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Foley Engines responds to the BBB
Foley Engines responds to the BBB - a followup to a post of about a month
ago titled "Dr. Diesel, Foley Engines, and me..." and subsequent thread expansion which included reference to the Better Business Bureau... As I was under sail and out of internet communication, I didn't see this until just recently... For those interested in seeing any other stuff which may appear, you can go to the link in the BBB - click on the "more" for expansion of any section: http://central-westernma.app.bbb.org...24611/c/c98bbd... This response from Foley was sent to the BBB on 4-1 (appropriately, April Fool's Day). Contact Name and Title: Philip George, Service Mg Contact Phone: 508-753-2979 Contact Email: Dear Sir/Ms., We sold Mr. Gundlach a set of fuel injectors for his Perkins Marine engine. The transaction was quite simple. Mr. Gundlach called to place an order with us. We took his order in good faith. The parts he purchased were remanufactured and sold exchange (the old parts have to be sent back to us). The old injectors came back and we shipped a set of Factory Remanufactured injectors out to Mr. Gundlach. In the interim, Mr. Gundlach says he left a very small fitting on his old injectors. By the time this was brought to our attention Mr. Gundlach's old injectors had been processed along with the hundreds of other injectors we process every week. We could not entertain Mr. Gundlach's request for our people to "dig" through approximately 3000 injectors cores to look for these fittings. At that time we advised him to simply go to his local Perkins dealer and obtain the replacement fittings that he had said he had sent to us. The total cost for these parts should not have exceeded $15. We can not take responsibility for Mr. Gundlach's decision to remove or nor remove these fittings from his old injectors. For all of the above reasons we unable to offer Mr. Gundlach any money for his mistake. Furthermore, Mr. Gundlach has a track record of writing long winded complaints about issues with little or no merit. We are getting phone calls from past customers in the caribbean telling us that Mr. Gundlach is posting negative comments about our 96 year old company on various sail boat internet discussion sites including Sailnet and the Morgan 41 owners site. (Apparently Mr.Gundlach's boat, The Flying Pig is a Morgan). Our customers also tell us to disregard his rants because he has a pattern of posting daily on many different sites and he doesn't have the highest credibility. We urge the BBB to overturn this complaint. We have referred this matter to our attorneys and they tell us that they will be pursuing this matter in the courts of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts for damages resulting from "interference with a beneficial business relationship" and slander. Please feel free to contact me with any questions. Best Regards, Philip George Service Manager 508-753-2979 I'd be interested to see on what basis I can be found responsible for (Open Quote) "interference with a beneficial business relationship" and slander (close Quote) given that most of my post on which the complaint would be based consisted of verbatim transcripts of our email communications, of which half were theirs (and, of course, theirs, proving my point). Not to mention that slander is verbal defamation (from the Legal Dictionary: "1 : defamation of a person by unprivileged oral communication made to a third party"); I believe Mr. George intends Libel, the publishing of untruths (from http://www.cyberlibel.com/libel.html#Number%201 : "The classic definition is: "a publication without justification or lawful excuse which is calculated to injure the reputation of another by exposing him to hatred, contempt or ridicule." (Parke, B. in Parmiter v. Coupland (1840) GM&W 105 at 108)" - and many other interesting points found at the same site, all of which point to a fruitless enterprise on the attorney's part, - but if his attorneys say it's slander, who am I, not a lawyer, to disagree? And, do my numerous confirmatory respondents in public fora also run the risk of such approbium??? And then there's his audacious and scurrilous mendacity with his customers, some (others) found at Sailnet, of all places, given his citation using Sailnet as part of his rant. I'm hardly alone - see http://www.sailnet.com/forums/gear-m...y-engines.html as just a single point of reference for some perspective :{)) I'd have done myself a world of good to have seen this link before my encounter (but I didn't). To the above paragraph, did his attorneys go after all those posters, as well?? Note his "our customers tell" them to disregard me. Interesting that I've not heard from any of them in his defense, nor get the criticism (I get plenty of criticism - read: polarity of views - about some of my posts on various levels, but not usually about stuff I have first-hand experience with) cited. Am I now to take _him_ to libel action? :{)) Note, of course, the total lack of response to the bait-and-switch part of the complaint, let alone the customer service attitude and followup (including offering to sell me the missing parts and then demanding an additional $50 purchase when I tried to do that, as seen in my original - another bait-and-switch, in my view). However, back to his response specifics: Foley Engine, the self-proclaimed diesel engine experts, should not have had to be notified of a part sent into them (the banjo bolts) which should have been retained. I've never before worked on them (if I had, I might have known not to include them when I sent off the cores, despite my - new - spares having them on them). However, even given my lack of practical experience, if I'd seen 3000 injector cores come in (implied in the last 2 weeks between receipt and my notification) without them, I believe I would recognize that this was out of order. These so-called experts should have had that stick out like a sore thumb, and have mentioned it in the requirement that I pay them $200 more than I was quoted at the beginning. Without their having seen them, as seen in the original, nothing would have happened (meaning, they had my injectors in hand - had they not been acceptable cores, the order would have been rejected, which suggests that they were inspected before I was called - and were proceeding with the order, however it may have concluded). The suggestion that I go to the local Perkins dealer, given that I was in the Bahamas, was disingenous at best. Even when I was in the states, it involved a drive of a couple of hours, as seen in my original post. Failing that, as pointed out, in my last letter to them, and his response to the BBB, it's less than $15 for the required parts. Don't you suppose that it would have been REALLY good business (particularly, since I agreed, under stress, to pay $100 more than I'd originally agreed), prompting a very different sort of reaction from me, to have sent me those parts, new, with the new injectors, saying something to the effect of "You'll need these; they're not normally included, but since your engine won't run without them, we've included them here. Remember us when you need more parts!"