|
Magic Head
Well, I was going to wait until I tore things apart further to ask, but
I figured maybe someone would have an easy answer to save me some time. Here's the punchline: When we use the head (a Groco Type K) and pump it out, the waste comes out the holding tank vent line. This seems impossible to me. First of all, the tank itself is empty and regardless of which way I flip the Y valve the waste still comes out the vent line, which is attached to a three inch screw in top, in the top of the holding tank. Here are some facts that may help: The water supply for the toilet is the fresh water tank. The previous owners put a ball valve before the head, when you turn it on, water comes in the toilet bowl, then you turn it off/down while you pump out the bowl,etc, and leave it off until you use the toilet again. Completely non-standard setup, I guess. I've been working on other more important things, but this was going to be my next, um job, sort of, but anyway the first thing I was going to try was to open the seacock toilet waste valve. I haven't tried this yet though, all this has been happening with that valve closed. Also, waste slowly leaks from around the top of the tank, onto the top of the tank either out of the vent line or from around the screw fitting. Whenever I look there is a little puddle of waste on top of the tank. Again this seems impossible. How does the waste even get there when there seems to be none making into the tank and while there is definitely none collecting in the tank itself. I'm very curious. There are only three through hulls in the boat (H33), the raw water intake for the Yanmar, the head discharge and the sink discharge. I really don't want to haul out the boat to add one(budget problems). So, um, guesses? solid answers? things I should check first? Directions I should head to solve this? Thanks! Stephen |
Magic Head
You have a whole bunch of problems, Steve...
Stephen Trapani wrote: Your first problem: When we use the head (a Groco Type K) and pump it out, the waste comes out the holding tank vent line. This seems impossible to me. First of all, the tank itself is empty... It can't be. You may THINK it is because you've pumped out or dumped the tank till nothing more comes out, but your tank has to be full to overflowing for waste to be forced out the vent and fittings on the top of the tank. My guess is, your tank vent is all but completely blocked, causing your tank to become so pressurized that pumping the head manages to force some liquid out the vent, but doesn't allow enough air back into the tank during pumpout to keep the pumpout or macerator from pulling a vacuum that prevents it from removing more than a gallon or two. Your second problem: and regardless of which way I flip the Y valve the waste still comes out the vent line, which is attached to a three inch screw in top, in the top of the holding tank. Your y-valve has failed...it isn't completely switch sides when you turn the handle. In fact, it may not be moving anything inside at all. Your third problem: The water supply for the toilet is the fresh water tank. The previous owners put a ball valve before the head, when you turn it on, water comes in the toilet bowl, then you turn it off/down while you pump out the bowl,etc, and leave it off until you use the toilet again. Completely non-standard setup, I guess. Not only non-standard, but a MAJOR no-no. NO toilet that isn't designed by the mfr to use pressurized flush water should ever be connected to the potable water supply. It cannot be done without risk of e-coli contamination of the potable water supply, damage to the toilet, or both. I've been working on other more important things... That depends on what you consider important. Do not use your fresh water for anything BUT toilet flushing again until you've disconnected the toilet from the system and recommissioned the fresh water system to purify it (email me for directions). but this was going to be my next, um job, sort of, but anyway the first thing I was going to try was to open the seacock toilet waste valve. I haven't tried this yet though, all this has been happening with that valve closed. Well, no WONDER waste is going through the y-valve into the tank no matter which way the valve handle is turned! If it couldn't get past the the y-valve, flushing the toilet against a closed discharge seacock closed would create enough pressure to make it erupt back through the bowl with enough force to give you a bath in it! You're just lucky that just enough can escape through the tank vent to prevent that from happening... or worse yet, a ruptured tank. Also, waste slowly leaks from around the top of the tank, onto the top of the tank either out of the vent line or from around the screw fitting. Whenever I look there is a little puddle of waste on top of the tank. Again this seems impossible. How does the waste even get there when there seems to be none making into the tank and while there is definitely none collecting in the tank itself. I'm very curious. Everything you describe indicates a tank that's actually full to overflowing and seriously pressurized due to a blocked tank vent. So, um, guesses? solid answers? things I should check first? Directions I should head to solve this? First, clear the tank vent...the most likely place is the thru-hull...clean it out with a screwdriver blade. If there's nothing in it, the next most common place for a blockage is the the fitting on the tank...a kinked vent line is also a good possbility. Don't use the toilet again or attempt to pump out again until you've found the blockage and cleared it. Once you've done that, if it were my boat, I'd pull out the the whole system, rebuild the toilet while it's out of the boat, and reinstall everything correctly...with all new hoses--including the vent line--a new y-valve (or maybe not--nor any macerator to dump the tank either--unless you're in coastal water that offer immediate access to open sea at least 3 miles from the nearest point on the whole US coastline...'cuz it's illegal flush directly overboard OR dump a tank in ALL inland waters including the Great Lakes and any coastal waters inside the "3 mile limit".)...reconnect it to the intake thru-hull--which I suspect you've mistaken for a head discharge thru-hull...I'll bet the PO "converted" it when he connected the intake to the fresh water system. The Hunter Owners Website at http://www.hunterowners.com/ is an excellent resource for any information you need about anything on your boat. Groco can supply you with a manual for your toilet that includes directions for installing and plumbing it correctly. And I think you'll find the link in my signature useful too. If you still have questions, I'll be glad to answer 'em. - Peggie ---------- Peggie Hall Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987 Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor" http://69.20.93.241/store/customer/p...40&cat=&page=1 |
Magic Head
Stephen Trapani wrote in message ...
