Holding tank vent blocked
 

I've got a 35ft sailboat. With a 20 gallon holding tank under the
quarter berth. My vent is blocked and I can't use my head. Flushing
(which I have ceased until I fix it) just expands the holding tank
(not good). I found some blockage at the holding tank outlet in the
tube. There was enough extra that I cut out about 3" and put it back
on. Still blocked. I can crawl into the lazarette and see the hose
(it's fairly translucent) but I can't detect any blockages. The
tubing also has a foul odor and I want to replace it. I can't get at
the vent thru-hull because it's just below the toe rail and in a spot
I can just barely reach with my fingertips. I suspect it is blocked
up at the thru-hull but can't prove it. I was thinking it might be
easier to install a new thru-hull. I was thinking of putting the new
vent in the cockpit with a SeaLand inline "holding tank vent filter"
installed below decks to eliminate the chance of odors. My proposed
location is in front of the helmsman's seat about 3 feet aft of the
holding tank vent opening and about 8" - 10" below the toe rail level.
The vent line would run aft under the quarter berth about 18" and
down about 6" then make a slight turn and go up about 3 feet then turn
aft and gently rise another 6" to the proposed vent thru-hull
location.

Does anyone have any thoughts or criticisms on this proposed method?
What would Peggy say?

In advance,
Thanks

Holding tank vent blocked
 

On Monday 28 June 2004 8:36 pm in rec.boats.cruising Mollie wrote:

I found some blockage at the holding tank outlet in the
tube. There was enough extra that I cut out about 3" and put it back
on. Still blocked.

It is highly likely that a blockage has built up before the on that you
removed. Did you poke a suitable implement back into the tank while you had
the pipe off ?

--
My real address is crn (at) netunix (dot) com
WARNING all messages containing attachments or html will be silently
deleted. Send only plain text.

Holding tank vent blocked
 

Mollie wrote:
I've got a 35ft sailboat. With a 20 gallon holding tank under the
quarter berth. My vent is blocked and I can't use my head. Flushing
(which I have ceased until I fix it)...

The right thing to do...

just expands the holding tank
(not good).

Definitely not good! 'Cuz that can result in anything from an eruption
in the toilet to a burst tank.

I found some blockage at the holding tank outlet in the
tube. There was enough extra that I cut out about 3" and put it back
on. Still blocked. I can crawl into the lazarette and see the hose
(it's fairly translucent) but I can't detect any blockages.

Most likely it's the thru-hull that's clogged. The two most common
places, especially on sailboats, are the vent fitting on the tank and
the thru-hull...caused by waste spilling out the vent while heeled.


The
tubing also has a foul odor and I want to replace it.

That won't cure any blockage in the thru-hull, but it's a good idea
anyway. Use sanitation hose, not clear hose again.

I can't get at
the vent thru-hull because it's just below the toe rail and in a spot
I can just barely reach with my fingertips.

You should be able to clean it out with a screw driver blade from the
outside...but you will have get to it inside the boat to replace the
vent hose.

I was thinking it might be
easier to install a new thru-hull.

Also a good idea, but you'll still have to get to the existing one from
the inside of the boat to remove it and to the inside of a new one to
put a new hose onto it.

I was thinking of putting the new
vent in the cockpit with a SeaLand inline "holding tank vent filter"
installed below decks to eliminate the chance of odors.

Noooo...vent filters are a bad idea on any boat because they create the
very problem they're sold to solve by restricting the flow of air in and
out the vent. They're also expensive--over $50/each...they only last one
season at most...and they're "toast" immediately if they get wet--which
makes 'em an even worse idea on sailboats that spill tank contents out
the vent when heeled...and makes it impossible to flush out the vent
line regularly to keep it from becoming clogged.

Also, I'm not sure what you hope to accomplish by installing one...'cuz
they won't cure any odor problem inside the boat, only odor out the tank
vent.


My proposed
location is in front of the helmsman's seat about 3 feet aft of the
holding tank vent opening and about 8" - 10" below the toe rail level.
The vent line would run aft under the quarter berth about 18" and
down about 6" then make a slight turn and go up about 3 feet then turn
aft and gently rise another 6" to the proposed vent thru-hull
location.

Again--nooooooo! You want the tank vent line to be as SHORT and STRAIGHT
as possible. Your plan has at least 3 90s in it, is at least twice as
long as needs to be, and goes the wrong direction from the tank...it
should go forward, not aft.

What would Peggy say?

Yikes! :) Let's explore the right way to do this...Where's the tank
located in the boat? How far from the head?

