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Forward Facing Port?
Well, I hope I don't turn into the guy who asks all the nutty questions,
but wouldn't the right sort of hatch or port facing forward in the cabin of a sailboat make it safer to be below using an autopilot? Why don't sail designers do more of this? Isn't it possible to make it seaworthy? Stephen |
Forward Facing Port?
Its done all the time ... most Bob Perry designed boats have forward
facing (and opening) portlights. In article , Stephen Trapani wrote: Well, I hope I don't turn into the guy who asks all the nutty questions, but wouldn't the right sort of hatch or port facing forward in the cabin of a sailboat make it safer to be below using an autopilot? Why don't sail designers do more of this? Isn't it possible to make it seaworthy? Stephen |
Forward Facing Port?
Because the forward-facing cabin side is usually angled upwards, opening
ports have a tendency to collect water, and are more vulnerable to letting water in if they fail. But as long as you take this into account, you can still put portlights, opening ports or even hatches there if you want. And many manufacturers do. Any port which would be weak in heavy weather, but would otherwise be quite safe and serviceable, can always have storm shutters fitted. Personally, I am of the opinion that virtually all ports should be fitted with them. -- Karin Conover-Lewis Fair and Balanced since 1959 klc dot lewis at centurytel dot net "Stephen Trapani" wrote in message ... Well, I hope I don't turn into the guy who asks all the nutty questions, but wouldn't the right sort of hatch or port facing forward in the cabin of a sailboat make it safer to be below using an autopilot? Why don't sail designers do more of this? Isn't it possible to make it seaworthy? Stephen |
Forward Facing Port?
Rich Hampel wrote:
Its done all the time ... most Bob Perry designed boats have forward facing (and opening) portlights. In article , Stephen Trapani wrote: Well, I hope I don't turn into the guy who asks all the nutty questions, but wouldn't the right sort of hatch or port facing forward in the cabin of a sailboat make it safer to be below using an autopilot? Why don't sail designers do more of this? Isn't it possible to make it seaworthy? Stephen What is unsafe about using an autopilot? What is unsafe about being below when underway whether using an autopilot or not? We've got opening ports along the side of the cabin (11 in the forward section and 7 in the aft cabin), and deck hatches of various kinds, some of which are hinged on one side and some on the other. The hinges can be reversed if desired. But when underway all those hatches are shut and dogged down, and so are all the ports. (particularly the ones in the stern if the engine is on) I consider it unsafe to have open hatches when underway. We usually have the companionways open though unless we are in really heavy seas. grandma Rosalie S/V RosalieAnn, Leonardtown, MD CSY 44 WO #156 http://home.mindspring.com/~gmbeasley/id2.html |
Forward Facing Port?
Karin Conover-Lewis wrote:
Because the forward-facing cabin side is usually angled upwards, opening ports have a tendency to collect water, and are more vulnerable to letting water in if they fail. But as long as you take this into account, you can still put portlights, opening ports or even hatches there if you want. And many manufacturers do. Any port which would be weak in heavy weather, but would otherwise be quite safe and serviceable, can always have storm shutters fitted. Personally, I am of the opinion that virtually all ports should be fitted with them. Does anyone know how much these forward facing ports, etc increase one's ability to pilot from the cabin? say with an autopilot and remote control? This would be my main reason for putting one on my '79 Hunter 33,' not to make the cabin into the helm, but to feel freer and safer to go below for longer while on autopilot. Stephen |
Forward Facing Port?
Rosalie B. wrote:
Rich Hampel wrote: Its done all the time ... most Bob Perry designed boats have forward facing (and opening) portlights. In article , Stephen Trapani wrote: Well, I hope I don't turn into the guy who asks all the nutty questions, but wouldn't the right sort of hatch or port facing forward in the cabin of a sailboat make it safer to be below using an autopilot? Why don't sail designers do more of this? Isn't it possible to make it seaworthy? Stephen What is unsafe about using an autopilot? What is unsafe about being below when underway whether using an autopilot or not? Well, if no one is at the helm, everyone below, with no forward facing port/hatch, one can't see where one is going and what is in front of them. Can't that be unsafe? Stephen |
Forward Facing Port?
Stephen Trapani wrote:
Well, if no one is at the helm, everyone below, with no forward facing port/hatch, one can't see where one is going and what is in front of them. Can't that be unsafe? You're thinking like driving a car. The answer is, at sea it wouldn't be unsafe because there's nothing to run into; conversely, you need to be able to see in all directions equally because there are things that can run over *you*. The serious singlehanders used to install heavy plexiglass domes in their coach roofs, so they could stick their heads up and see what's going on (including with the rig & sails) without opening a port or hatch to let heavy weather in. Fresh Breezes- Doug King |
Forward Facing Port?
