Still Looking for The Boat
 

"MMC" wrote in message . com...
Wendy,
Keep your head down and make sure you wear your "battle rattle" when you go
outside. I got blown up (also contractor) July 03 north of Baghdad. Long
painful road and no fun.
MMC

Hey-

Sorry to hear about your misfortune. Anaconda? If it happened there
I believe I heard about that one- the barbeque incident near the admin
containers. (I spent three days there- hated it!) I am up north, in
Mosul. Medium violence level, we get the usual sorts of stuff-
mortars and such- with the occasional gunfight thrown in. Seems to be
picking up though; there was a big one this morning- car bomb in town,
probably. Got the PPE right here at my feet :)

Wendy

wendy wrote:
If it were a walk in the park I wouldn't want to do it :) I won't get
into a sailing resume here but I have a Pacific crossing down, and
several years of Caribbean experience (all the above on motor yachts).
I've been doing a lot of sailing lately- offshore racing in the Gulf
of Mexico, and some general crewing on a T-37.

Right, last visit you were talking about doing some crewing on OPBs. I
didn't mean to suggest that you were an utter newbie, just outlining a
plan in brief terms.

... This isn't rocket
science, although there IS a lot to learn. It will all come together;
all things happen in their own time.

You're right, and your positive attitude a huge asset for this kind of
endeavor. It isn't rocket science, and in fact one of my biggest gripes
is "old salts" who constantly try to make sailing sound difficult &
dangerous.

At this point you're window shopping and soaking up experience. Enjoy it
and don't be in a big rush to spend lots of money!

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

On Wed, 18 Aug 2004 16:21:04 -0400, DSK wrote:


Agreed, but also be aware that many apparent "deals" are not. Outfitting
in a strange place with higher prices and unfamiliar business practices,

True, but I would suggest that if you can save $20,000 on an
equivalent boat, it would be worth $3,000-$5,000 to fly in the
surveyor of your choice.

I didn't mean to suggest she go in cold into the intricacies of VAT
zones, customs duties, zarpes (do they still have zarpes?) and
unfamilar boats. But European boats are worth looking at, and the Net
listings are quite extensive.

And, she is currently nearby G

R.

On Wed, 18 Aug 2004 16:21:04 -0400, DSK wrote:

Check out non-American boats, particularly French and anything built
near the Bay of Biscay or the North Sea G. The American market is
primarily coastal cruising/Carribbean-oriented

Actually, I'd say the American market is primarily oriented toward
sitting tied to the dock.

Well, I didn't want to be mean G. It's not much different here in
Toronto, except that the May-October season means you have to really
WANT a boat to even bother...it's not "dock and forget".

R.

Wendy,

Let me put in a plug for a boat that a fit person can handle single handed.

I have a B-40 Custom Yawl, and she is quite comfortable for one to sail, if
the wind is over 15 kts just unroll some genoa and use the mizzen. There are
newer boats but few that I would want to bet my life on, or have to tend
sails in a squall. Modern boats are more weatherly and have taller rigs as
well. You pays your money and takes your choice.
--
Sheldon Haynie
Texas Instruments
50 Phillipe Cote
Manchester, NH 03101
603 222 8652

Actually, I'd say the American market is primarily oriented toward
sitting tied to the dock.


rhys wrote:
Well, I didn't want to be mean G.

Oh, was that mean? Sorry.

... It's not much different here in
Toronto, except that the May-October season means you have to really
WANT a boat to even bother...it's not "dock and forget".

That can be a good thing. We had a boat at our marina that appeared to
be much lower in the water after Hurrricane Charley went by. The people
in the slips on both sides said "It's been getting lower, but it wasn't
this bad." Turned out the water inside was almost up to the settees,
took about an hour with an electric pump for the dockmaster to get it
clear. Now the boat has barnacles growing 2 ~ 3" above the boot stripe.

The dockmaster told me that the owner of that boat has not been aboard,
that he knows of, for at least a year and a half.

It's sad... but it makes me wonder...

DSK

DSK wrote:


... if I were an expert welder, a steel boat might
make sense.

If you can learn to row "expertly",
you can learn to weld "expertly".

On Thu, 19 Aug 2004 21:58:34 GMT, Roy Jose Lorr
wrote:


... if I were an expert welder, a steel boat might
make sense.

If you can learn to row "expertly",
you can learn to weld "expertly".

That's been my impression for steel...you can do basic repairs and
seams with a few dozen hours of training. Gas-shielded stuff, like for
aluminum, is supposed to be considerably more tricky.

I think my point is that one of the pluses of steel...and there are
admittedly many minuses, is that one can carry the means (welding
gear) and the materials (plate and bar steel in small amounts) to do
fairly significant surface and structural repairs to one's boat, a
real plus if you are off the shipping lanes, so to speak, and need to
fix something to a functional if not pretty standard.

