After 2+ years of no problems, in the Bahamas and the U.S., the head vent on
our sailboat has become a problem in the last year. We try to do the right
thing: Odorlos, regular pumpouts with fresh water, etc. We are thinking
about installing an inline filter for the vent, thinking about using
something called the Shock treatment, etc.

But, before we do those things, we are looking for other suggestions.

TIA

Elliott Alterman wrote:
After 2+ years of no problems, in the Bahamas and the U.S., the head vent on
our sailboat has become a problem in the last year. We try to do the right
thing: Odorlos, regular pumpouts with fresh water, etc. We are thinking
about installing an inline filter for the vent, thinking about using
something called the Shock treatment, etc.

But, before we do those things, we are looking for other suggestions.

I've never heard any product called "shock treatment"...I suspect it's
just what people call flushing out the tank with a heavy dose of bleach
in the mistaken belief that'll cure an odor problem (it won't).

And I'm not a fan of vent filters at all, but really don't like 'em on
sailboats. They're expensive--$50+--only last a year at most, and are
"toast" immediately if they ever get wet...which is just about
impossible to prevent on any sailboat that spills waste out the vent
when they're heeled, and also makes it impossible to flush out the vent
line to prevent those spills from clogging up the vent.

If everything was fine for more than 2 years, then suddenly "went
south," it has to mean that something in the system has changed that
affects the amount of oxygen in the tank. And that can ONLY be the vent.
So let's figure out what...

Have you been using a chemical tank product, only switching to Odorlos
AFTER you began to experience odor out the vent? If so, are you trying
to combine Odorlos with anything else?

Have you changed the vent...rerouted it to different thru-hull and/or
made it longer with additional bends in it?

When if ever have you checked your tank vent for a blockage or partial
blockage? The two most likely places are the thru-hull and the
connection on the tank. If you're outside of coastal US waters most of
the time, you prob'ly haven't been using the tank much...and that
creates a perfect opportunity for the vent to clog up. Any waste that's
spilled out while heeled when you were using has a chance to harden and
build up in the thru-hull and tank fitting...insects, even dust and
pollen, can build up in the thru-hull...and either or both can block it
partially or completely.

In most cases, a total blockage would pressurize the tank, creating
increasing backpressure when you flush the toilet. But if you're only
using the tank intermittently when you have to, enough air could escape
back through the toilet to keep the tank from pressurizing. And if
there's not much in the tank when you pump it out or dump it, there
could still be enough air in the tank to allow it to be emptied before
the pumpout or macerator pulls a vacuum. A partial blockage wouldn't
necessarily cause any problems BUT an increase in odor out the vent.

If there's much of a bend in the vent line, it may have collapsed and
kinked.

Any of the above is possible...the one thing I'm sure of is that the
problem IS the tank vent--that something about it has changed that's
reducing the air flow. Find it and you'll cure the odor problem.

--
Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://69.20.93.241/store/customer/p...40&cat=&page=1

In article ,
Peggie Hall wrote:

Any of the above is possible...the one thing I'm sure of is that the
problem IS the tank vent--that something about it has changed that's
reducing the air flow. Find it and you'll cure the odor problem.

I'm mostly tagging in to thank you for your advice. Backing up your
analysis isn't really needed.

This spring, I plumbed our second vent line a bit better. It's 3/4" ID,
a couple of feet long, and now goes pretty much straight up to a nylon
through-hull high on the hull. The first vent is about 1.25" ID and
only a few inches long, but includes a 90 degree bend. Not an ideal
installation, but the results of the combination are amazing. With just
the single actually active vent, we still had odor when we flushed. Now,
the tank contents are virtually odor free, as we found out when the
toilet backed up. The major smell was a slightly yeasty odor from what I
believe was an overdose of Odorloss (it diminished greatly the second
time a few weeks later), and there's nothing noticable downwind when
someone flushes.

Oxygen, LOTS of oxygen!