? Those of you who follow my "rambling and nonsensical posts" (an assertion from a followup poster to the BBB site, but softened to include that Foley had a rough reputation in dispute resolution) know that I make repetitious very positive noises about vendors I find going out of their way either in good customer service or in delivering more than they promise, including links to how to find them, in case one of my thousands of readers might like to take advantage of such superior vendors. Imagine the difference (counterweight to all the negative stuff which appears other than in a thread originated by me, if one searches, as I SHOULD have done, before my order) if I'd been singing their praises not only on this but on future encounters with them!?! You (regular readers) also know that I'm not shy about admitting dumb mistakes. Likely, my retelling of this (different!) tale would have included laughing at myself, and congratulating Foley on catching my error (admitted, based on the new spares I had already in stock) and rectifying it - whether by customer service of free parts, or, even, just a simple sale of the parts to me (which should, of course, have occurred by their immediate offer, instead of only after my many attempts to reach them, and, especially, without requiring an additional $50 purchase). Their loss, I've already eaten mine. If, in the EXTREMELY unlikely event I'm so much as contacted by an attorney, let alone served, I'll follow up, but, aside from this thread continuing, I expect this is the end of it. L8R Skip, lying George Town Exuma Bahamas Morgan 461 #2 SV Flying Pig KI4MPC See our galleries at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery ! Follow us at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFlyingPigLog and/or http://groups.google.com/group/flyingpiglog "You are never given a wish without also being given the power to make it come true. You may have to work for it however." (and) "There is no such thing as a problem without a gift for you in its hand (Richard Bach) |
Foley Engines responds to the BBB
"Flying Pig" wrote in message ... Foley Engines responds to the BBB - a followup to a post of about a month ago titled "Dr. Diesel, Foley Engines, and me..." and subsequent thread expansion which included reference to the Better Business Bureau... As I was under sail and out of internet communication, I didn't see this until just recently... For those interested in seeing any other stuff which may appear, you can go to the link in the BBB - click on the "more" for expansion of any section: http://central-westernma.app.bbb.org...24611/c/c98bbd... This response from Foley was sent to the BBB on 4-1 (appropriately, April Fool's Day). Contact Name and Title: Philip George, Service Mg Contact Phone: 508-753-2979 Contact Email: Dear Sir/Ms., We sold Mr. Gundlach a set of fuel injectors for his Perkins Marine engine. The transaction was quite simple. Mr. Gundlach called to place an order with us. We took his order in good faith. The parts he purchased were remanufactured and sold exchange (the old parts have to be sent back to us). The old injectors came back and we shipped a set of Factory Remanufactured injectors out to Mr. Gundlach. In the interim, Mr. Gundlach says he left a very small fitting on his old injectors. By the time this was brought to our attention Mr. Gundlach's old injectors had been processed along with the hundreds of other injectors we process every week. We could not entertain Mr. Gundlach's request for our people to "dig" through approximately 3000 injectors cores to look for these fittings. At that time we advised him to simply go to his local Perkins dealer and obtain the replacement fittings that he had said he had sent to us. The total cost for these parts should not have exceeded $15. We can not take responsibility for Mr. Gundlach's decision to remove or nor remove these fittings from his old injectors. For all of the above reasons we unable to offer Mr. Gundlach any money for his mistake. Furthermore, Mr. Gundlach has a track record of writing long winded complaints about issues with little or no merit. We are getting phone calls from past customers in the caribbean telling us that Mr. Gundlach is posting negative comments about our 96 year old company on various sail boat internet discussion sites including Sailnet and the Morgan 41 owners site. (Apparently Mr.Gundlach's boat, The Flying Pig is a Morgan). Our customers also tell us to disregard his rants because he has a pattern of posting daily on many different sites and he doesn't have the highest credibility. We urge the BBB to overturn this complaint. We have referred this matter to our attorneys and they tell us that they will be pursuing this matter in the courts of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts for damages resulting from "interference with a beneficial business relationship" and slander. Please feel free to contact me with any questions. Best Regards, Philip George Service Manager 508-753-2979 I'd be interested to see on what basis I can be found responsible for (Open Quote) "interference with a beneficial business relationship" and slander (close Quote) given that most of my post on which the complaint would be based consisted of verbatim transcripts of our email communications, of which half were theirs (and, of course, theirs, proving my point). Not to mention that slander is verbal defamation (from the Legal Dictionary: "1 : defamation of a person by unprivileged oral communication made to a third party"); I believe Mr. George intends Libel, the publishing of untruths (from http://www.cyberlibel.com/libel.html#Number%201 : "The classic definition is: "a publication without justification or lawful excuse which is calculated to injure the reputation of another by exposing him to hatred, contempt or ridicule." (Parke, B. in Parmiter v. Coupland (1840) GM&W 105 at 108)" - and many other interesting points found at the same site, all of which point to a fruitless enterprise on the attorney's part, - but if his attorneys say it's slander, who am I, not a lawyer, to disagree? And, do my numerous confirmatory respondents in public fora also run the risk of such approbium??? And then there's his audacious and scurrilous mendacity with his customers, some (others) found at Sailnet, of all places, given his citation using Sailnet as part of his rant. I'm hardly alone - see http://www.sailnet.com/forums/gear-m...y-engines.html as just a single point of reference for some perspective :{)) I'd have done myself a world of good to have seen this link before my encounter (but I didn't). To the above paragraph, did his attorneys go after all those posters, as well?? Note his "our customers tell" them to disregard me. Interesting that I've not heard from any of them in his defense, nor get the criticism (I get plenty of criticism - read: polarity of views - about some of my posts on various levels, but not usually about stuff I have first-hand experience with) cited. Am I now to take _him_ to libel action? :{)) Note, of course, the total lack of response to the bait-and-switch part of the complaint, let alone the customer service attitude and followup (including offering to sell me the missing parts and then demanding an additional $50 purchase