BoatBanter.com - September Surprises...

BoatBanter.com (https://www.boatbanter.com/)

- Cruising (https://www.boatbanter.com/cruising/)

- - September Surprises... (https://www.boatbanter.com/cruising/118637-september-surprises.html)

September Surprises...

September Surprises...

We left you as we were preparing for the edge of Hurricane Earl, promising
very high winds, but relatively dry weather, with Marsh Harbour being on the
"dry" side of his rotation. With all the easily removed stuff stowed below,
anything not easily removed firmly secured, and all possible windage
reduced, we went to bed confident that we could survive anything forecast.

As so often happens, all the best weather forecasting is just a guess, and
Earl was a total non-event. By dark, during the last of our preparations,
the wind was dying. It died further, and, indeed, the stars were out when
we went to bed. The worst that happened was that a brief shower woke us,
necessitating closing the hatch until my next check a couple of hours later
revealed clear skies and wind under 20 knots. Surprise!

One of our cruising buddies in the harbor had some difficulties with his
engine. In the course of trying to isolate the problem, he broke some
critical parts. Dad's Hardware Store, as my kids used to call my inordinate
amount of gear and supplies, the place they knew they could find anything
they needed, has become Dad's Chandlery and Engine Supply, so, of course, I
had a full set of injectors needed to get his boat back in operation. In
the course of going across the harbor to his boat to see how he was getting
along, just as I arrived at his boat, my 6HP outboard, the one we've been
using on our inflatable, died.

Symptoms were that it had a cooling problem. As I've successfully addressed
an exactly identical problem on our inflatable's usual power plant, that
didn't concern me much. The surprise was the blessing I had by having that
problem develop at his boat. A simple tow back to our home, and an engine
swap - to our usual 15HP engine - on the transom of our inflatable later, we
were back in business. However, had that same problem occurred, with the
same engine, when we were truly out in the wilderness in the Jumentos, I
might not be here writing this today, as we were literally many miles from
anyone during most of our excursions. Surprise!

I went out back to start up our Honda generator just before dark and, with
some horror, saw that the fuel tank's cap was gone. Analysis incicates that
the way we'd been securing our dinghy had allowed the line to contact the
cap in such a way as to loosen it, little by little, until it fell off.

Dad's Hardware to the rescue, after a frantic search through my various
stuff, failing until I reached my plumbing supplies. It wasn't pretty, but
it WOULD keep the water out of the fuel during a rainstorm, and a separate
solution would allow me to run it, albeit with a hypervigilant eye on the
sky, as it wasn't proven to be rainproof, even though it might have been.
With the frequent showers we were having, something more effective would be
needed. I resolved to go to the "real" hardware store to obtain a more
elegant replacement for my Rube Goldbergian stopgap the next day, after
first stopping at the Honda maintenance place to see if they might, on a
long shot, have a cap in stock.

However, one of our buddy boats (among the few remaining cruisers in the
harbor, we've been keeping an eye and ear out for difficulties and jumping
in to help where we can) had heard about our challenge by eavesdropping on
the "party line." The party line is our VHF radios where, after contact is
made, we switch to a "working channel" off the hailing channel. As it's the
open airwaves, folks frequently hear the call, and, if they're not otherwise
busy, switch along with the original parties to listen in, as well as,
sometimes, to break in with commentary and offers of assistance. In this
case, he offered to come snorkel around the stern of the boat with me.
Convinced I'd never find it, as there had been wind shifts recently, I'd
expected to abandon it. However, shamed into it, we went into the water at
mid tide, making it 7 or 8 feet deep where we were. I rationalized that it
would cool me off, and, what the heck - we might find it.

After about a half-hour of it, I was ready to get out, but, just in case,
went to look in an area we'd not been covering. Not 10' off to the side of
our boat, I saw something which looked like a hole that one sees frequently,
home of some sea-dweller. Looking more closely, I saw a glint in the center
of it. Diving down to it, I discovered the glint to be the center of the
inside of the cap. A fresh water rinse and a dry-in-the-sun later, all is
well. Surprise!

My computer, which is my lifeline, my navigation backup (among others), my
database, resource storage for all things boating and personal information,
and too many other things to enumerate, started flaking on me.

Been there, done that, I enlisted the help of some geek friends. Attempting
to keep the geek language to a minimum, I'll say only that my vendor agreed
with his hypothesis. Accordingly, a new hard drive is on the way to some
friends who will be visiting us in the Bahamas.

In the meantime, however, I went through the several stages all geeks have
come to visit at one time or another, leading to constant blue screens of
death, known as BSODs among those willing to dive into resolution.
Eventually, all my rescusitative efforts with MS XP disk, utility disks, and
others, failed, with the computer failing to recognize the drive. Worse,
digging out a spare drive, formatting it, loading my backup program and
Windoze XP on a fresh disk, and attempting to restore to that disk, using
the several backup and incremental backups I'd made, failed. Apparently the
files were corrupted, somehow. YIKES!

However, letting the computer sit overnight and attempting to start it again
showed that the failed drive was again visible, though not able to start
Windows. Again leaving off the geek explanation, that's consistent with my
friend's hypothesis.

Encouraged, I dig out my trusty external connection device after I've
swapped drives, with the newly formatted, XP- and backup program-loaded
bringing up the screen in the usual fashion, and, when I activate my
external tool on the original drive, indeed, it's visible.

So, quickly, I move copies of my critical data and all the
program-initiating files from it to my backup drive, and commence the
terribly tedious task of starting over on a new hard drive. I'll have to do
that again, when the new, cooler-running, and less power-hungry drive
arrives, but, for now, all is well, with the programs reinstalled running
well. (I like this kind of) Surprise!

One set of nearly windless, hot and muggy days, I finally got to the bow
with two different passivation (makes stainless steel which has been welded
or otherwise altered from its original state shiny again) compounds. Those
following us for at least a year may remember that there was some serious
welding done on our bow rollers and protective cage then. Without
passivation, it proceeded to rust ferociously in that area. The two
compounds I have were both claimed to be giant killers in restoring
stainless steel to brilliance. This certainly would be the acid test!