On Sun, 06 Jun 2004 07:56:38 -0700, Stephen Trapani
wrote: Does anyone know how much these forward facing ports, etc increase one's ability to pilot from the cabin? say with an autopilot and remote control? This would be my main reason for putting one on my '79 Hunter 33,' not to make the cabin into the helm, but to feel freer and safer to go below for longer while on autopilot. Stephen It would depend a great deal on the design of the cabin. On my Yamaha 30, the front of the cabin was so low, and sloped so slightly, that you wouldn't get any useful visibility from a forward port. Often, the slope of the deck, and debris on the foredeck (anchor winch and anchor, stowed sails, etc) would severely limit your visibility. To get useful visibility, you would need a cabin that is fairly high forward, with a near-vertical forward bulkhead, and a clear foredeck with little upwards slope towards the bow. -- Peter Bennett, VE7CEI peterbb4 (at) interchange.ubc.ca new newsgroup users info : http://vancouver-webpages.com/nnq GPS and NMEA info: http://vancouver-webpages.com/peter Vancouver Power Squadron: http://vancouver.powersquadron.ca |
Forward Facing Port?
Stephen Trapani wrote:
Does anyone know how much these forward facing ports, etc increase one's ability to pilot from the cabin? say with an autopilot and remote control? This would be my main reason for putting one on my '79 Hunter 33,' not to make the cabin into the helm, but to feel freer and safer to go below for longer while on autopilot. Nowadays there are video camera arrangements that _could_ do what you want. However based on my own experiences, I would not recommend staying below "longer" as a regular practice. Even at 4 or 5 miles an hour, things seem to happen fast. BTW, do you know a Stephen Trapani in NJ? -- Good luck and good sailing. s/v Kerry Deare of Barnegat http://kerrydeare.home.comcast.net/ |
Forward Facing Port?
DSK wrote:
... at sea it wouldn't be unsafe because there's nothing to run into; conversely, you need to be able to see in all directions equally because there are things that can run over *you*. Doug, unfortunately my experience contradicts your statement to some extent. I have more than once come on deck offshore (let's say more than a few hundred miles from any coast) to find myself all too close to whales, containers, and on more than one occasion large commercial vessels. I think the original writer's concerns are well founded. Someone mentioned Chuck Paine boats, and it's true that quite a few of the Morris yachts feature a forward facing port. Of course these boats are largely custom-finished, and just about any arrangement is possible. Still most any well built port with good gaskets and good dogs will serve. Meanwhile, I'm in Rosalie's camp when it comes to closing up underway. It almost always happens that things get wet otherwise. -- Good luck and good sailing. s/v Kerry Deare of Barnegat http://kerrydeare.home.comcast.net/ |
Forward Facing Port?
Peter Bennett wrote:
On Sun, 06 Jun 2004 07:56:38 -0700, Stephen Trapani wrote: Does anyone know how much these forward facing ports, etc increase one's ability to pilot from the cabin? say with an autopilot and remote control? This would be my main reason for putting one on my '79 Hunter 33,' not to make the cabin into the helm, but to feel freer and safer to go below for longer while on autopilot. Stephen It would depend a great deal on the design of the cabin. On my Yamaha 30, the front of the cabin was so low, and sloped so slightly, that you wouldn't get any useful visibility from a forward port. Often, the slope of the deck, and debris on the foredeck (anchor winch and anchor, stowed sails, etc) would severely limit your visibility. To get useful visibility, you would need a cabin that is fairly high forward, with a near-vertical forward bulkhead, and a clear foredeck with little upwards slope towards the bow. Good point, I'd better go eyeball everything for a while. Like I won't be able to lash the heasail to the lifelines and still see through it. Stephen Stephen |
Forward Facing Port?
DSK wrote:
Stephen Trapani wrote: Well, if no one is at the helm, everyone below, with no forward facing port/hatch, one can't see where one is going and what is in front of them. Can't that be unsafe? You're thinking like driving a car. The answer is, at sea it wouldn't be unsafe because there's nothing to run into; conversely, you need to be able to see in all directions equally because there are things that can run over *you*. Ah, so I can see how a forward facing port or hatch wouldn't be of much help in a bluewater boat. But I don't think I'll ever be at sea with this boat, only in Puget Sound where there is less ability to rely on the autopilot. In high traffic areas one needs to be watching more, though there are times and places where there is nothing one couldn't see or hear coming from far away. Like even without an autopilot, I get a little nervous going below while others are at the helm, I'd like to be able to keep my eye on things better while doing things below. Am I missing something? The serious singlehanders used to install heavy plexiglass domes in their coach roofs, so they could stick their heads up and see what's going on (including with the rig & sails) without opening a port or hatch to let heavy weather in. I see a vision of me cooking a quesadia on my propane stove in the galley looking through my forward facing port light, 12"X 20"ish with a visor over the top of it to keep out most of the rain, with a custom heavy weather cover which I'll lash on it in the heaviest P.S. weather. Lunatic or visionary??? ;-) Stephen |
Forward Facing Port?
