Wind Gen
Do wind gens do the job? If you anchor, you tend to anchor out of the
wind. To be effective, you need 10+ knots of wind. If you are motoring, the alternator will put out a lot more than a wind gen. Wind gens are expensive and in some cases, quite noisy. They need to be mounted high enough to be out of the way and be able to catch the wind which makes them more difficult to service. It all makes one wonder. The one good thing is they work at night when solar doesn't. G |
(solar and) Wind Gen
"Gordon" wrote in message
... Do wind gens do the job? If you anchor, you tend to anchor out of the wind. To be effective, you need 10+ knots of wind. If you are motoring, the alternator will put out a lot more than a wind gen. Wind gens are expensive and in some cases, quite noisy. They need to be mounted high enough to be out of the way and be able to catch the wind which makes them more difficult to service. It all makes one wonder. The one good thing is they work at night when solar doesn't. G Hi, y'all, This question (which included discussion on solar) came up in a list I'm on a while ago. This was my response to the poster who had reliable 15-30 knot winds, but was very far north (little solar time in the winter, and not great angles at any time): Hi, Bernie, and list, Just like in real estate, location is everything. The angle of the sun has a significant impact on the power generation possible from panels. If you can manually aim them all the time, they're very good. If you've got consistent 15-30 where you're located (most folks try to anchor in more protected areas so that many don't get the full benefit of wind), I highly recommend the KISS, sold in the US by svhotwire.com, John Gambill ). In 15-30, consistent, with it on our arch, we'd get 10-30A. The sweet spot is about 25knots, as it picks up rapidly over 15 knots. See the output curve on the manufacturer's site. http://www.kissenergy.com/OutputCurve.html I can't comment on the other units you cite, not having used them. I can say that our KISS has had no troubles, but there are commonly available repair parts (automotive bearings and rectifier, and perhaps other parts, too; I don't recall beyond those). They're much quieter at those wind levels, perhaps because it's a big blade footprint allowing slower revs, and will, unlike some we see shutting down at 15knots, keep going up to 30 before shutting down (heat protection). You can also set the rectifier for half-output which would allow it to operate higher, or, just use the leash to wrap it to be offset (keep the vane from pointing it directly into the wind) and keep it running effectively at much higher winds, as we did during Hanna. We have a relatively high electrical usage, including three computers, and our 370W solar, fixed (no aiming) and KISS keep us full enough to run the microwave here (about 24* sun angle at noon). In late August, in Charleston, we got 20A from the solar, for a frame of reference. HTH. L8R Skip, on wifi in Big Majors through Staniel Cay Yacht Club Going further, if you're sailing, both can generate power, but the wind will do it at night. Many of the non-KISS windgens top out at 4A, hardly enough to even think about for us. In the case of KISS, power generation doesn't really begin until 7-8 knots, at which point it's a very steep climb on the output curve - nearly straight line. They (others) also shut down in anything more than about 12 knots - it's really weird (for us, anyway) to see windgens merrily whirling and then suddenly stop for several minutes. So, you're correct about the anchorage issue. We've never been particularly concerned about that, especially if we're going to be in a tropical environment; wind is good :{)) - but if there were a lot of fetch, we would, indeed, try to get behind some breakwater geography... HTH L8R Skip, ashore, doing family duty, to return to Flying Pig June 9 for routine maintenance chores and thence back to the Bahamas -- Morgan 461 #2 SV Flying Pig KI4MPC See our galleries at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery ! Follow us at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFlyingPigLog and/or