Ping Larry
 

Any advice on a boat computer? I think you bought a notebook a while
back. Good , bad, ugly?
Thanks
G

Ping Larry
 

Gordon wrote:
Any advice on a boat computer? I think you bought a notebook a while
back. Good , bad, ugly?
Thanks
G

We'll have to wait to see what Lary says.

I've been leaning toward a mini-ITX fanless system - with a fan in the case
and a 12 volt power supply.

Heat is nearly as bad for electronics as water.
So we are running in a hostile environment.

The other issue is mounting. An ITX case is small and can be tucked in
almost any corner. The display can be wall mounted.
No need to take up precious horizontal filing space.

The screen is still a problem for me.
I've yet to find one at a reasonable price that runs on 12 volts.




--

Richard Lamb

Ping Larry
 

In article ,
CaveLamb wrote:

Gordon wrote:
Any advice on a boat computer? I think you bought a notebook a while
back. Good , bad, ugly?
Thanks
G

We'll have to wait to see what Lary says.

I've been leaning toward a mini-ITX fanless system - with a fan in the case
and a 12 volt power supply.

Heat is nearly as bad for electronics as water.
So we are running in a hostile environment.

The other issue is mounting. An ITX case is small and can be tucked in
almost any corner. The display can be wall mounted.
No need to take up precious horizontal filing space.

The screen is still a problem for me.
I've yet to find one at a reasonable price that runs on 12 volts.

Get yourself a used Toughbook, and call it good....

--
Bruce in Alaska add path before the @ for email

Ping Larry
 

Hi, Richard, Gordon, Larry, Bob (cc'd), et. al...

On Sep 15, 6:30*pm, CaveLamb wrote:
Gordon wrote:
* Any advice on a boat computer? I think you bought a notebook a while
back. Good , bad, ugly?
*Thanks
*G

We'll have to wait to see what Lary says.

I've been leaning toward a mini-ITX fanless system - with a fan in the case
and a 12 volt power supply.

Heat is nearly as bad for electronics as water.
So we are running in a hostile environment.

The other issue is mounting. *An ITX case is small and can be tucked in
almost any corner. *The display can be wall mounted.
No need to take up precious horizontal filing space.

The screen is still a problem for me.
I've yet to find one at a reasonable price that runs on 12 volts.

--

Richard Lamb

If you're a geek, you can probably build one like Bob Stewart, at
islandtimepc.com did for me (I'm a geek, but his CS is so amazing,
including getting me up and running in WiFi before I was even a
customer, at great personal effort on his part, when legions of
supposedly knowledgeable folks in several newsgroups and forums could
not, that I felt I really needed to give him the business - and you
already know how I feel about his WiFi setup which I use now). Mine
has 8xUSB (2 front), 5xserial, 2xLAN, hdmi, HDI, VGA, a dedicated
filtered 12V out (to power my 12V devices that won't run on boat
power, like my HDs - 1x 500G, 1T, 2x 2T, and my Vonage phone
chargers), front and back sound in-outs plus line in on the back, PS2
mouse and keyboard inputs and firewire (front). Dual processor 2GHz,
DVDRW, 500G 2.5" SATA, 4G RAM (ya, I know, windoze doesn't support
more than a little more than 3, but the parity/dupe in 2 chips made
sense). About 2.5A, unless my conversion to 2.5" from 3.5" drive (in
about 2 weeks), with their 2.5W vs 15W 5V draw makes a big difference
(dunno until it's installed and can check the in-use draw). He
includes a 135W 19.2V brick for when you carry it ashore, as I do, and
the pigtail for boat power. Of course, an OS (mine is XP), and all
the usual OEM add-ons for playing with.

LED monitors are mostly 12V, but require - if they have provision for
it at all - the newer, larger (vs the common 100MM VESA) mounts if you
want it on the wall. Not all that pricey. Some don't have removable
bases; that's a must because we watch our movies by moving the screen
from the Nav to a shelf, switching from HDI to VGA (nav station has
the HDI cable; aside from my current mouse/keyboard, which is IR and
has a puck on a USB wire, you see no wires in my installation),
picking up the VGA cord from under when we raise the shelf from a seat
back to shelf. My screen and (laser - inkjets run!) printer are all
that remain AC at the moment, and I'll seriously shop for an LED
screen when I go ashore again for a wedding in the spring. Router,
WiFi and computer run on house power (10.5-18.5V); I have a separate
5V PS for my powered hub and Vonage base. The only thing you see of
our computer is about 2.5"x4" out from our bulkhead of the 11.5"
square x 2.5" tall case, and even that's partly hidden under the
screen, which stands out from the wall.

You may not require all that functionality, but I did, so he built it
that way. Drop him a line at , or go to his
website and get his phone number - he answers his own phone - and give
him a call. Let him know what you want in a box, and he'll tell you
how much it will be...