Armond Perretta wrote:
BTW, do you know a Stephen Trapani in NJ? No, but I once walked into a Mall in Clackamas, OR and saw a Pizza chain looking place called Trapani's Pizza. Stephen |
Forward Facing Port?
Armond Perretta wrote:
Doug, unfortunately my experience contradicts your statement to some extent. I should have made it plain that I was quoting theory ;) ... I have more than once come on deck offshore (let's say more than a few hundred miles from any coast) to find myself all too close to whales, containers, and on more than one occasion large commercial vessels. I think the original writer's concerns are well founded. Yes agreed, except that all-around visibility is just as important as visibility forward IMHO. And I would seriously discourage anybody from letting their autopilot keep the watch on deck in any but the absolute worst weather. It is far too easy to get distracted and/or lose track of time, and not keep lookout when one is down below. When conditions are so bad that it is actively dangerous to stay on deck, then you'll have worse problems anyway. And it might not be so safe down below! Fresh Breezes- Doug King |
Forward Facing Port?
Stephen Trapani wrote:
I see a vision of me cooking a quesadia on my propane stove in the galley looking through my forward facing port light, 12"X 20"ish with a visor over the top of it to keep out most of the rain, with a custom heavy weather cover which I'll lash on it in the heaviest P.S. weather. Lunatic or visionary??? ;-) Visionary, definitely. But you should have gotten a trawler. Like this one, for example http://community.webshots.com/album/63279185YQtgSA Fresh Breezes- Doug King |
Forward Facing Port?
Not at all, you need to come up on deck periodically and scan the total
horizon. The only thing that I could think of is a plastic 'navigators' bubble that would give 360 deg. visability ... would be any good. In article , Stephen Trapani wrote: Karin Conover-Lewis wrote: Because the forward-facing cabin side is usually angled upwards, opening ports have a tendency to collect water, and are more vulnerable to letting water in if they fail. But as long as you take this into account, you can still put portlights, opening ports or even hatches there if you want. And many manufacturers do. Any port which would be weak in heavy weather, but would otherwise be quite safe and serviceable, can always have storm shutters fitted. Personally, I am of the opinion that virtually all ports should be fitted with them. Does anyone know how much these forward facing ports, etc increase one's ability to pilot from the cabin? say with an autopilot and remote control? This would be my main reason for putting one on my '79 Hunter 33,' not to make the cabin into the helm, but to feel freer and safer to go below for longer while on autopilot. Stephen |
Forward Facing Port?
Well, different ports will offer differing visibility. Our CT-41 was a
pilothouse model, with an inside helm. Naturally there were substantial ports on both sides as well as forward, plus a hatch directly above the helm station. Visibility from there was excellent except for astern. The stateroom, forward, had smaller opening ports on the forward bulkhead, but virtually no visibility from them. If you can place ports or deadlights in a way that will increase your visibility from below, while maintaining seaworthiness, I would be highly in favour of it. Because there are just times when going below is necessary, but you still want to see what's going on around you. -- Karin Conover-Lewis Fair and Balanced since 1959 klc dot lewis at centurytel dot net "Stephen Trapani" wrote in message ... Karin Conover-Lewis wrote: Because the forward-facing cabin side is usually angled upwards, opening ports have a tendency to collect water, and are more vulnerable to letting water in if they fail. But as long as you take this into account, you can still put portlights, opening ports or even hatches there if you want. And many manufacturers do. Any port which would be weak in heavy weather, but would otherwise be quite safe and serviceable, can always have storm shutters fitted. Personally, I am of the opinion that virtually all ports should be fitted with them. Does anyone know how much these forward facing ports, etc increase one's ability to pilot from the cabin? say with an autopilot and remote control? This would be my main reason for putting one on my '79 Hunter 33,' not to make the cabin into the helm, but to feel freer and safer to go below for longer while on autopilot. Stephen |
Forward Facing Port?
