in-mast furlers
 

Man, I hate them. Perhaps some are better than others, but the last
experience I had with them was that you have to be dead into the wind for
unfurling, but especially for furling. There's so much friction between the
sail and the track groove that I was concerned we would damage the sail.
Headed directly into the wind isn't always a problem, but it can be when the
wind is shifting constantly (an example is the hurricane gulch area on the
bay). In other areas, this is also possible, so it seems like it's a lot of
pain for very little gain.

I also wasn't thrilled with the outhaul and furling lines (a continuous line
that's got two clutches). We couldn't get the main all the way out (the clew
position is marked on the boom). At first I thought it was mis-marked, but
then when we anchored for lunch, I went up there and we examined it closely.
There was still a wrap or two inside the mast. Sitting at anchor, we tugged
and heaved and finally got it all the way out, then furled it back and
unfurled it a couple of times to ensure it was going to work when we needed
it. Maybe there's an adjustment, but not in the middle of a class.

The furling mechanism has a "ratchet" position, which is basically the
outhaul lock for furling, and a free-style position for unfurling. So,
bottom line, you still have send someone up there to switch it if you need
to power up or if you need to set the reef point. With normal non-furling
mains, you might need to go forward (or not, depending on your reefing
system), but I thought the whole point was to make things more simple.
Doesn't seem that simple to me, not to mention the position switch is none
too easy to use - it seemed to be pretty stiff.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

in-mast furlers
 

On Tue, 30 Jun 2009 13:26:31 -0700, "Capt. JG"
wrote:

Man, I hate them. Perhaps some are better than others, but the last
experience I had with them was that you have to be dead into the wind for
unfurling, but especially for furling. There's so much friction between the
sail and the track groove that I was concerned we would damage the sail.
Headed directly into the wind isn't always a problem, but it can be when the
wind is shifting constantly (an example is the hurricane gulch area on the
bay). In other areas, this is also possible, so it seems like it's a lot of
pain for very little gain.

I also wasn't thrilled with the outhaul and furling lines (a continuous line
that's got two clutches). We couldn't get the main all the way out (the clew
position is marked on the boom). At first I thought it was mis-marked, but
then when we anchored for lunch, I went up there and we examined it closely.
There was still a wrap or two inside the mast. Sitting at anchor, we tugged
and heaved and finally got it all the way out, then furled it back and
unfurled it a couple of times to ensure it was going to work when we needed
it. Maybe there's an adjustment, but not in the middle of a class.

The furling mechanism has a "ratchet" position, which is basically the
outhaul lock for furling, and a free-style position for unfurling. So,
bottom line, you still have send someone up there to switch it if you need
to power up or if you need to set the reef point. With normal non-furling
mains, you might need to go forward (or not, depending on your reefing
system), but I thought the whole point was to make things more simple.
Doesn't seem that simple to me, not to mention the position switch is none
too easy to use - it seemed to be pretty stiff.

Interesting as in-mast furlers are becoming more and more common among
the boats that I see here (and you got to sail quite a long way to get
here) and not to mention that Amel installs in-mast furlers as
standard.

I'm not quite sure what make/model of furler you are using as all the
manual systems I see use two lines, furling and outhaul/unfurling, and
both lines run back to the cockpit.

The system I built is not "in-mast" and of course doesn't have any
sail to housing friction but I furl and unfurl alone with no
particular problems. I do use a cockpit mounted winch to get the last
few inches on the outhaul, but then most slab furling systems use a
"furling winch" for the same purpose.

I don't believe that a furler is the theoretical "best" form of sail
reducing but I can tell you from personal experience that it does
result in more sail being up for longer periods then the old slab
reefing system. Mainly because it is easier physically to make or
reduce sail so I reef later and make sail earlier then I would with
the old system.

And talking about winches and difficulty in getting sail set, I defy
you to get the last few inches of main sail hauled up without a winch
on my boat with the old slab reefing system.

Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)

in-mast furlers
 

"Bruce In Bangkok" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 30 Jun 2009 13:26:31 -0700, "Capt. JG"
wrote:

Man, I hate them. Perhaps some are better than others, but the last
experience I had with them was that you have to be dead into the wind for
unfurling, but especially for furling. There's so much friction between
the
sail and the track groove that I was concerned we would damage the sail.
Headed directly into the wind isn't always a problem, but it can be when
the
wind is shifting constantly (an example is the hurricane gulch area on the
bay). In other areas, this is also possible, so it seems like it's a lot
of
pain for very little gain.

I also wasn't thrilled with the outhaul and furling lines (a continuous
line
that's got two clutches). We couldn't get the main all the way out (the
clew
position is marked on the boom). At first I thought it was mis-marked, but
then when we anchored for lunch, I went up there and we examined it
closely.
There was still a wrap or two inside the mast. Sitting at anchor, we
tugged
and heaved and finally got it all the way out, then furled it back and
unfurled it a couple of times to ensure it was going to work when we
needed
it. Maybe there's an adjustment, but not in the middle of a class.

The furling mechanism has a "ratchet" position, which is basically the
outhaul lock for furling, and a free-style position for unfurling. So,
bottom line, you still have send someone up there to switch it if you need
to power up or if you need to set the reef point. With normal non-furling
mains, you might need to go forward (or not, depending on your reefing
system), but I thought the whole point was to make things more simple.
Doesn't seem that simple to me, not to mention the position switch is none
too easy to use - it seemed to be pretty stiff.

Interesting as in-mast furlers are becoming more and more common among
the boats that I see here (and you got to sail quite a long way to get
here) and not to mention that Amel installs in-mast furlers as
standard.

I know they are. Perhaps it's just a crappy mechanism. It would match the
boat in that respect.


I'm not quite sure what make/model of furler you are using as all the
manual systems I see use two lines, furling and outhaul/unfurling, and
both lines run back to the cockpit.

The system I built is not "in-mast" and of course doesn't have any
sail to housing friction but I furl and unfurl alone with no
particular problems. I do use a cockpit mounted winch to get the last
few inches on the outhaul, but then most slab furling systems use a
"furling winch" for the same purpose.

Do tell... what kind of system did you build? Do you have pictures?

I don't believe that a furler is the theoretical "best" form of sail
reducing but I can tell you from personal experience that it does
result in more sail being up for longer periods then the old slab
reefing system. Mainly because it is easier physically to make or
reduce sail so I reef later and make sail earlier then I would with
the old system.

In some respects that's good and others bad. If one waits too long and
there's a problem with the mechanism, well....

And talking about winches and difficulty in getting sail set, I defy
you to get the last few inches of main sail hauled up without a winch
on my boat with the old slab reefing system.

I can't get my main to the top without a winch either, unless there's
minimal wind.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

in-mast furlers
 

FWIW. my boat had in mast furling when I bought it. It took a while
to become accustomed to it, but it works. If I had my druthers I
would have a furl boom system. I found that you only furl and unfurl
on a starboard tack . A real pain if the wind is off the port. We can
furl, unfurl,and reef from the cockpit and I do like that. You give
up a battened main. The boom furl has none of the aforementioned
drawbacks and the weight aloft is also less.

in-mast furlers
 

"Capt. JG" wrote:

I can't get my main to the top without a winch either, unless
there's minimal wind.

External halyards and good slide/track mechanism makes most of that go
away.

Had a 30ft Seafarer with a high aspect sail plan (small main, only 10
ft boom) and external halyards.

Never had a problem with the main.


Lew

in-mast furlers
 

"pirate" wrote in message
...
FWIW. my boat had in mast furling when I bought it. It took a while
to become accustomed to it, but it works. If I had my druthers I
would have a furl boom system. I found that you only furl and unfurl
on a starboard tack . A real pain if the wind is off the port. We can
furl, unfurl,and reef from the cockpit and I do like that. You give
up a battened main. The boom furl has none of the aforementioned
drawbacks and the weight aloft is also less.