--
Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://69.20.93.241/store/customer/p...40&cat=&page=1
http://shop.sailboatowners.com/detai...=400&group=327

Holding tank vent blocked
 

As I said, it's a 35' sailboat with 11.5' beam. The toilet is just in
front of the starboard cockpit locker (about 9 feet from the stern).
I don't have any odors or problems in the head itself aside from some
minor fresh water seepage at the top of the plunger (even after
installing a rebuild kit on my Raritan PHII). The holding tank is on
the port side. The tank is a heavy plastic one, rectangular in shape
and looks to be about 10-12" deep (est.). The current vent tube exits
the holding tank on the aft end. The vent tubing goes aft further
about 18" to just aft of the quarter berth. Before exiting into the
lazarette it actually goes down a few inches. It exits into the
lazarette and makes a fairly hard turn and goes up the inside of the
hull to the thru-hull that is just below the toe rail. Thinking
through the actual routing of this tubing, I imagine there is a strong
possibility that the blockage could be at the turn into the lazarette
being that it has the combination of being the lowest point in the
line and at the same time being the location of the sharpest turn in
the line. Does this explain the setup/layout enough?

Peggie Hall wrote in message ...
Mollie wrote:
I've got a 35ft sailboat. With a 20 gallon holding tank under the
quarter berth. My vent is blocked and I can't use my head. Flushing
(which I have ceased until I fix it)...

The right thing to do...

just expands the holding tank
(not good).

Definitely not good! 'Cuz that can result in anything from an eruption
in the toilet to a burst tank.

I found some blockage at the holding tank outlet in the
tube. There was enough extra that I cut out about 3" and put it back
on. Still blocked. I can crawl into the lazarette and see the hose
(it's fairly translucent) but I can't detect any blockages.

Most likely it's the thru-hull that's clogged. The two most common
places, especially on sailboats, are the vent fitting on the tank and
the thru-hull...caused by waste spilling out the vent while heeled.


The
tubing also has a foul odor and I want to replace it.

That won't cure any blockage in the thru-hull, but it's a good idea
anyway. Use sanitation hose, not clear hose again.

I can't get at
the vent thru-hull because it's just below the toe rail and in a spot
I can just barely reach with my fingertips.

You should be able to clean it out with a screw driver blade from the
outside...but you will have get to it inside the boat to replace the
vent hose.

I was thinking it might be
easier to install a new thru-hull.

Also a good idea, but you'll still have to get to the existing one from
the inside of the boat to remove it and to the inside of a new one to
put a new hose onto it.

I was thinking of putting the new
vent in the cockpit with a SeaLand inline "holding tank vent filter"
installed below decks to eliminate the chance of odors.

Noooo...vent filters are a bad idea on any boat because they create the
very problem they're sold to solve by restricting the flow of air in and
out the vent. They're also expensive--over $50/each...they only last one
season at most...and they're "toast" immediately if they get wet--which
makes 'em an even worse idea on sailboats that spill tank contents out
the vent when heeled...and makes it impossible to flush out the vent
line regularly to keep it from becoming clogged.

Also, I'm not sure what you hope to accomplish by installing one...'cuz
they won't cure any odor problem inside the boat, only odor out the tank
vent.


My proposed
location is in front of the helmsman's seat about 3 feet aft of the
holding tank vent opening and about 8" - 10" below the toe rail level.
The vent line would run aft under the quarter berth about 18" and
down about 6" then make a slight turn and go up about 3 feet then turn
aft and gently rise another 6" to the proposed vent thru-hull
location.

Again--nooooooo! You want the tank vent line to be as SHORT and STRAIGHT
as possible. Your plan has at least 3 90s in it, is at least twice as
long as needs to be, and goes the wrong direction from the tank...it
should go forward, not aft.

What would Peggy say?

Yikes! :) Let's explore the right way to do this...Where's the tank
located in the boat? How far from the head?

--
Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://69.20.93.241/store/customer/p...40&cat=&page=1
http://shop.sailboatowners.com/detai...=400&group=327

Holding tank vent blocked
 

Side comment that I forgot from the previous post. It released the
built up pressure from the tank quickly when I took the vent tube off
the holding tank. I also verified that the vent was clear going back
into the holding tank when I removed the vent tube. I used a
screwdriver and there was nothing there.

Peggie Hall wrote in message ...
Mollie wrote:
I've got a 35ft sailboat. With a 20 gallon holding tank under the
quarter berth. My vent is blocked and I can't use my head. Flushing
(which I have ceased until I fix it)...

The right thing to do...

just expands the holding tank
(not good).

Definitely not good! 'Cuz that can result in anything from an eruption
in the toilet to a burst tank.

I found some blockage at the holding tank outlet in the
tube. There was enough extra that I cut out about 3" and put it back
on. Still blocked. I can crawl into the lazarette and see the hose
(it's fairly translucent) but I can't detect any blockages.

Most likely it's the thru-hull that's clogged. The two most common
places, especially on sailboats, are the vent fitting on the tank and
the thru-hull...caused by waste spilling out the vent while heeled.


The
tubing also has a foul odor and I want to replace it.

That won't cure any blockage in the thru-hull, but it's a good idea
anyway. Use sanitation hose, not clear hose again.

I can't get at
the vent thru-hull because it's just below the toe rail and in a spot
I can just barely reach with my fingertips.

You should be able to clean it out with a screw driver blade from the
outside...but you will have get to it inside the boat to replace the
vent hose.

I was thinking it might be
easier to install a new thru-hull.

Also a good idea, but you'll still have to get to the existing one from
the inside of the boat to remove it and to the inside of a new one to
put a new hose onto it.