http://groups.google.com/group/flyingpiglog "Believe me, my young friend, there is *nothing*-absolutely nothing-half so much worth doing as simply messing, messing-about-in-boats; messing about in boats-or *with* boats. In or out of 'em, it doesn't matter. Nothing seems really to matter, that's the charm of it. Whether you get away, or whether you don't; whether you arrive at your destination or whether you reach somewhere else, or whether you never get anywhere at all, you're always busy, and you never do anything in particular; and when you've done it there's always something else to do, and you can do it if you like, but you'd much better not." |
Wind Gen
"Gordon" wrote in message
... Do wind gens do the job? If you anchor, you tend to anchor out of the wind. To be effective, you need 10+ knots of wind. If you are motoring, the alternator will put out a lot more than a wind gen. Wind gens are expensive and in some cases, quite noisy. They need to be mounted high enough to be out of the way and be able to catch the wind which makes them more difficult to service. It all makes one wonder. The one good thing is they work at night when solar doesn't. G The only "job" wind generators do well is disturb the peace and quite of an otherwise peaceful anchorage. Look around at any and all sailboats using wind generators and you will see selfish, inconsiderate jerks who think their energy hog habits take precedence over the peace and quite of dozens of boaters who have sensible energy requirements. To put it bluntly, almost without exception, boats with noisy wind generators are inhabited by assholes. Wilbur Hubbard |
(solar and) Wind Gen
"Flying Pig" wrote in news:gvek64$tl$1
@news.eternal-september.org: Skip, on wifi in Big Majors through Staniel Cay Yacht Club I've been aboard Flying Pig for many days as it passed through Charleston a while back. Otherpower.com has the wind genny to match Skip and Lydia's power hunger....(c;] http://www.otherpower.com/20page1.html Noise? What noise?? "It went up with no problems. So far so good. It starts to furl around 2KW output (a heavier tail would help with this). The alternator seems to stall the blades a bit (which we expected) in higher winds. The best output I've seen yet is just over 3KW in 'moderate winds' (we've not had any real winds here yet) and in low winds it seems excellent. In low winds its producing about twice the power that my 17' machine does. I attribute that to more swept area, a higher tower, and a better tower location. In higher winds they do about the same. The blades always turn pretty slowly and you cannot hear them ever - you can hear the alternator grumble though -but it's not annoying. I don't think I've seen over 200 rpm from it yet - though I've yet to check. I'll do a bit more testing at some point and update this page. Since putting this up I've moved my power system and unhooked my PV solar. It seems that even in the calm summer winds this machine is producing all the power we need, and between the two wind turbines I have surplus." Hell, with 3KW of power, just trash all the sails and mount it to the top of the mainmast. Remove the diesel and install an appropriate traction motor and transmission out of a Prius! She'll do hull speed all the time, not just when the wind's stiff....EVEN FASTER INTO THE WIND! 3KW'll even power Lydia's laptop!....(c;] -- ----- Larry If a man goes way out into the woods all alone and says something, is it still wrong, even though no woman hears him? |
Wind Gen
On Mon, 25 May 2009 13:47:17 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote: The only "job" wind generators do well is disturb the peace and quite of an otherwise peaceful anchorage. Some are quieter than others. |
Wind Gen
On Mon, 25 May 2009 22:05:21 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote: On Mon, 25 May 2009 13:47:17 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard" wrote: The only "job" wind generators do well is disturb the peace and quite of an otherwise peaceful anchorage. Some are quieter than others. Wilbur is not one of the quiet ones. |
Wind Gen
Wilbur should sign his Donor card. He is a perfect asshole.