OTOH, if you want something you can drop in the ocean or take a
boarding wave while you've got it topside for your nav program like a
boater I met does, check out Itronix laptops which are coming back
from Iraq, on eBay. Touchscreen, waterproof, sandproof, dropproof,
swappable HDs, GPS and WiFi, yada yada (see prior discussion in this
space about them)...

L8R

Skip

Ping Larry
 

In article , wrote:
All your boat computer problems can be solved

.... by chucking it all over the side and getting the paper charts out
(those are the ones that the grand-kids used to cover their school
books), winding up your wrist watch, and dusting off the sextant.

VBG :)

Justin.

No, I'm not at all serious about that. I wouldn't travel anywhere
without at least two GPS devices. However, should I cross an ocean then
I would certainly have a sextant-plus-reduction-tables as a back-up.

--
Justin C, by the sea.

Ping Larry
 

Hi Skip,

Yeah, I think we're on the same wavelength.
That's pretty much the kind of system I'm specing out for Temptress.
We don't have your power budget, being so much smaller, but it pretty
much takes that kind of horsepower to do heavy graphics processing...
Like moving around a chart (with 2 or more open simultaneously)
That's one strong reason for dual (or more?) displays.

I have eight USP ports on my desktop system, with 3 or 4 hubs (who
knows for sure any more - I'm not going back there!)
That's just for a home computer.
No GPS, wind and water sensors, depth scanner, etc.

And so the question arises - how to keep USB connections - connected?
Even on this stationary box they tend to work lose over time.

Richard


PS:

Strange how it works out that way so often.
I no sooner asked about 12 volt monitors -
than I came across one - at the local CVS, of all places.

Craig 13" TV, but has all kinds of inputs (including VGA).
$149.99 - on sale for $99.99

I don't know how well it works.
No brightness, contrast or field of view numbers on the box.
But it did claim 8ms update rate.

And it uses a 12v wall wart (2.5A) for power!

Paradise is no inverters?


Skip Gundlach wrote:
Hi, Richard, Gordon, Larry, Bob (cc'd), et. al...



If you're a geek, you can probably build one like Bob Stewart, at
islandtimepc.com did for me (I'm a geek, but his CS is so amazing,
including getting me up and running in WiFi before I was even a
customer, at great personal effort on his part, when legions of
supposedly knowledgeable folks in several newsgroups and forums could
not, that I felt I really needed to give him the business - and you
already know how I feel about his WiFi setup which I use now). Mine
has 8xUSB (2 front), 5xserial, 2xLAN, hdmi, HDI, VGA, a dedicated
filtered 12V out (to power my 12V devices that won't run on boat
power, like my HDs - 1x 500G, 1T, 2x 2T, and my Vonage phone
chargers), front and back sound in-outs plus line in on the back, PS2
mouse and keyboard inputs and firewire (front). Dual processor 2GHz,
DVDRW, 500G 2.5" SATA, 4G RAM (ya, I know, windoze doesn't support
more than a little more than 3, but the parity/dupe in 2 chips made
sense). About 2.5A, unless my conversion to 2.5" from 3.5" drive (in
about 2 weeks), with their 2.5W vs 15W 5V draw makes a big difference
(dunno until it's installed and can check the in-use draw). He
includes a 135W 19.2V brick for when you carry it ashore, as I do, and
the pigtail for boat power. Of course, an OS (mine is XP), and all
the usual OEM add-ons for playing with.

LED monitors are mostly 12V, but require - if they have provision for
it at all - the newer, larger (vs the common 100MM VESA) mounts if you
want it on the wall. Not all that pricey. Some don't have removable
bases; that's a must because we watch our movies by moving the screen
from the Nav to a shelf, switching from HDI to VGA (nav station has
the HDI cable; aside from my current mouse/keyboard, which is IR and
has a puck on a USB wire, you see no wires in my installation),
picking up the VGA cord from under when we raise the shelf from a seat
back to shelf. My screen and (laser - inkjets run!) printer are all
that remain AC at the moment, and I'll seriously shop for an LED
screen when I go ashore again for a wedding in the spring. Router,
WiFi and computer run on house power (10.5-18.5V); I have a separate
5V PS for my powered hub and Vonage base. The only thing you see of
our computer is about 2.5"x4" out from our bulkhead of the 11.5"
square x 2.5" tall case, and even that's partly hidden under the
screen, which stands out from the wall.

You may not require all that functionality, but I did, so he built it
that way. Drop him a line at , or go to his
website and get his phone number - he answers his own phone - and give
him a call. Let him know what you want in a box, and he'll tell you
how much it will be...

OTOH, if you want something you can drop in the ocean or take a
boarding wave while you've got it topside for your nav program like a
boater I met does, check out Itronix laptops which are coming back
from Iraq, on eBay. Touchscreen, waterproof, sandproof, dropproof,
swappable HDs, GPS and WiFi, yada yada (see prior discussion in this
space about them)...

