Help buying a boat - WA res - CA sales tax? Foreign use,.. WTF
 

Ahoy, I'm looking at a presently CA registered sailboat. It's 33', not
sure of displacement but it's a steel sloop so heavy. It's not USCG
documented but I think I want it to be. My residence is in WA state. I
hope to leave the boat in Mexico on the 10 year permit and not use it
in the USA at all. Well, maybe in San Diego for repairs or something
but mostly Mex and beyond until I run out of money or my yardarm falls
off.
Also, it was foreign built. I assume the Import extravaganza has
already been addressed when it became a CA registered vessel. Is this
circumstance treated differently when it becomes CG documented? I'd
appreciate any advice from people who've navigated this sticky, wreck
strewn reef before. Hoping to solve this without an attorney/marine
doc specialist.
Thanks as always for your time, ray.

Help buying a boat - WA res - CA sales tax? Foreign use,.. WTF
 

On Thu, 01 Oct 2009 14:11:01 -0400, wrote:

The Documentation Center is an example of a Government run
organization doing everything RIGHT. They are very helpful, and
pleasant to deal with.

That has been my experience also. A doc agent makes the job easy and
painless but you definitely can do it yourself. Your biggest
challenge is probably going to be dealing with CA sales tax issues.
Every state is different but there is probably a way for you to take
delivery of the boat in Mexico (or elsewhere) and avoid taxation if
you plan things out carefully. You may also find that you can take
delivery in CA if you leave within a certain time.

Help buying a boat - WA res - CA sales tax? Foreign use,.. WTF
 

"ray lunder" wrote in message
...
Ahoy, I'm looking at a presently CA registered sailboat. It's 33', not
sure of displacement but it's a steel sloop so heavy. It's not USCG
documented but I think I want it to be. My residence is in WA state. I
hope to leave the boat in Mexico on the 10 year permit and not use it
in the USA at all. Well, maybe in San Diego for repairs or something
but mostly Mex and beyond until I run out of money or my yardarm falls
off.
Also, it was foreign built. I assume the Import extravaganza has
already been addressed when it became a CA registered vessel. Is this
circumstance treated differently when it becomes CG documented? I'd
appreciate any advice from people who've navigated this sticky, wreck
strewn reef before. Hoping to solve this without an attorney/marine
doc specialist.
Thanks as always for your time, ray.


As others have said USCG documentation is pretty easily done. I believe the
fee if it's not a US hull is $500 for a waiver. I don't recall if there's a
sales tax issue. (I know there is if it's a new boat, but I don't think so
if it's a third party transaction.) There will likely be a yearly use tax
from the county. They treat it like property tax for houses. They get the
info directly from the Coast Guard if you get the USCG documentation.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Help buying a boat - WA res - CA sales tax? Foreign use,.. WTF
 

wrote in message
...
On Thu, 1 Oct 2009 11:54:05 -0700, "Capt. JG"
wrote:

"ray lunder" wrote in message
. ..
Ahoy, I'm looking at a presently CA registered sailboat. It's 33', not
sure of displacement but it's a steel sloop so heavy. It's not USCG
documented but I think I want it to be. My residence is in WA state. I
hope to leave the boat in Mexico on the 10 year permit and not use it
in the USA at all. Well, maybe in San Diego for repairs or something
but mostly Mex and beyond until I run out of money or my yardarm falls
off.
Also, it was foreign built. I assume the Import extravaganza has
already been addressed when it became a CA registered vessel. Is this
circumstance treated differently when it becomes CG documented? I'd
appreciate any advice from people who've navigated this sticky, wreck
strewn reef before. Hoping to solve this without an attorney/marine
doc specialist.
Thanks as always for your time, ray.


As others have said USCG documentation is pretty easily done. I believe
the
fee if it's not a US hull is $500 for a waiver. I don't recall if there's
a
sales tax issue. (I know there is if it's a new boat, but I don't think so
if it's a third party transaction.) There will likely be a yearly use tax
from the county. They treat it like property tax for houses. They get the
info directly from the Coast Guard if you get the USCG documentation.