when I tried to do that, as seen in my original - another bait-and-switch, in my view). However, back to his response specifics: Foley Engine, the self-proclaimed diesel engine experts, should not have had to be notified of a part sent into them (the banjo bolts) which should have been retained. I've never before worked on them (if I had, I might have known not to include them when I sent off the cores, despite my - new - spares having them on them). However, even given my lack of practical experience, if I'd seen 3000 injector cores come in (implied in the last 2 weeks between receipt and my notification) without them, I believe I would recognize that this was out of order. These so-called experts should have had that stick out like a sore thumb, and have mentioned it in the requirement that I pay them $200 more than I was quoted at the beginning. Without their having seen them, as seen in the original, nothing would have happened (meaning, they had my injectors in hand - had they not been acceptable cores, the order would have been rejected, which suggests that they were inspected before I was called - and were proceeding with the order, however it may have concluded). The suggestion that I go to the local Perkins dealer, given that I was in the Bahamas, was disingenous at best. Even when I was in the states, it involved a drive of a couple of hours, as seen in my original post. Failing that, as pointed out, in my last letter to them, and his response to the BBB, it's less than $15 for the required parts. Don't you suppose that it would have been REALLY good business (particularly, since I agreed, under stress, to pay $100 more than I'd originally agreed), prompting a very different sort of reaction from me, to have sent me those parts, new, with the new injectors, saying something to the effect of "You'll need these; they're not normally included, but since your engine won't run without them, we've included them here. Remember us when you need more parts!"? Those of you who follow my "rambling and nonsensical posts" (an assertion from a followup poster to the BBB site, but softened to include that Foley had a rough reputation in dispute resolution) know that I make repetitious very positive noises about vendors I find going out of their way either in good customer service or in delivering more than they promise, including links to how to find them, in case one of my thousands of readers might like to take advantage of such superior vendors. Imagine the difference (counterweight to all the negative stuff which appears other than in a thread originated by me, if one searches, as I SHOULD have done, before my order) if I'd been singing their praises not only on this but on future encounters with them!?! You (regular readers) also know that I'm not shy about admitting dumb mistakes. Likely, my retelling of this (different!) tale would have included laughing at myself, and congratulating Foley on catching my error (admitted, based on the new spares I had already in stock) and rectifying it - whether by customer service of free parts, or, even, just a simple sale of the parts to me (which should, of course, have occurred by their immediate offer, instead of only after my many attempts to reach them, and, especially, without requiring an additional $50 purchase). Their loss, I've already eaten mine. If, in the EXTREMELY unlikely event I'm so much as contacted by an attorney, let alone served, I'll follow up, but, aside from this thread continuing, I expect this is the end of it. L8R Skip, lying George Town Exuma Bahamas Morgan 461 #2 SV Flying Pig KI4MPC See our galleries at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery ! Follow us at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFlyingPigLog and/or http://groups.google.com/group/flyingpiglog "You are never given a wish without also being given the power to make it come true. You may have to work for it however." (and) "There is no such thing as a problem without a gift for you in its hand (Richard Bach) I don't know about yours Skip, but my life is full enough that I would have stopped worrying about the parts (that you mistakenly sent in) and moved on long ago. Enjoy where you are and what you're doing! Most people will never get the chance to cruise. |
Foley Engines responds to the BBB
I don't see why you are seeking remedy from BBB when your vendor isn't a
member. I'm surprised it even replied. I don't see you gaining by continuing this. If it were me, I'd take it as one of life's lumps and look forward. The BBB can't force the vendor to do squat. You may as well complain to the fire department close to Foley. |
Foley Engines responds to the BBB
Skip,
I can see why you are irritated about this affair, but some of this is clearly your doing. Your first error is not having verified, functional injectors on the boat. Not having them forced you to do remote business. That placed you in a very vulnerable position and that usually translates to exceptional cost. The next mistake is to send the injectors back BEFORE the new ones arrived. The normal method used when core charges are necessary is that the customer (you) pays the full price and then after the core is received by the vender, the vender generates a credit to the customer. I also think your comment about the firm catching your error is out of order. I think it is pretty safe to assume that the people receiving parts, stacking shelves and packing parts will not be the sharpest knives in the drawer when it comes to knowing how to use the bits they handle, because if they did know, they wouldn't be stacking shelves and packing boxes. Now that said, I think Phil George's action is stupid at best. His action over this incident has done nothing to help his company's business reputation. It fact, I am certain it has caused irreparable harm. I can think of several ways he could have remedied the situation and not cost the company anything and generated good will in the process. As far as pending legal action....forget it..... he has no case. Stupidity has its just rewards. Let this be a lesson to all. Steve "Flying Pig" wrote in message ... Foley Engines responds to the BBB - a followup to a post of about a month ago titled "Dr. Diesel, Foley Engines, and me..." and subsequent thread expansion which included reference to the Better Business Bureau... As I was under sail and out of internet communication, I didn't see this until just recently... For those interested in seeing any other stuff which may appear, you can go to the link in the BBB - click on the "more" for expansion of any section: http://central-westernma.app.bbb.org...24611/c/c98bbd... This response from Foley was sent to the BBB on 4-1 (appropriately, April Fool's Day). Contact Name and Title: Philip George, Service Mg Contact Phone: 508-753-2979 Contact Email: Dear Sir/Ms., We sold Mr. Gundlach a set of fuel injectors for his Perkins Marine engine. The transaction was quite simple. Mr. Gundlach called to place an order with us. We took his order in good faith. The parts he purchased were remanufactured and sold exchange (the old parts have to be sent back to us). The old injectors came back and we shipped a set of Factory Remanufactured injectors out to Mr. Gundlach. In the