Well, I was going to wait until I tore things apart further to ask, but I figured maybe someone would have an easy answer to save me some time. Here's the punchline: When we use the head (a Groco Type K) and pump it out, the waste comes out the holding tank vent line. This seems impossible to me. First of all, the tank itself is empty and regardless of which way I flip the Y valve the waste still comes out the vent line, which is attached to a three inch screw in top, in the top of the holding tank. Here are some facts that may help: The water supply for the toilet is the fresh water tank. The previous owners put a ball valve before the head, when you turn it on, water comes in the toilet bowl, then you turn it off/down while you pump out the bowl,etc, and leave it off until you use the toilet again. Completely non-standard setup, I guess. I've been working on other more important things, but this was going to be my next, um job, sort of, but anyway the first thing I was going to try was to open the seacock toilet waste valve. I haven't tried this yet though, all this has been happening with that valve closed. Also, waste slowly leaks from around the top of the tank, onto the top of the tank either out of the vent line or from around the screw fitting. Whenever I look there is a little puddle of waste on top of the tank. Again this seems impossible. How does the waste even get there when there seems to be none making into the tank and while there is definitely none collecting in the tank itself. I'm very curious. There are only three through hulls in the boat (H33), the raw water intake for the Yanmar, the head discharge and the sink discharge. I really don't want to haul out the boat to add one(budget problems). So, um, guesses? solid answers? things I should check first? Directions I should head to solve this? Thanks! Stephen The only way this can happen is if the vent line goes to the bottom of the tank. I assume you are very sure the tank is empty? Rolf |
Magic Head
My Y-valve wasn't working when I bought my boat. After a *thorough*
cleaning, I disassembled and found an O ring displaced. Cleaned some more, reinstalled the o ring in its' groove and it's been working fine since. I bet his tank *IS* full, too. -- Scott Vernon Plowville PA __/)__/)__ "Peggie Hall" wrote in message ... You have a whole bunch of problems, Steve... Stephen Trapani wrote: Your first problem: When we use the head (a Groco Type K) and pump it out, the waste comes out the holding tank vent line. This seems impossible to me. First of all, the tank itself is empty... It can't be. You may THINK it is because you've pumped out or dumped the tank till nothing more comes out, but your tank has to be full to overflowing for waste to be forced out the vent and fittings on the top of the tank. My guess is, your tank vent is all but completely blocked, causing your tank to become so pressurized that pumping the head manages to force some liquid out the vent, but doesn't allow enough air back into the tank during pumpout to keep the pumpout or macerator from pulling a vacuum that prevents it from removing more than a gallon or two. Your second problem: and regardless of which way I flip the Y valve the waste still comes out the vent line, which is attached to a three inch screw in top, in the top of the holding tank. Your y-valve has failed...it isn't completely switch sides when you turn the handle. In fact, it may not be moving anything inside at all. Your third problem: The water supply for the toilet is the fresh water tank. The previous owners put a ball valve before the head, when you turn it on, water comes in the toilet bowl, then you turn it off/down while you pump out the bowl,etc, and leave it off until you use the toilet again. Completely non-standard setup, I guess. Not only non-standard, but a MAJOR no-no. NO toilet that isn't designed by the mfr to use pressurized flush water should ever be connected to the potable water supply. It cannot be done without risk of e-coli contamination of the potable water supply, damage to the toilet, or both. I've been working on other more important things... That depends on what you consider important. Do not use your fresh water for anything BUT toilet flushing again until you've disconnected the toilet from the system and recommissioned the fresh water system to purify it (email me for directions). but this was going to be my next, um job, sort of, but anyway the first thing I was going to try was to open the seacock toilet waste valve. I haven't tried this yet though, all this has been happening with that valve closed. Well, no WONDER waste is going through the y-valve into the tank no matter which way the valve handle is turned! If it couldn't get past the the y-valve, flushing the toilet against a closed discharge seacock closed would create enough pressure to make it erupt back through the bowl with enough force to give you a bath in it! You're just lucky that just enough can escape through the tank vent to prevent that from happening... or worse yet, a ruptured tank. Also, waste slowly leaks from around the top of the tank, onto the top of the tank either out of the vent line or from around the screw fitting. Whenever I look there is a little puddle of waste on top of the tank. Again this seems impossible. How does the waste even get there when there seems to be none making into the tank and while there is definitely none collecting in the tank itself. I'm very curious. Everything you describe indicates a tank that's actually full to overflowing and seriously pressurized due to a blocked tank vent. So, um, guesses? solid answers? things I should check first? Directions I should head to solve this? First, clear the tank vent...the most likely place is the thru-hull...clean it out with a screwdriver blade. If there's nothing in it, the next most common place for a blockage is the the fitting on the tank...a kinked vent line is also a good possbility. Don't use the toilet again or attempt to pump out again until you've found the blockage and cleared it. Once you've done that, if it were my boat, I'd pull out the the whole system, rebuild the toilet while it's out of the boat, and reinstall everything correctly...with all new hoses--including the vent line--a new y-valve (or maybe not--nor any macerator to dump the tank either--unless you're in coastal water that offer immediate access to open sea at least 3 miles from the nearest point on the whole US coastline...'cuz it's illegal flush directly overboard OR dump a tank in ALL inland waters including the Great Lakes and any coastal waters inside the "3 mile limit".)