Stephen Trapani wrote:
Armond Perretta wrote: BTW, do you know a Stephen Trapani in NJ? No, but I once walked into a Mall in Clackamas, OR and saw a Pizza chain looking place called Trapani's Pizza. True Facts Department: My wife and I just got back from a swimming pool party where I bumped into a neighbor named Stephen J. Trapani. I didn't ask if he was in the pizza trade. -- Good luck and good sailing. s/v Kerry Deare of Barnegat http://kerrydeare.home.comcast.net/ |
Forward Facing Port?
Stephen Trapani wrote:
Rosalie B. wrote: In article , Stephen Trapani wrote: Well, I hope I don't turn into the guy who asks all the nutty questions, but wouldn't the right sort of hatch or port facing forward in the cabin of a sailboat make it safer to be below using an autopilot? Why don't sail designers do more of this? Isn't it possible to make it seaworthy? What is unsafe about using an autopilot? What is unsafe about being below when underway whether using an autopilot or not? Well, if no one is at the helm, everyone below, with no forward facing port/hatch, one can't see where one is going and what is in front of them. Can't that be unsafe? Unless you are single handing somewhere offshore, someone is always at the helm, whether with autopilot or not. All the autopilot does is keep you from having to have your hands on the wheel all the time. For the two of us, someone is always in the cockpit keeping the watch. If one of us has to go below - the other one is in the cockpit. I'd suggest that you either need a center cockpit boat with a bimini and enclosure around the cockpit like ours in which we do most of our living in the cockpit going below only to sleep when we are off watch (or to use the facilities or cook which doesn't take long), or probably better for your purposes - a pilothouse. The other possibility is to have radar where the screen swivels down into the cabin or out into the cockpit. Probably would be useful to have in Puget Sound anyway. grandma Rosalie |
Forward Facing Port?
Karin Conover-Lewis wrote:
Well, different ports will offer differing visibility. Our CT-41 was a pilothouse model, with an inside helm. Naturally there were substantial ports on both sides as well as forward, plus a hatch directly above the helm station. Visibility from there was excellent except for astern. The stateroom, forward, had smaller opening ports on the forward bulkhead, but virtually no visibility from them. If you can place ports or deadlights in a way that will increase your visibility from below, while maintaining seaworthiness, I would be highly in favour of it. Because there are just times when going below is necessary, but you still want to see what's going on around you. That's what I've been thinking! Stephen |
Forward Facing Port?
DSK wrote:
Armond Perretta wrote: Doug, unfortunately my experience contradicts your statement to some extent. I should have made it plain that I was quoting theory ;) ... I have more than once come on deck offshore (let's say more than a few hundred miles from any coast) to find myself all too close to whales, containers, and on more than one occasion large commercial vessels. I think the original writer's concerns are well founded. Yes agreed, except that all-around visibility is just as important as visibility forward IMHO. And I would seriously discourage anybody from letting their autopilot keep the watch on deck in any but the absolute worst weather. It is far too easy to get distracted and/or lose track of time, and not keep lookout when one is down below. When conditions are so bad that it is actively dangerous to stay on deck, then you'll have worse problems anyway. And it might not be so safe down below! I look around down below in my H33' and I can see through all the hatches in all directions 180 and forward except from about 2 Oclock to 10 oclock, thus my question about the forward port. You get those last four degrees forward with a forward facing port and then you've got 180 to the sides and in front, all you're missing is the astern 180. Stephen |
Forward Facing Port?
DSK wrote:
Stephen Trapani wrote: I see a vision of me cooking a quesadia on my propane stove in the galley looking through my forward facing port light, 12"X 20"ish with a visor over the top of it to keep out most of the rain, with a custom heavy weather cover which I'll lash on it in the heaviest P.S. weather. Lunatic or visionary??? ;-) Visionary, definitely. But you should have gotten a trawler. Like this one, for example http://community.webshots.com/album/63279185YQtgSA Shoot man, trawler was right up there with 30+ sloop on my list of boats under 10K as my first boat. My kids voted for the trawler, for sure. There was this raunchy trawler in North Vancouver I had my eye on... But hey, I'm in love with the Moonraker. I like the sailing deal. Last weekend me and my 9yo son took off by motor from Boston Harbor. A guy there had helped us rig up my only workable sail, a 150 genoa with a missing clew ring reefed to a reef point on the jib on the only working clew. I turned off the Yanmar and sailed around the bend at 2 knots. It was a thing of beauty. I love the idea of free energy. Probably my next boat will be a trawler, or um, a bigger sailing cruiser. Stephen |
Forward Facing Port?