That's because both are acidic in nature. One, Spotless Stainless, is
environmentally friendly, using citric acid as its active component. Shake
it up, brush it on, keep it moist for a half hour, rinse it off, and stand
back and admire the results, which continue for a full 24 hours to improve
via some chemistry which I'll spare you. The other, Wonder Gel, is
definitely industrial grade, using nitric acid as its active component.
Application is very similar, but reading up on it on the company website's
reviews page suggested one could leave it on for considerably longer.

I did a separation test - one side with SS, the other with WG. True to
reports, I had to do some water-spritzing on SS to keep it moist. After a
half hour, I hosed them both off. Neither were giant-killers, but there was
definite progress. Curious to me, however, was that there seemed to be some
milky-looking (the solution is milky in color when applied) thin residue on
the SS side. Not to worry, it shouldn't have any impact...

I let it sit a few days, and, while things were brighter in the uncrusted
areas, there was still notable rust on both sides of the major weld areas.
So, I did it again, but this time reversed sides. Following the same
process, I noted that some areas where the SS had been applied before
yielded a cloudy look on the WG side this time. Hm. That's odd. Well, no
matter, it should all rinse off in the end.

Lots of rinsing later, it wasn't, in fact, gone. Leaving that for later,
thinking it would come off with a scrubbie, I reflected on some of the
reviews of the WG, and went back, taking a wire brush with me to attack some
of the larger remaining rust areas. Between wire brushing and chipping with
the end of one of the brushes, virtually all of the crusty rust flaked off,
exposing a bright surface underneath. Curiously, however, after a couple of
days there were little surface rust spots where there had been none before.
A swipe with the wire brush took them right off, too. Those little (well,
the milky area is substantial, covering most of one side of the protective
cage) milky areas aside, nearly all the major rust is gone, and, while, as
rough welding, not particularly pretty, the major weld areas are bright
again.

Next step was to get some 3M scrubbie pads to get off the milky looking
stuff. No such luck. Even a handled-version of the same, in a higher grit,
made only the smallest dent in the milky stuff. No success, even using a
mix of oxalic acid and Comet with the scrubbies. Lesson learned, one must
apparently scrub the SS stuff off as you rinse it, lest remains and dries on
the surface. I'm hopeful it will respond, but also know that it may not,
when I take a grinder and buffing wheel with rouge to it when we're on the
hard next spring. Not exactly what I'd expected, lesson learned for dual
application, and... Surprise!

Hurricane season was still in full swing, with tropical disturbances seeming
as though they were being spit out of an assembly line in Africa, but none
of the several tropical storms which developed came anywhere near us, and
were of no event. Weather in the latter part of the month was glorious, so
we went sailing, more on which below.

However, the massive tropical low which had been lurking in the central
Caribbean, in the course of a few hours, went from a tropical low to a
tropical depression ("tropical depression 16") to a tropical storm (Nicole),
generating, in that same short time, for our area, a tropical storm watch
moving quickly to tropical storm warning. This was a huge system, but very
disorganized, so, ironically, the "center" of it had very settled weather,
but the nastiness extended for hundreds of miles to the South and East.

Thus, suddenly, we were at risk. We moved from our secure anchor to an even
more secure, hurricane-proven, mooring nearby, made double lines to it for
extra protection, wrapped the genoa with the spinnaker halyard to prevent
potential damage, and settled in for the predicted 40-60 knot gusts and LOTS
of rain.

We did, in fact, see one gust to 40knots during one extended period of more
than 30 knots (35mph), and get massive amounts of rain, prompting me to go
empty the dinghy several times in rain-lulls. We secured the KISS wind
generator on the worst-expected overnight to come, and settled in. Happily,
by late afternoon, most of the real excitement was over. Aside from some
loud noise due to the wind, and having to keep our hatch closed most of the
time, like every other tropical storm or disturbance we've been in, thanks
in no small part to our having prepared for worse, was pretty much a
non-event. Indeed, by the following morning, NOAA (the US weather
forecasting folks) had declared Nicole dead, and not even a tropical low any
more. Surprise!

So, enough of the surprises. Weather here in the Bahamas, despite the risk
of tropical storms at this time of year, is marvelous. We stayed in Marsh
Harbour for most of the time, thoroughly enjoying the small community of
cruisers who remained in the low season, and making several new and very
dear friends in the process.

Toward the end of the month, weather was so fantastic that we all headed off
to different parts, taking advantage of the good sailing promised. The
promise lived up to the expectation...

September 23rd, we sailed off our anchor in Marsh Harbour, bound for
Fisher's Bay, near the top of Great Guana Cay. A spot of excitement due to
our having slipped the anchor at a point when we were on the wrong tack
momentarily had us slightly grounded in the shallows next to the small
channel leading out from the shipping docks, but that was quickly resolved
as we got back onto a starboard tack and headed out of the harbor.

We saw fairly consistent winds on what was, initially, a broad reach, moving
through a beam to a close reach after we cleared the rocks in the way of a
direct approach to our anchorage. A fantastic day to sail, with bright
sunshine, nice breezes, we were there in 1:45 from anchor up to anchor down,
and we settled in to join our friends who'd left the previous day.

The next day was also a great sailing day, and one of our friends, who'd
stayed behind to get some work done on the boat (endless boat chores, of
course, keeps the boat shipshape, and they'd had more than their share of
challenges this month, one of which I was able to assist in diagnosing since
I had a mechanic's stethoscope), quickly arrived. Our friends who were here
the previous day had already snagged a lobster, so we were anxious to get in
the water to see if we could duplicate their success.

The six of us spent a warm afternoon looking under rocks, and, sure enough,
both of our neighbors brought home a lobster. I only saw lionfish, the
poisonous-barbed scourge of the Bahamas, but not having my spear along,
didn't take any. Too bad, as the Bahamian government wants every one
possible killed, as they are a threat to the indigenous species here.
Another cruising couple had told us, in the Exumas, that if you take a
scissors and cut off their spines, they are actually great eating, so I'm
looking forward to trying that out some time!