L8R

Skip


--

Richard Lamb

Ping Larry
 

Ping Larry
 

On Fri, 17 Sep 2010 00:51:50 +0100, Justin C
wrote:

In article , wrote:
All your boat computer problems can be solved

... by chucking it all over the side and getting the paper charts out
(those are the ones that the grand-kids used to cover their school
books), winding up your wrist watch, and dusting off the sextant.

VBG :)

Justin.

No, I'm not at all serious about that. I wouldn't travel anywhere
without at least two GPS devices. However, should I cross an ocean then
I would certainly have a sextant-plus-reduction-tables as a back-up.


And if you drop the sextant over board? Break a mirror?

Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)

Ping Larry
 

In article , Bruce in Bangkok wrote:
On Fri, 17 Sep 2010 00:51:50 +0100, Justin C
wrote:

In article , wrote:
All your boat computer problems can be solved

... by chucking it all over the side and getting the paper charts out
(those are the ones that the grand-kids used to cover their school
books), winding up your wrist watch, and dusting off the sextant.

VBG :)

Justin.

No, I'm not at all serious about that. I wouldn't travel anywhere
without at least two GPS devices. However, should I cross an ocean then
I would certainly have a sextant-plus-reduction-tables as a back-up.


And if you drop the sextant over board? Break a mirror?

Awwww, c'mon Bruce, I did put a VBG and a smiley. I'm not advocating a
no-tech ocean crossing, and a GPS gives a much quicker and more accurate
fix than most could manage with a sextant. You have got a sense of
humour haven't you? BTW, my reference to the mast-top windage of your
4ft parabola antenna was not serious either.

Perhaps my British humour is off at the moment, or maybe I didn't catch
you on a good day. I'll try to remember to add more smilies in future.

Have a good day.

Justin.

--
Justin C, by the sea.

Ping Larry
 

On Thu, 16 Sep 2010 20:10:02 -0500, CaveLamb
wrote:

wrote:
On Wed, 15 Sep 2010 17:30:55 -0500, CaveLamb
wrote:

Gordon wrote:
Any advice on a boat computer? I think you bought a notebook a while
back. Good , bad, ugly?
Thanks
G
We'll have to wait to see what Lary says.

I've been leaning toward a mini-ITX fanless system - with a fan in the case
and a 12 volt power supply.

Heat is nearly as bad for electronics as water.
So we are running in a hostile environment.

The other issue is mounting. An ITX case is small and can be tucked in
almost any corner. The display can be wall mounted.
No need to take up precious horizontal filing space.

The screen is still a problem for me.
I've yet to find one at a reasonable price that runs on 12 volts.

All your boat computer problems can be solved with an old Panasonic
Toughbook. You can find a CF-28 or CF29 very cheaply on Ebay. They
were designed to be used by contractors on building sites in the rain
and mud, and they are also popular with Law Enforcement. You can spill
as many cups of coffee as you wish on the screen and keyboard without
worry. The screen is readable in sunlight, and they are drop tested 6
feet onto concrete.

The models I mentioned are very common, and will run Windows XP or 98



My friend has a couple of them.
Our common opinion is that they are simply too slow for the heavy graphics
load for charts.

But they are, indeed, Tough!


Good Lord! And I ran two different chartplotter applications on an OLD
Toshiba with no problems at all (one at a time :-). I now run it on a
Eee with solid state memory now with no noticeable delay.

Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)

Ping Larry
 

On Fri, 17 Sep 2010 10:02:00 +0100, Justin C
wrote:

In article , Bruce in Bangkok wrote:
On Fri, 17 Sep 2010 00:51:50 +0100, Justin C
wrote:

In article , wrote:
All your boat computer problems can be solved

... by chucking it all over the side and getting the paper charts out
(those are the ones that the grand-kids used to cover their school
books), winding up your wrist watch, and dusting off the sextant.

VBG :)

Justin.

No, I'm not at all serious about that. I wouldn't travel anywhere
without at least two GPS devices. However, should I cross an ocean then
I would certainly have a sextant-plus-reduction-tables as a back-up.


And if you drop the sextant over board? Break a mirror?

Awwww, c'mon Bruce, I did put a VBG and a smiley. I'm not advocating a
no-tech ocean crossing, and a GPS gives a much quicker and more accurate
fix than most could manage with a sextant. You have got a sense of
humour haven't you? BTW, my reference to the mast-top windage of your
4ft parabola antenna was not serious either.

Perhaps my British humour is off at the moment, or maybe I didn't catch
you on a good day. I'll try to remember to add more smilies in future.

Have a good day.

Justin.


