Hello,

I am retiring from the Air Force in 5 months and am looking for a new life.
I haven't traveled near as much as I would have liked in the Air Force and
am looking forward to traveling/exploring until age/health concerns dictate
otherwise. Buying a house and settling down just doesn't sound appealing.

I have considered RVs for traveling throughout the US, Canada, and Alaska. I
also have a two seater Cessna airplane that I use to explore. I really
loving flying, but what I really like about it is the traveling/exploring.
After considering sailing, it seems better than buying a house, RVing, or
flying. I know everything has it positives and negatives.

Of course, I don't have any experience with boating/sailing (except for
being on a few small boats on lakes), and would like to ask a few questions.

1) If the boat is paid for, what is the cost range to cruise full time?
What would the life style be like at the lower end of the annual income
range? To be honest, my retirement income will be $42,000.00 a year. Is
this way to little, adequate, or not nearly enough?

2) I have noticed that not all sailboats are considered suitable for blue
water sailing (for one reason or another). Does that same thing apply to
catamarans? If so, what are some suitable boats for blue water sailing?

3) My wife hates the water, sand, and hot weather. Is there any chance
that she will end up liking cruising? Any of you with spouses/significant
others that thought they would hate it, but ended up loving it after they
gave it a try?

I have a thousand more questions, but these are good to start with.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Todd

On Monday 13 September 2004 11:05 pm in rec.boats.cruising Todd wrote:

1) If the boat is paid for, what is the cost range to cruise full time?
What would the life style be like at the lower end of the annual income
range? To be honest, my retirement income will be $42,000.00 a year. Is
this way to little, adequate, or not nearly enough?

It depends on the lifestyle that you want.
Food and fuel will depend on your choices.
Repairs will always be needed, so you need a contingency
fund to cover the unexpected.
Insurance will depend on your choice of boat and where
you want to go, as well as your experience.
Marinas can be *very* expensive, especially in the more
favoured areas. Are you happy to spend most of your time
moored out in a bay rather than in port with all of the
facilities ?.

2) I have noticed that not all sailboats are considered suitable for blue
water sailing (for one reason or another). Does that same thing apply to
catamarans? If so, what are some suitable boats for blue water sailing?

Ocean going cats are more stable than monohulls, but you
get less space for your money because the accomodation is
crammed into 2 narrow hulls. Marinas will hit you with
heavy surcharges.
If you are buying a new boat take a look at the new
motor sailer at http://www.nordhavn.com/ this one
really impresses me, it is truly a global cruiser in
a small package.

3) My wife hates the water, sand, and hot weather. Is there any chance
that she will end up liking cruising? Any of you with spouses/significant
others that thought they would hate it, but ended up loving it after they
gave it a try?

Book a charter holiday with training before spending any
money on a boat. There are plenty of choices in the
caribean and the mediteranean. Get her involved and
see how she feels. Maybe cooler locations or air conditioning
would make her feel better.


--
My real address is crn (at) netunix (dot) com
WARNING all messages containing attachments or html will be silently
deleted. Send only plain text.

Original left for reference below...

Todd, I'm sure there will be hordes following, or even simultaneous to, me
in commentary, but I'm not optimistic about your chances.

Your wife's not likely to want to do what you are if you're on a boat, from
what you've said. The rest of the stuff, while it might take a great deal
of work to get to the point of actually being able to cast off safely, can
be done, and on your income, you have a wide range of possibility for ample
funds, depending on your chosen lifestyle and the size of the vessel.

The catamaran vs monohull debate rages here from time to time, but I'd make
an observation on current events to the effect that there's an awful lot of
upside-down and sunk catamarans and trimarans in Granada right now. While
there's also many monohulls sunk or damaged, so far as I was able to see,
they're all basically upright or leaning against the shore, not upside down.

My advice would be to take a captained charter with you and your wife. If
she doesn't "get it" when everything's being done for her, in likely the
safest conditions you could find, it's not likely to get better with more of
it.

OTOH, if you and she find you love it, you can move toward getting some
sailing time under your bottoms and do some bareboating (charter your own
boat for just the two of you) to see if it really will stick.

After that, if it does, you're off to the races. I can say, for our
purposes, that if we had 42k to work with each year, it would make our lives
a great deal easier - but we're going to do it, anyway!

L8R

Skip and Lydia


--
Morgan 461 #2
SV Flying Pig
http://tinyurl.com/384p2

"And then again, when you sit at the helm of your little ship on a
clear night, and gaze at the countless stars overhead, and realize
that you are quite alone on a great, wide sea, it is apt to occur to
you that in the general scheme of things you are merely an
insignificant speck on the surface of the ocean; and are not nearly
so important or as self-sufficient as you thought you were. Which is
an exceedingly wholesome thought, and one that may effect a
permanent change in your deportment that will be greatly appreciated
by your friends." - James S. Pitkin


"Todd" wrote in message
...
Hello,

I am retiring from the Air Force in 5 months and am looking for a new
life.
I haven't traveled near as much as I would have liked in the Air Force and
am looking forward to traveling/exploring until age/health concerns
dictate
otherwise. Buying a house and settling down just doesn't sound appealing.