After a shoreside expedition to one of the businesses who advertise on the
morning cruiser's net, of which I'm a sometime anchor (three of us have been
rotating anchor chores, and, now, with one of them gone, it's fallen to the
abovementioned diesel-challenged boat and me until the normal anchor gets
back from her vacation), we saw yet another of our Marsh Harbour friends
pull in.

They were just overnighting, however, and we all pulled up anchor and headed
for different parts, some to return home, others to different anchorages,
and us back to Marsh Harbour. So, on September 27th, at 1:15, we again
sailed off our anchor, this time with plenty of room and depth if it worked
out on the wrong side. As it happened, we were pointed in the right
direction, and proceeded directly to our course of 191*T, with wind at 13-18
knots, pinching to 30* apparent wind and enjoying the 5.2-6.1knot speed over
ground.

However, that got to be a bit wearing, as the wind was coming up and, in
that full-sailed condition, were a bit over-canvassed at that point of sail,
and heeling to 20*. The most efficient level of heel is well under that...

So, at 1:30, we bore off a bit, to 195*T, and rolled up the genoa from its
normal 135% to about 110% (measured in the difference between 100% being the
point of the clew, the attaching point for our sheets, reaching to the mast,
or some percentage further than the distance to the tack, at the bottom of
the front of the sail), resulting in a much more comfortable level of heel,
and a much-less-pinched 35* apparent wind.

As the wind was nearly directly from the place we were going, we were going
to have to tack our way home, so at 2PM, as we neared the opposite shore, we
did just that, making our COG 88*T. Suddenly, the clam clutch on the furler
line let go, and the genoa ran out to its full 135%. Oops! No biggie, I
rolled it back in, this time to about 85%, in 24 knots apparent wind, still
pinched to 30*. Frequent readers of this stuff which gushes out from me in
a torrent of loghorrea may recall a similar time under full sail where we
manually steered, as the slightest wind shift held the possibility for our
becoming backwinded, requiring more effort than we like (lazy slobs, we are)
to correct.

Flying Pig actually sails very well very close to the wind, but in that
attitude needs constant attention. No problem - we came to sail! With the
wind up as it was, we were taking some water over the deck, vexing Lydia,
who, every time that happens, feels compelled to wash it down afterwards,
preferably with a good rain. We were also head-on to the prevailing swell,
and, combined with the tidal flow being against us and the hobbyhorsing of
the boat, we were creeping along at all of 2.6-3.0 knots.

Sure enough, however, "wait 15 minutes" being our watchword before we do
anything substantial, by 2:45 the wind had dropped to an acceptable level to
let out the genoa again. Initially, that led to similar speeds, but the
wind was now only 12-16 knots, a very enjoyable, if slow, sail.

That drop in wind was the harbinger of a shift, fortunately, and we improved
our course over ground to 102*T. With that difference in the tidal flow, we
also picked up speed, allowing us to make half again our progress, at
3.9-4.5knots SOG. We were happily sailing along (you can still see, for
another couple of days, our course on tinyurl.com/flyingpigspot if you were
so inclined), so went as close as possible to Man'O'War before making our
final tack. Waiting, and thus proceeding further, would allow us a more
comfortable point of sail as we headed toward the harbor.

So, at 3:45, we tacked again, this time to 215*T, allowing us a more
favorable 45* point of sail with 14-16 knots of apparent wind, this time
with the waves on our beam, and, aided by the tidal flow keeping us pointed
in the same direction we were actually going, allowed us to pick up the pace
to our more typical 5.5-6.5 knots.

During the day, especially during our nearly-overcanvassed conditions as we
pinched along, we'd kept a wary eye on some potential squalls, but aside
from the occasional wind increases to the mid-20s (close to 30mph), it was a
great sail, if busy. We hit our mark at the entrance to the harbor at 4:30,
and had the anchor down in our usual spot by 4:15 - nearly exactly double
the time it took us to sail up!

All in all, a most enjoyable month in the Abacos. We'll stay here for
another few weeks, as our weather guru, Chris Parker, cautions strongly that
conditions are ripe for lots more excitement before it's all over. Indeed,
despite the currently bright sunshine and moderate (12-17, with 20knot
gusts) breezes filling our battery banks from our "green" solar panels and
wind generator, much higher winds are forecast for the beginning of October.
Having made the effort to get secure on our mooring, we'll leave Flying Pig
where it is for the moment, but, most likely, will start heading south as
soon as the weather systems settle down a bit.

So, for now, we'll leave you, unreasonably blessed in our comfortable home.
Until next time, Stay Tuned!

L8R

Skip

Morgan 461 #2
SV Flying Pig KI4MPC
See our galleries at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery !
Follow us at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFlyingPigLog
and/or http://groups.google.com/group/flyingpiglog

"You are never given a wish without also being given the power to
make it come true. You may have to work for it however."
(and)
"There is no such thing as a problem without a gift for you in
its hand. You seek problems because you need their gifts."

(Richard Bach, in Illusions - The Reluctant Messiah)

September Surprises...

On Sep 30, 7:32*pm, "Flying Pig" wrote:
September Surprises...

bla bla bal same **** as usual above.........

My computer, which is my lifeline, my navigation backup (among others), my
database, resource storage for all things boating and personal information,
and too many other things to enumerate, started flaking on me.

Been there, done that, I enlisted the help of some geek friends. *Attempting
to keep the geek language to a minimum, I'll say only that my vendor agreed
with his hypothesis. Accordingly, a new hard drive is on the way to some
friends who will be visiting us in the Bahamas.

In the meantime, however, I went through the several stages all geeks have
come to visit at one time or another, leading to constant blue screens of
death, known as BSODs among those willing to dive into resolution.
Eventually, all my rescusitative efforts with MS XP disk, utility disks, and
others, failed, with the computer failing to recognize the drive. *Worse,
digging out a spare drive, formatting it, loading my backup program and
Windoze XP on a fresh disk, and attempting to restore to that disk, using
the several backup and incremental backups I'd made, failed. Apparently the
files were corrupted, somehow. *YIKES!

However, letting the computer sit overnight and attempting to start it again
showed that the failed drive was again visible, though not able to start
Windows. *Again leaving off the geek explanation, that's consistent with my
friend's hypothesis.