...reconnect it to the intake thru-hull--which I suspect you've mistaken for a head discharge thru-hull...I'll bet the PO "converted" it when he connected the intake to the fresh water system. The Hunter Owners Website at http://www.hunterowners.com/ is an excellent resource for any information you need about anything on your boat. Groco can supply you with a manual for your toilet that includes directions for installing and plumbing it correctly. And I think you'll find the link in my signature useful too. If you still have questions, I'll be glad to answer 'em. - Peggie ---------- Peggie Hall Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987 Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor" http://69.20.93.241/store/customer/p...40&cat=&page=1 |
Magic Head
If the tank's not full, the vent is connected to a pipe leading to the
bottom of the tank. Wonder how many changes PO made? surfnturf "Scott Vernon" wrote in message ... My Y-valve wasn't working when I bought my boat. After a *thorough* cleaning, I disassembled and found an O ring displaced. Cleaned some more, reinstalled the o ring in its' groove and it's been working fine since. I bet his tank *IS* full, too. -- Scott Vernon Plowville PA __/)__/)__ "Peggie Hall" wrote in message ... You have a whole bunch of problems, Steve... Stephen Trapani wrote: Your first problem: When we use the head (a Groco Type K) and pump it out, the waste comes out the holding tank vent line. This seems impossible to me. First of all, the tank itself is empty... It can't be. You may THINK it is because you've pumped out or dumped the tank till nothing more comes out, but your tank has to be full to overflowing for waste to be forced out the vent and fittings on the top of the tank. My guess is, your tank vent is all but completely blocked, causing your tank to become so pressurized that pumping the head manages to force some liquid out the vent, but doesn't allow enough air back into the tank during pumpout to keep the pumpout or macerator from pulling a vacuum that prevents it from removing more than a gallon or two. Your second problem: and regardless of which way I flip the Y valve the waste still comes out the vent line, which is attached to a three inch screw in top, in the top of the holding tank. Your y-valve has failed...it isn't completely switch sides when you turn the handle. In fact, it may not be moving anything inside at all. Your third problem: The water supply for the toilet is the fresh water tank. The previous owners put a ball valve before the head, when you turn it on, water comes in the toilet bowl, then you turn it off/down while you pump out the bowl,etc, and leave it off until you use the toilet again. Completely non-standard setup, I guess. Not only non-standard, but a MAJOR no-no. NO toilet that isn't designed by the mfr to use pressurized flush water should ever be connected to the potable water supply. It cannot be done without risk of e-coli contamination of the potable water supply, damage to the toilet, or both. I've been working on other more important things... That depends on what you consider important. Do not use your fresh water for anything BUT toilet flushing again until you've disconnected the toilet from the system and recommissioned the fresh water system to purify it (email me for directions). but this was going to be my next, um job, sort of, but anyway the first thing I was going to try was to open the seacock toilet waste valve. I haven't tried this yet though, all this has been happening with that valve closed. Well, no WONDER waste is going through the y-valve into the tank no matter which way the valve handle is turned! If it couldn't get past the the y-valve, flushing the toilet against a closed discharge seacock closed would create enough pressure to make it erupt back through the bowl with enough force to give you a bath in it! You're just lucky that just enough can escape through the tank vent to prevent that from happening... or worse yet, a ruptured tank. Also, waste slowly leaks from around the top of the tank, onto the top of the tank either out of the vent line or from around the screw fitting. Whenever I look there is a little puddle of waste on top of the tank. Again this seems impossible. How does the waste even get there when there seems to be none making into the tank and while there is definitely none collecting in the tank itself. I'm very curious. Everything you describe indicates a tank that's actually full to overflowing and seriously pressurized due to a blocked tank vent. So, um, guesses? solid answers? things I should check first? Directions I should head to solve this? First, clear the tank vent...the most likely place is the thru-hull...clean it out with a screwdriver blade. If there's nothing in it, the next most common place for a blockage is the the fitting on the tank...a kinked vent line is also a good possbility. Don't use the toilet again or attempt to pump out again until you've found the blockage and cleared it. Once you've done that, if it were my boat, I'd pull out the the whole system, rebuild the toilet while it's out of the boat, and reinstall everything correctly...with all new hoses--including the vent line--a new y-valve (or maybe not--nor any macerator to dump the tank either--unless you're in coastal water that offer immediate access to open sea at least 3 miles from the nearest point on the whole US coastline...'cuz it's illegal flush directly overboard OR dump a tank in ALL inland waters including the Great Lakes and any coastal waters inside the "3 mile limit".)