SeaClear/Google Earth/Goops/EarthNC
 

Since there have been some "highly technical" computer related
discussions recently, here's something that might interest the
boaters.
http://www.macgregorsailors.com/foru...hp?f=9&t=12714

Most of this is gnus to me, and beyond me frankly, since I have no
gear to work with.
The possibilities sure look to be attractive navigational aids.
And fun too!

--Vic

SeaClear/Google Earth/Goops/EarthNC
 

On Thu, 19 Mar 2009 10:47:05 -0600, Vic Smith
wrote:

Since there have been some "highly technical" computer related
discussions recently, here's something that might interest the
boaters.
http://www.macgregorsailors.com/foru...hp?f=9&t=12714

Most of this is gnus to me, and beyond me frankly, since I have no
gear to work with.
The possibilities sure look to be attractive navigational aids.
And fun too!


I've been testing SeaClear II on one of my Vista computers since my
legacy chart plotting software (Maptech Offshore Navigator) does not
play well with Vista. SeaClear is certainly worth the price (free)
but no match for the well established commercial software that is
available. It takes no special hardware to download and run it, and
the charts are free from NOAA, our tax payer $$$s at work.

The idea of being able to download and save Google Earth imagery and
then couple it with a GPS is certainly attractive but I haven't tried
it yet. There are many areas in south Florida where the charts leave
a lot to be desired and Google Earth would be very useful for those
situations.

SeaClear/Google Earth/Goops/EarthNC
 

Wayne.B wrote in
:

since my
legacy chart plotting software (Maptech Offshore Navigator) does not
play well with Vista.

Netbooks use little power and run WINDOWS XP....which works

SeaClear/Google Earth/Goops/EarthNC
 

Wayne.B wrote in
:

The idea of being able to download and save Google Earth imagery and
then couple it with a GPS is certainly attractive but I haven't tried
it yet. There are many areas in south Florida where the charts leave
a lot to be desired and Google Earth would be very useful for those
situations.



http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/maemo-mapper/

Works anywhere my little Nokia N800 Linux tablet can connect to the
net...including my sellphone data about 20 miles offshore. To increase
range, simply haul the sellphone up the mast in a ziplock baggie to keep it
dry. The tablet talks to the phone via bluetooth wirelessly.

Using Virtual Earth's hybrid map/satellite photo tiles thru the phone, the
fix from my Nokia LD-3W bluetooth WAAS-GPS pocket GPS puck is so accurate
it will place your car in the parking space at the mall...showing the GPS
position in the windscreen as near the front of the parking space....

Amazing stuff....all free. Rips the tiles directly from various servers in
lots of systems....even aeronautical charts...but not marine, oh, no, not
marine...dammit.

Map tiles are available from these servers.....
http://www.internettablettalk.com/fo...ead.php?t=5209
&highlight=map+repositories

First class navigation, compliments of the hackers at Maemo....

SeaClear/Google Earth/Goops/EarthNC
 

On Fri, 20 Mar 2009 01:40:21 +0000, Larry wrote:

Wayne.B wrote in
:

The idea of being able to download and save Google Earth imagery and
then couple it with a GPS is certainly attractive but I haven't tried
it yet. There are many areas in south Florida where the charts leave
a lot to be desired and Google Earth would be very useful for those
situations.



http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/maemo-mapper/

Works anywhere my little Nokia N800 Linux tablet can connect to the
net...including my sellphone data about 20 miles offshore. To increase
range, simply haul the sellphone up the mast in a ziplock baggie to keep it
dry. The tablet talks to the phone via bluetooth wirelessly.

Using Virtual Earth's hybrid map/satellite photo tiles thru the phone, the
fix from my Nokia LD-3W bluetooth WAAS-GPS pocket GPS puck is so accurate
it will place your car in the parking space at the mall...showing the GPS
position in the windscreen as near the front of the parking space....

Amazing stuff....all free. Rips the tiles directly from various servers in
lots of systems....even aeronautical charts...but not marine, oh, no, not
marine...dammit.

Map tiles are available from these servers.....
http://www.internettablettalk.com/fo...ead.php?t=5209
&highlight=map+repositories

First class navigation, compliments of the hackers at Maemo....

Sounds interesting but some of the areas in south Florida with the
worst charts also have no cell phone service and probably never will.

SeaClear/Google Earth/Goops/EarthNC
 

On Thu, 19 Mar 2009 10:47:05 -0600, Vic Smith
wrote:

Since there have been some "highly technical" computer related
discussions recently, here's something that might interest the
boaters.
http://www.macgregorsailors.com/foru...hp?f=9&t=12714

Most of this is gnus to me, and beyond me frankly, since I have no
gear to work with.
The possibilities sure look to be attractive navigational aids.
And fun too!

--Vic


NOAA charts don't work so well over here. :-(
The other thing that I'd be afraid of using the google option is that
it is just a picture of the surface and doesn't show that friggin big
rock right in the middle of the channel....... about two feet under
the water.

Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)

SeaClear/Google Earth/Goops/EarthNC
 

On Thu, 19 Mar 2009 13:39:45 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Thu, 19 Mar 2009 10:47:05 -0600, Vic Smith
wrote:

Since there have been some "highly technical" computer related
discussions recently, here's something that might interest the
boaters.
http://www.macgregorsailors.com/foru...hp?f=9&t=12714

Most of this is gnus to me, and beyond me frankly, since I have no
gear to work with.
The possibilities sure look to be attractive navigational aids.
And fun too!


I've been testing SeaClear II on one of my Vista computers since my
legacy chart plotting software (Maptech Offshore Navigator) does not
play well with Vista. SeaClear is certainly worth the price (free)
but no match for the well established commercial software that is
available. It takes no special hardware to download and run it, and
the charts are free from NOAA, our tax payer $$$s at work.

The idea of being able to download and save Google Earth imagery and
then couple it with a GPS is certainly attractive but I haven't tried
it yet. There are many areas in south Florida where the charts leave
a lot to be desired and Google Earth would be very useful for those
situations.

A question. The NOAA charts are free because the government uses the
tax dollar to survey the area and print the chart, but what about
charts outside the U.S. ?

The US Navy is sporting around all over the globe are they using NOAA
charts? Paying the premium for the British Admiralty charts? Dead
Reckoning?

I'm sure that you can buy international charts from a shop in the U.S.
but where do they come from?
Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)

SeaClear/Google Earth/Goops/EarthNC
 

On Fri, 20 Mar 2009 11:52:18 +0700, Bruce In Bangkok
wrote:


A question. The NOAA charts are free because the government uses the
tax dollar to survey the area and print the chart, but what about
charts outside the U.S. ?

The US Navy is sporting around all over the globe are they using NOAA
charts? Paying the premium for the British Admiralty charts? Dead
Reckoning?

I'm sure that you can buy international charts from a shop in the U.S.
but where do they come from?
Cheers,

The U.S. Navy is supposed to go "paperless" for navigation this year.
This is interesting
http://www.dclab.com/navy_paperless.asp

And this
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/navy/docs/gis_hbk.htm
with much detail about nav data sources.
My favorite line:
"During the Haitian crisis, a Navy ship found itself on a shoal
(according to CNN 'anchored just offshore')."

Never did find out where the Navy purchases paper charts, and I gave
up. Probably "Top Secret" except to 10,000 swabbies in BuPers.

--Vic

SeaClear/Google Earth/Goops/EarthNC
 

On Fri, 20 Mar 2009 05:51:52 -0600, Vic Smith
wrote:

On Fri, 20 Mar 2009 11:52:18 +0700, Bruce In Bangkok
wrote:


A question. The NOAA charts are free because the government uses the
tax dollar to survey the area and print the chart, but what about
charts outside the U.S. ?

The US Navy is sporting around all over the globe are they using NOAA
charts? Paying the premium for the British Admiralty charts? Dead
Reckoning?

I'm sure that you can buy international charts from a shop in the U.S.
but where do they come from?
Cheers,

The U.S. Navy is supposed to go "paperless" for navigation this year.
This is interesting
http://www.dclab.com/navy_paperless.asp

And this
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/navy/docs/gis_hbk.htm
with much detail about nav data sources.

Very interesting. thank you.

My favorite line:
"During the Haitian crisis, a Navy ship found itself on a shoal
(according to CNN 'anchored just offshore')."

Never did find out where the Navy purchases paper charts, and I gave
up. Probably "Top Secret" except to 10,000 swabbies in BuPers.

--Vic

When I bought this boat the previous owner unloaded a pile of charts
easily 4 feet high. He was a retired Navy chief and mentioned that
"the navigating officer on the USS XXX is a friend of mine". I always
assumed that the charts were a world wide set.

But, what about all the folks that are carrying around those brass
gizmos - sextants I think that they are called.... Once the Navy goes
digital that will make sun shots redundant. Damn, the lead line is
gone, next it will be sextants and sooner or later the compass. What
will be left to differentiate us "sailors" from the farmers?


Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)

SeaClear/Google Earth/Goops/EarthNC
 

Vic Smith wrote:

Never did find out where the Navy purchases paper charts, and I gave
up. *Probably "Top Secret" except to 10,000 swabbies in BuPers.


I don't think the Navy buys them. IIRC they are provided through the
Library of Congress (Federal Supervisor of Documents or something like
that) and they definitely use Admiralty charts for much of the world.
The U.S. Defense Department also has it's own survey bureau called the
Defense Mapping Agency which creates charts for the Navy (and the
navies of allied countries).

DSK

SeaClear/Google Earth/Goops/EarthNC
 

On Fri, 20 Mar 2009 19:55:39 +0700, Bruce In Bangkok
wrote:
What
will be left to differentiate us "sailors" from the farmers?

