Bottom Paint Half Price (Serious Question) RESULTS
 

"Dave Doe" wrote in message
...
In article lutions,
lid says...
"Ronald Raygun" wrote in message
...
Armond Perretta wrote:

Ronald Raygun wrote:
Armond Perretta wrote:

Indeed. Good idea to try saving a few bucks. But your credibility
suffered when you claimed to "save half" by using 25% less. I didn't
judge you by your name, but by what you wrote ...

"Bottom Paint Half Price" is a variation on a typical advert slogan in
the
US. It is not nor was it ever intended to be used as an arithmetic
formula. Your taking this title literally implies either that
hyperbole
is
unknown in the British Isles, which is unlikely, or that your own
irony
antennae could stand a tune-up.

Well, if you add "(Serious Question)" to something which otherwise just
might pass for irony, it sends the signal that it was meant to be
serious
and not ironic. If you then reinforce the "half price" quantification
in
the text itself, what else is one to think than that you meant it
literally?
I refer you to your original posting from April in which you wrote:

This means the paint was thinned about 25 to
27 percent, which is well in excess of the manufacturer
recommendations. In fact just about any source I can find would
disagree with my approach and advise that I will end up with less
than adequate protection. The only advantage to me is, of course,
cutting my paint cost by half.

See what I mean? "... cutting my paint cost by half.". That didn't
look ironic, it looked serious. And when you subsequently flatly
denied having made any quantification at all, I just couldn't let
you get away with it. :-)

While this has been a pleasant if somewhat overdone discourse, I am
not
sure that either of us would consider the meandering nature of this
part
of the thread as particularly useful or enlightening.

Well, I'm glad you found it pleasant even though I may have been overly
pedantic, and I apologise if that irritated you.

That aside, enjoy your sailing, old sport.

Thanks, I intend to. As I am not hauling out this year, I hope to get
some winter sailing in. I just hope my bottom paint lasts the full 18
months! :-)



A full 18 mos? I guess that's normal, but I've gotten close to three
years
on mine. I used Micron 99. I'm hoping to see about that long a time on
the
new coat.

It wasn't super cheap, but it seems pretty cost-effective.

Surely folks, it depends on where ya boat is, to a large degree. In
places like Havelock, New Zealand - in the heart of the Malborough
Sounds - the algae and whatever else is so prevalent that no boat goes
more than a year without requiring new antifouling.

--
Duncan.


It also depends on how much you sail... more is better, at least with the
ablative paint.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Bottom Paint Half Price (Serious Question) RESULTS
 

Capt. JG wrote:

"Ronald Raygun" wrote in message
...

As I am not hauling out this year, I hope to get
some winter sailing in. I just hope my bottom paint lasts the full 18
months!

A full 18 mos? I guess that's normal, but I've gotten close to three years
on mine. I used Micron 99. I'm hoping to see about that long a time on the
new coat.

It wasn't super cheap, but it seems pretty cost-effective.

Do you generally stay afloat all the time with only occasional haul-outs,
or do you tend to follow a "6 months afloat, 6 months ashore" cycle, as
I usually do?

In other words, does your "close to three years" mean 3 half-years
immersed, with the intervening 2 half-years dry? If so, that would be
equivalent to my 18 months of uninterrupted immersion, because presumably
the length of time a coating stays effective is mainly related to the rate
at which the active ingredients leach out of the paint (or the paint itself
erodes), and this only happens when immersed.

I usually slap on 1 or 2 thin coats before launching and very little
fouling is evident 6 months later, but the fouling was pretty heavy last
time I stayed afloat for 18 months.

Bottom Paint Half Price (Serious Question) RESULTS
 

Ronald Raygun wrote:

... presumably the length of time a coating stays effective is mainly
related to the rate at which the active ingredients leach out of the
paint (or the paint itself erodes), and this only happens when
immersed ...

Many years ago during my incarnation as a chemist I did business with some
of the largest manufacturers in northern New Jersey. I can say with
certainty that that period often reminds me of outtakes from The Sopranos.