...reconnect it to the intake thru-hull--which I suspect you've mistaken for a head discharge thru-hull...I'll bet the PO "converted" it when he connected the intake to the fresh water system. The Hunter Owners Website at http://www.hunterowners.com/ is an excellent resource for any information you need about anything on your boat. Groco can supply you with a manual for your toilet that includes directions for installing and plumbing it correctly. And I think you'll find the link in my signature useful too. If you still have questions, I'll be glad to answer 'em. - Peggie ---------- Peggie Hall Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987 Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor" http://69.20.93.241/store/customer/p...40&cat=&page=1 |
Magic Head
Peggie Hall wrote:
You have a whole bunch of problems, Steve... Stephen Trapani wrote: Your first problem: When we use the head (a Groco Type K) and pump it out, the waste comes out the holding tank vent line. I meant when I pump the toilet... This seems impossible to me. First of all, the tank itself is empty... It can't be. You may THINK it is because you've pumped out or dumped the tank till nothing more comes out, but your tank has to be full to overflowing for waste to be forced out the vent and fittings on the top of the tank. Okay, then I'm thinking logically, just going insane. Or I really do have a magic head! ;-) It's a plastic tank, I can see it's empty. I can move the tank around with one hand, it's light like it's empty (It's not tied down). I'm not there atm, I'll triple check it again this weekend. If it's full, I'll check in to the nearest psych ward. It was totally full when I first bought the boat, I unscrewed the fittings at the top of the tank, sucked it all out from there with a power vac (because the boat was in dry dock and I had to move the tank to do some work on the shaft), disconnected the tank completely and pulled it out, rinsed it out, put it back in and reconnected everything (possibly reversing the pump-out, which I connected to the fitting near the bottom of the tank, and the line from the head, which I connected to the fitting near the top of the tank; both of these are on one side of the tank). Since then we've used the head an entire weekend, with waste coming out the vent line the whole time, I think. The vent can't be plugged, it's functioning as the entire discharge for the system! I've been watching the tank, it's right there in the starboard cockpit locker, never seen it collect waste. I haven't checked any of the lines yet though. The tank vent attached at the top of the tank *definitely* stops right there at the top, it's connected with a hose clamp, I reconnected it myself, there is nothing connecting the vent line to the bottom of the tank. When I get time, um next on the list right after I try out my new sails, I'll take everything apart like you said, but... Once you've done that, if it were my boat, I'd pull out the the whole system, rebuild the toilet while it's out of the boat, and reinstall everything correctly...with all new hoses--including the vent line--a new y-valve (or maybe not--nor any macerator to dump the tank either--unless you're in coastal water that offer immediate access to open sea at least 3 miles from the nearest point on the whole US coastline...'cuz it's illegal flush directly overboard OR dump a tank in ALL inland waters including the Great Lakes and any coastal waters inside the "3 mile limit".)...reconnect it to the intake thru-hull--which I suspect you've mistaken for a head discharge thru-hull...I'll bet the PO "converted" it when he connected the intake to the fresh water system. .... could be, but the '79 Hunter 33' couldn't have been designed without a head discharge thru-hull, could it? Maybe it Y'd into the sink discharge? Should I try to run it to there? The Hunter Owners Website at http://www.hunterowners.com/ is an excellent resource for any information you need about anything on your boat. You're right. I recently saw an owners manual posted there for the '80 H33, I just couldn't figure out how to download the pdf file onto my ibook, I just got a page with a picture of the manual. Groco can supply you with a manual for your toilet that includes directions for installing and plumbing it correctly. And I think you'll find the link in my signature useful too. Yes, once I get my elbows into this mess I think I'll have both of those. If you still have questions, I'll be glad to answer 'em. Thanks! hey what do I get if I manage to stump the head mistress? an in person consultation?? ;-) Stephen |
Magic Head
Stephen Trapani wrote:
When we use the head (a Groco Type K) and pump it out, the waste comes out the holding tank vent line. I meant when I pump the toilet... I knew that's what you meant. Okay, then I'm thinking logically, just going insane. Or I really do have a magic head! ;-) It's a plastic tank, I can see it's empty. Since you've used the toilet, or only after you vacuumed it out? 'Cuz it's very possible that the tank doesn't hold anywhere near as much as you think it does. How many gallons is it supposed to hold? It's also possible that the toilet either uses a lot more flush water than you think...or that it's leaking flush water, filling up the tank. I can move the tank around with one hand, it's light like it's empty (It's not tied down). It's not too hard to slide a tank around...and you do need to secure it from sliding when you're heeled. I'm not there atm, I'll triple check it again this weekend. If it's full, I'll check in to the nearest psych ward. I don't think you're hallucinating...but I also know that there are a only a limited number things that can force waste out the vent. It was totally full when I first bought the boat, I unscrewed the fittings at the top of the tank, sucked it all out from there with a power vac (because the boat was in dry dock and I had to move the tank to do some work on the shaft), disconnected the tank completely and pulled it out, rinsed it out, put it back in and reconnected everything (possibly reversing the pump-out, which I connected to the fitting near the bottom of the tank, and the line from the head, which I connected to the fitting near the top of the tank; both of these are on one side of the tank). You got it right--waste goes in at the top, has to be pumped out from the bottom. Since then we've used the head an entire weekend, with waste coming out the vent line the whole time, I think. The vent can't be plugged, it's functioning as the entire discharge for the system! I've been watching the tank, it's right there in the starboard cockpit locker, never seen it collect waste. Hmmmm... I haven't checked any of the lines yet though. Lines.....WHOOPS--we may be onto something: Is there a vented loop in the head discharge line that has it's own tiny vent line that's teed into the tank vent line? If so, where's the loop--before or after the y-valve? I need all the details you can give me. If no loop (which, since your toilet flushes directly overboard, there should be), is ANYthing teed into the tank vent line? ...reconnect it to the intake thru-hull--which I suspect you've mistaken for a head discharge thru-hull...I'll bet the PO "converted" it when he connected the intake to the fresh water system. ... could be, but the '79 Hunter 33' couldn't have been designed without a head discharge thru-hull, could it? Prob'ly not on one that old, but it's possible...'cuz '79 was the first model year to require holding tanks. Many boats built from then on were plumbed to send all the waste to the tank. But it's more likely that a PO prior to the most recent PO removed the head thru-hull and glassed it over...'cuz your toilet isn't original either (it's a $600 toilet, btw). So I'm guessing that the same PO who connected the intake to the fresh water system also installed that toilet and decided to use the sink drain through hull as a head discharge. However... Maybe it Y'd into the sink discharge? Should I try to run it to there? That'll work...in fact, although I don't think Hunter ever did, many sailboats are plumbed that way to eliminate a thru-hull. You will have to either keep a plug in the sink or install a shut=off valve in the sink drain line that should remain closed except when the sink is in use...otherwise the toilet will pull air through the sink that'll prevent it from priming and pulling in any flush water. The Hunter Owners Website at http://www.hunterowners.com/ is an excellent resource for any information you need about anything on your boat. You're right. I recently saw an owners manual posted there for the '80 H33, I just couldn't figure out how to download the pdf file onto my ibook, I just got a page with a picture of the manual. If you post a request, someone will be glad to get a copy to you. If you still have questions, I'll be glad to answer 'em. Thanks! hey what do I get if I manage to stump the head mistress? an in person consultation?? ;-) You just might--at least a phone consultation anyway. :) -- Peggie ---------- Peggie Hall Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987 Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor" http://69.20.93.241/store/customer/p...40&cat=&page=1 |
Magic Head
Sounds full, but maybe the "vent" line is hooked to the wrong outlet, like a
dip tube? -- Keith __ A balanced diet is a cookie in each hand. "surfnturf" wrote in message news:lHTGc.977538$Pk3.296206@pd7tw1no... If the tank's not full, the vent is connected to a pipe leading to the bottom of the tank. Wonder how many changes PO made? surfnturf "Scott Vernon" wrote in message ... My Y-valve wasn't working when I bought my boat. After a *thorough* cleaning, I disassembled and found an O ring displaced. Cleaned some more, reinstalled the o ring in its' groove and it's been working fine since. I bet his tank *IS* full, too. -- Scott Vernon Plowville PA __/)__/)__ "Peggie Hall" wrote in message ... You have a whole bunch of problems, Steve... Stephen Trapani wrote: Your first problem: When we use the head (a Groco Type K) and pump it out, the waste comes out the holding tank vent line. This seems impossible to me. First of all, the tank itself is empty... It can't be. You may THINK it is because you've pumped out or dumped the tank till nothing more comes out, but your tank has to be full to overflowing for waste to be forced out the vent and fittings on the top of the tank. My guess is, your tank vent is all but completely blocked, causing your tank to become so pressurized that pumping the head manages to force some liquid out the vent, but doesn't allow enough air back into the tank during pumpout to keep the pumpout or macerator from pulling a vacuum that prevents it from removing more than a gallon or two. Your second problem: and regardless of which way I flip the Y valve the waste still comes out the vent line, which is attached to a three inch screw in top, in the top of the holding tank. Your y-valve has failed...it isn't completely switch sides when you turn the handle. In fact, it may not be moving anything inside at all. Your third problem: The water supply for the toilet is the fresh water tank. The previous owners put a ball valve before the head, when you turn it on, water comes in the toilet bowl, then you turn it off/down while you pump out the