 26 Sep 2004 21:24:10 -0400, something compelled Gene
Kearns , to say:

On Sun, 26 Sep 2004 19:20:23 -0400, "Doug Dotson"
wrote:


"Steve" wrote in message
...

... charge controller. It's just connected to the field brush terminal of
the regulator.

Alternators don't have brushes :)


You might be right!...... but then, how does the current get from the
rotor to the outside of the alternator??? Hmmmmm?

I guess you could spin a permanent magnet inside of a coil, and
rectify the output.

That's called a permanent magnet alternator. My KISS
wind generator uses this technique.

Doug
s/v Callista

"Steve Daniels" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 26 Sep 2004 21:24:10 -0400, something compelled Gene
Kearns , to say:

On Sun, 26 Sep 2004 19:20:23 -0400, "Doug Dotson"
wrote:


"Steve" wrote in message
...

... charge controller. It's just connected to the field brush terminal
of
the regulator.

Alternators don't have brushes :)


You might be right!...... but then, how does the current get from the
rotor to the outside of the alternator??? Hmmmmm?

I guess you could spin a permanent magnet inside of a coil, and
rectify the output.

"Gene Kearns" wrote in message
...

Alternators don't have brushes :)


You might be right!...... but then, how does the current get from the
rotor to the outside of the alternator??? Hmmmmm?

--

I have seen one alternator that was brushless. It was a large heavy duty
Delco unit. The field windings were attached to the end frame of the
alternator, and the rotor was open on the end. It had a shaft that went
through the fields, and the poles over the field. The rotor had opposing
poles same as any rotor, but with the one end open the poles were attached
in the middle with a plastic ring.
Kinda hard to describe!
Greg

90% of the alternators in use have brushes. You pay a LOT extra for a
brushless alternator. Electrodyne, Niehoff, Denso and Delco all make
brushless alternators but you pay a premium for them. I lucked up on a 250
amp brushless Niehoff and a normal Leece-Neville as spare.

In a brushless the stator and the field coil are both mounted in the case.
The rotor is just a piece of iron with a finger pattern. The field coil
induces a magnetic field in the rotor which generates AC current in the
Stator coil.

"Doug Dotson" wrote in message
...
Some alternators have a stationary field coil excited by
residual magnetism. The one I disected must have been one
of those.

Doug
s/v Callista

"Gene Kearns" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 26 Sep 2004 19:20:23 -0400, "Doug Dotson"
wrote:


"Steve" wrote in message
...

... charge controller. It's just connected to the field brush terminal
of
the regulator.

Alternators don't have brushes :)


You might be right!...... but then, how does the current get from the
rotor to the outside of the alternator??? Hmmmmm?

--



Grady-White Gulfstream, out of Southport, NC.

http://myworkshop.idleplay.net/cavern/
Homepage
http://www.southharbourvillageinn.com/directions.asp Where
Southport,NC is located.
http://www.thebayguide.com/rec.boats
Rec.boats at Lee Yeaton's Bayguide

I believe the one I took apart was a Delco. It was given to me
by an alternator shop just for that purpose. It had been discarded
as unrepairable.

Doug
s/v Callista

"Glenn Ashmore" wrote in message
news:JzT5d.35578$aW5.14434@fed1read07...
90% of the alternators in use have brushes. You pay a LOT extra for a
brushless alternator. Electrodyne, Niehoff, Denso and Delco all make
brushless alternators but you pay a premium for them. I lucked up on a
250
amp brushless Niehoff and a normal Leece-Neville as spare.

In a brushless the stator and the field coil are both mounted in the case.
The rotor is just a piece of iron with a finger pattern. The field coil
induces a magnetic field in the rotor which generates AC current in the
Stator coil.

"Doug Dotson" wrote in message
...
Some alternators have a stationary field coil excited by
residual magnetism. The one I disected must have been one
of those.

Doug
s/v Callista

"Gene Kearns" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 26 Sep 2004 19:20:23 -0400, "Doug Dotson"
wrote:


"Steve" wrote in message
...

... charge controller. It's just connected to the field brush terminal
of
the regulator.

Alternators don't have brushes :)


You might be right!...... but then, how does the current get from the
rotor to the outside of the alternator??? Hmmmmm?