Encouraged, I dig out my trusty external connection device after I've
swapped drives, with the newly formatted, XP- and backup program-loaded
bringing up the screen in the usual fashion, and, when I activate my
external tool on the original drive, indeed, it's visible.

So, quickly, I move copies of my critical data and all the
program-initiating files from it to my backup drive, and commence the
terribly tedious task of starting over on a new hard drive. *I'll have to do
that again, when the new, cooler-running, and less power-hungry drive
arrives, but, for now, all is well, with the programs reinstalled running
well. *(I like this kind of) Surprise!

Skip,

Instead of spending your day in paradise with such things jsut buy two
CF 29 tough books @ $4oo/each. When one goes belly up swap it out,
open the hard drive door and send it to Panasonic for another. New one
comes in open o-ring flip door and slip hard drive in. now you have 2
computers working again CF 29 have o-ring flip door removable HDs.

Total time...... 10 min

Why are havnt you learned how to make your life more stress less.
Unless you use all your geeking as a way to fill an other wise empty
life.
Bob

September Surprises...

1025x769
and 800 mHz

Computers aboard, again (was) September Surprises...

Hiya...

"Bob" wrote in message
...
On Sep 30, 7:32 pm, "Flying Pig" wrote:
September Surprises...

*********
bla bla bal same **** as usual above.........
+++++++++

(clipping the computer stuff, too, here, which Bob left)
*********
Skip,

Instead of spending your day in paradise with such things jsut buy two
CF 29 tough books @ $4oo/each. When one goes belly up swap it out,
open the hard drive door and send it to Panasonic for another. New one
comes in open o-ring flip door and slip hard drive in. now you have 2
computers working again CF 29 have o-ring flip door removable HDs.

Total time...... 10 min

Why are havnt you learned how to make your life more stress less.
Unless you use all your geeking as a way to fill an other wise empty
life.
Bob
+++++

Well, I've come to a different conclusion as to what I'll do about the new
drive, which has landed in the Bahamas, but onto which I've yet to lay
hands, see below.

Rather than buying 2x $400 things which are lovely to take into the cockpit,
or not worry about getting wet if you take them ashore, or their many
shortcomings as to my and Cavelamb's preferred nav station computing levels,
what's coming is a $50 500G 2.5" drive, which will generate much less heat
in a very tight space (as you'd find on a laptop, too, of course, but mine
has acres of interior by comparison), my problem is the HD, not the
computer.

So, taking the drive out and sticking it in another computer isn't the
solution, let alone having a $400 piece of gear I'd otherwise not use.

My current drive (the original which came with my computer) is doing just
fine. See below for how and why.

Since you're a geek, too, and this is relabeled rather than the original
thread, I'll share the conclusion Larry, of this group's fame, and of the
ping on the most recent computer thread, reached: HDs get hot. Their metal
disks expand due to heat. The tracks get messed up dimensionally, and the
heads can't reliably find the data which is there and just fine. After
reviewing my conversation with Larry, my supplier, a very different Bob, of
WiFi supplier fame, agreed that's a likely cause. The solution is to go to
a laptop type drive, running very much less hot, with the happy bonus of
being less watt-hungry. If it weren't for my needing more storage than was
generally available at the time I bought mine, it would have had it (a 2.5"
drive) then as all of his other computers do; likely I'd not have had these
recurrent (over the several years, now, that I've had it) problems. Back to
Larry...

He's taken presumed dead disks, refrigerated them for a while, stuck them
back in and they work find. Pull any data you want from them, get them good
and warm, reformat them, and start over. He's got a server with 8 drives
he's rescued from the dumpsters, supposedly dead, which have been running
just fine, now, after that treatment, for years.

So, not only will I do a backup when I get the drive, but short-cutting the
new drive's readiness for my use, I'll clone the current drive (recall I did
the Larry trick, getting it warm, formatting, installing the OS, and then
doing my rebuild), which is up and running just fine, to the new disk

Then I'll do your trick of swapping the drives, without having to have a
second computer ready for it. Every so often, I'll clone the new drive back
to one of my 3.5" disks (the two - original, and replacement - from my
original computer purchase), in addition to doing my backups and incremental
backups. That way, should there be an unexpected failure, I can do the
drive swap again without having to go through the whole load-the-OS, etc.,
process

Agreed that my swap isn't quite as painless as yours - but I'm adept at
removing the computer from its mount, pulling the three screws securing the
case, the one screw holding the drive caddy, the 4 screws holding the drive,
unhooking the data and power cables, and reversing the process. Probably
more like 15 minutes, screwdriver in hand to laying it down, including the
dismount/remount of the computer itself.

Belt and suspenders, there's really only three folders which are critical to
me; reinstalling the programs is merely time-consuming, should it come to
that. So, every so often, I'll make bit-for-bit backups of those three
folders, in addition to my restoration backups.

Note that I am not against Toughbooks, though, for the bells and whistles,
as covered in another thread a while back, if I were going to go that route,
I'd most likely buy an Itronics with GPS, WiFi, and, so far as I can tell,
at least as many (other) bells and whistles as a Toughbook, except that it
has a touch screen, too.

As cheap as big 2.5" HDs are, I'd get a low-capacity one, as the Itronics
resellers seem to want an inordinate amont more for bigger storage, and
stick in a larger capacity drive.

Then, too, if I weren't using it for my entire life's history, pictures,
databases, and the like, but just using it for a navigation tool, I might
spring for one of the solid state drives, which certainly would be faster,
not to mention power misers and cool-running.

I suppose, as the industry progresses, just as you can now buy 32G
thumbdrives (relatively) cheaply, the time will come when SS mass storage is
the norm. Who'd have ever believed, for example that you could put 32G of
150x memory on a 1/4" or smaller chip (microSD)??? I've not actually been
in front of a SSHD, but they look to be about the size of a credit card...

How's your commercial marine life coming along?