|
Wind Gen
"Wilbur Hubbard" wrote
boats with noisy wind generators are inhabited by assholes. So what model are you using? |
Wind Gen
On Mon, 25 May 2009 13:47:17 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote: The only "job" wind generators do well is disturb the peace and quite of an otherwise peaceful anchorage. Look around at any and all sailboats using wind generators and you will see selfish, inconsiderate jerks who think their energy hog habits take precedence over the peace and quite of dozens of boaters who have sensible energy requirements. To put it bluntly, almost without exception, boats with noisy wind generators are inhabited by assholes. The ironic thing is the 2MW units the local power company owns are actually pretty quiet. Just a soft whoosh three times a second, and a little whine from the gears. Of course, if you put one of those high revving yacht jobs on a 200 foot mast, it might not be so loud. The high rev classic that pumped water on my uncles place wasn't super loud. I don't remember much noise from the actual turbine, but the rod to the pump clanked. I had a neighbor with a Rebel [first of the fiberglass sailboats, 16 ft, 700 lbs.], and the halyard beat on the mast day after day, year after year. Nobody cared. Casady Casady |
Wind Gen
On May 26, 10:18*am, Richard Casady
wrote: On Mon, 25 May 2009 13:47:17 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard" wrote: The only "job" wind generators do well is disturb the peace and quite of an otherwise peaceful anchorage. Look around at any and all sailboats using wind generators and you will see selfish, inconsiderate jerks who think their energy hog habits take precedence over the peace and quite of dozens of boaters who have sensible energy requirements. .. I had a neighbor with a Rebel [first of the fiberglass sailboats, 16 ft, 700 lbs.], and the halyard beat on the mast day after day, year after year. Nobody cared. We have a few wind gens here in the marina and they have never made any annoying noise until the winds hit 110-120 in gusts. Then they sounded like an indy car at full rev's until it came apart. Being it was upwind I had a few seconds warning to expect a strong gust. A few days later I found the field winding to it about 300 yards upwind from the boat. I love the sound of a marina full of lanyard slapping sailboats, better than wind chimes... it drives the power boaters mad ;0) Joe Casady Casady |
Wind Gen
There are two oldish wind gens across the from my boat. Both were running
last night in fairly steady 15-20 kts. Didn't hear them at all. "Joe" wrote in message ... On May 26, 10:18 am, Richard Casady wrote: On Mon, 25 May 2009 13:47:17 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard" wrote: The only "job" wind generators do well is disturb the peace and quite of an otherwise peaceful anchorage. Look around at any and all sailboats using wind generators and you will see selfish, inconsiderate jerks who think their energy hog habits take precedence over the peace and quite of dozens of boaters who have sensible energy requirements. .. I had a neighbor with a Rebel [first of the fiberglass sailboats, 16 ft, 700 lbs.], and the halyard beat on the mast day after day, year after year. Nobody cared. We have a few wind gens here in the marina and they have never made any annoying noise until the winds hit 110-120 in gusts. Then they sounded like an indy car at full rev's until it came apart. Being it was upwind I had a few seconds warning to expect a strong gust. A few days later I found the field winding to it about 300 yards upwind from the boat. I love the sound of a marina full of lanyard slapping sailboats, better than wind chimes... it drives the power boaters mad ;0) Joe Casady Casady -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com |
Wind Gen
On Tue, 26 May 2009 10:18:33 -0500, Richard Casady
wrote: On Mon, 25 May 2009 13:47:17 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard" wrote: The only "job" wind generators do well is disturb the peace and quite of an otherwise peaceful anchorage. Look around at any and all sailboats using wind generators and you will see selfish, inconsiderate jerks who think their energy hog habits take precedence over the peace and quite of dozens of boaters who have sensible energy requirements. To put it bluntly, almost without exception, boats with noisy wind generators are inhabited by assholes. The ironic thing is the 2MW units the local power company owns are actually pretty quiet. Just a soft whoosh three times a second, and a little whine from the gears. Of course, if you put one of those high revving yacht jobs on a 200 foot mast, it might not be so loud. The high rev classic that pumped water on my uncles place wasn't super loud. I don't remember much noise from the actual turbine, but the rod to the pump clanked. I had a neighbor with a Rebel [first of the fiberglass sailboats, 16 ft, 700 lbs.], and the halyard beat on the mast day after day, year after year. Nobody cared. Casady Casady I suppose that if one were sailing off across the pacific one might be a bit less concerned about wind generator noise and more interested in the amps it produced. After all 3500 miles with 12 MPH winds, as Peter just experienced -- the batteries might get run down a tad. Of course, in the marina it makes little sense to run them as power is available right there at the pole :-) Cheers, Bruce in Bangkok (bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom) |