The last owner, IIRC, of Jester, after his last cross Atlantic race
(the last one he finished) was asked what sort of navigation he used -
he was a past Lecturer on navigation at the RN school - he replied
that he used GPS but did take a noon sight one day and worked out his
position...... using the GPS for the time signal :-)

But your right, I do carry paper charts and while I don't mark a
position I do write down L & L every hour. Reckoned that if the
'letric Navigation dies I will be able to at least figure out a
compass course to somewhere :-)

Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)

Ping Larry
 

Ping Larry
 

On Sep 15, 9:29*am, Gordon wrote:
* *Any advice on a boat computer? I think you bought a notebook a while
back. Good , bad, ugly?
* Thanks
* G


I have Panasonic toughbook CF-29. Bought it new and it has worked
flawlessly for over 5 years. Im using it now.
For 14 months I drug it across airports from MSY to PDX and all over
the GOM on a skanky 4 point anchor boat while workign as an AB. It got
rained on slid of my lap and bounced across a steel deck. It works
great.

Get used or refurb for $450. For that price Id buy two. everything
else is for sissys.
Bob

Ping Larry
 

On Fri, 17 Sep 2010 07:12:09 -0500, CaveLamb
wrote:

wrote:
On Thu, 16 Sep 2010 20:10:02 -0500, CaveLamb
wrote:

wrote:
On Wed, 15 Sep 2010 17:30:55 -0500, CaveLamb
wrote:

Gordon wrote:
Any advice on a boat computer? I think you bought a notebook a while
back. Good , bad, ugly?
Thanks
G
We'll have to wait to see what Lary says.

I've been leaning toward a mini-ITX fanless system - with a fan in the case
and a 12 volt power supply.

Heat is nearly as bad for electronics as water.
So we are running in a hostile environment.

The other issue is mounting. An ITX case is small and can be tucked in
almost any corner. The display can be wall mounted.
No need to take up precious horizontal filing space.

The screen is still a problem for me.
I've yet to find one at a reasonable price that runs on 12 volts.
All your boat computer problems can be solved with an old Panasonic
Toughbook. You can find a CF-28 or CF29 very cheaply on Ebay. They
were designed to be used by contractors on building sites in the rain
and mud, and they are also popular with Law Enforcement. You can spill
as many cups of coffee as you wish on the screen and keyboard without
worry. The screen is readable in sunlight, and they are drop tested 6
feet onto concrete.

The models I mentioned are very common, and will run Windows XP or 98


My friend has a couple of them.
Our common opinion is that they are simply too slow for the heavy graphics
load for charts.

But they are, indeed, Tough!

???

Are you editing video or something?

Yeah, sometime... :)

You got time to edit video ... onna boat?

Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)

Ping Larry
 

Bruce in Bangkok wrote:

???

Are you editing video or something?
Yeah, sometime... :)

You got time to edit video ... onna boat?

Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)


Well it's not like you have to sit there and watch it...

--

Richard Lamb

Ping Larry
 

On Fri, 17 Sep 2010 21:10:55 -0500, CaveLamb
wrote:

Bruce in Bangkok wrote:

???

Are you editing video or something?
Yeah, sometime... :)

You got time to edit video ... onna boat?

Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)


Well it's not like you have to sit there and watch it...


Probably comes of having a auto-pilot. Leads to all kind of lax
living.


Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)

Ping Larry
 

Bruce in Bangkok wrote:
On Fri, 17 Sep 2010 21:10:55 -0500, CaveLamb
wrote:

Bruce in Bangkok wrote:

???

Are you editing video or something?
Yeah, sometime... :)
You got time to edit video ... onna boat?

Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)

Well it's not like you have to sit there and watch it...


Probably comes of having a auto-pilot. Leads to all kind of lax
living.


Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)

LOL!

--

Richard Lamb

Ping Larry
 

I don't know why you bother to look for DC driven display.. They will be very expensive and as you know rare. I have purchased a
sinusoidal DC to AC converter. It is high quality, electrically quiet and 88% efficient. Your LCD screen needs about 35 watts.
What problem?
Steve

"CaveLamb" wrote in message ...
Gordon wrote:
Any advice on a boat computer? I think you bought a notebook a while back. Good , bad, ugly?
Thanks
G

We'll have to wait to see what Lary says.

I've been leaning toward a mini-ITX fanless system - with a fan in the case
and a 12 volt power supply.

Heat is nearly as bad for electronics as water.
So we are running in a hostile environment.

The other issue is mounting. An ITX case is small and can be tucked in
almost any corner. The display can be wall mounted.
No need to take up precious horizontal filing space.

The screen is still a problem for me.
I've yet to find one at a reasonable price that runs on 12 volts.




--

Richard Lamb

Ping Larry
 

Steve Lusardi wrote:
I don't know why you bother to look for DC driven display.. They will be
very expensive and as you know rare. I have purchased a sinusoidal DC to
AC converter. It is high quality, electrically quiet and 88% efficient.
Your LCD screen needs about 35 watts. What problem?
Steve


I take your point, Steve.
And yes, economics do have an important part to play here.

But my boat doesn't have a diesel with a big alternator to recharge the
battery. So we are very frugal with our 'trons.