Rosalie B. wrote:
Stephen Trapani wrote: Rosalie B. wrote: In article , Stephen Trapani wrote: Well, I hope I don't turn into the guy who asks all the nutty questions, but wouldn't the right sort of hatch or port facing forward in the cabin of a sailboat make it safer to be below using an autopilot? Why don't sail designers do more of this? Isn't it possible to make it seaworthy? What is unsafe about using an autopilot? What is unsafe about being below when underway whether using an autopilot or not? Well, if no one is at the helm, everyone below, with no forward facing port/hatch, one can't see where one is going and what is in front of them. Can't that be unsafe? Unless you are single handing somewhere offshore, someone is always at the helm, whether with autopilot or not. All the autopilot does is keep you from having to have your hands on the wheel all the time. For the two of us, someone is always in the cockpit keeping the watch. If one of us has to go below - the other one is in the cockpit. I'd suggest that you either need a center cockpit boat with a bimini and enclosure around the cockpit like ours in which we do most of our living in the cockpit going below only to sleep when we are off watch (or to use the facilities or cook which doesn't take long), or probably better for your purposes - a pilothouse. The other possibility is to have radar where the screen swivels down into the cabin or out into the cockpit. Probably would be useful to have in Puget Sound anyway. Hey thanks for the advice. I really would like a good Bimini, dodger setup, somehow, to stay out of the rain. The aft stay is right above my head at the helm, so I have my doubts. On the other hand I've spent *much* time in foul weather gear, both on boats and ashore, and that doesn't bother me much, I don't know. -So many decisions! :) Until my finances take a bigger turn for the better, a radar, Bimini and such seem like fond dreams for a distant future. My sailing buddy is sewing his own canvas stuff, maybe I should have him give me lessons. sigh Stephen |
Forward Facing Port?
I'm gonna disagree with you slightly on this one Rosalie. I may be just
justifying how my wife and I sail, but while there is always one of us on watch, that doesn't neccessarily mean that the on watch person never goes below. When we're cruising along, the vane in control, no other boat in sight and hasn't been for who know how long, it's not at all unusual for the one of on watch to go below to use the head, make a sandwich or cup of tea, etc. and I see no problem with this. We do use a kitchen timer set to "ding" at us every ten minutes to remind us to stick our head up and scan the horizon and such. In fact, we usually use the kitchen timer anytime there's just one of us up (at least I do), as I'm usually reading or so lost in thought, that without the reminder, the horizon would never get checked. Fair winds - Dan Rosalie B. wrote: Stephen Trapani wrote: Rosalie B. wrote: In article , Stephen Trapani wrote: Well, I hope I don't turn into the guy who asks all the nutty questions, but wouldn't the right sort of hatch or port facing forward in the cabin of a sailboat make it safer to be below using an autopilot? Why don't sail designers do more of this? Isn't it possible to make it seaworthy? What is unsafe about using an autopilot? What is unsafe about being below when underway whether using an autopilot or not? Well, if no one is at the helm, everyone below, with no forward facing port/hatch, one can't see where one is going and what is in front of them. Can't that be unsafe? Unless you are single handing somewhere offshore, someone is always at the helm, whether with autopilot or not. All the autopilot does is keep you from having to have your hands on the wheel all the time. For the two of us, someone is always in the cockpit keeping the watch. If one of us has to go below - the other one is in the cockpit. I'd suggest that you either need a center cockpit boat with a bimini and enclosure around the cockpit like ours in which we do most of our living in the cockpit going below only to sleep when we are off watch (or to use the facilities or cook which doesn't take long), or probably better for your purposes - a pilothouse. The other possibility is to have radar where the screen swivels down into the cabin or out into the cockpit. Probably would be useful to have in Puget Sound anyway. grandma Rosalie -- Dan Best - (707) 431-1662, Healdsburg, CA 95448 B-2/75 1977-1979 Tayana 37 #192, "Tricia Jean" http://rangerbest.home.comcast.net/TriciaJean.JPG |
Forward Facing Port?