--
Jere Lull
Xan-a-Deux ('73 Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD)
Xan's Pages: http://members.dca.net/jerelull/X-Main.html
Our BVI FAQs (290+ pics) http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

Late getting into this - just got back form a summer on the boat. We
live on the boat all summer, and the holding tak gets a lot of use -
odor isn't too bad, but the 1st mate complains about it all the time.

The system is 34 years old. The tank is polyethylene, I think, and
appears to be in good shape. The hose from the head to the tank is
real heavy red hose, and it too looks to be in good shape. The tank is
behind the head - the hose run is about 3 feet, most of it vertical.
Since we have a relatively small tank (maybe 15 gallons), we put as
little water through as possible, so we can go for a week to 10 days
between pumpouts. However, this procedure leaves some liquid type
waste in the hose.

I've been using the traditional head chemicals, of the "kill
everything that moves" variety, and have just started heading about
this product "Odorloss". I gather it is one of the enzyme thingys. IfI
want to switch to this, what is the best way to get all the old
chemical out? Just flush, pump, flush, pump?

My tank vent setup is dumb - a right angle at the tank, then about a
six foot run of 5/8" hose forward, then a vent.

My head and tank is just forward of midships. I could run a vent hose
to a vent in the hull right there - about 1 foot of hose. I don't know
if there is any way to install a larger vent connection to the tank.
Would just shortening the hose help? Should the hull vent be one of
the kind with the small holes and the screen, or should I just use a
plastic through-hull? Should I make the vent connection a lot larger?
If so, any thoughts on how to fasten a larger hose connection the the
polyethylene tank?

How about the hose? What is the best hose to replace the old one with?

I want to keep the 1st mate happy, and a nice smelling boat helps.

Thanks

Jere Lull wrote:

In article ,
Peggie Hall wrote:

Any of the above is possible...the one thing I'm sure of is that the
problem IS the tank vent--that something about it has changed that's
reducing the air flow. Find it and you'll cure the odor problem.

I'm mostly tagging in to thank you for your advice. Backing up your
analysis isn't really needed.

This spring, I plumbed our second vent line a bit better. It's 3/4" ID,
a couple of feet long, and now goes pretty much straight up to a nylon
through-hull high on the hull. The first vent is about 1.25" ID and
only a few inches long, but includes a 90 degree bend. Not an ideal
installation, but the results of the combination are amazing. With just
the single actually active vent, we still had odor when we flushed. Now,
the tank contents are virtually odor free, as we found out when the
toilet backed up. The major smell was a slightly yeasty odor from what I
believe was an overdose of Odorloss (it diminished greatly the second
time a few weeks later), and there's nothing noticable downwind when
someone flushes.

Oxygen, LOTS of oxygen!

Larry Bradley VE3CRX
Remove "removeme" from my e-mail address for direct mail
Ottawa, Canada

(use the e-mail address above to send directly to me)

Maybe of interest ... http://www.trailerlife.com/output.cfm?id=859609

"Larry Bradley" wrote in message
...
Late getting into this - just got back form a summer on the boat. We
live on the boat all summer, and the holding tak gets a lot of use -
odor isn't too bad, but the 1st mate complains about it all the time.

The system is 34 years old. The tank is polyethylene, I think, and
appears to be in good shape. The hose from the head to the tank is
real heavy red hose, and it too looks to be in good shape. The tank is
behind the head - the hose run is about 3 feet, most of it vertical.
Since we have a relatively small tank (maybe 15 gallons), we put as
little water through as possible, so we can go for a week to 10 days
between pumpouts. However, this procedure leaves some liquid type
waste in the hose.

I've been using the traditional head chemicals, of the "kill
everything that moves" variety, and have just started heading about
this product "Odorloss". I gather it is one of the enzyme thingys. IfI
want to switch to this, what is the best way to get all the old
chemical out? Just flush, pump, flush, pump?

My tank vent setup is dumb - a right angle at the tank, then about a
six foot run of 5/8" hose forward, then a vent.

