Alternative power Refrigeration
 

Jax, you are so full of BS.

not at all.

Norcold and Dometic both say that their
units should be level within 2º

----------------- when parked ----------------

and should never exceed 10º
while operating underway.

------------------ on a steady incline -------------

Sloshing side to side does prevent pooling as
long as the tilting is fairly equal in both directions.

nah. you just need enough motion to pitch the liquid inside back to more less
the vertical so it runs back to the burner.

Sailboats on
passage tend to remain on one tack, and therefore heel in one direction,
for several hours.

not part of the problem. see above.


In short, when I asked tech support at both companies to recommend their
products for my boat they both said don't do it.

neither guy knew how his system worked.

btw, propane reefers probably aren't right for extended usage tilted at angles
of 25* or higher, but damned few boats these days sail anything but poorly
tipped over that far. If you are going to be heeled over on you ear for a long
period of time, turn the reefer off.

gas absorbtion reefers need the burner as its lowest spot in the system. Tilt
them over too far and some turn in the system is lowest. shake the system
around by wave action (something RV's don't do while parked) the liquid gets
back to the burner. tilt the unit (as in a parked RV) too far and let the
burner run it will scorch the inside of the chamber and the system will no
longer work.


JAXAshby wrote:
The
real problem with absorption cycle refrigeration (gas refrigerators) is
that they must stay within 5 to 7 degrees of vertical.


not true. unless the vehicle is NOT moving side to side.

--
Glenn Ashmore

I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com
Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com

Alternative power Refrigeration
 

Jax, you are so full of BS.
...
In short, when I asked tech support at both companies to recommend their
products for my boat they both said don't do it.

Eric Hiscock used one (a kerosene model) in his boat for years (decades?) and
thought highly of it.

Alternative power Refrigeration
 

On 04 Jul 2004 13:17:53 GMT, (JAXAshby) wrote:

you don't understand how the system works. please don't comment again.

The
real problem with absorption cycle refrigeration (gas refrigerators) is
that they must stay within 5 to 7 degrees of vertical.

not true. unless the vehicle is NOT moving side to side.

lateral forces mimic inclination.



Well, I'm beginning to understand how the system works....someone
posts something....you wank away....someone disagree....you display
the depth of your knowledge and charm....and the cycle goes on.

Alternative power Refrigeration
 

You people seem to have missed two things in the thermodynamics part of
your education.

A Servel Cycle (the identifier for water/hydrogen/ammonia abortion
refrigeration) requires both the persistance of two liquid/vapor seals
and a lot of vertical room.

The vertical height is required so the ammonia can get condensed and
then be run down into the evaporator by gravity.

The two sealing loops separate a: ammonia vapor from ammonia liquid and
hydrogen and b: water from hydrogen.

The "household" units - these include RV - do not have seals that work
well out of vertical. Seals for these have been designed that do just
fine at a considerable offset. If the seals get blow out, they will
re-establish themselves with a reasonable amount of running time.

A one time I was employed by a company that was in the process of
developing a refrigeration system that could used the exhaust heat of an
RV to be the motivating heat for the refrigeration (apart from the fact
that the system had real flexability issues as far as installaion) the
whole program went down in flames whent he bottom fell out of the RV
market during the original Arab Oil Embargo.

Another issue for sailors would be that the COP (co-efficient of
performance - sort of the effieciency) of Servel units was not as good
as an R12 or R22 unit.

Matt Colie


Horace Brownbag wrote:
On 04 Jul 2004 02:05:22 GMT, (JAXAshby) wrote:


The
real problem with absorption cycle refrigeration (gas refrigerators) is
that they must stay within 5 to 7 degrees of vertical.

not true. unless the vehicle is NOT moving side to side.


lateral forces mimic inclination.

Alternative power Refrigeration
 

whore ace, you know nothing about gas absorbtion refrigeration. go stand in
the corner and be quiet. do not interupt the discussion again.


you don't understand how the system works. please don't comment again.

The
real problem with absorption cycle refrigeration (gas refrigerators) is
that they must stay within 5 to 7 degrees of vertical.

not true. unless the vehicle is NOT moving side to side.

lateral forces mimic inclination.



Well, I'm beginning to understand how the system works....someone
posts something....you wank away....someone disagree....you display
the depth of your knowledge and charm....and the cycle goes on.

Alternative power Refrigeration
 

hore ace, here is the stupid statement you made which shows to one and all you
don't have a clew what you are talking about in regard to gas absorbtion
refrigeration and were just picking junk out of the air just to say something
hoping the rest of us here might notice you. you act like a high school
sophomore whose voice has not yet changed. go away and come back when you
shave at least twice a week.

lateral forces mimic inclination.