I have considered RVs for traveling throughout the US, Canada, and Alaska.
I
also have a two seater Cessna airplane that I use to explore. I really
loving flying, but what I really like about it is the traveling/exploring.
After considering sailing, it seems better than buying a house, RVing, or
flying. I know everything has it positives and negatives.

Of course, I don't have any experience with boating/sailing (except for
being on a few small boats on lakes), and would like to ask a few
questions.

1) If the boat is paid for, what is the cost range to cruise full time?
What would the life style be like at the lower end of the annual income
range? To be honest, my retirement income will be $42,000.00 a year. Is
this way to little, adequate, or not nearly enough?

2) I have noticed that not all sailboats are considered suitable for blue
water sailing (for one reason or another). Does that same thing apply to
catamarans? If so, what are some suitable boats for blue water sailing?

3) My wife hates the water, sand, and hot weather. Is there any chance
that she will end up liking cruising? Any of you with spouses/significant
others that thought they would hate it, but ended up loving it after they
gave it a try?

I have a thousand more questions, but these are good to start with.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Todd

comments interspersed ...

"Todd" wrote in message
...
Hello,

I am retiring from the Air Force in 5 months and am looking for a new life.
I haven't traveled near as much as I would have liked in the Air Force and
am looking forward to traveling/exploring until age/health concerns dictate
otherwise. Buying a house and settling down just doesn't sound appealing.

I have considered RVs for traveling throughout the US, Canada, and Alaska. I
also have a two seater Cessna airplane that I use to explore. I really
loving flying, but what I really like about it is the traveling/exploring.
After considering sailing, it seems better than buying a house, RVing, or
flying. I know everything has it positives and negatives.

I've run into a number of retirerees that winter on a boat in Florida, and
summer on an RV.


Of course, I don't have any experience with boating/sailing (except for
being on a few small boats on lakes), and would like to ask a few questions.

1) If the boat is paid for, what is the cost range to cruise full time?
What would the life style be like at the lower end of the annual income
range? To be honest, my retirement income will be $42,000.00 a year. Is
this way to little, adequate, or not nearly enough?

It should be doable, though it won't be "lap of luxury." You'll find cruisers
that live on under $1000 a month, and others that blow through $10,000 a month
easily. If you get a slip at a marina on a nightly basis, it could be $60 to
$100 a night, so "marina hopping" can get you up to $30K a year pretty quick.
Or, if you live on an anchor, your fees go down to zero. You can do your own
mantainance or pay someone else $100 an hour. An expensive boat deserves
insurance, a few K a year, but many go without. And so on ...



2) I have noticed that not all sailboats are considered suitable for blue
water sailing (for one reason or another). Does that same thing apply to
catamarans? If so, what are some suitable boats for blue water sailing?

Why do you want "blue water sailing"? Most cruisers don't need, or have such a
boat. You can spend a lifetime cruising almost the entire Western Hemisphere
and never be more than 100 miles from shore. You should learn enough about
cruising to make an informed decision about your own needs. You may be one of
the few that loves to cross oceans, but most of us just want to hop to the next
island.

Catamarans offer a broad spectrum of designs, just like monohulls. There are
some that are more suited to coastal cruising, others are good long distance
passagemakers. My boat, a PDQ 36, is really a coastal cruiser, but several have
crossed the Atlantic and many of them have gone to Bermuda. I have done
neither, but I have traveled the entire East Coast several times.

You will find catamaran detractors, but the simple fact is that in the last 20
years or so there have only been a handful (under 5) cases of cruising cats
flipping while cruising, and almost no sinkings or fatalities. Their safety
record is considerably better than monohulls. The one problem you will have is
finding a good one under about $100K.



3) My wife hates the water, sand, and hot weather. Is there any chance
that she will end up liking cruising? Any of you with spouses/significant
others that thought they would hate it, but ended up loving it after they
gave it a try?

I waited to see how my wife liked the cruising life before proposing. Loving
hot weather and sand are not a prerequisite - I have long time liveaboard
friends that hate that. They summer in Maine, Nova Scotia, and Newfoundland,
and in the winter go no further south than South Carolina. This year they're
wintering in Newfoundland!

However, living on a boat is not easy, and living cheap can be a full time job.
You're really going to have to ease into this one!