Wind Gen
(Prior conversation left below for context, long ago)
One of my contacts, in St. Augustine, is absolutely smitten with the D400 unit. Purports to be absolutely silent (based on his observation directly, and telling the story of two friends who'd just installed a KISS and D400, went around some harbour listening to various of each and the one with the KISS called his installer back and went for a 400), and happy up to 40kts, putting out up to 500 watts. Costs nearly double the KISS - and my anal balancing of the blade has, thus far (through about 30 knots) had it VERY quiet. During the last couple of weeks with the wind up in the 20s frequently, it's also allowed us to not run our Honda eu2000i at all, and between the solar (370w) and the KISS, not only keep our batteries at "full" but even got into the slightly positive cumulative AH range (~30), nearly never seen other than during equalization. This is much more the nature of our expected use, but, of course, we've yet to make it to the EC, so we don't experience this all the time. It takes gusts over 30 to make our prop sound a bit like a small airplane's, but otherwise it's a very quiet whoosh, or inaudible. I recently had occasion to rebuild the seals and bearings recepticals section and replace the blades; I think one of my logs detailed that, but it suffices to say that I was VERY careful with my balancing. The effect has been to have no tail flutter (usual with KISS) at higher winds, and, short of going up, making sure it can't rotate, holding a sheet of paper closer and closer so as to induce a cut by the tips, to the eye, it appears the tips are exactly in line, something the US distributor, svhotwire.com, says never happens. Perhaps I just got lucky, but I'd bet it's the balancing. So, if you're experiencing more noise than you like, take the blade off and, using your spindle which came with it (don't have one? I finally, long after I ordered a replacement, found mine, thus I have a spare - and you have to use it due to the taper in the hub) balance it to the degree that it takes a full minute for the "heavy" blade to rotate down from horizontal. Really fiddly work (I'll post my modus if you haven't done it before, if you like), and constant unmounting (from however you're supporting the spindle), trimming, remounting and releveling (if you do as I did and have to provide the second spindle surface), rinse, repeat, for however long it takes. I have no more empirical evidence than that, but I can think of no other reason for dramatically different results this time vs the distributor-balanced bladeset which was mounted on our unit... So, while I investigated the D400, and its specs are impressive (I know of no direct, side by side, controlled wind, audio measurements of noise, but the output and tolerance for high winds are interesting), I'll stick with the KISS for now... L8R Skip and crew, currently near Hopetown over WiFi, still free... -- Morgan 461 #2 SV Flying Pig KI4MPC See our galleries at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery ! Follow us at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFlyingPigLog and/or http://groups.google.com/group/flyingpiglog "You are never given a wish without also being given the power to make it come true. You may have to work for it however." (and) "There is no such thing as a problem without a gift for you in its hand (Richard Bach) "Geoff Schultz" wrote in message .. . Gordon wrote in news:- : Do wind gens do the job? If you anchor, you tend to anchor out of the wind. To be effective, you need 10+ knots of wind. If you are motoring, the alternator will put out a lot more than a wind gen. Wind gens are expensive and in some cases, quite noisy. They need to be mounted high enough to be out of the way and be able to catch the wind which makes them more difficult to service. It all makes one wonder. The one good thing is they work at night when solar doesn't. G Personally I think that a wind generator gives you a lot more bang for the buck than do solar panels. At least that's true in the Caribbean when you regularly get at 15 kt trade wind. Of course if you're anchored in a sheltered spot, it's useless. I can't agree with Skip on the KISS generator. I've had one for many years and there are many short-comings. Their output curve looks impressive, but the unit can't generate sustained power above about 18- 20kts. The issue is that there are internal thermal breakers which open when the unit gets too hot. This leads to all kinds of