My head and tank is just forward of midships. I could run a vent hose
to a vent in the hull right there - about 1 foot of hose. I don't know
if there is any way to install a larger vent connection to the tank.
Would just shortening the hose help? Should the hull vent be one of
the kind with the small holes and the screen, or should I just use a
plastic through-hull? Should I make the vent connection a lot larger?
If so, any thoughts on how to fasten a larger hose connection the the
polyethylene tank?

How about the hose? What is the best hose to replace the old one with?

I want to keep the 1st mate happy, and a nice smelling boat helps.

Thanks

Jere Lull wrote:

In article ,
Peggie Hall wrote:

Any of the above is possible...the one thing I'm sure of is that the
problem IS the tank vent--that something about it has changed that's
reducing the air flow. Find it and you'll cure the odor problem.

I'm mostly tagging in to thank you for your advice. Backing up your
analysis isn't really needed.

This spring, I plumbed our second vent line a bit better. It's 3/4" ID,
a couple of feet long, and now goes pretty much straight up to a nylon
through-hull high on the hull. The first vent is about 1.25" ID and
only a few inches long, but includes a 90 degree bend. Not an ideal
installation, but the results of the combination are amazing. With just
the single actually active vent, we still had odor when we flushed. Now,
the tank contents are virtually odor free, as we found out when the
toilet backed up. The major smell was a slightly yeasty odor from what I
believe was an overdose of Odorloss (it diminished greatly the second
time a few weeks later), and there's nothing noticable downwind when
someone flushes.

Oxygen, LOTS of oxygen!

Larry Bradley VE3CRX
Remove "removeme" from my e-mail address for direct mail
Ottawa, Canada

(use the e-mail address above to send directly to me)

Bowgus,
Makes one wonder what happens when the vacuum gets real high. Might not
want to be driving next to this trailer when this happens. :-) I can just
visualize a self cleaning head.
Paul

"Bowgus" wrote in message
...
Maybe of interest ... http://www.trailerlife.com/output.cfm?id=859609

"Larry Bradley" wrote in message
...
Late getting into this - just got back form a summer on the boat. We
live on the boat all summer, and the holding tak gets a lot of use -
odor isn't too bad, but the 1st mate complains about it all the time.

The system is 34 years old. The tank is polyethylene, I think, and
appears to be in good shape. The hose from the head to the tank is
real heavy red hose, and it too looks to be in good shape. The tank is
behind the head - the hose run is about 3 feet, most of it vertical.
Since we have a relatively small tank (maybe 15 gallons), we put as
little water through as possible, so we can go for a week to 10 days
between pumpouts. However, this procedure leaves some liquid type
waste in the hose.

I've been using the traditional head chemicals, of the "kill
everything that moves" variety, and have just started heading about
this product "Odorloss". I gather it is one of the enzyme thingys. IfI
want to switch to this, what is the best way to get all the old
chemical out? Just flush, pump, flush, pump?

My tank vent setup is dumb - a right angle at the tank, then about a
six foot run of 5/8" hose forward, then a vent.

My head and tank is just forward of midships. I could run a vent hose
to a vent in the hull right there - about 1 foot of hose. I don't know
if there is any way to install a larger vent connection to the tank.
Would just shortening the hose help? Should the hull vent be one of
the kind with the small holes and the screen, or should I just use a
plastic through-hull? Should I make the vent connection a lot larger?
If so, any thoughts on how to fasten a larger hose connection the the
polyethylene tank?

How about the hose? What is the best hose to replace the old one with?

I want to keep the 1st mate happy, and a nice smelling boat helps.

Thanks

Jere Lull wrote:

In article ,
Peggie Hall wrote:

Any of the above is possible...the one thing I'm sure of is that the
problem IS the tank vent--that something about it has changed that's
reducing the air flow. Find it and you'll cure the odor problem.

I'm mostly tagging in to thank you for your advice. Backing up your
analysis isn't really needed.