I have a thousand more questions, but these are good to start with.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Ask away, but the bottom line will always be that you should learn how to sail
and cruise before making a major commitment.


Thanks,
Todd

On Mon, 13 Sep 2004 17:05:43 -0500, "Todd" wrote:

Hello,


3) My wife hates the water, sand, and hot weather. Is there any chance
that she will end up liking cruising? Any of you with spouses/significant
others that thought they would hate it, but ended up loving it after they
gave it a try?
Todd,
Cruising after the boat is paid for is relatively inexpensive, your
income would handle it very well. In fact you would be at the high
end of most cruisers. The average (guess) for a comfortable cruising
lifestyle (including boat upkeep) is about 15K a year. Many do it on
much less. However, you will have an uphill battle with your partner
hating it.. There are three solutions to this:
1. Don't go
2. Go alone
3. ................


Good luck. It's a shame, you sound as if you'd really like cruising.
Most people don't change, if you don't like it you won't grow to like
it. Nothing worse than being on a boat with one partner hating it.
Rick Itenson
Breathless
Toronto

a few points ...
"Chris Newport" wrote in message
news:1354160.I1mvThbil2@callisto...

Ocean going cats are more stable than monohulls, but you
get less space for your money because the accomodation is
crammed into 2 narrow hulls.

I've heard this said a few times, but haven't seen a boat that fits this
description, except maybe the Atlantic 42. Certainly one can say they prefer a
"low windage" design, but Prouts have made hundreds of passages without the
compromise you speak of. And, of course, the OP doesn't really want a "Blue
Water Passagemaker," in spite of what he says.


Marinas will hit you with
heavy surcharges.

In 5 years I've only once paid a "catamaran premium" - it was $5. I have had to
pay for an oversize slip a few times, but given that my 36 foot cat has the
space of a 45 foot monohull I'm usually ahead. The biggest problem can be a
"home port" since many marinas simply don't have a proper space. However, I've
always been able to find a face dock, and never paid a premium.

That said, whenever I feel envious of the larger cats (Manta 42, PDQ 44, etc.) I
remind myself that while I can always find a place for my 18 foot beam, if it
were 22 feet, it would be a lot harder.

If you are buying a new boat take a look at the new
motor sailer at http://www.nordhavn.com/ this one
really impresses me, it is truly a global cruiser in
a small package.

I didn't find any motorsailers there - do you mean the Masons?

On Tuesday 14 September 2004 12:50 am in rec.boats.cruising Jeff Morris
wrote:

a few points ...
"Chris Newport" wrote in message
news:1354160.I1mvThbil2@callisto...

If you are buying a new boat take a look at the new
motor sailer at http://www.nordhavn.com/ this one
really impresses me, it is truly a global cruiser in
a small package.

I didn't find any motorsailers there - do you mean the Masons?

Under Whats happening on the RHS of the main page - or here :-

http://www.nordhavn.com/newsroom/pre...motoryacht.htm

It seems to be a revival of the old Mason concept, but brought
up to date with some nice features such as the 3000 mile range
under power and the ability to use a VP prop to give power
assistance to the sails at low RPM in light winds.
In many ways you could call it a sail-assisted trawler, it just
depends on how you choose to operate.

The Nordhavn reputation for ocean going trawlers is a selling point,
I would feel comfortable taking a Nordhavn into the southern ocean
which is a lot more than can be said for many modern yachts.

--
My real address is crn (at) netunix (dot) com
WARNING all messages containing attachments or html will be silently
deleted. Send only plain text.

Chris, Jeff, Skip, Rick,

Thanks for your input! It has been very helpful.

I think I will make plans to charter a catamaran (with a captain) after I
retire and see what my wife thinks of it. She is usually pretty good about
tolerating my hobbies (my airplane engine blew up in flight last year, made
a dead stick landing, cost 14K to fix it), but I don't want her to be
unhappy. I'll just have to keep my fingers crossed!

As for "blue water" sailing, it is difficulty to know what I will be happy
with, since I don't have any experience. It may end up being island
hopping. Now, I would like to think that I will make it to the Med, Pacific
Islands, Australia, etc some day. But I will start with small steps. I do
the same with my airplane, taking small steps and gaining experience.

By the way, I am a physician assistant. Do you think my skills would be of
value to the sailing community? Not to make money, just to contribute
skills.

Thanks,
Todd


"Todd" wrote in message
...
Hello,

I am retiring from the Air Force in 5 months and am looking for a new
life.
I haven't traveled near as much as I would have liked in the Air Force and
am looking forward to traveling/exploring until age/health concerns
dictate
otherwise. Buying a house and settling down just doesn't sound appealing.