interim, Mr. Gundlach says he left a very small fitting on his old injectors. By the time this was brought to our attention Mr. Gundlach's old injectors had been processed along with the hundreds of other injectors we process every week. We could not entertain Mr. Gundlach's request for our people to "dig" through approximately 3000 injectors cores to look for these fittings. At that time we advised him to simply go to his local Perkins dealer and obtain the replacement fittings that he had said he had sent to us. The total cost for these parts should not have exceeded $15. We can not take responsibility for Mr. Gundlach's decision to remove or nor remove these fittings from his old injectors. For all of the above reasons we unable to offer Mr. Gundlach any money for his mistake. Furthermore, Mr. Gundlach has a track record of writing long winded complaints about issues with little or no merit. We are getting phone calls from past customers in the caribbean telling us that Mr. Gundlach is posting negative comments about our 96 year old company on various sail boat internet discussion sites including Sailnet and the Morgan 41 owners site. (Apparently Mr.Gundlach's boat, The Flying Pig is a Morgan). Our customers also tell us to disregard his rants because he has a pattern of posting daily on many different sites and he doesn't have the highest credibility. We urge the BBB to overturn this complaint. We have referred this matter to our attorneys and they tell us that they will be pursuing this matter in the courts of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts for damages resulting from "interference with a beneficial business relationship" and slander. Please feel free to contact me with any questions. Best Regards, Philip George Service Manager 508-753-2979 I'd be interested to see on what basis I can be found responsible for (Open Quote) "interference with a beneficial business relationship" and slander (close Quote) given that most of my post on which the complaint would be based consisted of verbatim transcripts of our email communications, of which half were theirs (and, of course, theirs, proving my point). Not to mention that slander is verbal defamation (from the Legal Dictionary: "1 : defamation of a person by unprivileged oral communication made to a third party"); I believe Mr. George intends Libel, the publishing of untruths (from http://www.cyberlibel.com/libel.html#Number%201 : "The classic definition is: "a publication without justification or lawful excuse which is calculated to injure the reputation of another by exposing him to hatred, contempt or ridicule." (Parke, B. in Parmiter v. Coupland (1840) GM&W 105 at 108)" - and many other interesting points found at the same site, all of which point to a fruitless enterprise on the attorney's part, - but if his attorneys say it's slander, who am I, not a lawyer, to disagree? And, do my numerous confirmatory respondents in public fora also run the risk of such approbium??? And then there's his audacious and scurrilous mendacity with his customers, some (others) found at Sailnet, of all places, given his citation using Sailnet as part of his rant. I'm hardly alone - see http://www.sailnet.com/forums/gear-m...y-engines.html as just a single point of reference for some perspective :{)) I'd have done myself a world of good to have seen this link before my encounter (but I didn't). To the above paragraph, did his attorneys go after all those posters, as well?? Note his "our customers tell" them to disregard me. Interesting that I've not heard from any of them in his defense, nor get the criticism (I get plenty of criticism - read: polarity of views - about some of my posts on various levels, but not usually about stuff I have first-hand experience with) cited. Am I now to take _him_ to libel action? :{)) Note, of course, the total lack of response to the bait-and-switch part of the complaint, let alone the customer service attitude and followup (including offering to sell me the missing parts and then demanding an additional $50 purchase when I tried to do that, as seen in my original - another bait-and-switch, in my view). However, back to his response specifics: Foley Engine, the self-proclaimed diesel engine experts, should not have had to be notified of a part sent into them (the banjo bolts) which should have been retained. I've never before worked on them (if I had, I might have known not to include them when I sent off the cores, despite my - new - spares having them on them). However, even given my lack of practical experience, if I'd seen 3000 injector cores come in (implied in the last 2 weeks between receipt and my notification) without them, I believe I would recognize that this was out of order. These so-called experts should have had that stick out like a sore thumb, and have mentioned it in the requirement that I pay them $200 more than I was quoted at the beginning. Without their having seen them, as seen in the original, nothing would have happened (meaning, they had my injectors in hand - had they not been acceptable cores, the order would have been rejected, which suggests that they were inspected before I was called - and were proceeding with the order, however it may have concluded). The suggestion that I go to the local Perkins dealer, given that I was in the Bahamas, was disingenous at best. Even when I was in the states, it involved a drive of a couple of hours, as seen in my original post. Failing that, as pointed out, in my last letter to them, and his response to the BBB, it's less than $15 for the required parts. Don't you suppose that it would have been REALLY good business (particularly, since I agreed, under stress, to pay $100 more than I'd originally agreed), prompting a very different sort of reaction from me, to have sent me those parts, new, with the new injectors, saying something to the effect of "You'll need these; they're not normally included, but since your engine won't run without them, we've included them here. Remember us when you need more parts!"? Those of you who follow my "rambling and nonsensical posts" (an assertion from a followup poster to the BBB site, but softened to include that Foley had a rough reputation in dispute resolution) know that I make repetitious very positive noises about vendors I find going out of their way either in good customer service or in delivering more than they promise, including links to how to find them, in case one of my thousands of readers might like to take advantage of such superior vendors. Imagine the difference (counterweight to all the negative stuff which appears other than in a thread originated by me, if one searches, as I SHOULD have done, before my order) if I'd been singing their praises not only on this but on future encounters with them!?! You (regular readers) also know that I'm not shy about admitting dumb mistakes. Likely, my retelling of this (different!) tale would have included laughing at myself, and congratulating Foley on catching my error (admitted, based on the new spares I had already in stock) and rectifying it - whether by customer service of free parts, or, even, just a simple sale of the parts to me (which should, of course, have occurred by their immediate offer, instead of only after my many attempts to reach them, and, especially, without requiring an additional $50 purchase). Their loss, I've already eaten mine. If, in the EXTREMELY unlikely event I'm so much as contacted by an attorney, let alone served, I'll follow up, but, aside from this thread continuing, I expect this is the end of it. L8R Skip, lying George Town Exuma Bahamas Morgan 461 #2 SV Flying Pig KI4MPC See our galleries at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery ! Follow us at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFlyingPigLog and/or http://groups.google.com/group/flyingpiglog "You are never given a wish without also being given the power to make it come true. You may have to work for it however." (and) "There is no such thing as a problem without a gift for you in its hand (Richard Bach) |