Alternative power Refrigeration
 

matt, close but no cigar. the unit needs to be more or less vertical so that
the liquid drains all the way back to the burner. If the liquid does not get
back there they burner pot gets scorched and the unit is ruined.

but yes, a cigar regarding efficiency. gas absorbtion refrigerators are much
less efficient than compressor reefers, when comparing energy input vs cooling
capacity. One a boat, electricity is incredibly expensive to make per
kilowatt, and HUGELY expensive compared to the same kilowatt purchased as
propane.

A kilowatt of electricity produced on a boat can cost $2 to $5 dollars EACH,
while a gallon of propane (about 90,000 btu's, or about 30 kilowatts) goes for
maybe a couple bucks (? I can't remember how much I paid for 10# of propane
last summer, but it certainly was pocket change)

You people seem to have missed two things in the thermodynamics part of
your education.

A Servel Cycle (the identifier for water/hydrogen/ammonia abortion
refrigeration) requires both the persistance of two liquid/vapor seals
and a lot of vertical room.

The vertical height is required so the ammonia can get condensed and
then be run down into the evaporator by gravity.

The two sealing loops separate a: ammonia vapor from ammonia liquid and
hydrogen and b: water from hydrogen.

The "household" units - these include RV - do not have seals that work
well out of vertical. Seals for these have been designed that do just
fine at a considerable offset. If the seals get blow out, they will
re-establish themselves with a reasonable amount of running time.

A one time I was employed by a company that was in the process of
developing a refrigeration system that could used the exhaust heat of an
RV to be the motivating heat for the refrigeration (apart from the fact
that the system had real flexability issues as far as installaion) the
whole program went down in flames whent he bottom fell out of the RV
market during the original Arab Oil Embargo.

Another issue for sailors would be that the COP (co-efficient of
performance - sort of the effieciency) of Servel units was not as good
as an R12 or R22 unit.

Matt Colie


Horace Brownbag wrote:
On 04 Jul 2004 02:05:22 GMT, (JAXAshby) wrote:


The
real problem with absorption cycle refrigeration (gas refrigerators) is
that they must stay within 5 to 7 degrees of vertical.

not true. unless the vehicle is NOT moving side to side.


lateral forces mimic inclination.

Alternative power Refrigeration
 

On 04 Jul 2004 15:18:29 GMT, (JAXAshby) wrote:

hore ace, here is the stupid statement you made which shows to one and all you
don't have a clew what you are talking about in regard to gas absorbtion
refrigeration and were just picking junk out of the air just to say something
hoping the rest of us here might notice you. you act like a high school
sophomore whose voice has not yet changed. go away and come back when you
shave at least twice a week.

lateral forces mimic inclination.

Well, let me struggle through this as best I can't and hope my voice
doesn't crack.

You've just eaten a nice thick cool slice of watermelon. The plate is
full of juice. The plate will do it job if it's not tipped, or moved
laterally, without tipping, faster than the inertial mass of the fluid
on the plate..oops, there goes the watermelon juice....

No juice in the evaporator; no cool watermelon.

....oh, sorry, gotta go, my mom wants me to clean up my room.

Alternative power Refrigeration
 

whore ace, you are comparing watermelon on dinner plates to gas absorbtion
refrigerators.

why? Because you think you understand dinner plates?

go back to study hall. lunch is not for another 45 minutes.


hore ace, here is the stupid statement you made which shows to one and all
you
don't have a clew what you are talking about in regard to gas absorbtion
refrigeration and were just picking junk out of the air just to say
something
hoping the rest of us here might notice you. you act like a high school
sophomore whose voice has not yet changed. go away and come back when you
shave at least twice a week.

lateral forces mimic inclination.

Well, let me struggle through this as best I can't and hope my voice
doesn't crack.

You've just eaten a nice thick cool slice of watermelon. The plate is
full of juice. The plate will do it job if it's not tipped, or moved
laterally, without tipping, faster than the inertial mass of the fluid
on the plate..oops, there goes the watermelon juice....

No juice in the evaporator; no cool watermelon.

...oh, sorry, gotta go, my mom wants me to clean up my room.

Alternative power Refrigeration
 

whore ace, would you mind very much explaining to the ng just how a dinner
plate is like the pot of a closed gas absorbtion reefer system?

[stay awake people, if you can. whore ace is going to try to sound like an
11th grader]

The plate will do it job if it's not tipped, or moved
laterally, without tipping, faster than the inertial mass of the fluid
on the plate