hpeer wrote:
Wilbur Hubbard wrote:
http://www.dailytech.com/Article.aspx?newsid=13834

Sea ice at same levels as 1979. Another nail in the coffin of global
warming alarmists and kook believers.

Wilbur Hubbard


Wilbur,

Interesting article. It seems we have the battle of the institutes
going on here.

It seems your report is coming from the University of Illinois Arctic
Climate Research Center.

But..............

If you go to the National Snow and Ice Data Center you get a very
different picture.

They report that the ice growth period has ended with the growth being
"much slower, and should continue to slow"

They have an Arctic Ice Sea Extent graphic that compares the current ice
cover to both the 1979 to 2000 average and the 2006/7 extent. This
graph is updated daily. It shows that the ice extent is far below the
19792-2000 average and that it matches to 2006/7 (record low) minimum.

Then there is the additional concern that, since last years record low,
this cover is predominantly new ice (thin - low volume), not old
multi-year ice (thick - high volume.) Consequently the prediction is
that this summer will see an early breakup and further deterioration of
the overall ice cover.

Perhaps you would like to take a look for yourself at:

www.nsidc.org/articseaicenews/

Or, if you prefer, you could look to the Canadian ice site, 30 day
outlook which says (in part)

The freeze up pattern in the Gulf of Boothia region is very unusual this
year as new ice has barely started to form whereas one would typically
expect the area to be totally covered with new ice by now.

http://ice-glaces.ec.ge.ca

THEN I WENT TO THE UNIVERSITY OF ILLINOIS ARCTIC CLIMATE RESEARCH CENTER
SITE (ARCTIC.ATMOS.UIUC.EDU) AND FOUND THIS AT THE TOP OF THEIR PAGE.

Arctic temperature trend
Recent observed surface air temperature changes over the Arctic region
are the largest in the world. Winter (DJF) rates of warming exceed 4
degrees C. over portions of the Arctic land areas (shown left). We
provide Arctic temperature trends and changes of other primary surface
variables (e.g., sea level pressure, precipitation, sea ice cover)
archived in this climate summary, portions of which are published each
year in the Bulletin of the American Meteorological Society.

Sea ice extent averaged over the Northern Hemisphere has decreased
correspondingly over the past 50 years (shown right). The largest change
has been observed in the summer months with decreases exceeding 30%.
Decreases observed in winter are more modest. We maintain this updated
archive of sea ice concentrations and extents at the University of
Illinois Department of Atmospheric Sciences.

Cheers
I think that what you are seeing is what the Goreilites ignore, that
there is not a consensus on global warming. Climate studies are in
their infancy, and the millions of variables involved in global weather
are not understood. When computer models take a few of the know
variable and try to predict they show trends but not necessarily the
correct trend, because all of the variables and their strength are not
included.

If you take any set of random data, and run it through the correct
program, you may find trends, but because the data is random do not exist.

There are many good sites that show the current research papers on the
climate with out gorealizing the results.

Keith nuttle wrote:
Keith nuttle wrote:
hpeer wrote:
Wilbur Hubbard wrote:
http://www.dailytech.com/Article.aspx?newsid=13834

Sea ice at same levels as 1979. Another nail in the coffin of global
warming alarmists and kook believers.

Wilbur Hubbard


Wilbur,

Interesting article. It seems we have the battle of the institutes
going on here.

It seems your report is coming from the University of Illinois Arctic
Climate Research Center.

But..............

If you go to the National Snow and Ice Data Center you get a very
different picture.

They report that the ice growth period has ended with the growth being
"much slower, and should continue to slow"

They have an Arctic Ice Sea Extent graphic that compares the current
ice cover to both the 1979 to 2000 average and the 2006/7 extent.
This graph is updated daily. It shows that the ice extent is far
below the 19792-2000 average and that it matches to 2006/7 (record
low) minimum.

Then there is the additional concern that, since last years record
low, this cover is predominantly new ice (thin - low volume), not old
multi-year ice (thick - high volume.) Consequently the prediction is
that this summer will see an early breakup and further deterioration
of the overall ice cover.

Perhaps you would like to take a look for yourself at:

www.nsidc.org/articseaicenews/

Or, if you prefer, you could look to the Canadian ice site, 30 day
outlook which says (in part)

The freeze up pattern in the Gulf of Boothia region is very unusual
this year as new ice has barely started to form whereas one would
typically expect the area to be totally covered with new ice by now.

http://ice-glaces.ec.ge.ca

THEN I WENT TO THE UNIVERSITY OF ILLINOIS ARCTIC CLIMATE RESEARCH
CENTER SITE (ARCTIC.ATMOS.UIUC.EDU) AND FOUND THIS AT THE TOP OF
THEIR PAGE.

Arctic temperature trend
Recent observed surface air temperature changes over the Arctic region
are the largest in the world. Winter (DJF) rates of warming exceed 4
degrees C. over portions of the Arctic land areas (shown left). We
provide Arctic temperature trends and changes of other primary surface
variables (e.g., sea level pressure, precipitation, sea ice cover)
archived in this climate summary, portions of which are published each
year in the Bulletin of the American Meteorological Society.