Foley Engines responds to the BBB
To both current responders, perhaps this, from the morgan mailing list, will
help put it in perspective - I have no expectations, whatsoever, of hearing from them again, and, as noted in other posts, have long since eaten any loss... ********** I have never done business with this guy but I have with guys just like him. Its thanks to guys like you that we can be spared the experience and steer clear of them. Don't let the blowhard worry you with his "I am gonna set my lawyers on you" attitude. it will never happen. Thanks! *********** Yah, I know. There's no way any lawyers were involved, cuz no lawyer would mistake slander (I've *spoken* to very few on the subject; the likelihood that such verbal reports would have reached his ears is infinitesimal, particularly, had the few who've *heard* about it from me would have attacked me on the spot if they were a rabid supporter) for libel :{)) OTOH, there are many like you who have either confirmed my experience, or commented about their benefit from it. That won't do anything to interrupt or otherwise diminish their business, obviously, as there are still legions who will search for diesel suppliers, get Foley as a reference, see their impressive web page(s) and not go further to investigate comments/reports on experiences with those found... I have to say, as I told Lydia yesterday, that this is the most fun I've had in a while, well worth the $100 extra I paid over my original quote. I would RELISH having an actual summons - and, since I'm going to be in the NE in July, perhaps I'll pay them a visit and give them the opportunity VBSEG, as they won't send a server to the Caribbean, or even to N. GA where I'll otherwise be :{)) And, the lousy experience WRT the banjo bolts (my error, of course, based on an assumption from the NEW [not rebuilt] injectors I had in spares) aside, the injectors work, fit (of course), and have seemed to have had a very beneficial effect on my consumption. I probably would have saved a little, perhaps a lot, if they just needed servicing rather than rebuilding, by using the 2-hours-away folks I had started with in my search, but I didn't have to go through it (the travel and uncertainty as to their ability to make it happen without sending them off to their rebuild shop). L8R Skip, still in Georgetown, about to put up the next of our logs... Morgan 461 #2 SV Flying Pig KI4MPC See our galleries at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery ! Follow us at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFlyingPigLog and/or http://groups.google.com/group/flyingpiglog "You are never given a wish without also being given the power to make it come true. You may have to work for it however." (and) "There is no such thing as a problem without a gift for you in its hand. You seek problems because you need their gifts." (Richard Bach, in Illusions - The Reluctant Messiah |
Foley Engines responds to the BBB
On Sun, 2 May 2010 11:30:57 -0400, "Flying Pig"
wrote: Classic tempest in a teapot. Foley won't be hurt. And except for you catching an irritated employee on their phone after hours (or him encountering you) and your mistake in sending them parts you shouldn't have - none of this would have happened. I wouldn't hesitate using Foley. But they won't get my business. I don't have any diesel injectors. --Vic (seeing if we can get another whistle from the pot.) |
Foley Engines responds to the BBB
"Vic Smith" wrote in message ... On Sun, 2 May 2010 11:30:57 -0400, "Flying Pig" wrote: Classic tempest in a teapot. Foley won't be hurt. And except for you catching an irritated employee on their phone after hours (or him encountering you) and your mistake in sending them parts you shouldn't have - none of this would have happened. I wouldn't hesitate using Foley. But they won't get my business. I don't have any diesel injectors. --Vic (seeing if we can get another whistle from the pot.) Hi Vic! How are you? |
Foley Engines responds to the BBB
"Flying Pig" wrote in message
... Foley Engines responds to the BBB - a followup to a post of about a month ago titled "Dr. Diesel, Foley Engines, and me..." and subsequent thread expansion which included reference to the Better Business Bureau... big snip Skippy, if you had a real sailboat, not some dumb motorsailer, you'd be spending more time sailing and less time engaging in lubberly pursuits like dealing with diesel injector rebuilds from rude and obnoxious companies with their "**** the customer" attitudes. Wilbur Hubbard |
Foley Engines responds to the BBB
On Sun, 2 May 2010 12:48:32 -0400, "mmc" wrote:
"Vic Smith" wrote in message .. . On Sun, 2 May 2010 11:30:57 -0400, "Flying Pig" wrote: Classic tempest in a teapot. Foley won't be hurt. And except for you catching an irritated employee on their phone after hours (or him encountering you) and your mistake in sending them parts you shouldn't have - none of this would have happened. I wouldn't hesitate using Foley. But they won't get my business. I don't have any diesel injectors. --Vic (seeing if we can get another whistle from the pot.) Hi Vic! How are you? Just fine mmc, and you? --Vic |
Foley Engines responds to the BBB
"Wilbur Hubbard" wrote in message
anews.com... Skippy, if you had a real sailboat, not some dumb motorsailer, you'd be spending more time sailing and less time engaging in lubberly pursuits like dealing with diesel injector rebuilds from rude and obnoxious companies with their "**** the customer" attitudes. Wilbur Hubbard You obviously haven't been paying attention (again) :{)) That occasion was under duress; I'd have far rather have been on the boat, but as long as I was ashore, I took advantage of the opportunity to get some boat parts and see if servicing my injectors would improve matters. And to your last, I commend your inspection of our logs since that time. L8R Love from Skip and crew, still in Georgetown, but about to move on in the next weather window - but enjoying the KISS amps keeping our batteries up, now -- Morgan 461 #2 SV Flying Pig KI4MPC See our galleries at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery ! Follow us at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFlyingPigLog and/or http://groups.google.com/group/flyingpiglog "You are never given a wish without also being given the power to make it come true. You may have to work for it however." (and) "There is no such thing as a problem without a gift for you in its hand. You seek problems because you need their gifts." (Richard Bach, in Illusions - The Reluctant Messiah) |
