In praise of keel coolers
 

I've been pleasantly surprised to see that our keel cooler keeps our
Frigoboat system at their design temps, 8 and 34 in freezer and frig,
respectively, despite it being not only out in the air, but under the drape
(leading to higher temps) around the boat during our bottom sanding.

Needless to say, it's more efficient in the water, but, hooked up to shore
power, power/amps aren't an issue, and we're thrilled with the ice cubes and
the icy drinks, along with entirely normal food preservation temps.

L8R

Skip, back to work

--
Morgan 461 #2
SV Flying Pig KI4MPC
See our galleries at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery !
Follow us at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFlyingPigLog
and/or http://groups.google.com/group/flyingpiglog

"Believe me, my young friend, there is *nothing*-absolutely nothing-half so
much worth doing as simply messing, messing-about-in-boats; messing about in
boats-or *with* boats.

In or out of 'em, it doesn't matter. Nothing seems really to matter, that's
the charm of it.

Whether you get away, or whether you don't; whether you arrive at your
destination or whether you reach somewhere else, or whether you never get
anywhere at all, you're always busy, and you never do anything in
particular; and when you've done it there's always something else to do, and
you can do it if you like, but you'd much better not."

In praise of keel coolers
 

On Thu, 14 Apr 2011 14:15:49 -0400, "Flying Pig"
wrote:

I've been pleasantly surprised to see that our keel cooler keeps our
Frigoboat system at their design temps, 8 and 34 in freezer and frig,
respectively, despite it being not only out in the air, but under the drape
(leading to higher temps) around the boat during our bottom sanding.

Does the Frigoboat system pass refrigerant through the keel cooler or
cooling water? Does it use a Danfoss BD50F condensing
unit/compressor?

In praise of keel coolers
 

"Gogarty" wrote in message
...
In article ,
says...
Does the Frigoboat system pass refrigerant through the keel cooler or
cooling water? Does it use a Danfoss BD50F condensing
unit/compressor?

The refrigerant passes through the keel cooler, which is a bronze block
about
6x3 inches and is the condensor. Hot liquid in, cool liqud out.The liquid
then evaporates on exit from the capillary tube into the evaporator.. The
compressor is a Danfoss. It does one hell of a job. However, I have been
having problems with blockage of the capillary tube. The only solution may
be
a new evaporator.


My evap is Stainless clad (only the freezer side - the wall side is still
bare aluminum (well, painted, but not clad).

I got that because I wanted a faster defrost - and I have a very workable
system involving a heat gun and a spatula.

Replacing the evap in our system would be nearly impossible - it would
require removing the top of the reefer/freezer, the countertop being that
impediment to access, as the evap is larger than the door to the freezer (I
built the box from the outside in, putting the top insulation on after the
installation of the evap). It covers three sides, the only part not
involved is the partition with the spillover fan in it.

I wanted never to repeat any of that construction process :{)) and thus the
SS plate.

Otherwise, Gogarty's description is exactly what we have.

L8R

Skip, trucking through the list - the first of three pages is all but
crossed out, now, but I'm STILL waiting for the welder for the bow rollers
and cage...

--
Morgan 461 #2
SV Flying Pig KI4MPC
See our galleries at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery !
Follow us at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFlyingPigLog
and/or http://groups.google.com/group/flyingpiglog

"Believe me, my young friend, there is *nothing*-absolutely nothing-half so
much worth doing as simply messing, messing-about-in-boats; messing about in
boats-or *with* boats.

In or out of 'em, it doesn't matter. Nothing seems really to matter, that's
the charm of it.

Whether you get away, or whether you don't; whether you arrive at your
destination or whether you reach somewhere else, or whether you never get
anywhere at all, you're always busy, and you never do anything in
particular; and when you've done it there's always something else to do, and
you can do it if you like, but you'd much better not."

In praise of keel coolers
 

On Thu, 14 Apr 2011 16:49:39 -0400, Gogarty
wrote:

However, I have been
having problems with blockage of the capillary tube. The only solution may be
a new evaporator.

If the blockage is coming from frozen moisture you may be able to
cure it by leaving a vacuum pump on the system for 6 to 8 hours. I
just had to do that with a new Adler-Barbour system and it seems to be
OK now. The symptoms were that it would start out cooling just fine
on startup and then slowly degrade over 24 hours.