This spring, I plumbed our second vent line a bit better. It's 3/4" ID,
a couple of feet long, and now goes pretty much straight up to a nylon
through-hull high on the hull. The first vent is about 1.25" ID and
only a few inches long, but includes a 90 degree bend. Not an ideal
installation, but the results of the combination are amazing. With just
the single actually active vent, we still had odor when we flushed. Now,
the tank contents are virtually odor free, as we found out when the
toilet backed up. The major smell was a slightly yeasty odor from what I
believe was an overdose of Odorloss (it diminished greatly the second
time a few weeks later), and there's nothing noticable downwind when
someone flushes.

Oxygen, LOTS of oxygen!

Larry Bradley VE3CRX
Remove "removeme" from my e-mail address for direct mail
Ottawa, Canada

(use the e-mail address above to send directly to me)

Larry Bradley wrote:
Late getting into this - just got back form a summer on the boat. We
live on the boat all summer, and the holding tak gets a lot of use -
odor isn't too bad, but the 1st mate complains about it all the time.

My first question is, do you have odor inside the boat? Out the tank
vent? Both? 'Cuz they're two entirely separate issues. The tank--unless
it's leaking--cannot be the source of odor inside the boat, 'cuz odor
from inside the tank has only one place to go: out the tank vent. So any
change in tank venting or holding tank product to try to eliminate odor
inside the boat is just chasing your tail.

The system is 34 years old. The tank is polyethylene, I think, and
appears to be in good shape. The hose from the head to the tank is
real heavy red hose, and it too looks to be in good shape.

I know of no hose rated for sanitation use that's red. As for how it
looks, that's no indication of whether it's become permeated with
odor...and if you do have odor inside the boat, it's a pretty good bet
that it has.

The tank is
behind the head - the hose run is about 3 feet, most of it vertical.
Since we have a relatively small tank (maybe 15 gallons), we put as
little water through as possible, so we can go for a week to 10 days
between pumpouts. However, this procedure leaves some liquid type
waste in the hose.

That's because you don't flush long enough in the dry mode move the bowl
contents all the way into the tank. Any marine toilet that's working
anywhere close to factory specs can move waste at least 6' in the dry
mode...and should have no trouble moving it 3', even if the hose is
vertical.


I've been using the traditional head chemicals, of the "kill
everything that moves" variety, and have just started heading about
this product "Odorloss". I gather it is one of the enzyme thingys. IfI
want to switch to this, what is the best way to get all the old
chemical out? Just flush, pump, flush, pump?

Yep...that's the only way. Odorlos is not an enzyme product...the active
ingredient is nitrates, which promote oxygen release from the waste,
creating the necessary aerobic conditions to allow the tank contents to
break down without producing any odor.

My tank vent setup is dumb - a right angle at the tank, then about a
six foot run of 5/8" hose forward, then a vent.

A foot or so longer than I'd like it to be and half the diameter, but a
single 90 fitting on the tank is no problem as long the line is straight
and there isn't another 90 at the thru-hull.


My head and tank is just forward of midships. I could run a vent hose
to a vent in the hull right there - about 1 foot of hose. I don't know
if there is any way to install a larger vent connection to the tank.

There is...and it's gotten a lot easier to do since a li'l doodad called
the UniSeal hit the market that makes it a piece of cake to install a
new fitting in a poly tank. Check it on the mfr's website he
http://www.aussieglobe.com/avs96.htm This company also makes the best
sanitation hose on the market--AVS96...16x more resistant to odor
permeation than any other hose.


Would just shortening the hose help?

Anything you do to improve ventilation inside the tank will help to
eliminate odor out the vent...but it won't help odor inside the boat a bit.

Should the hull vent be one of
the kind with the small holes and the screen, or should I just use a
plastic through-hull?

Use an open bulkhead fitting...1" diameter or larger.

I want to keep the 1st mate happy, and a nice smelling boat helps.

Try cleaning your bilges and sumps. You'd be amazed at the number of
people I hear from who've torn out/replaced their entire sanitation
systems trying to get rid of what they thought was "head" odor...when
just cleaning the sumps and bilges was all the boat needed...'cuz irty
bilges and sumps can make a boat smell like a swamp, or even a sewer.

--
Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://69.20.93.241/store/customer/p...40&cat=&page=1