Foley Engines responds to the BBB
"Vic Smith" wrote in message
... On Sun, 2 May 2010 11:30:57 -0400, "Flying Pig" wrote: Foley won't be hurt. Most likely not. With any luck, neither will the legions of potential others who have had my experience expand very much. And except for you catching an irritated employee on their phone after An IRRITATED? employee?? I commend you to read the sailnet link I provided. Obviously you have not, or you wouldn't bother sniping. hours (or him encountering you) My first call (which was what started the whole thing) was on a Tuesday, at 5:15, when they close at 6. I wish that they'd been closed. and your mistake in sending them parts No ****. Never again. Much L8R :{)) |
Foley Engines responds to the BBB
"Vic Smith" wrote in message ... On Sun, 2 May 2010 12:48:32 -0400, "mmc" wrote: "Vic Smith" wrote in message . .. On Sun, 2 May 2010 11:30:57 -0400, "Flying Pig" wrote: Classic tempest in a teapot. Foley won't be hurt. And except for you catching an irritated employee on their phone after hours (or him encountering you) and your mistake in sending them parts you shouldn't have - none of this would have happened. I wouldn't hesitate using Foley. But they won't get my business. I don't have any diesel injectors. --Vic (seeing if we can get another whistle from the pot.) Hi Vic! How are you? Just fine mmc, and you? --Vic Doing fine. Had a cold crappy winter (for FL) but a nice 2 weeks of spring. |
Foley Engines responds to the BBB
On Mon, 3 May 2010 04:36:14 -0700 (PDT), Skip Gundlach
wrote: "Vic Smith" wrote in message .. . On Sun, 2 May 2010 11:30:57 -0400, "Flying Pig" wrote: Foley won't be hurt. Most likely not. With any luck, neither will the legions of potential others who have had my experience expand very much. And except for you catching an irritated employee on their phone after An IRRITATED? employee?? I commend you to read the sailnet link I provided. Obviously you have not, or you wouldn't bother sniping. hours (or him encountering you) My first call (which was what started the whole thing) was on a Tuesday, at 5:15, when they close at 6. I wish that they'd been closed. and your mistake in sending them parts No ****. Never again. Much L8R :{)) Read some of the sailnet stuff. Looks like the guy you dealt with is the owner. I've dealt with plenty of cranky assholes. Ends up one of two ways, mostly depending on my mood. Either I read him right and can work with him enough I don't blow my stack and we make a deal, or we tell each other to get ****ed. This Foley character is still in business, so he's doing something right. I get the feeling he just doesn't like some people right off the bat. May not be the way to make friends and influence people, but then some people don't care about that. He's one of them. Nothing wrong with you warning people off him, but while you may view him as ogre, to him you're a mosquito. He's on the phone all day dealing with customers or driving them away. Then he goes home and does whatever he does without giving them another thought. That's basically what I meant by "tempest in a teapot." He owns the pot. I'm guessing the bulk of his business is with professional mechanics, and to him the "boaty" customers are a different species. I saw one post where somebody went into Foley's for an injector pump and was repeatedly queried about whether he was a diesel mechanic. I've run into similar attitudes in the furnace part supply business when buying parts. They don't deal well with non-pros. There are some reasons for that, but that discussion goes astray from talking about getting the right boat engine parts at the right price with the right service. I can't recall what options you had to get your injectors, but excepting dealing with an asshole and mistakenly sacrificing your banjo bolts, seems you got the job done. Did you ever find a source other than Foley that you could have used or will use next time you're fixing your Perkins in an exotic location? You should publicize it. --Vic |
Foley Engines responds to the BBB
"Vic Smith" wrote in message
... I can't recall what options you had to get your injectors, but excepting dealing with an asshole and mistakenly sacrificing your banjo bolts, seems you got the job done. My options, once I capitulated to sending off my old ones, as I was going to be in the states for only a few more weeks, were extremely limited. However, I'd started with Southeastservice.net. They have a rebuilding and stocking location in NC, not a driveable distance from where I was in GA, and their location was a couple of hours south of me. That's where I got the BBs and washers, they promising to stay a few minutes longer if needed because I was coming just before they closed on Saturday, the day before I was to leave. They had 4 in stock, praise the Lord, which solved my immediate problem. I really just wanted to see what Foley would do; they proved their reputation among cruisers many times over, in the end. When I called to see what might be done to get the missing parts, introducing myself nicely (no more than identifying myself, really), he interrupted me before I could even say hello, and hung up on me. His hanging up on people, as you may have seen, is SOP with him. In my initial searching, I struck out on finding anyone with stock, or who could provide any real assurance that they'd have me back in business by the time I had to leave. In desperation (preferring to get them serviced, if they didn't need rebuilding), I called all the tractor places, truck places, and any other service places which showed Perkins in their ads. All said they shipped them off to the Southeast plant in NC, which is why I STARTED with them before, hoping to find one who could sell me two more in stock (to go with the two new spares I had). I'd called TAD, who I've had a good experience with in the past, but they were closed. Asshole was the next on the list. Wish he'd been closed, too, cuz I'd have called TAD back in the morning! :{/) Did you ever find a source other than Foley that you could have used or will use next time you're fixing your Perkins in an exotic location? If I were willing to deal with international shipments, and have a spare set, as I now do, there are legions of Perkins distributors who would be glad to help me if I took the old ones out and sent them off, using my spares until their return (to go into spares). One such was the guy in California who told me of the GA distributors (after closing on the same Friday, but CA being 3 hours earlier, I was able to get one), and gave me not only the right part numbers, but told me not to pay any more than the RRP of $3.16 (which was what I was charged in Southeast. And, going back to my original target (servicing), had I abandoned that and just resigned myself to rebuilts, I have no doubt that Southeast would have done a stellar job. I'm going there in Lydia's July run for her grandson to get the other 4 BBs and washers, and pick their brain about what other spares they might have which would be prudent for me to have... You should publicize it. Heh. If you read my stuff regularly, you know I do go out of my