In praise of keel coolers
 

"Wayne B" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 14 Apr 2011 16:49:39 -0400, Gogarty
wrote:

However, I have been
having problems with blockage of the capillary tube. The only solution may
be
a new evaporator.

If the blockage is coming from frozen moisture you may be able to
cure it by leaving a vacuum pump on the system for 6 to 8 hours. I
just had to do that with a new Adler-Barbour system and it seems to be
OK now. The symptoms were that it would start out cooling just fine
on startup and then slowly degrade over 24 hours.




Or, alternately, purge the system with dry nitrogen, then vacuum pump.

http://www.air-conditioner-selection...n-skilled.html

Wilbur Hubbard

In praise of keel coolers
 

On Fri, 15 Apr 2011 09:58:42 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:

Or, alternately, purge the system with dry nitrogen, then vacuum pump.

http://www.air-conditioner-selection...n-skilled.html

That web site sounds like it was written by a three year old ESL
(English as a Second Language) student. Some of the advice is OK but
a much better source is Nigel Calder's book:

http://www.amazon.com/Refrigeration-Pleasureboats-Installation-Maintenance-Repair/dp/0071579982

In praise of keel coolers
 

"WaIIy" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 15 Apr 2011 09:58:42 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:

"Wayne B" wrote in message
. ..
On Thu, 14 Apr 2011 16:49:39 -0400, Gogarty
wrote:

However, I have been
having problems with blockage of the capillary tube. The only solution
may
be
a new evaporator.

If the blockage is coming from frozen moisture you may be able to
cure it by leaving a vacuum pump on the system for 6 to 8 hours. I
just had to do that with a new Adler-Barbour system and it seems to be
OK now. The symptoms were that it would start out cooling just fine
on startup and then slowly degrade over 24 hours.




Or, alternately, purge the system with dry nitrogen, then vacuum pump.

http://www.air-conditioner-selection...n-skilled.html

Wilbur Hubbard


Didn't you fix yours with duct tape or something ?



Electrical tape - and it's still working great. There was a tiny pinhole
leak in the tubing behind the evaporator where the copper joined with the
aluminum. Apparently it was like that from the factory as when I installed
it, it didn't work due to being low on refrigerant. I had it warranteed and
the service guy came out and recharged it with his gauges, leak detector
etc. He put the correct pressure into it and it lasted about six months and
then it stopped cooling again. I bought my own pressure gauge and an adapter
from NAPA so I could charge it with those little automobile refrigerant
cans. But, it kept leaking down. Finally, the leak got big enough so I could
hear a hissing in the ice box when the compressor was running. Rather than
remover the evaporator and have the leak soldered, I just wrapped it thick
with quality electrical tape and it's now been about a year and it still
cools great.

Few sailors are as ingenious (and frugal) as I am.

Wilbur Hubbard

In praise of keel coolers
 

On Fri, 15 Apr 2011 18:24:36 -0400, Wayne B
wrote:

On Fri, 15 Apr 2011 09:58:42 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:

Or, alternately, purge the system with dry nitrogen, then vacuum pump.

http://www.air-conditioner-selection...n-skilled.html

That web site sounds like it was written by a three year old ESL
(English as a Second Language) student. Some of the advice is OK but
a much better source is Nigel Calder's book:

http://www.amazon.com/Refrigeration-Pleasureboats-Installation-Maintenance-Repair/dp/0071579982


Nigel is a bit technical for Willie, don't you think. :-?
Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)

In praise of keel coolers
 

On Fri, 15 Apr 2011 09:58:42 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:

"Wayne B" wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 14 Apr 2011 16:49:39 -0400, Gogarty
wrote:

However, I have been
having problems with blockage of the capillary tube. The only solution may
be
a new evaporator.

If the blockage is coming from frozen moisture you may be able to
cure it by leaving a vacuum pump on the system for 6 to 8 hours. I
just had to do that with a new Adler-Barbour system and it seems to be
OK now. The symptoms were that it would start out cooling just fine
on startup and then slowly degrade over 24 hours.