bowl,etc, and leave it off until you use the toilet again. Completely non-standard setup, I guess. Not only non-standard, but a MAJOR no-no. NO toilet that isn't designed by the mfr to use pressurized flush water should ever be connected to the potable water supply. It cannot be done without risk of e-coli contamination of the potable water supply, damage to the toilet, or both. I've been working on other more important things... That depends on what you consider important. Do not use your fresh water for anything BUT toilet flushing again until you've disconnected the toilet from the system and recommissioned the fresh water system to purify it (email me for directions). but this was going to be my next, um job, sort of, but anyway the first thing I was going to try was to open the seacock toilet waste valve. I haven't tried this yet though, all this has been happening with that valve closed. Well, no WONDER waste is going through the y-valve into the tank no matter which way the valve handle is turned! If it couldn't get past the the y-valve, flushing the toilet against a closed discharge seacock closed would create enough pressure to make it erupt back through the bowl with enough force to give you a bath in it! You're just lucky that just enough can escape through the tank vent to prevent that from happening... or worse yet, a ruptured tank. Also, waste slowly leaks from around the top of the tank, onto the top of the tank either out of the vent line or from around the screw fitting. Whenever I look there is a little puddle of waste on top of the tank. Again this seems impossible. How does the waste even get there when there seems to be none making into the tank and while there is definitely none collecting in the tank itself. I'm very curious. Everything you describe indicates a tank that's actually full to overflowing and seriously pressurized due to a blocked tank vent. So, um, guesses? solid answers? things I should check first? Directions I should head to solve this? First, clear the tank vent...the most likely place is the thru-hull...clean it out with a screwdriver blade. If there's nothing in it, the next most common place for a blockage is the the fitting on the tank...a kinked vent line is also a good possbility. Don't use the toilet again or attempt to pump out again until you've found the blockage and cleared it. Once you've done that, if it were my boat, I'd pull out the the whole system, rebuild the toilet while it's out of the boat, and reinstall everything correctly...with all new hoses--including the vent line--a new y-valve (or maybe not--nor any macerator to dump the tank either--unless you're in coastal water that offer immediate access to open sea at least 3 miles from the nearest point on the whole US coastline...'cuz it's illegal flush directly overboard OR dump a tank in ALL inland waters including the Great Lakes and any coastal waters inside the "3 mile limit".)...reconnect it to the intake thru-hull--which I suspect you've mistaken for a head discharge thru-hull...I'll bet the PO "converted" it when he connected the intake to the fresh water system. The Hunter Owners Website at http://www.hunterowners.com/ is an excellent resource for any information you need about anything on your boat. Groco can supply you with a manual for your toilet that includes directions for installing and plumbing it correctly. And I think you'll find the link in my signature useful too. If you still have questions, I'll be glad to answer 'em. - Peggie ---------- Peggie Hall Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987 Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor" http://69.20.93.241/store/customer/p...40&cat=&page=1 |
Magic Head
Peggie Hall wrote:
Lines.....WHOOPS--we may be onto something: Is there a vented loop in the head discharge line that has it's own tiny vent line that's teed into the tank vent line? If so, where's the loop--before or after the y-valve? I need all the details you can give me. If no loop (which, since your toilet flushes directly overboard, there should be), is ANYthing teed into the tank vent line? This is definitely something I'll look for. The vent line comes off the top of the tank and heads toward the stern but it's hard to see back there so I've never traced it. It's *got* to be something like that. There is no such thing as the supernatural! I'll get back to you with my findings. Now I just need to decide whether I move up the job of cleaning out that nasty, greasy helm locker before I climb down in there to check this out. Stephen |
Magic Head
Steve, if you have any questions you'd rather not post, you're welcome
to email: peg(dot)hall(at)sbcglobal(dot)net. Peggie Stephen Trapani wrote: Peggie Hall wrote: Lines.....WHOOPS--we may be onto something: Is there a vented loop in the head discharge line that has it's own tiny vent line that's teed into the tank vent line? If so, where's the loop--before or after the y-valve? I need all the details you can give me. If no loop (which, since your toilet flushes directly overboard, there should be), is ANYthing teed into the tank vent line? This is definitely something I'll look for. The vent line comes off the top of the tank and heads toward the stern but it's hard to see back there so I've never traced it. It's *got* to be something like that. There is no such thing as the supernatural! I'll get back to you with my findings. Now I just need to decide whether I move up the job of cleaning out that nasty, greasy helm locker before I climb down in there to check this out. Stephen -- Peggie ---------- Peggie Hall Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987 Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor" http://69.20.93.241/store/customer/p...40&cat=&page=1 http://shop.sailboatowners.com/detai...=400&group=327 |
Magic Head
Please post your results here. You have peaked my curiosity.