--



Grady-White Gulfstream, out of Southport, NC.

http://myworkshop.idleplay.net/cavern/
Homepage
http://www.southharbourvillageinn.com/directions.asp Where
Southport,NC is located.
http://www.thebayguide.com/rec.boats
Rec.boats at Lee Yeaton's Bayguide

That is the kind I disected too. :-) Very popular on heavy earth moving
equipment for some reason.


"Doug Dotson" wrote in message
...
I believe the one I took apart was a Delco. It was given to me
by an alternator shop just for that purpose. It had been discarded
as unrepairable.

I tried some heavy earth moving once. Fortunately, TowBoatUS
bailed me out :)

Doug
s/v Callista

"Glenn Ashmore" wrote in message
news:RHV5d.202$cN6.170@lakeread02...
That is the kind I disected too. :-) Very popular on heavy earth moving
equipment for some reason.


"Doug Dotson" wrote in message
...
I believe the one I took apart was a Delco. It was given to me
by an alternator shop just for that purpose. It had been discarded
as unrepairable.

Alternators don't have brushes :)

LOL!

oh yes they do. tht is unless you run something like a 20,25,30,32,29,35 SI
Delco or a Niehoff, or Electrodyne, and a couple other oddball makes

Some alternators have a stationary field coil excited by
residual magnetism. The one I disected must have been one
of those.

Doug

The rotor is a revolving field with the "cage" or claw producing north and
south magnetic fields. the "Stator" is short for "Stationary armature" and
unlike a DC generator, the field rotates inside the armature instead of the
other way around.
"Alternator" is actually a homade term for "Alternating current generator"
unless there's a make that has slipped by me, all automotive alternators are
actually 3 phase. with diodes cutting out the alternating waves to make a
directional current.

That is the kind I disected too. :-) Very popular on heavy earth moving
equipment for some reason.


the reason is because carbon brushs are prone to damage to from vibration. not
counting getting stuck in their holders by dirt and muddy water. internally,
your typical brushless alternators are also machined better and are more costly
to produce. like everything else in todays economy, the Chinese are pouring it
on the OEM manufacturers and driving prices way down. that is unless you are
talking atou the Niehoffs and Electrodynes. and they are actually small
companies , that is compared to Delco Remy and Prestolite.
and they also manufacture specialty products . so you wont find any price
reductions with those two brands. in fact that 250A12V niehoff is about a
$3000. unit! Leece-neville and powerline have a 200 amp brush alternator that
can be had for less than $700.00 though

That's called a permanent magnet alternator. My KISS
wind generator uses this technique.

Doug, I've experimented with stuff like that , and you can actually take a
typical 12v heatermotor from a late model chevy etc. mount a prop on it and get
power out of it.
not alot, and not effeciently...but interestingly notable

The rotor had opposing
poles same as any rotor, but with the one end open the poles were attached
in the middle with a plastic ring.
Kinda hard to describe!
Greg

you're almost right Greg, that "plastic ring" on the DELCO SI brushless ia
actually a mylar coated aluminum ring that wont disturb the field current in
the poles, but yet cuts dapers the harmonic vibration of the poles so they
don't stress crack , and fly apart. LOL!, I've seen that happen, though..it's
rare, but when it does happen...theres hardly a good bolt left in the unit.

I believe I already clarified my statement a couple of weeks ago.
The unit I dissected way back was a Delco that did not have
brushes. I incorrectly extrapolated that experience. Pay attention.

Doug
s/v Callista

"BSCHNAUTZ" wrote in message
...
Alternators don't have brushes :)

LOL!

oh yes they do. tht is unless you run something like a 20,25,30,32,29,35
SI
Delco or a Niehoff, or Electrodyne, and a couple other oddball makes

Why do I care about this? How does it relate to the OP's question or
anything I said? I have a couple of PM tape drive motors that put out
quite a bit of power. Very populat among the homebrew wind generator
crowd.

Doug
s/v Callista


"BSCHNAUTZ" wrote in message
...

That's called a permanent magnet alternator. My KISS
wind generator uses this technique.

Doug, I've experimented with stuff like that , and you can actually take a
typical 12v heatermotor from a late model chevy etc. mount a prop on it
and get
power out of it.
not alot, and not effeciently...but interestingly notable

Why do I care about this? How does it relate to the OP's question or
anything I said?

beats me..

Only you can answer those questions

I incorrectly extrapolated that experience. Pay attention.

hard to do from an AOL newsgroup