way, in many of my log posts, to praise (and link, with emails, too) helpful vendors. This is just the flip side of the coin :{)) OTOH, in general, as Dr. Diesel was proud to point out in his BBB response, the 4-154 is an obsolete engine, and parts other than the BBs which are generic to the many engines which use the same injectors are sometimes unobtainium. In another venue, someone took me to task for what (he thought) should have been a very simple job. He then went looking to see how easy it was, and admitted that it was far from simple. Despite all the farm tractors which also use the same engine, getting parts - such as a fresh water pump - is sometimes literally impossible NIB, and difficult in rebuilt and/or used. It's why, on lists which are specific to boats using the engine, any part-outs are usually snapped up immediately. In any case, I really expect (other than discussions such as this) this to be the end of it. They're not going to even think (posturing to the BBB aside) about legal action, and I've had more than $100 of fun with the experience :{)) L8R Skip -- Morgan 461 #2 SV Flying Pig KI4MPC See our galleries at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery ! Follow us at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFlyingPigLog and/or http://groups.google.com/group/flyingpiglog "You are never given a wish without also being given the power to make it come true. You may have to work for it however." (and) "There is no such thing as a problem without a gift for you in its hand. You seek problems because you need their gifts." (Richard Bach, in Illusions - The Reluctant Messiah) |
Foley Engines responds to the BBB
On Mon, 3 May 2010 15:45:50 -0700 (PDT), Skip Gundlach
wrote: In any case, I really expect (other than discussions such as this) this to be the end of it. They're not going to even think (posturing to the BBB aside) about legal action, and I've had more than $100 of fun with the experience :{)) I admire you for having the perseverance to take the case to the BBB. It may not help your particular issue, but if the BBB gets enough of these complaints they'll begin to take notice. I'm not sure how it works if you call the BBB to check out a vendor, but hopefully there is a feedback process for informing people of prior complaints. There are Foley stories similar to yours on the trawler group going back more than 10 years. |
Foley Engines responds to the BBB
Skippy, if you had a real sailboat, not some dumb motorsailer, you'd be spending more time sailing and less time engaging in lubberly pursuits like dealing with diesel injector rebuilds from rude and obnoxious companies with their "**** the customer" attitudes. Wilbur Hubbard Dear Willbur: Did you read, "...Our customers also tell us to disregard his rants because he has a pattern of posting daily on many different sites and he doesn't have the highest credibility...." Our work here is confrmed! Yes, calling Bull **** on Skip is working. some people do take notice. please keep up the good work. Hopfully with persaverance Zoe the coffee clown will also be found a fraud. People are reading willburr keep writing!~ bob |
Foley Engines responds to the BBB
On 3 Mag, 17:45, Skip Gundlach wrote:
My options, once I capitulated to sending off my old ones, as I was going to be in the states for only a few more weeks, were extremely limited. skiip stop being a jew. You wil wast a dollar trying to save a dime. TIME IS MONEY fool! order TWO NEW sets of new injectors NOW from OM/dealer/Disel service, put one set into service and keep the other factory NEW ones as spares. Then when one fails you put into service and send the old one to get remanufactured. Oh, here is a good one. as a kid in high school I worked for a detroit marine shop. I got to do general mechanic helper duties plus grind valves and lap them in heads, assymble heads, and also ................ rebuild and test injectors. I was 16 years old. It aint brain surgry Dont **** around and nickle and dime yoursel into 10,000 word posts whining how ya got ripped off. run your boat like a boat. Bob |
Foley Engines responds to the BBB
On 5/4/10 1:24 AM, Bob wrote:
On 3 Mag, 17:45, Skip wrote: My options, once I capitulated to sending off my old ones, as I was going to be in the states for only a few more weeks, were extremely limited. skiip stop being a jew. Uh, Bob...we already have Larry making those sort of remarks...isn't one hater of jews enough? -- The Tea Party's teabaggers are just the Republican base by another name. |
Foley Engines responds to the BBB
"Bob" wrote in message
... Skippy, if you had a real sailboat, not some dumb motorsailer, you'd be spending more time sailing and less time engaging in lubberly pursuits like dealing with diesel injector rebuilds from rude and obnoxious companies with their "**** the customer" attitudes. Wilbur Hubbard Dear Willbur: Did you read, "...Our customers also tell us to disregard his rants because he has a pattern of posting daily on many different sites and he doesn't have the highest credibility...." Our work here is confrmed! Yes, calling Bull **** on Skip is working. some people do take notice. please keep up the good work. Hopfully with persaverance Zoe the coffee clown will also be found a fraud. People are reading willburr keep writing!~ bob Joe is still a fraud and a hopeless case - all talk and no action - but, other than being very long-winded, Skippy has earned some respect from me. He's done a lot of cruising and hasn't come to serious grief in the past two years so he's learning. Now, if he would loan me Lydia for a couple months so I could put her to work doing a good spring cleaning aboard my yacht where her domestic talents would be appreciated, he would be able to pilot his yacht himself and stay within the marked channels. lol And, besides, if Lydia really thinks Skippy is some sort of 'hunk' she wouldn't be able to keep her hands off a real stud like me. But, I'd keep her at bay because, as a Christian man, I wouldn't feel right having intimate relations with a married woman and if she got what I have to give she'd never be satisfied with the likes of Skippy any more. I can't have ANY woman living her life pining after me the rest of her days. Wilbur Hubbard |
Foley Engines responds to the BBB
"Wilbur Hubbard" wrote in message
news:4be07ac9$0$65850 ... other than being very long-winded, Skippy has earned some respect from me. He's done a lot of cruising and hasn't come to serious grief in the past two years so he's learning. Now, if he would loan me Lydia for a couple months so I could put her to work doing a good spring cleaning aboard my yacht where her domestic talents would be appreciated, he would be able to pilot his yacht himself and stay within the marked channels. lol All cattle and no hat. You've been invited more times than I can bother to look, and Lydia is obsessed with cleaning and polishing. You're welcome to her, if you'll just show up... And, besides, if Lydia really thinks Skippy is some sort of 'hunk' she wouldn't be able to keep her hands off a real stud like me. But, I'd keep her at bay because, as a Christian man, I wouldn't feel right having intimate relations with a married woman and if she got what I have to give she'd never be satisfied with the likes of Skippy any more. I can't have ANY woman living her life pining after me the rest of her days. Wilbur Hubbard I can assure you she'd manage to quell her fiery impulses - no worries on your part or mine. So, for yet another time, when are you coming out to the Bahamas to show us what a real boat is like? L8R Skip, still in Georgetown -- Morgan 461 #2 SV Flying Pig KI4MPC See our galleries at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery ! Follow us at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFlyingPigLog and/or http://groups.google.com/group/flyingpiglog "You are never given a wish without also being given the power to make it come true. You may have to work for it however." (and) "There is no such thing as a problem without a gift for you in its hand. You seek problems because you need their gifts." (Richard Bach, in Illusions - The Reluctant Messiah) |