other issues such as the blades free-wheeling and the "stop" switch doesn't work anymore. If I were buying a new unit today, I'd definately look at the Superwind 350, which has feathering blades and can sustain about 30A in any wind above 12 m/s. It's more expensive and complex, which limits on-site repairs, so you need to balance this with your needs. I will also say that both the KISS and the Superwind are very quiet, with the Superwind being the quietist of all. I can't stand the Air-Marine generators, especially the ones with the older blades. I've re-anchored after discovering that I was behind one. Here are a set of links regarding these generators: http://www.naviclub.com/Test_compara...nes_marine.pdf http://www.superwind.de/download/manual.pdf -- Geoff www.GeoffSchultz.org |
Wind Gen
"Geoff Schultz" wrote in message
.. . Gordon wrote in news:- : If I were buying a new unit today, I'd definately look at the Superwind 350, which has feathering blades and can sustain about 30A in any wind above 12 m/s. It's more expensive and complex, which limits on-site repairs, so you need to balance this with your needs. Here are a set of links regarding these generators: http://www.naviclub.com/Test_compara...nes_marine.pdf http://www.superwind.de/download/manual.pdf -- Geoff www.GeoffSchultz.org PS - I can't get your links to open. Is that a matter of file size, or something else, d'ya think? L8R Skip -- Morgan 461 #2 SV Flying Pig KI4MPC See our galleries at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery ! Follow us at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFlyingPigLog and/or http://groups.google.com/group/flyingpiglog "You are never given a wish without also being given the power to make it come true. You may have to work for it however." (and) "There is no such thing as a problem without a gift for you in its hand (Richard Bach) |
Wind Gen
"Flying Pig" skrev i en meddelelse
... "Geoff Schultz" wrote in message .. . Gordon wrote in news:- : SNIP Here are a set of links regarding these generators: http://www.naviclub.com/Test_compara...nes_marine.pdf http://www.superwind.de/download/manual.pdf -- Geoff www.GeoffSchultz.org PS - I can't get your links to open. Is that a matter of file size, or something else, d'ya think? L8R Skip When I'm using Google Chrome, the links do not open the pdf-document ... With IE8, it works fine - don't ask me why! ... ;o) ... -- best regards Flemming Torp |
Wind Gen
"Flemming Torp" fletopkanelbolle2rp.danmark wrote in message
k... When I'm using Google Chrome, the links do not open the pdf-document ... With IE8, it works fine - don't ask me why! ... ;o) ... -- best regards Flemming Torp Thanks, Flemming, It doesn't work in Firefox, either, which is surprising, but I've found lots of applications (annoyingly, particularly, the interface to my WiFi unit up the mast) which don't, either. Meanwhile, as I was typing this, the FF app loaded OK. Just lots of folks haven't done the code for Chrome, I expect... Thanks. L8R Skip, currently on a site more than 5 miles away, still voice grade :{)) -- Morgan 461 #2 SV Flying Pig KI4MPC See our galleries at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery ! Follow us at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFlyingPigLog and/or http://groups.google.com/group/flyingpiglog "You are never given a wish without also being given the power to make it come true. You may have to work for it however." (and) "There is no such thing as a problem without a gift for you in its hand (Richard Bach) |
d400 wind gen (was) Wind Gen
PS links to D400:
http://www.duogen.co.uk/d400/images/D400man.pdf manual http://www.d400.co.uk/ home page Note from US distributor: On Tue, Oct 13, 2009 at 10:53 AM, Flying Pig wrote: Hi, Larry, I've received a glowing recommendation for the D400. We now have a KISS on a 2" pole, with the associated wiring, controller, heat dump and "off" switch. Would I need anything else to make the swap? How much are they to the east coast? Thanks. L8R Skip Morgan 461 #2 SV Flying Pig KI4MPC See our galleries at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery http://www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery ! Follow us at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFlyingPigLog and/or http://groups.google.com/group/flyingpiglog "You are never given a wish without also being given the power to make it come true. You may have to work for it however." (and) "There is no such thing as a problem without a gift for you in its hand (Richard Bach) The diversion load should work although we use 600 watts because the generator could put out that much in a sustained high wind. See the link below. The C-40 is only semi suitable as it does not isolate the diversion load from the rest of the system and accordingly when you are charging with another source as explained in the paper ,link below, that source will always see that 500 watt load and try to replace another 35 amp hours that just goes up in heat. The switch used in the Kiss is a simple shorting device the switch we use is purpose selected to function with the D-400 see the link below.. You will need to bush the 2" pipe to 1.5" ID or 42mm ID.The cost without the diversion load is $1895 USD FOB Scappoose, OR for the 12 volt and $250.00 more for the 24 volt. Larry Janke Diversion load regulator information; http://www.semarine.com/store/home.php?cat=222 Switch Information http://www.semarine.com/store/produc...