Or, alternately, purge the system with dry nitrogen, then vacuum pump.

http://www.air-conditioner-selection...n-skilled.html

Wilbur Hubbard


Why bother with the nitrogen and additional cost. Just hook up the
vacuum pump and turn it on. Go home, have a beer, eat supper and go to
bed. when you get back to work tomorrow the system will be dehydrated
and all you have to do is load the gas.

The trade has been doing this for Yonks (as out British cousins have
it), successfully.

Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)

In praise of keel coolers
 

"Bruce in Bangkok" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 15 Apr 2011 09:58:42 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:

"Wayne B" wrote in message
. ..
On Thu, 14 Apr 2011 16:49:39 -0400, Gogarty
wrote:

However, I have been
having problems with blockage of the capillary tube. The only solution
may
be
a new evaporator.

If the blockage is coming from frozen moisture you may be able to
cure it by leaving a vacuum pump on the system for 6 to 8 hours. I
just had to do that with a new Adler-Barbour system and it seems to be
OK now. The symptoms were that it would start out cooling just fine
on startup and then slowly degrade over 24 hours.




Or, alternately, purge the system with dry nitrogen, then vacuum pump.

http://www.air-conditioner-selection...n-skilled.html

Wilbur Hubbard


Why bother with the nitrogen and additional cost. Just hook up the
vacuum pump and turn it on. Go home, have a beer, eat supper and go to
bed. when you get back to work tomorrow the system will be dehydrated
and all you have to do is load the gas.

The trade has been doing this for Yonks (as out British cousins have
it), successfully.


An ignorant bit of advice, as usual, Bruce. What if the system has a small
leak. Then all the vacuum pump will accomplish is to suck humid air through
the system. If you're going to use a vacuum pump you can't go home and have
a beer and ignore the readings. If it won't hold a hard vacuum then you got
problems. Using dry nitrogen to pressurize the system before vacuuming it
out absorbs any moisture that might have gotten into the works. Try reading
the article. Oh, that's right, you are functionally illiterate. Never mind!

Wilbur Hubbard

Wilbur Hubbard

In praise of keel coolers
 

On Sat, 16 Apr 2011 13:23:29 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:



An ignorant bit of advice, as usual, Bruce. What if the system has a small
leak. Then all the vacuum pump will accomplish is to suck humid air through
the system. If you're going to use a vacuum pump you can't go home and have
a beer and ignore the readings. If it won't hold a hard vacuum then you got
problems. Using dry nitrogen to pressurize the system before vacuuming it
out absorbs any moisture that might have gotten into the works. Try reading
the article. Oh, that's right, you are functionally illiterate. Never mind!


I've vacuumed a number of A/C systems. Have a pretty good pump, rated
about 200 microns.
Standard practice is to pump down to the pump's rating, then turn off
the pump, isolate it with the gage set valve, and wait a while to see
if there's any leakdown on the gage.
I usually give it 5 or 6 hours to feel confident there's no leak.
But you're vacuuming because you've had a leak or failed component
and fixed that.
You're just verifying there's no leak before filling.
The main purpose of vacuuming is to eliminate moisture.
You'll know you have a leak if the gage changes, but not where.
Then you bring out the dye to find the leak, fix it, and vacuum again.
There's no worry about sucking in humid air if you fix it.
In the end the system will be dry before you add refrigerant.
Any time you remove an A/C component the system fills with humid air
anyway.
Not ideal, but before I bought my 200 micron pump I replaced a couple
compressors without vacuuming at all and the systems ran fine for
years.

Also used air-driven pumps to vacuum with no issues.
Air-driven pumps probably won't go below 2000 microns, not nearly
enough to eliminate all moisture. Better than nothing though.
Anyway there's usually some leeway when you do this.
Now, you can get a 200 micron pump and a gage set for under $200,
so car and boat A/C can be DIY with a little study.
Not familiar with boat reefers, but they seem amenable to DIY with the
same equipment.

Only use of dry nitrogen pressurization with A/C I've seen is in
conjunction with a freon leak detector, flushing when going to a
different refrigerant, and some industrial A/C testing and
maintenance.
I googled that out of curiosity, because I hadn't heard of it..
I've always easily found A/C leaks using UV dye and a light.