That 10 or 12% difference over a few hours a day can make a difference.


--

Richard Lamb

Ping Larry
 

On Sun, 19 Sep 2010 17:49:16 +0200, "Steve Lusardi"
wrote:

I don't know why you bother to look for DC driven display.. They will be very expensive and as you know rare. I have purchased a
sinusoidal DC to AC converter. It is high quality, electrically quiet and 88% efficient. Your LCD screen needs about 35 watts.
What problem?
Steve

"CaveLamb" wrote in message ...
Gordon wrote:
Any advice on a boat computer? I think you bought a notebook a while back. Good , bad, ugly?
Thanks
G

We'll have to wait to see what Lary says.

I've been leaning toward a mini-ITX fanless system - with a fan in the case
and a 12 volt power supply.

Heat is nearly as bad for electronics as water.
So we are running in a hostile environment.

The other issue is mounting. An ITX case is small and can be tucked in
almost any corner. The display can be wall mounted.
No need to take up precious horizontal filing space.

The screen is still a problem for me.
I've yet to find one at a reasonable price that runs on 12 volts.

--

Richard Lamb



The first flat screen TV's I saw all were 12VDC. Has a brick power
supply like a laptops. Now they all have built in ... progress I
guess.

I wonder whether they are still 12 VDC internally?

Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)

Ping Larry
 

On Sun, 19 Sep 2010 11:55:11 -0500, CaveLamb
wrote:

Steve Lusardi wrote:
I don't know why you bother to look for DC driven display.. They will be
very expensive and as you know rare. I have purchased a sinusoidal DC to
AC converter. It is high quality, electrically quiet and 88% efficient.
Your LCD screen needs about 35 watts. What problem?
Steve


I take your point, Steve.
And yes, economics do have an important part to play here.

But my boat doesn't have a diesel with a big alternator to recharge the
battery. So we are very frugal with our 'trons.

That 10 or 12% difference over a few hours a day can make a difference.

Is it possible to buy an outboard with a generator large enough to
charge batteries?

Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)

Ping Larry
 

Bruce in Bangkok wrote:
On Sun, 19 Sep 2010 11:55:11 -0500, CaveLamb
wrote:

Steve Lusardi wrote:
I don't know why you bother to look for DC driven display.. They will be
very expensive and as you know rare. I have purchased a sinusoidal DC to
AC converter. It is high quality, electrically quiet and 88% efficient.
Your LCD screen needs about 35 watts. What problem?
Steve

I take your point, Steve.
And yes, economics do have an important part to play here.

But my boat doesn't have a diesel with a big alternator to recharge the
battery. So we are very frugal with our 'trons.

That 10 or 12% difference over a few hours a day can make a difference.

Is it possible to buy an outboard with a generator large enough to
charge batteries?

Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)


I don't think so, Bruce.
The largest seems to be about 6 amps.

But a small generator would do it.

Know of any small 12 volt only gen sets?
(I think the manufacturers are missing a niche here)


--

Richard Lamb

Ping Larry
 

Bruce in Bangkok wrote:
On Sun, 19 Sep 2010 17:49:16 +0200, "Steve Lusardi"
wrote:

I don't know why you bother to look for DC driven display.. They will be very expensive and as you know rare. I have purchased a
sinusoidal DC to AC converter. It is high quality, electrically quiet and 88% efficient. Your LCD screen needs about 35 watts.
What problem?
Steve

"CaveLamb" wrote in message ...
Gordon wrote:
Any advice on a boat computer? I think you bought a notebook a while back. Good , bad, ugly?
Thanks
G
We'll have to wait to see what Lary says.

I've been leaning toward a mini-ITX fanless system - with a fan in the case
and a 12 volt power supply.

Heat is nearly as bad for electronics as water.
So we are running in a hostile environment.

The other issue is mounting. An ITX case is small and can be tucked in
almost any corner. The display can be wall mounted.
No need to take up precious horizontal filing space.

The screen is still a problem for me.
I've yet to find one at a reasonable price that runs on 12 volts.

--

Richard Lamb



The first flat screen TV's I saw all were 12VDC. Has a brick power
supply like a laptops. Now they all have built in ... progress I
guess.

I wonder whether they are still 12 VDC internally?

Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)


I actually have one of those early ones.
It's a Phillips flat screen 4:3.
But the wall wart makes 60 VDC - not 12.



--

Richard Lamb

Ping Larry
 

On Sun, 19 Sep 2010 23:35:24 -0500, CaveLamb
wrote:

Bruce in Bangkok wrote:
On Sun, 19 Sep 2010 11:55:11 -0500, CaveLamb
wrote:

Steve Lusardi wrote:
I don't know why you bother to look for DC driven display.. They will be
very expensive and as you know rare. I have purchased a sinusoidal DC to
AC converter. It is high quality, electrically quiet and 88% efficient.
Your LCD screen needs about 35 watts. What problem?
Steve

I take your point, Steve.
And yes, economics do have an important part to play here.