The tax issues vary by state. In Connecticut, like many states, you
still have to register your boat. If it is documented, you only have
to display a small sticker showing that you have paid the taxes. In
Connecticut, that sticker is known as a "certificate of decal". No
state can compel you to display registration numbers on a documented
vessel. Connecticut does not get information from the CG for tax
purposes. They do it completely on their own. The only connection is
that Connecticut uses your documentation number anywhere they would
use a registration number for a non-documented boat, and they accept
the documentation as your title of ownership.

I have no idea what the tax laws or registration requirements are for
Washington.



Interesting. Here you don't have to register if you're documented. The DMV
scrambled around when I called them right after I bought the boat (which was
already Fed documented). After a few minutes, they found someone who
confirmed that they didn't care about it in that case.


--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Help buying a boat - WA res - CA sales tax? Foreign use,.. WTF
 

On Thu, 01 Oct 2009 14:11:01 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 01 Oct 2009 10:55:25 -0700, ray lunder
wrote:

Ahoy, I'm looking at a presently CA registered sailboat. It's 33', not
sure of displacement but it's a steel sloop so heavy. It's not USCG
documented but I think I want it to be. My residence is in WA state. I
hope to leave the boat in Mexico on the 10 year permit and not use it
in the USA at all. Well, maybe in San Diego for repairs or something
but mostly Mex and beyond until I run out of money or my yardarm falls
off.
Also, it was foreign built. I assume the Import extravaganza has
already been addressed when it became a CA registered vessel. Is this
circumstance treated differently when it becomes CG documented? I'd
appreciate any advice from people who've navigated this sticky, wreck
strewn reef before. Hoping to solve this without an attorney/marine
doc specialist.
Thanks as always for your time, ray.

You absolutely do not need an attorney or a "doc specialist" to do
this.

http://www.uscg.mil/hq/cg5/nvdc/

If you can't find your answers on this website, then it also has the
phone number. Use it.

I did use it. Took about 25 minutes to get through the robotic
obfiscation menu. Because it was foreign built they gave me the name
of a US Customs contact. After 4 phone messages he finally answered
the phone on day two. If I understood him correctly no foreign built
vessel may be USCG documented. There were other terms I couldn't
easily follow as their meanings seemed to change in the context of the
conversation. "US flagged", "CG endorsements". There were more but I
was too glazed to follow along by this time.
WA state has a "usage" fee for CG documented vessels, so you pay
twice. The fee is the same as the sales tax, which is prohibitive. You
are given some grace period for being in WA waters but no real means
of establishing when it starts.
I still don't know if I would have to pay CA sales tax in order to
transfer the title into my name.
Smooth sailing everyone.


The Documentation Center is an example of a Government run
organization doing everything RIGHT. They are very helpful, and
pleasant to deal with.

Help buying a boat - WA res - CA sales tax? Foreign use,.. WTF
 

Wayne.B wrote:
On Thu, 01 Oct 2009 14:11:01 -0400, wrote:

The Documentation Center is an example of a Government run
organization doing everything RIGHT. They are very helpful, and
pleasant to deal with.

That has been my experience also. A doc agent makes the job easy and
painless but you definitely can do it yourself. Your biggest
challenge is probably going to be dealing with CA sales tax issues.
Every state is different but there is probably a way for you to take
delivery of the boat in Mexico (or elsewhere) and avoid taxation if
you plan things out carefully. You may also find that you can take
delivery in CA if you leave within a certain time.



Actually, the biggest challenge in purchasing a documented vessel
is making sure it is clear of liens.

Other than that, the NVDV web site is all one would need.

Any questions, call them.

But I don't know of any safe was to avoid paying the taxes.