L8R

Skip, now in Hopetown for a change of scene, still being morning net anchor
(you could listen if you had any interest in hearing what I sound like in
RL, by clicking http://24.244.169.130:8010/listen.pls - which will download
the player - allowing hearing the broadcast delayed by a minute or two -
about 8:15AM Eastern)

--
Morgan 461 #2
SV Flying Pig KI4MPC
See our galleries at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery!
Follow us at http://groups.google.com/group/flyingpiglog and/or
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFlyingPigLog

"Believe me, my young friend, there is *nothing*-absolutely nothing-half so
much worth doing as simply messing, messing-about-in-boats; messing about in
boats-or *with* boats.
In or out of 'em, it doesn't matter. Nothing seems really to matter, that's
the charm of it.
Whether you get away, or whether you don't; whether you arrive at your
destination or whether you reach somewhere else, or whether you never get
anywhere at all, you're always busy, and you never do anything in
particular; and when you've done it there's always something else to do, and
you can do it if you like, but you'd much better not."

Computers aboard, again (was) September Surprises...

*********
bla bla bal same **** as usual above.........
+++++++++

Total time...... 10 min

Rather than buying 2x $400 things which are lovely to take into the cockpit,

or not worry about getting wet if you take them ashore,

your language is difficult to understand.
CF-29s et al are bullet proof (sorta) as well as water proof (proven).
If they get dirty just HOZE them off...........

or their many
shortcomings

What short commings??????

Note that I am not against Toughbooks, though, for the bells and whistles,

Once again your language is equivical............ no bells and
whistles. just rock solid hardware.

As Ive said before.... most these guys here are 65 year old GEEKS who
have been out of the business for 20 years, and maybe at best sell
some dodads off a crappy boat to take an IRS Schedule C.
Find some one who actually works for a living and look at what they
are using. They aint got time to dick with geeky dreams used to fill
an other wise boring empty life. Stay away from those hobby/loss guy.

BOb

September Surprises...

On Sun, 03 Oct 2010 18:21:25 -0500, CaveLamb
wrote:

Skip the computer and just use paper rather than deal with a sluggish computer

My favorite boat computer is a Toughbook that I bought used for $265
or so. It's more than adequate for managing charts in BSB format,
browsing the web, reading EMAIL, etc., and it just keeps on ticking.

September Surprises...

Wayne.B wrote:
On Sun, 03 Oct 2010 18:21:25 -0500, CaveLamb
wrote:

Skip the computer and just use paper rather than deal with a sluggish computer

My favorite boat computer is a Toughbook that I bought used for $265
or so. It's more than adequate for managing charts in BSB format,
browsing the web, reading EMAIL, etc., and it just keeps on ticking.

And last, though certainly not least, is the limited contrast / brightness.

How can you read that out in the cockpit?

I couldn't - and that was in the shade.

--

Richard Lamb

September Surprises...

On Sun, 03 Oct 2010 19:56:14 -0500, CaveLamb
wrote:

Wayne.B wrote:
On Sun, 03 Oct 2010 18:21:25 -0500, CaveLamb
wrote:

Skip the computer and just use paper rather than deal with a sluggish computer

My favorite boat computer is a Toughbook that I bought used for $265
or so. It's more than adequate for managing charts in BSB format,
browsing the web, reading EMAIL, etc., and it just keeps on ticking.

And last, though certainly not least, is the limited contrast / brightness.

How can you read that out in the cockpit?

I couldn't - and that was in the shade.

Mine is usually up on the flybridge in shaded sunlight. No problem
reading it. It dims down fairly well for night usage also.

Toughbook?? Computers aboard, again (was) September Surprises...

"Bob" wrote in message
...

*********
bla bla bal same **** as usual above.........
+++++++++

Total time...... 10 min

Rather than buying 2x $400 things which are lovely to take into the
cockpit,

or not worry about getting wet if you take them ashore,

your language is difficult to understand.
CF-29s et al are bullet proof (sorta) as well as water proof (proven).
If they get dirty just HOZE them off...........

or their many
shortcomings

What short commings??????

Note that I am not against Toughbooks, though, for the bells and
whistles,

Once again your language is equivical............ no bells and
whistles. just rock solid hardware.

BOb

Hi, again,

As this is now a toughbook vs other hardy laptops discussion, I'll drop out,
and with hope, rename the thread so it doesn't confuse matters.

That said, I have nothing against toughbooks. It just has nothing to do
with my (presumably solved) challenges witih (apparent) hard drive failures.
Every time the computer has been back, it won't display any internal
troubles which could cause my experiences.

Y'all fight over whether toughbook will work at sea to your hearts' content.
I very much doubt I'll have any first-hand input :{))

L8R

Skip

--
Morgan 461 #2
SV Flying Pig KI4MPC
See our galleries at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery!
Follow us at http://groups.google.com/group/flyingpiglog and/or
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFlyingPigLog

"Believe me, my young friend, there is *nothing*-absolutely nothing-half so
much worth doing as simply messing, messing-about-in-boats; messing about in
boats-or *with* boats.
In or out of 'em, it doesn't matter. Nothing seems really to matter, that's
the charm of it.
Whether you get away, or whether you don't; whether you arrive at your
destination or whether you reach somewhere else, or whether you never get
anywhere at all, you're always busy, and you never do anything in
particular; and when you've done it there's always something else to do, and
you can do it if you like, but you'd much better not."

September Surprises...

Computers aboard, again (was) September Surprises...

Greetings...

"Bob" wrote in message
...

Rather than buying 2x $400 things which are lovely to take into the
cockpit,

or not worry about getting wet if you take them ashore,

your language is difficult to understand.
CF-29s et al are bullet proof (sorta) as well as water proof (proven).
If they get dirty just HOZE them off...........

I'm not sure what's difficult to understand. You proposed I buy two
toughbooks to solve a HD problem, then compounded your error by suggesting I
take the HD (in my case, if the problem were what I was experiencing, the HD
would be questionable) out of a dead toughbook, stick it in another, and be
happy when I got the replacement computer, sans the defective drive which
I'd plucked from it, back from Toshiba after its failure.

Suggesting that I'd likely experience a dead toughbook isn't a ringing
endorsement...

Sounds like _your_ language is difficult to reason, if not understand :{))

OTOH, I understand your need to belittle me, and promote your agenda, by
misdirection, as I clearly stated that my problem was in the HD, and that I
had a solution to it.