But my boat doesn't have a diesel with a big alternator to recharge the
battery. So we are very frugal with our 'trons.

That 10 or 12% difference over a few hours a day can make a difference.

Is it possible to buy an outboard with a generator large enough to
charge batteries?

Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)


I don't think so, Bruce.
The largest seems to be about 6 amps.

But a small generator would do it.

Know of any small 12 volt only gen sets?
(I think the manufacturers are missing a niche here)

I don't know about back there but they are fairly common here. I think
that most of them are actually 220 VAC generators with a rectified
circuit but they do charge batteries.

If you got a spare quid you might look into solar panels. I somehow
get the impression that most of your sailing is a week-end sort of
thing and a solar panel, or two, would certainly keep your batteries
charged.... as long as the sun shines.

Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)

Ping Larry
 

On Sun, 19 Sep 2010 23:37:18 -0500, CaveLamb
wrote:

Bruce in Bangkok wrote:
On Sun, 19 Sep 2010 17:49:16 +0200, "Steve Lusardi"
wrote:

I don't know why you bother to look for DC driven display.. They will be very expensive and as you know rare. I have purchased a
sinusoidal DC to AC converter. It is high quality, electrically quiet and 88% efficient. Your LCD screen needs about 35 watts.
What problem?
Steve

"CaveLamb" wrote in message ...
Gordon wrote:
Any advice on a boat computer? I think you bought a notebook a while back. Good , bad, ugly?
Thanks
G
We'll have to wait to see what Lary says.

I've been leaning toward a mini-ITX fanless system - with a fan in the case
and a 12 volt power supply.

Heat is nearly as bad for electronics as water.
So we are running in a hostile environment.

The other issue is mounting. An ITX case is small and can be tucked in
almost any corner. The display can be wall mounted.
No need to take up precious horizontal filing space.

The screen is still a problem for me.
I've yet to find one at a reasonable price that runs on 12 volts.

--

Richard Lamb



The first flat screen TV's I saw all were 12VDC. Has a brick power
supply like a laptops. Now they all have built in ... progress I
guess.

I wonder whether they are still 12 VDC internally?

Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)


I actually have one of those early ones.
It's a Phillips flat screen 4:3.
But the wall wart makes 60 VDC - not 12.

I was sure that I remembered 12 volts..... old age, I guess.

You can get small inverters to make 110 from your batteries. They do
vary a lot in efficiency so it is worth while doing some checking
before you buy, but I used one for years to power a Toshiba laptop
that was my nav system.

Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)

Ping Larry
 

But a small generator would do it.

Know of any small 12 volt only gen sets?
(I think the manufacturers are missing a niche here)

I don't know about back there but they are fairly common here. I think
that most of them are actually 220 VAC generators with a rectified
circuit but they do charge batteries.

There are scads of those kind on the market.
But even the small ones are pretty fair sized - and pricey.
There is no real technical reason one couldn't make a 12 volt gas powered
charger no bigger than a weed-whacker motor.
(BTW, the 4 stroke versions are pretty quiet)



If you got a spare quid you might look into solar panels. I somehow
get the impression that most of your sailing is a week-end sort of
thing and a solar panel, or two, would certainly keep your batteries
charged.... as long as the sun shines.

That's true for now.
The marina has AC power, so keeping batteries topped off is no problem.
But a couple of days out of the marina gets to be a challenge.

I've converted most of the lights to LEDs.

The real current hogs are the pumps.
Like the pressure water system and wash down pump.

I have a couple of solar panels - 5 and 15 watts.
But I'm not quite sure how to work them with the existing battery charger.



Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)


--

Richard Lamb

Ping Larry
 

On Mon, 20 Sep 2010 08:10:32 -0500, CaveLamb
wrote:


But a small generator would do it.

Know of any small 12 volt only gen sets?
(I think the manufacturers are missing a niche here)

I don't know about back there but they are fairly common here. I think
that most of them are actually 220 VAC generators with a rectified
circuit but they do charge batteries.

There are scads of those kind on the market.
But even the small ones are pretty fair sized - and pricey.
There is no real technical reason one couldn't make a 12 volt gas powered
charger no bigger than a weed-whacker motor.
(BTW, the 4 stroke versions are pretty quiet)



If you got a spare quid you might look into solar panels. I somehow
get the impression that most of your sailing is a week-end sort of
thing and a solar panel, or two, would certainly keep your batteries
charged.... as long as the sun shines.

That's true for now.
The marina has AC power, so keeping batteries topped off is no problem.
But a couple of days out of the marina gets to be a challenge.

I've converted most of the lights to LEDs.

The real current hogs are the pumps.
Like the pressure water system and wash down pump.

I have a couple of solar panels - 5 and 15 watts.
But I'm not quite sure how to work them with the existing battery charger.



Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)

You can buy 1, 2, etc., watt inverters here pretty cheaply. Of course
they are Chinese made and vary in quality, and efficiency, but still
pretty good bang for the buck.

The solar panels connect to the batteries. There are a number of
Gotchas though.

You need to be sure that the solar panels have a diode incorporated in
them to prevent reverse current flow. If yours are fairly recent they
likely do but still, take the time to check them.

Unless your panels are extremely small it is possible, if left
connected, for them to boil your batteries and you'll come back to the
boat after a month away and find the batteries dry.... and require
replacing. The answer is install a Solar Panel Regulator. Reasonable
in price and effective. Another method is to simply cover the solar
panels with a dark cover - black garbage bags will work. Of course if
you do then nothing keeps the batteries charged :-(

If I had a boat like yours (I am assuming that you don't have a shower
in the Head) I'd have foot operated water pumps. Believe it or not but
they do save on water use - you really use only what you need.

A wash down pump is really a luxury :-) I hade one rigged to wash down
the anchor but since I also had a power anchor windlass I always
hauled the anchor with the diesel running so a little extra current
for the pump was of little interest.

Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)

Ping Larry
 

Bruce in Bangkok wrote:
Skipping the esoterics of battery charging..

If I had a boat like yours (I am assuming that you don't have a shower
in the Head) I'd have foot operated water pumps. Believe it or not but
they do save on water use - you really use only what you need.

Totally agree with that!
One quickly gets the old time ideas about women aboard boats.
Not that I'm going to do without!
Just that I can see where they were coming from back then.

The MOST wasteful thing in the water system is the water heater!

That's one think I'd happily remove but that it seems to be important
for resale value. (?)



A wash down pump is really a luxury :-) I had one rigged to wash down
the anchor but since I also had a power anchor windlass I always
hauled the anchor with the diesel running so a little extra current
for the pump was of little interest.

Yes, that one is a keeper.


Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)


--

Richard Lamb

Ping Larry
 

On Tue, 21 Sep 2010 08:32:18 +0700, Bruce in Bangkok
wrote:

On Mon, 20 Sep 2010 08:10:32 -0500, CaveLamb
wrote:


But a small generator would do it.

Know of any small 12 volt only gen sets?
(I think the manufacturers are missing a niche here)

I don't know about back there but they are fairly common here. I think
that most of them are actually 220 VAC generators with a rectified
circuit but they do charge batteries.

There are scads of those kind on the market.
But even the small ones are pretty fair sized - and pricey.
There is no real technical reason one couldn't make a 12 volt gas powered
charger no bigger than a weed-whacker motor.
(BTW, the 4 stroke versions are pretty quiet)


You can. But remember, there ain't no free lunch. I saw a mini-gen set
when I was in Vietnam. You could hold it in one hand, probably a 1
cu.in. engine driving a tiny alternator. It would just about power one
100 watt light bulb.But a 2.5 - 3.0 HP engine will drive about a 2 KW
alternator/Generator which would be over one hundred amps at 13.5
volts DC..

Google on Home Built Generator for a lot of ideas and examples. BUT
you have an air cooled, gasoline engine and they are a pain in the
butt. They are noisy, they take exotic fuel (at least exotic to 'in
board motor" people:-) and they get damned hot; the exhaust is hot
enough to ruin your gelcoat. But certainly you can build one with
minimum investment.

In fact that is exactly what I used for two years on anchor in
Singapore. I used to fill the tank; pull the rope; check the volt
meter and ignore it the rest of the day. Eventually it would run out
of gas and by that time I had enough battery charge to last another
day.



If you got a spare quid you might look into solar panels. I somehow
get the impression that most of your sailing is a week-end sort of
thing and a solar panel, or two, would certainly keep your batteries
charged.... as long as the sun shines.

That's true for now.
The marina has AC power, so keeping batteries topped off is no problem.
But a couple of days out of the marina gets to be a challenge.

I've converted most of the lights to LEDs.

The real current hogs are the pumps.
Like the pressure water system and wash down pump.

I have a couple of solar panels - 5 and 15 watts.
But I'm not quite sure how to work them with the existing battery charger.



Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)

You can buy 1, 2, etc., watt inverters here pretty cheaply. Of course
they are Chinese made and vary in quality, and efficiency, but still
pretty good bang for the buck.

The solar panels connect to the batteries. There are a number of
Gotchas though.

You need to be sure that the solar panels have a diode incorporated in
them to prevent reverse current flow. If yours are fairly recent they
likely do but still, take the time to check them.

Unless your panels are extremely small it is possible, if left
connected, for them to boil your batteries and you'll come back to the
boat after a month away and find the batteries dry.... and require
replacing. The answer is install a Solar Panel Regulator. Reasonable
in price and effective. Another method is to simply cover the solar
panels with a dark cover - black garbage bags will work. Of course if
you do then nothing keeps the batteries charged :-(

If I had a boat like yours (I am assuming that you don't have a shower
in the Head) I'd have foot operated water pumps. Believe it or not but
they do save on water use - you really use only what you need.