&cat=82&page=1 D-400 information http://www.semarine.com/store/produc...&cat=82&page=1 Please note I have nothing to do with any of this other than having my interest piqued via the long-ago discussion on KISS. I'd seen the PS review, but had forgotten it. I'm wondering, given my current experience with the noise/non-noise of mine, if a very careful balancing would have changed the opinions/numbers on the noise levels in the PS test. However, the overall AH generated was a surprise to me... L8R Skip -- Morgan 461 #2 SV Flying Pig KI4MPC See our galleries at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery ! Follow us at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFlyingPigLog and/or http://groups.google.com/group/flyingpiglog "You are never given a wish without also being given the power to make it come true. You may have to work for it however." (and) "There is no such thing as a problem without a gift for you in its hand (Richard Bach) "Flying Pig" wrote in message ... |
Wind Gen
"Flemming Torp" fletopkanelbolle2rp.danmark wrote in message
k... "Flying Pig" skrev i en meddelelse ... "Geoff Schultz" wrote in message .. . Gordon wrote in news:- : SNIP Here are a set of links regarding these generators: http://www.naviclub.com/Test_compara...nes_marine.pdf http://www.superwind.de/download/manual.pdf -- Geoff www.GeoffSchultz.org PS - I can't get your links to open. Is that a matter of file size, or something else, d'ya think? L8R Skip When I'm using Google Chrome, the links do not open the pdf-document ... With IE8, it works fine - don't ask me why! ... ;o) ... Duh! Ya gotta associate the .pdf with Adobe Reader or whatever in order for the link to work. -- Gregory Hall |
d400 wind gen (was) Wind Gen
Why would I want a D400 vs a SuperWind? To me it looks like the output
of the D400 is at least 20% lower than the Superwind at normal wind speeds. Sure I see that at above ~30 kts the D400 is better, but that's an anomoly. http://superwind.com/gfx/charging_b.jpg "Flying Pig" wrote in : PS links to D400: http://www.duogen.co.uk/d400/images/D400man.pdf manual http://www.d400.co.uk/ home page Note from US distributor: On Tue, Oct 13, 2009 at 10:53 AM, Flying Pig wrote: Hi, Larry, I've received a glowing recommendation for the D400. We now have a KISS on a 2" pole, with the associated wiring, controller, heat dump and "off" switch. Would I need anything else to make the swap? How much are they to the east coast? Thanks. L8R Skip Morgan 461 #2 SV Flying Pig KI4MPC See our galleries at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery http://www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery ! Follow us at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFlyingPigLog and/or http://groups.google.com/group/flyingpiglog "You are never given a wish without also being given the power to make it come true. You may have to work for it however." (and) "There is no such thing as a problem without a gift for you in its hand (Richard Bach) The diversion load should work although we use 600 watts because the generator could put out that much in a sustained high wind. See the link below. The C-40 is only semi suitable as it does not isolate the diversion load from the rest of the system and accordingly when you are charging with another source as explained in the paper ,link below, that source will always see that 500 watt load and try to replace another 35 amp hours that just goes up in heat. The switch used in the Kiss is a simple shorting device the switch we use is purpose selected to function with the D-400 see the link below.. You will need to bush the 2" pipe to 1.5" ID or 42mm ID.The cost without the diversion load is $1895 USD FOB Scappoose, OR for the 12 volt and $250.00 more for the 24 volt. Larry Janke Diversion load regulator information; http://www.semarine.com/store/home.php?cat=222 Switch Information http://www.semarine.com/store/produc...&cat=82&page=1 D-400 information http://www.semarine.com/store/produc...&cat=82&page=1 Please note I have nothing to do with any of this other than having my interest piqued via the long-ago discussion on KISS. I'd seen the PS review, but had forgotten it. I'm wondering, given my current experience with the noise/non-noise of mine, if a very careful balancing would have changed the opinions/numbers on the noise levels in the PS test. However, the overall AH generated was a surprise to me... L8R Skip |
All times are GMT +1. The time now is 05:29 PM. |
Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004 - 2014 BoatBanter.com