Oh. I forgot. You just don't read for content, instead for targets. My
mistake. Given that you waded through my extremely long (as usual, I know)
long post solely to find something you could shoot at sorta illustrates my
point...

At least you could be like Wilbur and satirize while you're at it :{))

or their many
shortcomings

What short commings??????

Shortcomings for what I want to do with the computer at my nav station. I
have a 20" LCD display at my nav. Try that on a toughbook. I have a
full-sized, comfort (angled keys so I don't get carpal tunnel) keyboard
which fits my much-larger-than-typical hands, along with a mouse (ya, I know
I can connect a mouse to my toughbook if I had one). Ya, I know, I could
(maybe - don't know iif it has an output) hook up my screen to a TB, and
also my keyboard. But then, why bother having a TB??

FOTM is that I don't know what sort of ports a TB has, but I'd bet a bundle
it doesn't have what my computer does, discussed in the "Ping Larry" thread.
Mine has lots of comms, of which the TB doesn't (betting, here, not having
one in front of me), so that would fit directly into your question, making
the TB very short-comming :{)) - along with lots of other ports, to boot.

Note that I am not against Toughbooks, though, for the bells and
whistles,

Once again your language is equivical............ no bells and
whistles. just rock solid hardware.

I'd consider the ability to toss it or hose it, and have it come up working,
a bell and whistle as compared to others. However, as compared to the
Itronics, the two interesting B/Ws would be the built-in GPS and touch
screen, TBs presumed to also have WiFi. Please take discussions on this
point to my redirected thread on TBs and other extreme duty laptops.

As Ive said before.... most these guys here are 65 year old GEEKS who
have been out of the business for 20 years, and maybe at best sell
some dodads off a crappy boat to take an IRS Schedule C.
Find some one who actually works for a living and look at what they
are using. They aint got time to dick with geeky dreams used to fill
an other wise boring empty life. Stay away from those hobby/loss guy.

Most what guys here? I made reference to only one, who, best I can tell, is
still very active (Larry) - and has NEVER lived on a boat - who, up until
recently, made his entire living servicing electronics down to the component
level.

My vendor sells from his home business, not from a boat, and it definitely
is working for a living for him - which seems to have been productive, as he
recently moved from Birmingham to the beach in FL.

As to working for a living and using something computer-ish in it, the only
likely comparison would be something Roger would design, or larger. I'd bet
they don't have a toughbook at the helm, and quite likely not in the comm
center (radio shack, if you'd prefer).

We do have a laptop aboard, as backup. When (it's rarely been used that way)
it's not being a backup, it's Lydia's computer. Perhaps when it dies, we'd
investigate either a TB or IT - but the screens are notably smaller than
what's on hers.

As an aside, in the wanderings that this thread has taken, we went to a
larger chartplotter, replacing our RL70CRC with a C120. Better than double
the screen size, a product, solely, of our need for something which had a
larger display (old age ain't for sissies), so we didn't have to get our
face in it and squint when things got questionable.

So, while many will do just fine with 5" chartplotter screens, we're not
among them. It is what it is. I can't run a 4 minute mile, do 100 pushups
or 50 chinups, any more, either, but I'm still out here doing it, full
time...

L8R

Skip

--
Morgan 461 #2
SV Flying Pig KI4MPC
See our galleries at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery !
Follow us at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFlyingPigLog
and/or http://groups.google.com/group/flyingpiglog

The Society for the Preservation of Tithesis commends your ebriated
and scrutible use of delible and defatigable, which are gainly, sipid
and couth. We are gruntled and consolate that you have the ertia and
eptitude to choose such putably pensible tithesis, which we parage.

Stamp out Sesquipedalianism

BOb

Computers aboard, again (was) September Surprises...

On Mon, 4 Oct 2010 12:07:13 -0400, "Flying Pig"
wrote:

My vendor sells from his home business, not from a boat, and it definitely
is working for a living for him - which seems to have been productive, as he
recently moved from Birmingham to the beach in FL.

I can personally attest to the fact that Skip's PC vendor/builder
provides absolutely first class products and support. He has great
WiFi solutions also.

http://www.islandtimepc.com/

Just a *very* satisfied customer.

That said, the Panasonic Toughbook CF-29 is a darned good boat
computer also.

Toughbook?? Computers aboard, again (was) September Surprises...

WaIIy wrote:
On Mon, 4 Oct 2010 11:30:04 -0400, "Flying Pig"
wrote:

Hi, again,

As this is now a toughbook vs other hardy laptops discussion, I'll drop out,
and with hope, rename the thread so it doesn't confuse matters.

That said, I have nothing against toughbooks. It just has nothing to do
with my (presumably solved) challenges witih (apparent) hard drive failures.
Every time the computer has been back, it won't display any internal
troubles which could cause my experiences.

Y'all fight over whether toughbook will work at sea to your hearts' content.
I very much doubt I'll have any first-hand input :{))

L8R

Skip

Your boat, your computers, your life, your decisions.

Apparently what you do is working I can see (and enjoy) all of your
posts and they are correctly formatted.

We all know you're long-winded, that's part of your charm.

Yeah. There is a lot of life in Skips posts.

--

Richard Lamb

Computers aboard, again (was) September Surprises...

I'm not sure what's difficult to understand. *You proposed I buy two
toughbooks to solve a HD problem, then compounded your error by suggesting I
take the HD........

Your problme is THAT you have a HD problem!

Buy a computer designed and built robustly and you dont have those
problems. ANd when you do...... flip flop swap and youre plugged in
and running again in 20 seconds. Maybe Lydia wouldnt have scuttled
your boat whil you were sleeping on watch.... oh ya she was too so I
guess a functing chart ploter would serve no purpose.

Shortcomings for what I want to do with the computer at my nav station. *I
have a 20" LCD display at my nav. Try that on a toughbook.

Jesus H Christ Skip twenty inches ! ! ! Why the **** doint ya jsut
get a 36 inch wide screen plasma while youre at it.
Your gear choice is absolutly unbelievable !

You need some major brain adjustment Skip. Your reality syncros are
misaligned.