Many of us carry fibreglass repair kits or supplies, but if you had to
deal with part of a deck torn out or a hull crack...those are major
repairs beyond most people. With steel in many cases, you can make
modifications or repairs with patience and brute strength and no calls
to Purlator drums of West System to deepest Micronesia.

Also, in some of the anchorages I wish to visit, being able to replace
balsa core is not going to get me fresh produce. Being able to weld a
hard to replace and expensive piece of metal just might.

In order to sail for many years in mid-life, as I intend to do, I
consider it prudent to develop manual skills (engine repair,
electronics, welding, canvas repair) useful both to me on the boat (so
I can avoid paying for yard work) and useful in trade or to make money
in the places I want to go.

I hear there's a dentist in the Carribbean who has converted his
V-berth into a small clinic. He obtains crendentials from local
authorities and does a low-key, part-time trade for a few months,
which pays for the next leg of a voyage that never really has to end
due to a tapped-out kitty.

Sounds clever to me.

R.

rhys wrote:

On Thu, 19 Aug 2004 21:58:34 GMT, Roy Jose Lorr
wrote:


... if I were an expert welder, a steel boat might
make sense.

If you can learn to row "expertly",
you can learn to weld "expertly".

That's been my impression for steel...you can do basic repairs and
seams with a few dozen hours of training. Gas-shielded stuff, like for
aluminum, is supposed to be considerably more tricky.

What's tricky about aluminum is the environment.



I think my point is that one of the pluses of steel...and there are
admittedly many minuses, is that one can carry the means (welding
gear) and the materials (plate and bar steel in small amounts) to do
fairly significant surface and structural repairs to one's boat, a
real plus if you are off the shipping lanes, so to speak, and need to
fix something to a functional if not pretty standard.

Many of us carry fibreglass repair kits or supplies, but if you had to
deal with part of a deck torn out or a hull crack...those are major
repairs beyond most people. With steel in many cases, you can make
modifications or repairs with patience and brute strength and no calls
to Purlator drums of West System to deepest Micronesia.

If you have the welding gear but didn't bring spare steel along, and
need a rough and ready sizable repair (unlikely but not out of the
queastion) in less than optimum conditions, an all steel boat is one
large spare in itself. You cannibalize accordingly. And, if conditions
are trying (i.e. torch gone kaput), given one and a half pairs of hands,
a decent drill and bits, metal cutters and or a hole saw, hammers
and a 1/4 bucket of mild steel through bolts, you can make and rivet
a strong get you to the next port patch, in reasonably short order.

I have little use for plastic, in women, or water born craft.



Also, in some of the anchorages I wish to visit, being able to replace
balsa core is not going to get me fresh produce. Being able to weld a
hard to replace and expensive piece of metal just might.

Play it safe... bring money.



In order to sail for many years in mid-life, as I intend to do, I
consider it prudent to develop manual skills (engine repair,
electronics, welding, canvas repair) useful both to me on the boat (so
I can avoid paying for yard work) and useful in trade or to make money
in the places I want to go.

Don't count on making money... bring or have access to plenty... just
don't flash it around. Romantic illusions aren't worth the delusions
they're grounded in.



I hear there's a dentist in the Carribbean who has converted his
V-berth into a small clinic. He obtains crendentials from local
authorities and does a low-key, part-time trade for a few months,
which pays for the next leg of a voyage that never really has to end
due to a tapped-out kitty.

Sounds clever to me.

Is he painless?

Roy Jose Lorr wrote:
... Romantic illusions aren't worth the delusions
they're grounded in.

I might not have much of a taste for steel boats (I was in the Navy) but
I know a great epigram when I see one.

DSK

On Fri, 20 Aug 2004 06:23:42 GMT, Roy Jose Lorr
wrote:


What's tricky about aluminum is the environment.

Yes, my understanding is that it must be in still air,
close-to-constant temperature and so on. Steel can be welded under the
roof of an open shed, or with nothing if it's not raining...that's my
impression, anyway.


If you have the welding gear but didn't bring spare steel along, and
need a rough and ready sizable repair (unlikely but not out of the
queastion) in less than optimum conditions, an all steel boat is one
large spare in itself. You cannibalize accordingly.

Ugly, but true, and a good reason to have a steel dodger even if you
have an aluminum deck!

And, if conditions
are trying (i.e. torch gone kaput), given one and a half pairs of hands,
a decent drill and bits, metal cutters and or a hole saw, hammers
and a 1/4 bucket of mild steel through bolts, you can make and rivet
a strong get you to the next port patch, in reasonably short order.

I have little use for plastic, in women, or water born craft.

Heh...