A wash down pump is really a luxury :-) I hade one rigged to wash down
the anchor but since I also had a power anchor windlass I always
hauled the anchor with the diesel running so a little extra current
for the pump was of little interest.

Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)
Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)

Ping Larry
 

Bruce in Bangkok wrote:

You can. But remember, there ain't no free lunch. I saw a mini-gen set
when I was in Vietnam. You could hold it in one hand, probably a 1
cu.in. engine driving a tiny alternator. It would just about power one
100 watt light bulb.But a 2.5 - 3.0 HP engine will drive about a 2 KW
alternator/Generator which would be over one hundred amps at 13.5
volts DC..

Google on Home Built Generator for a lot of ideas and examples. BUT
you have an air cooled, gasoline engine and they are a pain in the
butt. They are noisy, they take exotic fuel (at least exotic to 'in
board motor" people:-) and they get damned hot; the exhaust is hot
enough to ruin your gelcoat. But certainly you can build one with
minimum investment.

In fact that is exactly what I used for two years on anchor in
Singapore. I used to fill the tank; pull the rope; check the volt
meter and ignore it the rest of the day. Eventually it would run out
of gas and by that time I had enough battery charge to last another
day.

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)

Yea, Bruce!
That's the idea!

The little Honda gen-sets are really nice, fairly quiet, and refined and all
(and knock a boat unit right out of your wallet).

But for Galveston Bay, maybe that's the smart way to go.
It means the boat can be air conditioned - which makes the girls happy.
Me too, for that matter!


--

Richard Lamb

Ping Larry
 

But you knw, in the end, I'd really prefer to drop a 2cv Yanmar in the boat!

--

Richard Lamb

Ping Larry
 

On Tue, 21 Sep 2010 08:33:10 -0500, CaveLamb
wrote:

But you knw, in the end, I'd really prefer to drop a 2cv Yanmar in the boat!


Being the polite individual that I am I had refrained from saying that
:-)
Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)

Ping Larry
 

On Mon, 20 Sep 2010 21:14:14 -0500, CaveLamb
wrote:

Bruce in Bangkok wrote:
Skipping the esoterics of battery charging..

If I had a boat like yours (I am assuming that you don't have a shower
in the Head) I'd have foot operated water pumps. Believe it or not but
they do save on water use - you really use only what you need.

Totally agree with that!
One quickly gets the old time ideas about women aboard boats.
Not that I'm going to do without!
Just that I can see where they were coming from back then.

Actually if you get them afloat on a boat with manual water pumps so
that they believe that it is "normal" you are all set. My wife
believed that foot pumps were a good thing.... right up until I bought
the 40 footer that had AC, DC, pressure water and a shower in the
Head. You just can't get them to regress :-)

The MOST wasteful thing in the water system is the water heater!

Water Heater? Whatever for? You get all hot and sweaty and you want a
HOT shower? Try what a mate of mine swears that he did. Tell your
significant Other (what ever it may be) that salt water washes makes
the hair flossy and beautiful. Of course you need to rinse with fresh
water but as long as you got then there on the sugar scoop tell 'em to
just wash all over :-)



That's one think I'd happily remove but that it seems to be important
for resale value. (?)



A wash down pump is really a luxury :-) I had one rigged to wash down
the anchor but since I also had a power anchor windlass I always
hauled the anchor with the diesel running so a little extra current
for the pump was of little interest.

Yes, that one is a keeper.


Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)

By the way, I was thinking about putting a gen-set in a smaller boat
and I remembered some friends had their gen-set installed in one of
the cockpit seat lockers.

It was a Yanmar horizontal, single cylinder, water cooled, diesel
stripped of the fuel tank and water radiator with a small electric
water pump to circulate water through the engine and out the exhaust,
which belt drove a 60 or 100 amp automotive, self regulated, DC
generator. None of the parts, except for the water pump, were "marine
parts", and thus fairly cheap. The one I saw was built in San Diego,
probably 10 years ago.

As I remember it had a fairly small remote fuel tank and there were no
auto shutdowns. Not the kind of thing you'd want to leave running
while you dozed off but certainly sufficient for a 2 - 3 hour battery
charge while drinking your sundowner.

Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)

Ping Larry
 

Bruce in Bangkok wrote:
On Tue, 21 Sep 2010 08:33:10 -0500, CaveLamb
wrote:

But you knw, in the end, I'd really prefer to drop a 2cv Yanmar in the boat!


Being the polite individual that I am I had refrained from saying that
:-)
Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)

And I'd politely remind our gentle readers that that is one whale of a job!

I heard that small engine/transmission combos were all over the coast at
very reasonable prices due to hurricane damaged boats.

And it's only 750 miles round trip...

--

Richard Lamb