I would be willing to consult you back to reality. I work cheep: $180/
hour with a 2 hour minimum. Two hours will save you $1000s and 10,000s
of saved life hours in the next two years .

This one is free................. your technology quest will not keep
you safe.

Bob

September Surprises...

On Oct 4, 8:51*am, CaveLamb wrote:
wrote:
On Sun, 03 Oct 2010 19:56:14 -0500, CaveLamb
wrote:

Wayne.B wrote:
On Sun, 03 Oct 2010 18:21:25 -0500, CaveLamb
wrote:

Skip the computer and just use paper rather than deal with a sluggish computer
My favorite boat computer is a Toughbook that I bought used for $265
or so. * It's more than adequate for managing charts in BSB format,
browsing the web, reading EMAIL, etc., and it just keeps on ticking.

And last, though certainly not least, is the limited contrast / brightness.

How can you read that out in the cockpit?

I couldn't - and that was in the shade.

That must be why they use them outside on construction sites and for
Law enforcement work. They obviously don't need to be able to see the
display in daylight!

The toughbooks are specifically DAYLIGHT VIEWABLE.

http://www.amazon.com/Panasonic-Toug...Inch-Notebook/...

Advertising claims aside, I couldn't read it very well in the shade.

400:1 contrast ratio isn't anywhere up to date.

--

Richard Lamb

Dear Richard:

Here is something to consider operating a used CF29
When buying used most HDs are reformatted. DOing so removes the
Panasonic drivers. One required driver controlls the brightness
controll. With the driver installed use Ctrl + F1 or F2 for
brighness. With oout the Panisonic driver it dont work all that well
or not at all.

I hope this helps.....

My CF29 has excellent outside brightness.

Maybe I should get one of those 3D 53 inch plasma screens that SKip
has. NOw that would be fun............... for about 3 seconds :/

Bob

September Surprises...

Bob wrote:
On Oct 4, 8:51 am, CaveLamb wrote:
wrote:
On Sun, 03 Oct 2010 19:56:14 -0500, CaveLamb
wrote:
Wayne.B wrote:
On Sun, 03 Oct 2010 18:21:25 -0500, CaveLamb
wrote:
Skip the computer and just use paper rather than deal with a sluggish computer
My favorite boat computer is a Toughbook that I bought used for $265
or so. It's more than adequate for managing charts in BSB format,
browsing the web, reading EMAIL, etc., and it just keeps on ticking.
And last, though certainly not least, is the limited contrast / brightness.
How can you read that out in the cockpit?
I couldn't - and that was in the shade.
That must be why they use them outside on construction sites and for
Law enforcement work. They obviously don't need to be able to see the
display in daylight!
The toughbooks are specifically DAYLIGHT VIEWABLE.
http://www.amazon.com/Panasonic-Toug...Inch-Notebook/...
Advertising claims aside, I couldn't read it very well in the shade.

400:1 contrast ratio isn't anywhere up to date.

--

Richard Lamb

Dear Richard:

Here is something to consider operating a used CF29
When buying used most HDs are reformatted. DOing so removes the
Panasonic drivers. One required driver controlls the brightness
controll. With the driver installed use Ctrl + F1 or F2 for
brighness. With oout the Panisonic driver it dont work all that well
or not at all.

I hope this helps.....

My CF29 has excellent outside brightness.

Maybe I should get one of those 3D 53 inch plasma screens that SKip
has. NOw that would be fun............... for about 3 seconds :/

Bob

That may be the case, Bob.
It belongs to the Police Department, not me.
So I can't easily check that detail.
But I'll mention it to them.

Thanks

--

Richard Lamb

September Surprises...

Bob

That may be the case, Bob.
It belongs to the Police Department, not me.
So I can't easily check that detail.
But I'll mention it to them.

Thanks
Richard Lamb

Howdy Richard,
Glad to be of help. I did make one mistake in my earlier post. The
CF29 key commands for brightness control is: (blue key) Fn not what I
posted originally as Ctrl. I apologize for that mistake. The blue key
Fn is used to control several function keys including brightness.

I hope you get some good time on the water where ever you may be. Fall
in the PNW is fantastic right now :)

Bob

refrigerators vs CPUs, et. al. (Was) September Surprises...

wrote in message
...

Especially on a sailboat, power draw is a big consideration. Fast
processors draw a TON more electricity, as do unecessarily large
displays. What Cavelamb is claiming he HAS to have will be a bigger
power drain than a decent refrigerator. How is he going to provide
that much power on a small sailboat?

What kind of refrigerator do you run, and for how long? Most Danfoss
compressors I know about pull about 6 amps at full speed.

My high powered rig (with 15w, soon to be 2.5w HD) pulls about 2.5. Lydia's
Laptop pulls (through the brick, of course) close to 5. I ditched my
SeaTech laptop cuz it drew over 10.

My screen, for which I will be aggressively seeking an LED 12V replacment
when I have to be ashore again for a wedding, pulls about 2.5 in active
mode.

So, yes, my full rig might be about the same as the refrigeration, both
running full load. Fortunately, neither run full time. My computer
(all-in), fortunately, doesn't use nearly as much as my refrigeration (yes,
I'm spoiled there, too), even in tropical waters and heat, because my
computer's on for a few hours, not 24/7. If we were in northern waters, I'm
sure they might be about equal (currently, that is, before my HD - now in
the Bahamas but not yet in my hands - savings, and before my LED screen
savings, as yet unrealized, of course). As to how we supply all that, we
have an 880AH 4xL16HC bank fed by 370W of solar and a KISS wind generator,
making 10 amps as I type (solar nothing, as it's night here, but typically
15-25A during the day), cuz the breeze is light; if it ever gets to the
forecasted 20-25, it will be more like 20-25A, 24/7. Both do very well in
the tropics.

Far afield from even the migrations of this thread, we have a keel cooler, a
smart speed controller (makes it run slower, thus less amps, as needed/not
needed), and digital thermostats in both reefer and freezer; very efficient.
Freezer kept at 8, reefer at 32 (nominal; a bit warmer on the far side top,
with the veggies, cold right next to the separation, where we keep our
drinking stuff - the recycled gatorade gallon jug full of water nearly
always has ice in it from being right in front of the spillover fan; it
makes our lemonade and, when we get some more, our Gatorade mix - always icy
cold, as is the coke and beer we occasionally treat ourselves to, which sits
below it)...