-- Scott Vernon Plowville PA __/)__/)__ "Stephen Trapani" wrote in message ... Peggie Hall wrote: Lines.....WHOOPS--we may be onto something: Is there a vented loop in the head discharge line that has it's own tiny vent line that's teed into the tank vent line? If so, where's the loop--before or after the y-valve? I need all the details you can give me. If no loop (which, since your toilet flushes directly overboard, there should be), is ANYthing teed into the tank vent line? This is definitely something I'll look for. The vent line comes off the top of the tank and heads toward the stern but it's hard to see back there so I've never traced it. It's *got* to be something like that. There is no such thing as the supernatural! I'll get back to you with my findings. Now I just need to decide whether I move up the job of cleaning out that nasty, greasy helm locker before I climb down in there to check this out. Stephen |
Magic Head
If the tank was originally a recirculating head system and the PO decided fresh
water flush was nicer and capped the vent by mistake and hooked the vent up to the recirculating line going to the bottom of the tank you would have the problem you described. Check the tank and count the number of fittings on it. recirculating tanks have 2 big lines and 2 small lines. If you have this and one small line is capped just switch the small line for the small capped line and try it out. Interesting thought, Rolf...but I don't THINK Hunter ever installed those gawdawful recirculating systems. I've yet to hear of one anyway, and I've been giving plumbing advice on the Hunter Owners site for more than 5 years. All the builders who did install recirculating systems used Raritan Compact toilets and either the Raritan the 5 gallon tank that wraps around the bowl or a 5 gallon plastic tank made by Kracor...the OEM toilets on 70s and early 80s Hunters were Mansfield/SeaLand 751/752 manual toilets and their tanks were all aluminum. But even if they did, it's unlikely the original tank would still be on the boat. The toilet has definitely been replaced, and if the PO who did that ever intended to use the tank, it would also have been replaced with a larger one...'cuz once it was converted to use flush water instead of recirculating waste water, a 5 gallon tank would fill up in a day. It's also in the wrong location to have been part of a recirculating system. But as I said, it's a very interesting thought...I'm surprised anyone today even knew that those systems ever existed. -- Peggie ---------- Peggie Hall Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987 Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor" http://69.20.93.241/store/customer/p...40&cat=&page=1 |
Magic Head
Probably...
-- Keith __ You know you've hit the dock hard if it takes all your bilge pumps running at full power for you to step onto the dock. "Dave" wrote in message ... On Wed, 07 Jul 2004 23:27:45 GMT, "Scott Vernon" said: You have peaked my curiosity And prolly piqued it too. |
Magic Head
Dave wrote:
On Wed, 07 Jul 2004 23:27:45 GMT, "Scott Vernon" said: You have peaked my curiosity And prolly piqued it too. Oh, honestly--Picky, peaky, pique-y! I'll definitely make y'all get a peek at the answer. -- Peggie ---------- Peggie Hall Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987 Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor" http://69.20.93.241/store/customer/p...40&cat=&page=1 |
Magic Head
"Dave the Spelling Fairy" wrote ... You have peaked my curiosity And prolly piqued it too. yeah, that too. SV |
Magic Head
You can comment on someone else's improper word usage while using the word
"prolly"? How do you walk -- carry them in a wheelbarrow? ;-) -- Karin Conover-Lewis Fair and Balanced since 1959 klc dot lewis at centurytel dot net "Dave" wrote in message ... On Wed, 07 Jul 2004 23:27:45 GMT, "Scott Vernon" said: You have peaked my curiosity And prolly piqued it too. |
Magic Head
I took that as a Jax attempt at humor, but then, I try to see humor in
everything. -- Scott Vernon Plowville PA __/)__/)__ "Karin Conover-Lewis" wrote in message ... You can comment on someone else's improper word usage while using the word "prolly"? How do you walk -- carry them in a wheelbarrow? ;-) -- Karin Conover-Lewis Fair and Balanced since 1959 klc dot lewis at centurytel dot net "Dave" wrote in message ... On Wed, 07 Jul 2004 23:27:45 GMT, "Scott Vernon" said: You have peaked my curiosity And prolly piqued it too. |
Magic Head
Those are VERY kind words, John...thank you! :)
JohnH wrote: On Thu, 08 Jul 2004 19:06:33 GMT, Peggie Hall wrote: Dave wrote: On Wed, 07 Jul 2004 23:27:45 GMT, "Scott Vernon" said: You have peaked my curiosity And prolly piqued it too. Oh, honestly--Picky, peaky, pique-y! I'll definitely make y'all get a peek at the answer. Peggy, I don't have a head (on my boat), and I removed the porta-potty when my wife said she'd rather me do that than her be responsible for cleaning it. That means I have no reason whatsoever to read your posts. Except...I find them entertaining and enlightening as hell. You give great advice (I suppose!), and you do it with great wit and out of the goodness of your heart. You are a treasure. Please keep it up. Who knows, maybe someday I'll get a bigger boat, with something other than a plastic bowl! Thanks! John H On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD, on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay! -- Peggie ---------- Peggie Hall Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987 Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor" http://69.20.93.241/store/customer/p...40&cat=&page=1 http://shop.sailboatowners.com/detai...=400&group=327 |