But to "Ronald's" point, depending on the type and composition of the paint,
the antifouling properties can be adversely affected by prolonged dry
storage. While manufacturers can say what they wish in their advertising,
these paints are basically very crude mixtures that rely on the most basic
ingredients for their effectiveness. In the US environmental concerns have
essentially eliminated some of the really effective ingredients that once
provided big advances in antifouling. Now we are back to something similar
to what was used in the 18th century. The main differences are that the can
is better looking and the price is through the roof.

--
Good luck and good sailing.
s/v Kerry Deare of Barnegat
http://home.comcast.net/~kerrydeare

Bottom Paint Half Price (Serious Question) RESULTS
 

Armond Perretta wrote:

Ronald Raygun wrote:

... presumably the length of time a coating stays effective is mainly
related to the rate at which the active ingredients leach out of the
paint (or the paint itself erodes), and this only happens when
immersed ...

... depending on the type and composition of the
paint, the antifouling properties can be adversely affected by prolonged
dry storage.

Interesting.

Perhaps I should have toned it down and presumed that "this happens much
faster when immersed" instead of "this only happens when immersed".

Any chance of quantifying this? I take it "adversely" doesn't mean
more (or even anywhere near as) adversely than when afloat, not even
when "prolonged" means you skip more than one or two summers.

Suppose you slap on a nice new coat and then launch. How different
would you expect the results to be after 18 months if you were
(a) ashore for the middle 6 months, (b) afloat the whole 18 months?

How many dry months can you "trade" for a wet month?

Bottom Paint Half Price (Serious Question) RESULTS
 

Ronald Raygun wrote:
Armond Perretta wrote:
Ronald Raygun wrote:

... presumably the length of time a coating stays effective is
mainly related to the rate at which the active ingredients leach
out of the paint (or the paint itself erodes), and this only
happens when immersed ...

... depending on the type and composition of the
paint, the antifouling properties can be adversely affected by
prolonged dry storage.

...
Any chance of quantifying this? I take it "adversely" doesn't mean
more (or even anywhere near as) adversely than when afloat ...

I have never seen specific data comparing these two situations. Most dry
storage is seasonal (rather than long-term) and this usually means the
colder months. This then introduces climate and weather factors into the
equation, so any comparison is probably sufficiently multivariate that
meaningful comparisons are not within reach (at least in any reasonably
economic way).

How many dry months can you "trade" for a wet month?

When I am at sea I will readily trade a dry _hour_ for a wet month (and I am
not referring to single malts, laddie).

--
Good luck and good sailing.
s/v Kerry Deare of Barnegat
http://home.comcast.net/~kerrydeare

Bottom Paint Half Price (Serious Question) RESULTS
 

"Ronald Raygun" wrote in message
. ..
Capt. JG wrote:

"Ronald Raygun" wrote in message
...

As I am not hauling out this year, I hope to get
some winter sailing in. I just hope my bottom paint lasts the full 18
months!

A full 18 mos? I guess that's normal, but I've gotten close to three
years
on mine. I used Micron 99. I'm hoping to see about that long a time on
the
new coat.

It wasn't super cheap, but it seems pretty cost-effective.

Do you generally stay afloat all the time with only occasional haul-outs,
or do you tend to follow a "6 months afloat, 6 months ashore" cycle, as
I usually do?

In other words, does your "close to three years" mean 3 half-years
immersed, with the intervening 2 half-years dry? If so, that would be
equivalent to my 18 months of uninterrupted immersion, because presumably
the length of time a coating stays effective is mainly related to the rate
at which the active ingredients leach out of the paint (or the paint
itself
erodes), and this only happens when immersed.

I usually slap on 1 or 2 thin coats before launching and very little
fouling is evident 6 months later, but the fouling was pretty heavy last
time I stayed afloat for 18 months.