L8R

Skip, enjoying being able to see stuff large, and watch our movies in
wide-screen. No, I don't have a cedar bucket, either, and took out the
lectra-sans which came with the boat, mostly on a power issue basis, but I
DO have flush toilets :{))

--
Morgan 461 #2
SV Flying Pig KI4MPC
See our galleries at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery!
Follow us at http://groups.google.com/group/flyingpiglog and/or
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFlyingPigLog

"Believe me, my young friend, there is *nothing*-absolutely nothing-half so
much worth doing as simply messing, messing-about-in-boats; messing about in
boats-or *with* boats.
In or out of 'em, it doesn't matter. Nothing seems really to matter, that's
the charm of it.
Whether you get away, or whether you don't; whether you arrive at your
destination or whether you reach somewhere else, or whether you never get
anywhere at all, you're always busy, and you never do anything in
particular; and when you've done it there's always something else to do, and
you can do it if you like, but you'd much better not."

September Surprises...

Bob wrote:
Bob

That may be the case, Bob.
It belongs to the Police Department, not me.
So I can't easily check that detail.
But I'll mention it to them.

Thanks
Richard Lamb

Howdy Richard,
Glad to be of help. I did make one mistake in my earlier post. The
CF29 key commands for brightness control is: (blue key) Fn not what I
posted originally as Ctrl. I apologize for that mistake. The blue key
Fn is used to control several function keys including brightness.

I hope you get some good time on the water where ever you may be. Fall
in the PNW is fantastic right now :)

Bob

Sunday was 20-25k with some serious gusts and 3 foot waves.

Not bad for a little old 98000 acre lake.

I had guests (always better then) so kept her under reefed main.
Wish I had a blade jib for those conditions.
Maybe some day?

--

Richard Lamb

September Surprises...

wrote:
On Tue, 5 Oct 2010 13:39:35 -0700 (PDT), Bob
wrote:

On Oct 4, 8:51 am, CaveLamb wrote:
wrote:
On Sun, 03 Oct 2010 19:56:14 -0500, CaveLamb
wrote:
Wayne.B wrote:
On Sun, 03 Oct 2010 18:21:25 -0500, CaveLamb
wrote:
Skip the computer and just use paper rather than deal with a sluggish computer
My favorite boat computer is a Toughbook that I bought used for $265
or so. It's more than adequate for managing charts in BSB format,
browsing the web, reading EMAIL, etc., and it just keeps on ticking.
And last, though certainly not least, is the limited contrast / brightness.
How can you read that out in the cockpit?
I couldn't - and that was in the shade.
That must be why they use them outside on construction sites and for
Law enforcement work. They obviously don't need to be able to see the
display in daylight!
The toughbooks are specifically DAYLIGHT VIEWABLE.
http://www.amazon.com/Panasonic-Toug...Inch-Notebook/...
Advertising claims aside, I couldn't read it very well in the shade.

400:1 contrast ratio isn't anywhere up to date.

--

Richard Lamb

Dear Richard:

Here is something to consider operating a used CF29
When buying used most HDs are reformatted. DOing so removes the
Panasonic drivers. One required driver controlls the brightness
controll. With the driver installed use Ctrl + F1 or F2 for
brighness. With oout the Panisonic driver it dont work all that well
or not at all.

I hope this helps.....

My CF29 has excellent outside brightness.

Maybe I should get one of those 3D 53 inch plasma screens that SKip
has. NOw that would be fun............... for about 3 seconds :/

Bob

Especially on a sailboat, power draw is a big consideration. Fast
processors draw a TON more electricity, as do unecessarily large
displays. What Cavelamb is claiming he HAS to have will be a bigger
power drain than a decent refrigerator. How is he going to provide
that much power on a small sailboat?

I don't HAVE to have it - just WANT it.

But your rant is out of date, Dog.

http://www.logicsupply.com/products/keex_2030

These are FANLESS systems.
They don't make that much heat, ergo don't pull that much current.

The display does, of course, but that's the same screen used for
movies, maps, chartplotter, etc.

I choose a VGA monitor rather than a TV because the extra circuitry
in the TV (tuner) pulls trons too. Monitors are significantly lower
draw.

And I'm still looking for a 12 volt drive monitor - just to lose the
20% from the inverter.

--

Richard Lamb

September Surprises...

http://www.crunchgear.com/2008/11/04...der-kit-a1000/

Built around a VIA Esther (C7) CPU clocked at 1 GHz the Pico can accomplish many
smaller tasks just fine. Geekbench rating for this kit was 384. Note: I wouldn’t
use this to recode video, but it’s perfect as a mini media center for a car or
for a home web server. One of the most attractive features is the low power
consumption. With power consumption around 13 Watts (20W loaded) the Pico will
cost less than $25 to run non-stop for a year.

Bottom Line
While this is not going to break any compute records, it is a solid platform to
build upon.

September Surprises...

wrote:
On Tue, 05 Oct 2010 22:55:36 -0500, CaveLamb
wrote:

http://www.crunchgear.com/2008/11/04...der-kit-a1000/

Built around a VIA Esther (C7) CPU clocked at 1 GHz the Pico can accomplish many
smaller tasks just fine. Geekbench rating for this kit was 384. Note: I wouldn’t
use this to recode video, but it’s perfect as a mini media center for a car or
for a home web server. One of the most attractive features is the low power
consumption. With power consumption around 13 Watts (20W loaded) the Pico will
cost less than $25 to run non-stop for a year.

Bottom Line
While this is not going to break any compute records, it is a solid platform to
build upon.

Slower than a toughbook, which can be bought including a waterproof 12
volt display and keyboard for about $300.

What will it cost to piece together this SLOWER system, including a
display? What will it all draw collectively?

So how fast is you Tuffy?

(And please keep in mind - that one IS slower than the minis.

--

Richard Lamb

September Surprises...