I've only sailed on one boat with boom furling... must agree. I like it a
lot better, and if you need to drop the sail, you can still do it if the
furler fails. It does increase windage, due to boom size, but perhaps that's
not that big of a deal.

Strange about starboard vs. port. That wasn't true for us last time, as we
had equally as difficult a time on both tacks, high though they were.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

in-mast furlers
 

"Lew Hodgett" wrote in message
...

"Capt. JG" wrote:

I can't get my main to the top without a winch either, unless there's
minimal wind.

External halyards and good slide/track mechanism makes most of that go
away.

Had a 30ft Seafarer with a high aspect sail plan (small main, only 10 ft
boom) and external halyards.

Never had a problem with the main.


Lew




I have an in-mast halyard. I need to improve the slide/track situation.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

in-mast furlers
 

On Tue, 30 Jun 2009 18:32:43 -0700 (PDT), pirate
wrote:

FWIW. my boat had in mast furling when I bought it. It took a while
to become accustomed to it, but it works. If I had my druthers I
would have a furl boom system. I found that you only furl and unfurl
on a starboard tack . A real pain if the wind is off the port. We can
furl, unfurl,and reef from the cockpit and I do like that. You give
up a battened main. The boom furl has none of the aforementioned
drawbacks and the weight aloft is also less.

There was a boat in the marina. Built in N.Z. with in boom reefing.
The two blokes that owned it had built it to participate in the
"cruising boat" class in the various regattas sailed in Asia, so I
assume that some thought had been given to the efficiency of the
reefing system - they had at least two mains that I saw. One a purpose
built racing sail.

I talked to both the owners and the only comment that they had about
the reefing system was that the makers had recommended that reefing be
done at less then (I believe) 35 degrees of boom angle.

Other then the dorky looking boom I thought it was probably the most
efficient of the roll up reefing systems.

Funny, you know. I remember when roll up on the boom reefing systems
were being bad mouthed in the sailing community. Now it is high tech
:-)


Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)

in-mast furlers
 

On Tue, 30 Jun 2009 21:20:45 -0700, "Capt. JG"
wrote:

"Lew Hodgett" wrote in message
...

"Capt. JG" wrote:

I can't get my main to the top without a winch either, unless there's
minimal wind.

External halyards and good slide/track mechanism makes most of that go
away.

Had a 30ft Seafarer with a high aspect sail plan (small main, only 10 ft
boom) and external halyards.

Never had a problem with the main.


Lew

I have an in-mast halyard. I need to improve the slide/track situation.

Well mine was a high tech design. The boom was on a slide so you wound
sail and boom up to the "black band" and then you tensioned the bluff
with a Cunningham attached to the bottom of the gooseneck.

With 40 ft. of luff length and a nice strong boom and gooseneck (read
heavy) and a cruising sail it was not a trivial project the get the
whole kit and kaboodle wound up and cleated. Then of course you have
to tension the luff.

Reefing was a particular pain as the first couple of feet of halyard
just let the boom descend. then pull in the reef and then you got to
go through the whole rigamoral of hoisting and tensioning again.

One of the main reasons I built the roller reefing system.

Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)

in-mast furlers
 

"Capt. JG" wrote:


I have an in-mast halyard. I need to improve the slide/track
situation.

I forget the name of the outfit I was looking at, they were based in
FL.

They would send you a plastic gage to get the correct size of your
track.

Try this one, it rings a bell:

http://preview.tinyurl.com/l6k27m

Lew

in-mast furlers
 

"Lew Hodgett" wrote in message
...

"Capt. JG" wrote:


I have an in-mast halyard. I need to improve the slide/track situation.

I forget the name of the outfit I was looking at, they were based in FL.

They would send you a plastic gage to get the correct size of your track.

Try this one, it rings a bell:

http://preview.tinyurl.com/l6k27m

Lew




Yeah, I've been looking at these... I believe Salty recommended it as well.
Perhaps next season. It's not that difficult that I'd spend the money on it
right now. I was thinking I'd wait for when I need to replace my main, but
that's going to be a while.