Dan Best wrote:
I'm gonna disagree with you slightly on this one Rosalie. I may be just justifying how my wife and I sail, but while there is always one of us on watch, that doesn't neccessarily mean that the on watch person never goes below. When we're cruising along, the vane in control, no other boat in sight and hasn't been for who know how long, it's not at all unusual for the one of on watch to go below to use the head, make a sandwich or cup of tea, etc. and I see no problem with this. We do use AFAI am concerned this is the equivalent of single handing off shore. We will go offshore, but not that far. But if he's going to sail in Puget Sound, I don't think this is a viable option. a kitchen timer set to "ding" at us every ten minutes to remind us to stick our head up and scan the horizon and such. In fact, we usually use the kitchen timer anytime there's just one of us up (at least I do), as I'm usually reading or so lost in thought, that without the reminder, the horizon would never get checked. Fair winds - Dan Rosalie B. wrote: Stephen Trapani wrote: Rosalie B. wrote: In article , Stephen Trapani wrote: Well, I hope I don't turn into the guy who asks all the nutty questions, but wouldn't the right sort of hatch or port facing forward in the cabin of a sailboat make it safer to be below using an autopilot? Why don't sail designers do more of this? Isn't it possible to make it seaworthy? What is unsafe about using an autopilot? What is unsafe about being below when underway whether using an autopilot or not? Well, if no one is at the helm, everyone below, with no forward facing port/hatch, one can't see where one is going and what is in front of them. Can't that be unsafe? Unless you are single handing somewhere offshore, someone is always at the helm, whether with autopilot or not. All the autopilot does is keep you from having to have your hands on the wheel all the time. For the two of us, someone is always in the cockpit keeping the watch. If one of us has to go below - the other one is in the cockpit. I'd suggest that you either need a center cockpit boat with a bimini and enclosure around the cockpit like ours in which we do most of our living in the cockpit going below only to sleep when we are off watch (or to use the facilities or cook which doesn't take long), or probably better for your purposes - a pilothouse. The other possibility is to have radar where the screen swivels down into the cabin or out into the cockpit. Probably would be useful to have in Puget Sound anyway. grandma Rosalie grandma Rosalie |
Forward Facing Port?
Oops, Sorry Rosalie,
I think I misunderstood what you were saying earlier. When you said "Unless you are single handing somewhere offshore, someone is always at the helm, whether with autopilot or not...", I thought you were refering to the extended time without checking that happens while single handers are forced to sleep. An entirely different thing in my mind. I personaly am mildly critical of long distance single handers, but only VERY mildly. First, because I've never heard of a single hander hitting anything and hurting anyone except themselves (and that's their own business), 2nd, because it was probably Robin Grahams articles in National Geographic back when I was a teen that originally put the cruising bug under my skin, and finally because if I wasn't lucky enough to be married to someone who enjoys sailing and cruising almost as much as I do, there's no doubt in my mind that I'd be out there single handing myself. Take care - Dan Rosalie B. wrote: Dan Best wrote: I'm gonna disagree with you slightly on this one Rosalie. I may be just justifying how my wife and I sail, but while there is always one of us on watch, that doesn't neccessarily mean that the on watch person never goes below. When we're cruising along, the vane in control, no other boat in sight and hasn't been for who know how long, it's not at all unusual for the one of on watch to go below to use the head, make a sandwich or cup of tea, etc. and I see no problem with this. We do use AFAI am concerned this is the equivalent of single handing off shore. We will go offshore, but not that far. But if he's going to sail in Puget Sound, I don't think this is a viable option. a kitchen timer set to "ding" at us every ten minutes to remind us to stick our head up and scan the horizon and such. In fact, we usually use the kitchen timer anytime there's just one of us up (at least I do), as I'm usually reading or so lost in thought, that without the reminder, the horizon would never get checked. Fair winds - Dan Rosalie B. wrote: Stephen Trapani wrote: Rosalie B. wrote: In article , Stephen Trapani wrote: Well, I hope I don't turn into the guy who asks all the nutty questions, but wouldn't the right sort of hatch or port facing forward in the cabin of a sailboat make it safer to be below using an autopilot? Why don't sail designers do more of this? Isn't it possible to make it seaworthy? What is unsafe about using an autopilot? What is unsafe about being below when underway whether using an autopilot or not? Well, if no one is at the helm, everyone below, with no forward facing port/hatch, one can't see where one is going and what is in front of them. Can't that be unsafe? Unless you are single handing somewhere offshore, someone is always at the helm, whether with autopilot or not. All the autopilot does is keep you from having to have your hands on the wheel all the time. For the two of us, someone is always in the cockpit keeping the watch. If one of us has to go below - the other one is in the cockpit. I'd suggest that you either need a center cockpit boat with a bimini and enclosure around the cockpit like ours in which we do most of our living in the cockpit going below only to sleep when we are off watch (or to use the facilities or cook which doesn't take long), or probably better for your purposes - a pilothouse. The other possibility is to have radar where the screen swivels down into the cabin or out into the cockpit. Probably would be useful to have in Puget Sound anyway. grandma Rosalie grandma Rosalie -- Dan Best - (707) 431-1662, Healdsburg, CA 95448 B-2/75 1977-1979 Tayana 37 #192, "Tricia Jean" http://rangerbest.home.comcast.net/TriciaJean.JPG |
Forward Facing Port?