I have considered RVs for traveling throughout the US, Canada, and Alaska.
I
also have a two seater Cessna airplane that I use to explore. I really
loving flying, but what I really like about it is the traveling/exploring.
After considering sailing, it seems better than buying a house, RVing, or
flying. I know everything has it positives and negatives.

Of course, I don't have any experience with boating/sailing (except for
being on a few small boats on lakes), and would like to ask a few
questions.

1) If the boat is paid for, what is the cost range to cruise full time?
What would the life style be like at the lower end of the annual income
range? To be honest, my retirement income will be $42,000.00 a year. Is
this way to little, adequate, or not nearly enough?

2) I have noticed that not all sailboats are considered suitable for blue
water sailing (for one reason or another). Does that same thing apply to
catamarans? If so, what are some suitable boats for blue water sailing?

3) My wife hates the water, sand, and hot weather. Is there any chance
that she will end up liking cruising? Any of you with spouses/significant
others that thought they would hate it, but ended up loving it after they
gave it a try?

I have a thousand more questions, but these are good to start with.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Todd

In article , "Todd"
wrote:

I am retiring from the Air Force in 5 months and am looking for a new life.
I haven't traveled near as much as I would have liked in the Air Force and
am looking forward to traveling/exploring until age/health concerns dictate
otherwise. Buying a house and settling down just doesn't sound appealing.

I have considered RVs for traveling throughout the US, Canada, and Alaska. I
also have a two seater Cessna airplane that I use to explore. I really
loving flying, but what I really like about it is the traveling/exploring.
After considering sailing, it seems better than buying a house, RVing, or
flying. I know everything has it positives and negatives.


RVing and cruising can be relatively equivalent.

3) My wife hates the water, sand, and hot weather. Is there any chance
that she will end up liking cruising? Any of you with spouses/significant
others that thought they would hate it, but ended up loving it after they
gave it a try?

You don't have to sail where it's hot, but you *do* need water.

My wife is a non-swimmer and Air Force brat (and vet) who *must* have a
place to return to. She's committed to our doing a short (3 or so month)
tour of the Bahamas the next time I'm between jobs. Once we've done
that, we'll see. The most likely scenerio right now is our current boat
at our retirement home's dock, with us doing short (3-6 month)
excursions north or south, depending on the season.

The key has been to make sure it's fun FOR HER, whatever it takes. Took
about 5 seasons for my lady to get to this point and I almost "lost" her
on our first "long" trip (Day 5 of 2 weeks). Best decision I've ever
made--though done in anger at the time--was to turn around and idle back
home. The next year, we flew past that spot in 2 days and did the lower
Chesapeake. She wasn't ready for the ICW that trip, but we peeked in to
the top of it. The next year, we did 950 nm down and up the ICW quite
comfortably. Having found out that "that wasn't so bad", we could
stretch our legs a little further the next time. Now, the idea of
running down to Florida doesn't bother her at all. We do 60-80 days out
on the water each season -- our little boat is our summer home -- which
actually is more travelling than most cruising boats.

Another key element is making the boat comfortable. While our Xan isn't
the largest boat in the fleet, she's big enough for what we're doing and
we added comfort items first. Few 28' boats have 6x8' biminis, but ours
gives Pat a shady spot to stay cool. At anchor, we have further shade.

Nice thing about a smallish monohull is that I don't have to ask her to
help except under the most extreme conditions. She helps as she chooses,
preps food (something she likes -- I cook), lazes around or cleans as
the mood strikes. She can handle the boat quite well, though she
wouldn't say so as she compares her skills to mine.

In other words, it sounds like you really need some intermediate steps.

A captained charter in the Virgins (particularly the BVI) can be magic.
Temps in the winter are generally better than almost anywhere in the US
in mid-summer. In my experience, it is NOT a sufficient step before
going long-distance cruising, but it can create some great dreams.

--
Jere Lull
Xan-a-Deux ('73 Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD)
Xan's Pages: http://members.dca.net/jerelull/X-Main.html
Our BVI FAQs (290+ pics) http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

"Jere Lull" wrote in message
...
In article ,

....
In other words, it sounds like you really need some intermediate steps.

A captained charter in the Virgins (particularly the BVI) can be magic.
Temps in the winter are generally better than almost anywhere in the US
in mid-summer. In my experience, it is NOT a sufficient step before
going long-distance cruising, but it can create some great dreams.


Thanks Jere,
I am hoping to do exactly that! Just thinking about it makes me drool. I
will be moving to the Tampa Bay area in Mar 05. After the charter trip to
the Caribbean, I am hoping I can get her out in the bay and then around the
costal islands. Maybe I will be as successful as you have been.

Thanks,
Todd


--
Jere Lull
Xan-a-Deux ('73 Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD)
Xan's Pages: http://members.dca.net/jerelull/X-Main.html
Our BVI FAQs (290+ pics) http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/