--Vic

In praise of keel coolers
 

On Sat, 16 Apr 2011 13:23:29 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:

"Bruce in Bangkok" wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 15 Apr 2011 09:58:42 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:

"Wayne B" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 14 Apr 2011 16:49:39 -0400, Gogarty
wrote:

However, I have been
having problems with blockage of the capillary tube. The only solution
may
be
a new evaporator.

If the blockage is coming from frozen moisture you may be able to
cure it by leaving a vacuum pump on the system for 6 to 8 hours. I
just had to do that with a new Adler-Barbour system and it seems to be
OK now. The symptoms were that it would start out cooling just fine
on startup and then slowly degrade over 24 hours.




Or, alternately, purge the system with dry nitrogen, then vacuum pump.

http://www.air-conditioner-selection...n-skilled.html

Wilbur Hubbard


Why bother with the nitrogen and additional cost. Just hook up the
vacuum pump and turn it on. Go home, have a beer, eat supper and go to
bed. when you get back to work tomorrow the system will be dehydrated
and all you have to do is load the gas.

The trade has been doing this for Yonks (as out British cousins have
it), successfully.


An ignorant bit of advice, as usual, Bruce. What if the system has a small
leak. Then all the vacuum pump will accomplish is to suck humid air through
the system. If you're going to use a vacuum pump you can't go home and have
a beer and ignore the readings. If it won't hold a hard vacuum then you got
problems. Using dry nitrogen to pressurize the system before vacuuming it
out absorbs any moisture that might have gotten into the works. Try reading
the article. Oh, that's right, you are functionally illiterate. Never mind!

Wilbur Hubbard

Wilbur Hubbard

Willie boy, you really are ignorant. Why in the world would one want
to vacuum down a system with a leak. I had neglected to write
(assuming I was talking with a normally intelligent individual) that
one first repaired the system and secondly vacuumed the system and
finally re-charged the system.

If you are one of the mis-guided people who carry water in leaking
buckets, don't check if there is toilet paper before taking a crap or
look both ways before crossing the road then I'm afraid there is no
help for you.


Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)

In praise of keel coolers
 

On Sat, 16 Apr 2011 15:44:58 -0500, Vic Smith
wrote:

On Sat, 16 Apr 2011 13:23:29 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:



An ignorant bit of advice, as usual, Bruce. What if the system has a small
leak. Then all the vacuum pump will accomplish is to suck humid air through
the system. If you're going to use a vacuum pump you can't go home and have
a beer and ignore the readings. If it won't hold a hard vacuum then you got
problems. Using dry nitrogen to pressurize the system before vacuuming it
out absorbs any moisture that might have gotten into the works. Try reading
the article. Oh, that's right, you are functionally illiterate. Never mind!


I've vacuumed a number of A/C systems. Have a pretty good pump, rated
about 200 microns.
Standard practice is to pump down to the pump's rating, then turn off
the pump, isolate it with the gage set valve, and wait a while to see
if there's any leakdown on the gage.
I usually give it 5 or 6 hours to feel confident there's no leak.
But you're vacuuming because you've had a leak or failed component
and fixed that.
You're just verifying there's no leak before filling.
The main purpose of vacuuming is to eliminate moisture.
You'll know you have a leak if the gage changes, but not where.
Then you bring out the dye to find the leak, fix it, and vacuum again.
There's no worry about sucking in humid air if you fix it.
In the end the system will be dry before you add refrigerant.
Any time you remove an A/C component the system fills with humid air
anyway.
Not ideal, but before I bought my 200 micron pump I replaced a couple
compressors without vacuuming at all and the systems ran fine for
years.

Also used air-driven pumps to vacuum with no issues.
Air-driven pumps probably won't go below 2000 microns, not nearly
enough to eliminate all moisture. Better than nothing though.
Anyway there's usually some leeway when you do this.
Now, you can get a 200 micron pump and a gage set for under $200,
so car and boat A/C can be DIY with a little study.
Not familiar with boat reefers, but they seem amenable to DIY with the
same equipment.

Only use of dry nitrogen pressurization with A/C I've seen is in
conjunction with a freon leak detector, flushing when going to a
different refrigerant, and some industrial A/C testing and
maintenance.
I googled that out of curiosity, because I hadn't heard of it..
I've always easily found A/C leaks using UV dye and a light.

--Vic

Forget the technical explanation. You are writing to a fool that knows
HE is right and that the rest of the world is wrong.

Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)