Magic Head
See? Ain't hard to play Jax at all. lol
-- Karin Conover-Lewis Fair and Balanced since 1959 klc dot lewis at centurytel dot net "Scott Vernon" wrote in message ... I took that as a Jax attempt at humor, but then, I try to see humor in everything. |
Magic Head
Okay, time for me to pay the piper, face the music, um, take my lumps,
er, anyway... Turns out, I don't have a magic head, don't even have a difficult head problem due to some weird vent connection. What I have is: Peggie Hall wrote: Stephen Trapani wrote: When we use the head (a Groco Type K) and pump it out, the waste comes out the holding tank vent line. I meant when I pump the toilet... I knew that's what you meant. Okay, then I'm thinking logically, just going insane. Or I really do have a magic head! ;-) It's a plastic tank, I can see it's empty. Since you've used the toilet, or only after you vacuumed it out? 'Cuz it's very possible that the tank doesn't hold anywhere near as much as you think it does. How many gallons is it supposed to hold? It's also possible that the toilet either uses a lot more flush water than you think...or that it's leaking flush water, filling up the tank. Yeah the tank was full. Somehow my dreamworld must have gotten mixed up with reality, or my memory mixed up with itself, or something, so your first guess was the right one. Good job! Not only didn't I stump the headmistress I didn't even give her a little challenge. Oh well. No point going into the gory details of how I messed up, I'm kind of sketchy on that anyway, but you pretty much nailed it from the start. I would like to ask another question though, since we now know my confusion knows no bounds. Remember the head intake is connected to the fresh water system: ...reconnect it to the intake thru-hull--which I suspect you've mistaken for a head discharge thru-hull...I'll bet the PO "converted" it when he connected the intake to the fresh water system. ... could be, but the '79 Hunter 33' couldn't have been designed without a head discharge thru-hull, could it? Prob'ly not on one that old, but it's possible...'cuz '79 was the first model year to require holding tanks. Many boats built from then on were plumbed to send all the waste to the tank. But it's more likely that a PO prior to the most recent PO removed the head thru-hull and glassed it over...'cuz your toilet isn't original either (it's a $600 toilet, btw). So I'm guessing that the same PO who connected the intake to the fresh water system also installed that toilet and decided to use the sink drain through hull as a head discharge. However... Maybe it Y'd into the sink discharge? Should I try to run it to there? That'll work...in fact, although I don't think Hunter ever did, many sailboats are plumbed that way to eliminate a thru-hull. You will have to either keep a plug in the sink or install a shut=off valve in the sink drain line that should remain closed except when the sink is in use...otherwise the toilet will pull air through the sink that'll prevent it from priming and pulling in any flush water. So I have a through hull in the starboard locker near the head that appears to be attached to the Y-valve and a through hull way over under the port settee that, to the best of my knowledge is connected only to the sink discharge. Where should I connect the raw water intake for the head and where should I connect the overboard side of the head discharge? Stephen |
Magic Head
Stephen Trapani wrote:
Okay, time for me to pay the piper, face the music, um, take my lumps, er, anyway... Turns out, I don't have a magic head, don't even have a difficult head problem due to some weird vent connection. What I have is: Yeah the tank was full. Somehow my dreamworld must have gotten mixed up with reality, or my memory mixed up with itself, or something, so your first guess was the right one. Good job! Not only didn't I stump the headmistress I didn't even give her a little challenge. Oh well. So I have a through hull in the starboard locker near the head that appears to be attached to the Y-valve and a through hull way over under the port settee that, to the best of my knowledge is connected only to the sink discharge. Where should I connect the raw water intake for the head and where should I connect the overboard side of the head discharge? Welll... You can use the same 3/4" thru-hull for both the head sink drain and the head intake, but you cannot use the same thru-hull for both the head intake and discharge. Since you don't have a 1.5" head discharge thru-hull/seacock, you'll have to install one...or maybe not, unless you're in coastal waters that offer immediate access to open sea at least 3 miles offshore from the nearest point on the whole US coastline...'cuz it's illegal to flush a toilet directly overboard or dump a tank in any US coastal waters inside the "3 mile limit" and in all inland waters including the Great Lakes. Getting you sorted out is gonna be more involved than is practical here. So how 'bout emailing me? -- Peggie ---------- Peggie Hall Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987 Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor" http://69.20.93.241/store/customer/p...40&cat=&page=1 |
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