Foley Engines responds to the BBB
"Flying Pig" wrote in message
... All cattle and no hat. Translate: Mostly bull****, and the emperor has no clothes :{)) L8R, I'm going to bed... -- Morgan 461 #2 SV Flying Pig KI4MPC See our galleries at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery ! Follow us at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFlyingPigLog and/or http://groups.google.com/group/flyingpiglog "You are never given a wish without also being given the power to make it come true. You may have to work for it however." (and) "There is no such thing as a problem without a gift for you in its hand. You seek problems because you need their gifts." (Richard Bach, in Illusions - The Reluctant Messiah) |
Foley Engines responds to the BBB
On May 1, 11:31*am, "Flying Pig" wrote:
Let me get this right skep. all these 10,000s of words youve written is becuause you 1) made a mistake and sent in a needed part with your cores? Ya i apologize aboutthe jew remark it is racist and not normally part of how I think. i believe it was a result of living with all the fat **** toothless ignorant racist from the south who work the offshore oil industry. you know......... guys like Coffee Joe I stand admonished. I apologize. Now for you Skip.............. why are you making your injector mistake a vindeta. Im mean god man get a life. I have a excuse for typing here im board siting in a motel waiting to get on a boat and go to work. You on the other hand are living the tropical deram of harmony and bliss in paradice....seem like you wouldnt want to sully yourself with such trivia. Oh and why did you go to that guy. i found his webpage several years ago and decied he catered to the recreational boater too much and thre for not a suitable source for information or parts. go to a real disel shop not a place who makes 75% of their busines from novice/ recreational whinny people like yourself. best wishes Bob Bob |
Foley Engines responds to the BBB
Hi, Bob,
Yours clipped for brevity... Apology accepted :{)) No vendetta - just trying to get them to even respond to me. I went to them out of desperation and a huge hurry given all I was doing ashore, including the umpteen different vendors I was using to get lots of parts, some of which (this included) weren't very straightforward. As to the 10,000 word posts, you exaggerate. Most don't actually approach 3k (some do), and if you'd bother to read them, you'd know how I came to be in their abuse pen following failing to reach TAD, my first choice. Yes, we're living the dream. I expect no more from or about Foley other than this sort of chatter, as well as the numerous additional supportive affirmations of my experience (see Wayne.B above for a small example). That I didn't do a search which would have exposed me (see my original in explanation why I didn't) to all the invective others have ALSO posted was my harried time. However, not a vendetta, but hoping for enough exposure that those searching for Foley might also see some of the many (NO exception) rants against their treatment of customer and prospects, and avoid the same mistake. L8R, y'all Skip, about to dive the boat to remove the slime accumulated in Georgetown before moving on -- Morgan 461 #2 SV Flying Pig KI4MPC See our galleries at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery ! Follow us at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFlyingPigLog and/or http://groups.google.com/group/flyingpiglog "You are never given a wish without also being given the power to make it come true. You may have to work for it however." (and) "There is no such thing as a problem without a gift for you in its hand. You seek problems because you need their gifts." (Richard Bach, in Illusions - The Reluctant Messiah) |
Foley Engines responds to the BBB
On Tue, 4 May 2010 15:51:33 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote: I can't have ANY woman living her life pining after me the rest of her days. I really don't think you have anything to worry about. Casady |
Foley Engines responds to the BBB
On Sat, 1 May 2010 15:31:30 -0400, "Flying Pig"
wrote: "There is no such thing as a problem without a gift for you in its hand (Richard Bach) He can have my gifts from my cancer. I can barely move my head, thanks to 7000 REM of X-rays. Enough to kill in seconds if administered to the brain at one time. I am sure he would consider being fed liquid swill through a stomach tube a gift to be treasured. Most of what he has written is ****, some good. His best selling book, Seagull, was his worst to date. Biplane is good. The first science fiction bestseller was Stranger in a Strange Land, By Heinlein. I asked him where was the deep meaning a million idiots thought it had, and he said: It just proves I will do anything for money. Casady Casady |
Foley Engines responds to the BBB
"Richard Casady" wrote in message
... On Sat, 1 May 2010 15:31:30 -0400, "Flying Pig" wrote: "There is no such thing as a problem without a gift for you in its hand (Richard Bach) He can have my gifts from my cancer. I can barely move my head, thanks to 7000 REM of X-rays. Enough to kill in seconds if administered to the brain at one time. I am sure he would consider being fed liquid swill through a stomach tube a gift to be treasured. Most of what he has written is ****, some good. His best selling book, Seagull, was his worst to date. Biplane is good. The first science fiction bestseller was Stranger in a Strange Land, By Heinlein. I asked him where was the deep meaning a million idiots thought it had, and he said: It just proves I will do anything for money. Casady Casady I've heard of slow readers before, but 60 weeks takes the cake! ( On _Sat, 1 May 2010_ 15:31:30 -0400, "Flying Pig" wrote:) L8R Skip -- -- Morgan 461 #2 SV Flying Pig KI4MPC See our galleries at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery ! Follow us at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFlyingPigLog and/or http://groups.google.com/group/flyingpiglog The Society for the Preservation of Tithesis commends your ebriated and scrutible use of delible and defatigable, which are gainly, sipid and couth. We are gruntled and consolate that you have the ertia and eptitude to choose such putably pensible tithesis, which we parage. Stamp out Sesquipedalianism |
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