Also, in some of the anchorages I wish to visit, being able to replace
balsa core is not going to get me fresh produce. Being able to weld a
hard to replace and expensive piece of metal just might.

Play it safe... bring money.

Well, yes...I would have enough money to go long-term cruising as a
matter of course, but I would like the option to spend as little of it
as possible in order to extend my period of long-term cruising....G



In order to sail for many years in mid-life, as I intend to do, I
consider it prudent to develop manual skills (engine repair,
electronics, welding, canvas repair) useful both to me on the boat (so
I can avoid paying for yard work) and useful in trade or to make money
in the places I want to go.

Don't count on making money... bring or have access to plenty... just
don't flash it around. Romantic illusions aren't worth the delusions
they're grounded in.

I am prepared for that, as I've said...but I intend to include on my
cruising routes places that are not big on the money economy. Trade
goods and services can come in handy in such places, beyond the idea
of self-sufficiency. If you can handle minor repairs, it stands to
reason that you'll have enough money for the major refits when they
happen, like "replace standing rigging" or "find a new used diesel"
and so on.



Is he painless?

Perhaps according to his bank manager.

rhys wrote:

On Fri, 20 Aug 2004 06:23:42 GMT, Roy Jose Lorr
wrote:


What's tricky about aluminum is the environment.

Yes, my understanding is that it must be in still air,
close-to-constant temperature and so on. Steel can be welded under the
roof of an open shed, or with nothing if it's not raining...that's my
impression, anyway.


If you have the welding gear but didn't bring spare steel along, and
need a rough and ready sizable repair (unlikely but not out of the
queastion) in less than optimum conditions, an all steel boat is one
large spare in itself. You cannibalize accordingly.

Ugly, but true, and a good reason to have a steel dodger even if you
have an aluminum deck!

What else is all the overdone superstructure for?



And, if conditions
are trying (i.e. torch gone kaput), given one and a half pairs of hands,
a decent drill and bits, metal cutters and or a hole saw, hammers
and a 1/4 bucket of mild steel through bolts, you can make and rivet
a strong get you to the next port patch, in reasonably short order.

I have little use for plastic, in women, or water born craft.

Heh...

- Heh...





Also, in some of the anchorages I wish to visit, being able to replace
balsa core is not going to get me fresh produce. Being able to weld a
hard to replace and expensive piece of metal just might.

Play it safe... bring money.

Well, yes...I would have enough money to go long-term cruising as a
matter of course, but I would like the option to spend as little of it
as possible in order to extend my period of long-term cruising....G



In order to sail for many years in mid-life, as I intend to do, I
consider it prudent to develop manual skills (engine repair,
electronics, welding, canvas repair) useful both to me on the boat (so
I can avoid paying for yard work) and useful in trade or to make money
in the places I want to go.

Don't count on making money... bring or have access to plenty... just
don't flash it around. Romantic illusions aren't worth the delusions
they're grounded in.

I am prepared for that, as I've said...but I intend to include on my
cruising routes places that are not big on the money economy. Trade
goods and services can come in handy in such places, beyond the idea
of self-sufficiency.

Last time I looked I couldn't find an inhabited place I'd visit where
money is refused in trade.

If you can handle minor repairs, it stands to
reason that you'll have enough money for the major refits when they
happen, like "replace standing rigging" or "find a new used diesel"
and so on.



Is he painless?

Perhaps according to his bank manager.

'Only his hair dresser knows.'
--

The last stage of
utopian sentimentalism
is homicidal mania.

DSK wrote:

Roy Jose Lorr wrote:
... Romantic illusions aren't worth the delusions
they're grounded in.

I might not have much of a taste for steel boats (I was in the Navy) but
I know a great epigram when I see one.

Wait till you see my epithets. "~)

On Fri, 20 Aug 2004 23:05:06 GMT, Roy Jose Lorr
wrote:





Roy Jose Lorr wrote:
... Romantic illusions aren't worth the delusions
they're grounded in.

DSK responded:
I might not have much of a taste for steel boats (I was in the Navy) but
I know a great epigram when I see one.

Wait till you see my epithets. "~)

Oh, don't stop there.
Show us your apophthegms too.
Pretty please?

Brian W

Brian Whatcott wrote:

On Fri, 20 Aug 2004 23:05:06 GMT, Roy Jose Lorr
wrote:





Roy Jose Lorr wrote:
... Romantic illusions aren't worth the delusions
they're grounded in.

DSK responded:
I might not have much of a taste for steel boats (I was in the Navy) but
I know a great epigram when I see one.

Wait till you see my epithets. "~)

Oh, don't stop there.
Show us your apophthegms too.
Pretty please?

Them what takes theyselves too seriously chokes on they own bile.
--

The last stage of
utopian sentimentalism
is homicidal mania.