Get one of those Capt'n hats. Even works in Iowa.
Add a rubber parrot on the shoulder so there's no mistaking you.
When you buy feed the parrot will alert the clerk to your real
identity every time, in case he thinks the hat is just a strange
bandana.
I was surprised to read on the first link that steaming Navy vessels
carried sails as a backup for 32 years after the intro of steam.

--Vic

SeaClear/Google Earth/Goops/EarthNC
 

On Fri, 20 Mar 2009 07:18:49 -0600, Vic Smith
wrote:

On Fri, 20 Mar 2009 19:55:39 +0700, Bruce In Bangkok
wrote:
What
will be left to differentiate us "sailors" from the farmers?

Get one of those Capt'n hats. Even works in Iowa.
Add a rubber parrot on the shoulder so there's no mistaking you.
When you buy feed the parrot will alert the clerk to your real
identity every time, in case he thinks the hat is just a strange
bandana.
I was surprised to read on the first link that steaming Navy vessels
carried sails as a backup for 32 years after the intro of steam.

--Vic

Yes - can't trust this newfangled stuff.

Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)

SeaClear/Google Earth/Goops/EarthNC
 

On Fri, 20 Mar 2009 21:11:46 +0700, Bruce In Bangkok
wrote:

I was surprised to read on the first link that steaming Navy vessels
carried sails as a backup for 32 years after the intro of steam.

--Vic

Yes - can't trust this newfangled stuff.

Until the perfection of the triple expansion steam engine, you
couldn't carry enough coal to cross oceans. What you could do with
limited coal was enter harbors, up rivers and against the wind. In a
fight you could take in the sails and manuver independent of the wind.

That is what you call an overwhelming advantage over a sail only ship.
Prior to the perfection of the screw propellor, the paddle wheels
presented huge targets and took out lots of broadside space used for
guns on a sail only ship. One reason steam was slow to be adopted. It
was used for harbor tugs early on.

Casady

SeaClear/Google Earth/Goops/EarthNC
 

In article ,
says...
In article ,
says...
On Fri, 20 Mar 2009 21:11:46 +0700, Bruce In Bangkok
wrote:

I was surprised to read on the first link that steaming Navy vessels
carried sails as a backup for 32 years after the intro of steam.

--Vic

Yes - can't trust this newfangled stuff.

The Titanic (and I presume her sister ships Britannic and Olympic)
carried emergency sails.


Interesting. The rigging plan at
http://titanic-theshipmagnificent.co...icRiggingPlan/

doesn't seem to show any sail control lines or yards.


Mark Borgerson

SeaClear/Google Earth/Goops/EarthNC
 

In article ,
says...
In article ,
says...
In article ,
says...
In article ,
says...
On Fri, 20 Mar 2009 21:11:46 +0700, Bruce In Bangkok
wrote:

I was surprised to read on the first link that steaming Navy vessels
carried sails as a backup for 32 years after the intro of steam.

--Vic

Yes - can't trust this newfangled stuff.

The Titanic (and I presume her sister ships Britannic and Olympic)
carried emergency sails.


Interesting. The rigging plan at
http://titanic-theshipmagnificent.co...icRiggingPlan/

doesn't seem to show any sail control lines or yards.


Mark Borgerson

Ref: British Government, Loss of the Steamship Titanic, Report of formal
investigation (Washington: Governmernt Printing Office, 1912) p. 29.


Is that report available on line? It would be interesting to see what
sort of sails they hand and what kind of progress they would expect
if the engines failed.

The only thing I found was:

http://www.titanicinquiry.org/BOTInq...pStructure.php

"Masts and Rigging. - The vessel was rigged with two masts, and fore and
aft sails. The two pole masts were constructed of steel, and stiffened
with angle irons. The poles at the top of the mast were made of teak."

I wonder how effective a few fore and aft sails might have been,
considering the windage and weight of the ship.





Mark Borgerson

Titanic Under Sail (was SeaClear/Google ...)
 

Gogarty wrote:
... I did most of my research at the Library of Congress
and had access to all the original documents.

I doubt those sails could have been very effective at all. Puts me in mind of
vestigial organs or limbs that once had a function but no longer do and
nobody can figure out why they are still there except they always have been.
I measn look at the design of your average 1920s megayacht with long bowsprit
and clipper bow and raked masts that might carry sails but never did.


My guess, for what it's worth:
with no sails, Titanic might have made 3 points off downwind to either
side with no adverse run of the sea.
With both sails set, you might notch it up to 4 points off the downwind,
and a shade faster....

Brian W

Titanic Under Sail (was SeaClear/Google ...)
 

Brian Whatcott wrote:
My guess, for what it's worth:
with no sails, Titanic might have made 3 points off downwind to either
side with no adverse run of the sea.
With both sails set, you might notch it up to 4 points off the downwind,
and a shade faster....


Oh c'mon...look at the rake to her masts! Surely the schooner Titanic
would have pointed like a witch!

Actually IIRC the major purpose of carrying sails was to qualify as a
mail ship. Ancient regulations & all that.

DSK