I was thinking of putting the new
vent in the cockpit with a SeaLand inline "holding tank vent filter"
installed below decks to eliminate the chance of odors.

Noooo...vent filters are a bad idea on any boat because they create the
very problem they're sold to solve by restricting the flow of air in and
out the vent. They're also expensive--over $50/each...they only last one
season at most...and they're "toast" immediately if they get wet--which
makes 'em an even worse idea on sailboats that spill tank contents out
the vent when heeled...and makes it impossible to flush out the vent
line regularly to keep it from becoming clogged.

Also, I'm not sure what you hope to accomplish by installing one...'cuz
they won't cure any odor problem inside the boat, only odor out the tank
vent.


My proposed
location is in front of the helmsman's seat about 3 feet aft of the
holding tank vent opening and about 8" - 10" below the toe rail level.
The vent line would run aft under the quarter berth about 18" and
down about 6" then make a slight turn and go up about 3 feet then turn
aft and gently rise another 6" to the proposed vent thru-hull
location.

Again--nooooooo! You want the tank vent line to be as SHORT and STRAIGHT
as possible. Your plan has at least 3 90s in it, is at least twice as
long as needs to be, and goes the wrong direction from the tank...it
should go forward, not aft.

What would Peggy say?

Yikes! :) Let's explore the right way to do this...Where's the tank
located in the boat? How far from the head?

--
Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://69.20.93.241/store/customer/p...40&cat=&page=1
http://shop.sailboatowners.com/detai...=400&group=327

Holding tank vent blocked
 

Mollie wrote:
As I said, it's a 35' sailboat with 11.5' beam....The holding tank is on
the port side. The tank is a heavy plastic one, rectangular in shape
and looks to be about 10-12" deep (est.)...

Where is the tank located, Mollie? On some 35.5 Beneateaus, it's just
aft of the head, in the port lazarette at the forward end of the
cockpit. If that's where yours is, the vent thru-hull should be right
next the tank and the line should go straight to it, using an elbow
fitting on the tank. That would give you a straight vent line less than
2' long. From your description it even sounds like that's actually
where the thru-hull is...but the vent line takes a "tour of the boat" to
get from the tank to it. So you may only need to replace your current
line with one that goes directly to the current thru-hull in straight
line to solve your problem.

If that's not where the tank is, it shouldn't be too hard for you to
figure out where a new thru-hull has to go to give you a short straight
line from the tank to it.


The current vent tube exits
the holding tank on the aft end. The vent tubing goes aft further
about 18" to just aft of the quarter berth. Before exiting into the
lazarette it actually goes down a few inches.

That's a problem...'cuz any sag in the vent line is a place where water
or waste can pool and block the vent.

It exits into the
lazarette and makes a fairly hard turn and goes up the inside of the
hull to the thru-hull that is just below the toe rail. Thinking
through the actual routing of this tubing, I imagine there is a strong
possibility that the blockage could be at the turn into the lazarette
being that it has the combination of being the lowest point in the
line and at the same time being the location of the sharpest turn in
the line.

That's a good possibility. Water can create a barrier, but it can be
blown out...but any waste will harden and build up till makes real
"plug" in the line. You don't want ANY low spots in a holding tank vent
line.

It released the
built up pressure from the tank quickly when I took the vent tube off
the holding tank.

You're lucky it didn't spray waste all over everything including you! :)

Never disconnect a hose if you suspect a blocked vent/pressurized tank
until AFTER you've relieved any pressure by loosening the deck pumpout
cap. Have a hose at the ready...'cuz if the tank is pressurized, waste
as well as air can start to ooze out as soon as the cap is loose enough
to allow to escape. And hang on tight to the cap, 'cuz if the tank is
seriously pressurized, the pressure can spin it the rest of the way off
once it's loosened a little. Loosening the cap is also the easiest way
to confirm that vent IS blocked.

(Another clue, btw, is any hissing sound in the head as the tank is
being pumped out...that's a sign that the vent isn't supplying enough
air--that air is being pulled into the tank through any other source
available).

I also verified that the vent was clear going back
into the holding tank when I removed the vent tube. I used a
screwdriver and there was nothing there.

Check the thru-hull too...that's the most common place for a tank vent
blockage. You could even have two--one in the low spot in the hose and
one there.

Meanwhile, don't try to pump out till you have an open vent (even if
that's just the fitting on the tank with no hose attached)...'cuz a
pumpout pulling against a blocked vent can crack a tank.

Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://69.20.93.241/store/customer/p...40&cat=&page=1

Holding tank vent blocked
 

I was able to replace the vent tube. I guess my old bones were able
to fit in smaller spaces than I thought. The thru-hull wasn't
blocked. Things are much improved. I still need to replace the
pump-out tubing and the tubing coming from the head itself. There is
still some mild odor. I also need to find a solution to the low spot
in the vent tube. I'll reroute that tube in some fashion so that I
eliminate the low spot. When I do, I should also be able to remove
most of the bend in that vent line when it enters the lazarette.

I want to thank everyone for their assistance and advice.