Help buying a boat - WA res - CA sales tax? Foreign use,.. WTF
 

"ray lunder" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 01 Oct 2009 14:11:01 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 01 Oct 2009 10:55:25 -0700, ray lunder
wrote:

Ahoy, I'm looking at a presently CA registered sailboat. It's 33', not
sure of displacement but it's a steel sloop so heavy. It's not USCG
documented but I think I want it to be. My residence is in WA state. I
hope to leave the boat in Mexico on the 10 year permit and not use it
in the USA at all. Well, maybe in San Diego for repairs or something
but mostly Mex and beyond until I run out of money or my yardarm falls
off.
Also, it was foreign built. I assume the Import extravaganza has
already been addressed when it became a CA registered vessel. Is this
circumstance treated differently when it becomes CG documented? I'd
appreciate any advice from people who've navigated this sticky, wreck
strewn reef before. Hoping to solve this without an attorney/marine
doc specialist.
Thanks as always for your time, ray.

You absolutely do not need an attorney or a "doc specialist" to do
this.

http://www.uscg.mil/hq/cg5/nvdc/

If you can't find your answers on this website, then it also has the
phone number. Use it.

I did use it. Took about 25 minutes to get through the robotic
obfiscation menu. Because it was foreign built they gave me the name
of a US Customs contact. After 4 phone messages he finally answered
the phone on day two. If I understood him correctly no foreign built
vessel may be USCG documented. There were other terms I couldn't
easily follow as their meanings seemed to change in the context of the
conversation. "US flagged", "CG endorsements". There were more but I
was too glazed to follow along by this time.
WA state has a "usage" fee for CG documented vessels, so you pay
twice. The fee is the same as the sales tax, which is prohibitive. You
are given some grace period for being in WA waters but no real means
of establishing when it starts.
I still don't know if I would have to pay CA sales tax in order to
transfer the title into my name.
Smooth sailing everyone.


The Documentation Center is an example of a Government run
organization doing everything RIGHT. They are very helpful, and
pleasant to deal with.



You understood incorrectly or he told you the wrong thing. You can get a
waiver for $500 (probably hasn't changed).

http://www.marad.dot.gov/ships_shipp...sel_Waiver.htm


--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Help buying a boat - WA res - CA sales tax? Foreign use,.. WTF
 

On Thu, 01 Oct 2009 13:37:07 -0700, ray lunder
wrote:

If I understood him correctly no foreign built
vessel may be USCG documented.

That is definitely not true. There are *many* documented, foreign
built vessels including my own which was built in Singapore. You
need to talk with someone else. Make sure they understand that this
is going to be a pleasure vessel, not in commercial service.

Help buying a boat - WA res - CA sales tax? Foreign use,.. WTF
 

On Thu, 1 Oct 2009 17:25:46 -0700, "Capt. JG"
wrote:

"ray lunder" wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 01 Oct 2009 14:11:01 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 01 Oct 2009 10:55:25 -0700, ray lunder
wrote:

Ahoy, I'm looking at a presently CA registered sailboat. It's 33', not
sure of displacement but it's a steel sloop so heavy. It's not USCG
documented but I think I want it to be. My residence is in WA state. I
hope to leave the boat in Mexico on the 10 year permit and not use it
in the USA at all. Well, maybe in San Diego for repairs or something
but mostly Mex and beyond until I run out of money or my yardarm falls
off.
Also, it was foreign built. I assume the Import extravaganza has
already been addressed when it became a CA registered vessel. Is this
circumstance treated differently when it becomes CG documented? I'd
appreciate any advice from people who've navigated this sticky, wreck
strewn reef before. Hoping to solve this without an attorney/marine
doc specialist.
Thanks as always for your time, ray.

You absolutely do not need an attorney or a "doc specialist" to do
this.

http://www.uscg.mil/hq/cg5/nvdc/

If you can't find your answers on this website, then it also has the
phone number. Use it.