Here's a link to an appeal court's ruling that I found interesting because it is
a rare case where a boat was found 100% at fault, rather than shared blame. The sailboat, Coyote, is the vessel Mike Plant disappeared from when the keel fell off. His fiancée inherited the boat and chartered it to Dave Scully, who bumped it into a fishing boat on a qualifying run. Scully was found 100% at fault, for not having a lookout or proper lights. http://www.law.emory.edu/4circuit/dec97/961209.p.html I also have mixed feelings about single hand racers. However, during actual events there doesn't seem to be much of a problem. On the other hand, I've a number of close calls where a sport fisherman was going at 30 knots towards the same waypoint without anyone on the bridge. "Dan Best" wrote in message news:MhSwc.62268$Ly.45902@attbi_s01... Oops, Sorry Rosalie, I think I misunderstood what you were saying earlier. When you said "Unless you are single handing somewhere offshore, someone is always at the helm, whether with autopilot or not...", I thought you were refering to the extended time without checking that happens while single handers are forced to sleep. An entirely different thing in my mind. I personaly am mildly critical of long distance single handers, but only VERY mildly. First, because I've never heard of a single hander hitting anything and hurting anyone except themselves (and that's their own business), 2nd, because it was probably Robin Grahams articles in National Geographic back when I was a teen that originally put the cruising bug under my skin, and finally because if I wasn't lucky enough to be married to someone who enjoys sailing and cruising almost as much as I do, there's no doubt in my mind that I'd be out there single handing myself. Take care - Dan Rosalie B. wrote: Dan Best wrote: I'm gonna disagree with you slightly on this one Rosalie. I may be just justifying how my wife and I sail, but while there is always one of us on watch, that doesn't neccessarily mean that the on watch person never goes below. When we're cruising along, the vane in control, no other boat in sight and hasn't been for who know how long, it's not at all unusual for the one of on watch to go below to use the head, make a sandwich or cup of tea, etc. and I see no problem with this. We do use AFAI am concerned this is the equivalent of single handing off shore. We will go offshore, but not that far. But if he's going to sail in Puget Sound, I don't think this is a viable option. a kitchen timer set to "ding" at us every ten minutes to remind us to stick our head up and scan the horizon and such. In fact, we usually use the kitchen timer anytime there's just one of us up (at least I do), as I'm usually reading or so lost in thought, that without the reminder, the horizon would never get checked. Fair winds - Dan Rosalie B. wrote: Stephen Trapani wrote: Rosalie B. wrote: In article , Stephen Trapani wrote: Well, I hope I don't turn into the guy who asks all the nutty questions, but wouldn't the right sort of hatch or port facing forward in the cabin of a sailboat make it safer to be below using an autopilot? Why don't sail designers do more of this? Isn't it possible to make it seaworthy? What is unsafe about using an autopilot? What is unsafe about being below when underway whether using an autopilot or not? Well, if no one is at the helm, everyone below, with no forward facing port/hatch, one can't see where one is going and what is in front of them. Can't that be unsafe? Unless you are single handing somewhere offshore, someone is always at the helm, whether with autopilot or not. All the autopilot does is keep you from having to have your hands on the wheel all the time. For the two of us, someone is always in the cockpit keeping the watch. If one of us has to go below - the other one is in the cockpit. I'd suggest that you either need a center cockpit boat with a bimini and enclosure around the cockpit like ours in which we do most of our living in the cockpit going below only to sleep when we are off watch (or to use the facilities or cook which doesn't take long), or probably better for your purposes - a pilothouse. The other possibility is to have radar where the screen swivels down into the cabin or out into the cockpit. Probably would be useful to have in Puget Sound anyway. grandma Rosalie grandma Rosalie -- Dan Best - (707) 431-1662, Healdsburg, CA 95448 B-2/75 1977-1979 Tayana 37 #192, "Tricia Jean" http://rangerbest.home.comcast.net/TriciaJean.JPG |
Forward Facing Port?