--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

in-mast furlers
 

"Capt. JG" wrote:


Yeah, I've been looking at these... I believe Salty recommended it
as well.

What caught my eye was their business model.

Pick a problem in a specialty market, then provide a solution.

Somehow I think you would be happy with them.

Lew

in-mast furlers
 

On Tue, 30 Jun 2009 21:20:45 -0700, "Capt. JG"
wrote:

"Lew Hodgett" wrote in message
...

"Capt. JG" wrote:

I can't get my main to the top without a winch either, unless there's
minimal wind.

External halyards and good slide/track mechanism makes most of that go
away.

Had a 30ft Seafarer with a high aspect sail plan (small main, only 10 ft
boom) and external halyards.

Never had a problem with the main.


Lew




I have an in-mast halyard. I need to improve the slide/track situation.

Tides Marine has an excellent system for a LOT less moola than Harken.
Makes the main feel like it's not even attached to the mast. About $25
a foot, complete, and you can install it yourself.

in-mast furlers
 

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
easolutions...
"pirate" wrote in message
...
FWIW. my boat had in mast furling when I bought it. It took a while
to become accustomed to it, but it works. If I had my druthers I
would have a furl boom system. I found that you only furl and unfurl
on a starboard tack . A real pain if the wind is off the port. We can
furl, unfurl,and reef from the cockpit and I do like that. You give
up a battened main. The boom furl has none of the aforementioned
drawbacks and the weight aloft is also less.


I've only sailed on one boat with boom furling... must agree. I like it a
lot better, and if you need to drop the sail, you can still do it if the
furler fails. It does increase windage, due to boom size, but perhaps
that's not that big of a deal.

Strange about starboard vs. port. That wasn't true for us last time, as we
had equally as difficult a time on both tacks, high though they were.

I had a 34' boat with boom furling for about 14 years. The roll was achieved
with a worm gear which allowed you to stop anywhere without it running back.
The control was on the starboard side which makes sense especially if you
are shorthanded because you have right of way against anyone on port tack
and thus more likely to finish the reefing without having to run back to the
helm. The disadvantage was that after rolling the equivalent of a couple of
reefs the end of the boom had come down so it was almost brushing the top of
the spray dodger.
However this effect can be minimised by adding padding either to the sail
itself or affixed to the boom

in-mast furlers
 

"Lew Hodgett" wrote in message
...
"Capt. JG" wrote:


Yeah, I've been looking at these... I believe Salty recommended it as
well.

What caught my eye was their business model.

Pick a problem in a specialty market, then provide a solution.

Somehow I think you would be happy with them.

Lew




Maybe. But, I ususally create my own problems. lol

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

in-mast furlers
 

wrote in message
...
On Tue, 30 Jun 2009 21:20:45 -0700, "Capt. JG"
wrote:

"Lew Hodgett" wrote in message
...

"Capt. JG" wrote:

I can't get my main to the top without a winch either, unless there's
minimal wind.

External halyards and good slide/track mechanism makes most of that go
away.

Had a 30ft Seafarer with a high aspect sail plan (small main, only 10 ft
boom) and external halyards.

Never had a problem with the main.


Lew




I have an in-mast halyard. I need to improve the slide/track situation.

Tides Marine has an excellent system for a LOT less moola than Harken.
Makes the main feel like it's not even attached to the mast. About $25
a foot, complete, and you can install it yourself.



Did you install the receptacle on the sail yourself or did you have the loft
do it?


--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

in-mast furlers
 

wrote in message
...
On Wed, 1 Jul 2009 09:50:00 -0700, "Capt. JG"
wrote:

wrote in message
. ..
On Tue, 30 Jun 2009 21:20:45 -0700, "Capt. JG"
wrote:

"Lew Hodgett" wrote in message
...

"Capt. JG" wrote:

I can't get my main to the top without a winch either, unless there's
minimal wind.

External halyards and good slide/track mechanism makes most of that go
away.

Had a 30ft Seafarer with a high aspect sail plan (small main, only 10
ft
boom) and external halyards.