I did use it. Took about 25 minutes to get through the robotic
obfiscation menu. Because it was foreign built they gave me the name
of a US Customs contact. After 4 phone messages he finally answered
the phone on day two. If I understood him correctly no foreign built
vessel may be USCG documented. There were other terms I couldn't
easily follow as their meanings seemed to change in the context of the
conversation. "US flagged", "CG endorsements". There were more but I
was too glazed to follow along by this time.
WA state has a "usage" fee for CG documented vessels, so you pay
twice. The fee is the same as the sales tax, which is prohibitive. You
are given some grace period for being in WA waters but no real means
of establishing when it starts.
I still don't know if I would have to pay CA sales tax in order to
transfer the title into my name.
Smooth sailing everyone.


The Documentation Center is an example of a Government run
organization doing everything RIGHT. They are very helpful, and
pleasant to deal with.



You understood incorrectly or he told you the wrong thing. You can get a
waiver for $500 (probably hasn't changed).

http://www.marad.dot.gov/ships_shipp...sel_Waiver.htm

The waiver is for vessels in commercial use. I assume my endorsement
would be for recreational use. (I'm not a company, just a would be
sailor).

Help buying a boat - WA res - CA sales tax? Foreign use,.. WTF
 

On Thu, 01 Oct 2009 22:53:18 -0700, ray lunder
wrote:

On Thu, 1 Oct 2009 17:25:46 -0700, "Capt. JG"
wrote:

"ray lunder" wrote in message
. ..
On Thu, 01 Oct 2009 14:11:01 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 01 Oct 2009 10:55:25 -0700, ray lunder
wrote:

Ahoy, I'm looking at a presently CA registered sailboat. It's 33', not
sure of displacement but it's a steel sloop so heavy. It's not USCG
documented but I think I want it to be. My residence is in WA state. I
hope to leave the boat in Mexico on the 10 year permit and not use it
in the USA at all. Well, maybe in San Diego for repairs or something
but mostly Mex and beyond until I run out of money or my yardarm falls
off.
Also, it was foreign built. I assume the Import extravaganza has
already been addressed when it became a CA registered vessel. Is this
circumstance treated differently when it becomes CG documented? I'd
appreciate any advice from people who've navigated this sticky, wreck
strewn reef before. Hoping to solve this without an attorney/marine
doc specialist.
Thanks as always for your time, ray.

You absolutely do not need an attorney or a "doc specialist" to do
this.

http://www.uscg.mil/hq/cg5/nvdc/

If you can't find your answers on this website, then it also has the
phone number. Use it.

I did use it. Took about 25 minutes to get through the robotic
obfiscation menu. Because it was foreign built they gave me the name
of a US Customs contact. After 4 phone messages he finally answered
the phone on day two. If I understood him correctly no foreign built
vessel may be USCG documented. There were other terms I couldn't
easily follow as their meanings seemed to change in the context of the
conversation. "US flagged", "CG endorsements". There were more but I
was too glazed to follow along by this time.
WA state has a "usage" fee for CG documented vessels, so you pay
twice. The fee is the same as the sales tax, which is prohibitive. You
are given some grace period for being in WA waters but no real means
of establishing when it starts.
I still don't know if I would have to pay CA sales tax in order to
transfer the title into my name.
Smooth sailing everyone.


The Documentation Center is an example of a Government run
organization doing everything RIGHT. They are very helpful, and
pleasant to deal with.



You understood incorrectly or he told you the wrong thing. You can get a
waiver for $500 (probably hasn't changed).

http://www.marad.dot.gov/ships_shipp...sel_Waiver.htm

The waiver is for vessels in commercial use. I assume my endorsement
would be for recreational use. (I'm not a company, just a would be
sailor).

No waiver needed at all. That information is on the website of the
Documentation Center. I just looked to double check. As I said
originally, the Documentation has it's act VERY together.

CG-1261: Builder's Certification & First Transfer of Title (REV.2/92)
For INITIAL DOCUMENTATION ONLY. Must be completed by BUILDER of the
vessel. If more than one builder, each one must complete a form.
Evidence of U.S. build is required for all Fishery and Coastwise
vessels.

Honestly, if you don't approach this as a hassle, it won't be. The
most complicated thing about documenting a boat is the measuring.
That's not so hard, either, if you approach it methodically.