"Jeff Morris" wrote:
Here's a link to an appeal court's ruling that I found interesting because it is a rare case where a boat was found 100% at fault, rather than shared blame. The sailboat, Coyote, is the vessel Mike Plant disappeared from when the keel fell off. His fiancée inherited the boat and chartered it to Dave Scully, who bumped it into a fishing boat on a qualifying run. Scully was found 100% at fault, for not having a lookout or proper lights. http://www.law.emory.edu/4circuit/dec97/961209.p.html I also have mixed feelings about single hand racers. However, during actual events there doesn't seem to be much of a problem. On the other hand, I've a number of close calls where a sport fisherman was going at 30 knots towards the same waypoint without anyone on the bridge. Yes - or they are talking on a cell phone and not paying attention. "Dan Best" wrote in message news:MhSwc.62268$Ly.45902@attbi_s01... Oops, Sorry Rosalie, I think I misunderstood what you were saying earlier. When you said "Unless you are single handing somewhere offshore, someone is always at the helm, whether with autopilot or not...", I thought you were refering to the extended time without checking that happens while single handers are forced to sleep. An entirely different thing in my mind. Well I didn't make that very clear. See incident below. I personaly am mildly critical of long distance single handers, but only VERY mildly. First, because I've never heard of a single hander hitting anything and hurting anyone except themselves (and that's their own business), 2nd, because it was probably Robin Grahams articles in National Geographic back when I was a teen that originally put the cruising bug under my skin, and finally because if I wasn't lucky enough to be married to someone who enjoys sailing and cruising almost as much as I do, there's no doubt in my mind that I'd be out there single handing myself. I know folks like that too Take care - Dan Rosalie B. wrote: Dan Best wrote: I'm gonna disagree with you slightly on this one Rosalie. I may be just justifying how my wife and I sail, but while there is always one of us on watch, that doesn't neccessarily mean that the on watch person never goes below. When we're cruising along, the vane in control, no other boat in sight and hasn't been for who know how long, it's not at all unusual for the one of on watch to go below to use the head, make a sandwich or cup of tea, etc. and I see no problem with this. We do use I was distracted when I read this by the memories of an incident that happened near here which was reported in both the local newspaper and the SSCA Bulletin. A couple - who had sailed extensively (they were SSCA Commanders) but who were going home to New England to sell their boat because the man of the couple had a fatal disease of some type - were on a their Valiant 40 (IIRC) and were sailing or motor sailing up the Chesapeake at night. I think it was spring. [Note - I don't know why they were doing this - it seems crazy to me. There's crab pots if nothing else. And it would be perfectly easy to anchor someplace for the night] He was at the helm - she was below asleep. He saw something on the radar that he didn't understand, and went below. The newspaper account said to get a cup of coffee and what she wrote for SSCA said to check the chart. In any case, the boat went between a tug and a tow and sank in less than 15 minutes. They barely escaped into a boat with their lives - they lost everything they owned. They were picked up very quickly (within about half an hour) by the Calvert Co. volunteer fire department boat (which is the most astonishing part of it if you know the Bay coast of Calvert Co.) She didn't seem grateful enough for that IMHO. AFAI am concerned this is the equivalent of single handing off shore. We will go offshore, but not that far. But if he's going to sail in Puget Sound, I don't think this is a viable option. a kitchen timer set to "ding" at us every ten minutes to remind us to stick our head up and scan the horizon and such. In fact, we usually use the kitchen timer anytime there's just one of us up (at least I do), as I'm usually reading or so lost in thought, that without the reminder, the horizon would never get checked. Fair winds - Dan Rosalie B. wrote: Stephen Trapani wrote: Rosalie B. wrote: In article , Stephen Trapani wrote: Well, I hope I don't turn into the guy who asks all the nutty questions, but wouldn't the right sort of hatch or port facing forward in the cabin of a sailboat make it safer to be below using an autopilot? Why don't sail designers do more of this? Isn't it possible to make it seaworthy? What is unsafe about using an autopilot? What is unsafe about being below when underway whether using an autopilot or not? Well, if no one is at the helm, everyone below, with no forward facing port/hatch, one can't see where one is going and what is in front of them. Can't that be unsafe? Unless you are single handing somewhere offshore, someone is always at the helm, whether with autopilot or not. All the autopilot does is keep you from having to have your hands on the wheel all the time. For the two of us, someone is always in the cockpit keeping the watch. If one of us has to go below - the other one is in the cockpit. I'd suggest that you either need a center cockpit boat with a bimini and enclosure around the cockpit like ours in which we do most of our living in the cockpit going below only to sleep when we are off watch (or to use the facilities or cook which doesn't take long), or probably better for your purposes - a pilothouse. The other possibility is to have radar where the screen swivels down into the cabin or out into the cockpit. Probably would be useful to have in Puget Sound anyway. grandma Rosalie grandma Rosalie -- Dan Best - (707) 431-1662, Healdsburg, CA 95448 B-2/75 1977-1979 Tayana 37 #192, "Tricia Jean" http://rangerbest.home.comcast.net/TriciaJean.JPG grandma Rosalie |
Forward Facing Port?
The only thing that I could think of is a plastic 'navigators' bubble
that would give 360 deg. visability Speaking of which, where could one be found? |
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