My boat stays in the water. I don't haul except for paint or something else
serious enough to haul. I didn't haul her during the slightly less than
3-year time-frame. When I did, the project manager at the yard told me I
could have gone another 6 mos., but I was there, so I had it done.

I was fairly amazed actually, but when he swiped the hull with a cloth, you
could see that the paint was still good underneath a light layer of slime.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Bottom Paint Half Price (Serious Question) RESULTS
 

On Tue, 27 Oct 2009 14:08:44 +0000, IanM
wrote:

Don't know. I use Jotun Seaguardian when I can get it and their
Seaforce 30 if I can't. Both are commercial 'fleet' use eroding
antifoulings and manufacturer rated for 2+ years use. They use Xylene
thinners.

Trivia warning.

If the container is intended for chemists, it will be labled " xylenes
", as there are three arrangements of the three methyl groups on the
ring. Three adjacent, two, and none. Ortho, para, and meta. You cannot
separate them for any reasonable ammount of money, but you might be
able to synthesize one or the other. I never took organic, but I read
the book.

Casady

Bottom Paint Half Price (Serious Question) RESULTS
 

Armond Perretta wrote:
Last April I posted ... looking for comments [on _really_ thinning bottom
paint] ... When we pulled the boat we had ... slime but not much and
certainly not more than on previous occasions using the same paint
straight from the can. We had no barnacles on the paint, but they are out
there as I had a few on the prop ... I would have to say that this
thinning method works for me, as I am now going to get 2 full paint jobs
from one gallon on this 28 foot full keel sailboat.

We are in season two of this mini-experiment. Just for the record, our
paint costs are way down and this trend looks like it will continue. Who in
the world wants to pay 200 to 300 dollars US for a gallon of solvent with a
few copper compounds? Also for the record, we are aware that the
arithmetic implied by "half price" is a bit oversimplified.

--
Good luck and good sailing.
s/v Kerry Deare of Barnegat
http://home.comcast.net/~kerrydeare

Bottom Paint Half Price (Serious Question) RESULTS
 

On Fri, 9 Apr 2010 04:30:34 -0400, "Armond Perretta"
wrote:

Armond Perretta wrote:
Last April I posted ... looking for comments [on _really_ thinning bottom
paint] ... When we pulled the boat we had ... slime but not much and
certainly not more than on previous occasions using the same paint
straight from the can. We had no barnacles on the paint, but they are out
there as I had a few on the prop ... I would have to say that this
thinning method works for me, as I am now going to get 2 full paint jobs
from one gallon on this 28 foot full keel sailboat.

We are in season two of this mini-experiment. Just for the record, our
paint costs are way down and this trend looks like it will continue. Who in
the world wants to pay 200 to 300 dollars US for a gallon of solvent with a
few copper compounds? Also for the record, we are aware that the
arithmetic implied by "half price" is a bit oversimplified.


I suppose that the proof of the pudding is how many days/months/years
are you getting per paint job? How much you sail and how much you lay
at anchor.

As most bottom paints are ablative, at least to some extent, so the
use the boat is put to has a big effect on bottom paint. Sail 12 hours
a day and you find nearly any bottom paint keeps the baddies off.
Haul every year and again is a different story then those who haul
every two, or three.

But the Important thing is if it satisfies you, you got a good deal.

Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)

Bottom Paint Half Price (Serious Question) RESULTS
 

On Apr 9, 8:08*am, Gogarty wrote:
We have found West Marine's El Cheapo ablative to be quite good for our
useage. Haul every two years and find no hard growth on the paint.

I have always used the hard epoxy type paint with the most copper
possible because I keep my boat in Florida in severe fouling
conditions. Normally, I go 3 years between haulouts but I scrub the
waterline a couple times a year. Haulouts are difficult around here
because facilities are very few in the Florida Big Bend and if you
figure they will charge you $1000 for hauling and painting, you might
as well use the best paint. I just had my boat done and I had to sail
200 miles to get it done so I had them use Trinidad at $280/gallon.
If I was able to do it myself every other year, I'd use the cheap West
MArine stuff.