Never had a problem with the main.


Lew




I have an in-mast halyard. I need to improve the slide/track situation.

Tides Marine has an excellent system for a LOT less moola than Harken.
Makes the main feel like it's not even attached to the mast. About $25
a foot, complete, and you can install it yourself.



Did you install the receptacle on the sail yourself or did you have the
loft
do it?

Did it all myself. Only problem I had with the installation was that I
measured a little too tight for how the track fit into the mast, and
had a bit of a struggle getting it all the way up the mast slot. In
retrospect, It really doesn't need to be a terribly precise or tight
fit at all. I called and spoke to the guy who custom cuts the track a
few times, and he was great to deal with. I would recommend that you
talk to him on the phone after you take the measurements to tell him
what you came up with. He may even have measurements from a sister
ship to compare to what you find.

They send you a kit with plastic gauges and instructions for the
measuring. I think they charge a small fee for the kit, but ceredit it
back from your order.

If I had to do it over, I would take the measurements and ask them to
send a short sample piece first, especially if you play to install it
with the mast up. I'm guessing they would probably be willing to do
that. They really seem to want happy customers.



Sounds like a great company to work with. I've found a few of those out
there... actually care about customers or potential customers.

My main concern (slight pun intended) is the sail attachment. Reading their
website, they recommend the loft do it, which is fine with me. That would
add a bit to the cost, but since I don't have time these days, money is the
second choice. :-)


--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

in-mast furlers
 

wrote in message
...
On Wed, 1 Jul 2009 10:24:54 -0700, "Capt. JG"
wrote:

wrote in message
. ..
On Wed, 1 Jul 2009 09:50:00 -0700, "Capt. JG"
wrote:

wrote in message
m...
On Tue, 30 Jun 2009 21:20:45 -0700, "Capt. JG"
wrote:

"Lew Hodgett" wrote in message
. ..

"Capt. JG" wrote:

I can't get my main to the top without a winch either, unless
there's
minimal wind.

External halyards and good slide/track mechanism makes most of that
go
away.

Had a 30ft Seafarer with a high aspect sail plan (small main, only
10
ft
boom) and external halyards.

Never had a problem with the main.


Lew




I have an in-mast halyard. I need to improve the slide/track
situation.

Tides Marine has an excellent system for a LOT less moola than Harken.
Makes the main feel like it's not even attached to the mast. About $25
a foot, complete, and you can install it yourself.



Did you install the receptacle on the sail yourself or did you have the
loft
do it?

Did it all myself. Only problem I had with the installation was that I
measured a little too tight for how the track fit into the mast, and
had a bit of a struggle getting it all the way up the mast slot. In
retrospect, It really doesn't need to be a terribly precise or tight
fit at all. I called and spoke to the guy who custom cuts the track a
few times, and he was great to deal with. I would recommend that you
talk to him on the phone after you take the measurements to tell him
what you came up with. He may even have measurements from a sister
ship to compare to what you find.

They send you a kit with plastic gauges and instructions for the
measuring. I think they charge a small fee for the kit, but ceredit it
back from your order.

If I had to do it over, I would take the measurements and ask them to
send a short sample piece first, especially if you play to install it
with the mast up. I'm guessing they would probably be willing to do
that. They really seem to want happy customers.



Sounds like a great company to work with. I've found a few of those out
there... actually care about customers or potential customers.

My main concern (slight pun intended) is the sail attachment. Reading
their
website, they recommend the loft do it, which is fine with me. That would
add a bit to the cost, but since I don't have time these days, money is
the
second choice. :-)

I didn't find that part of the job difficult at all, and wonder to
this day why they recommend havng the loft do that. I snipped off my
existing plastic slugs and simply used the remaining nylon web loops
that had held them, for the new slides, which mount using a pin with
cotter rings at each end. The batten swivels wrere no big deal either.
They pretty much covered where the old batten swivels had been, as
they are slightly larger.

Anyone with half a brain can do it, so you're IN! G



I think I think; therefore, I think I am.


--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com