Sea ice extent averaged over the Northern Hemisphere has decreased
correspondingly over the past 50 years (shown right). The largest
change has been observed in the summer months with decreases exceeding
30%. Decreases observed in winter are more modest. We maintain this
updated archive of sea ice concentrations and extents at the
University of Illinois Department of Atmospheric Sciences.

Cheers
I think that what you are seeing is what the Goreilites ignore, that
there is not a consensus on global warming. Climate studies are in
their infancy, and the millions of variables involved in global weather
are not understood. When computer models take a few of the know
variable and try to predict they show trends but not necessarily the
correct trend, because all of the variables and their strength are not
included.

If you take any set of random data, and run it through the correct
program, you may find trends, but because the data is random do not exist.

There are many good sites that show the current research papers on the
climate with out gorealizing the results.



hpeer wrote:
Wilbur Hubbard wrote:
http://www.dailytech.com/Article.aspx?newsid=13834

Sea ice at same levels as 1979. Another nail in the coffin of global
warming alarmists and kook believers.

Wilbur Hubbard


Wilbur,

Interesting article. It seems we have the battle of the institutes
going on here.

It seems your report is coming from the University of Illinois Arctic
Climate Research Center.

But..............

If you go to the National Snow and Ice Data Center you get a very
different picture.

They report that the ice growth period has ended with the growth being
"much slower, and should continue to slow"

They have an Arctic Ice Sea Extent graphic that compares the current
ice cover to both the 1979 to 2000 average and the 2006/7 extent.
This graph is updated daily. It shows that the ice extent is far
below the 19792-2000 average and that it matches to 2006/7 (record
low) minimum.

Then there is the additional concern that, since last years record
low, this cover is predominantly new ice (thin - low volume), not old
multi-year ice (thick - high volume.) Consequently the prediction is
that this summer will see an early breakup and further deterioration
of the overall ice cover.

Perhaps you would like to take a look for yourself at:

www.nsidc.org/articseaicenews/

Or, if you prefer, you could look to the Canadian ice site, 30 day
outlook which says (in part)

The freeze up pattern in the Gulf of Boothia region is very unusual
this year as new ice has barely started to form whereas one would
typically expect the area to be totally covered with new ice by now.

http://ice-glaces.ec.ge.ca

THEN I WENT TO THE UNIVERSITY OF ILLINOIS ARCTIC CLIMATE RESEARCH
CENTER SITE (ARCTIC.ATMOS.UIUC.EDU) AND FOUND THIS AT THE TOP OF
THEIR PAGE.

Arctic temperature trend
Recent observed surface air temperature changes over the Arctic region
are the largest in the world. Winter (DJF) rates of warming exceed 4
degrees C. over portions of the Arctic land areas (shown left). We
provide Arctic temperature trends and changes of other primary surface
variables (e.g., sea level pressure, precipitation, sea ice cover)
archived in this climate summary, portions of which are published each
year in the Bulletin of the American Meteorological Society.

Sea ice extent averaged over the Northern Hemisphere has decreased
correspondingly over the past 50 years (shown right). The largest
change has been observed in the summer months with decreases exceeding
30%. Decreases observed in winter are more modest. We maintain this
updated archive of sea ice concentrations and extents at the
University of Illinois Department of Atmospheric Sciences.

Cheers
I think that what you are seeing is what the Goreilites ignore, that
there is not a consensus on global warming. Climate studies are in
their infancy, and the millions of variables involved in global weather
are not understood. When computer models take a few of the know
variable and try to predict they show trends but not necessarily the
correct trend, because all of the variables and their strength are not
included.

If you take any set of random data, and run it through the correct
program, you may find trends, but because the data is random do not exist.

There are many good sites that show the current research papers on the
climate with out gorealizing the results.



To hell with Gore. Never saw the movie and don't care to. Gore is
trying to sensationalize it and goad people into action. He is only for
the converted. He is NOT a source authoritative info.

Still, my take on this is that serious researchers converge on there
being significant global warming. The conversation has moved from "if"
to "how sever."

I have been following this topic on another site for some time. There
has been a LOT of rancor over whether or not GW is happening. For what
it is worth I have been convinced that it is an issue of concern.

Take a look at the sites I listed above. They are mainstream government
programs.

"hpeer" wrote in message
m...
To hell with Gore. Never saw the movie and don't care to. Gore is trying
to sensationalize it and goad people into action. He is only for the
converted. He is NOT a source authoritative info.

Still, my take on this is that serious researchers converge on there
being significant global warming. The conversation has moved from "if" to
"how sever."

I have been following this topic on another site for some time. There has
been a LOT of rancor over whether or not GW is happening. For what it is
worth I have been convinced that it is an issue of concern.

Take a look at the sites I listed above. They are mainstream government
programs.

The Earth has been warming for the last 12,000 years, give or take. Had it
not been, we wouldn't be here but the skiing would be fantastic.

The only constant in the Earth's climate is change. Always has been, always
will be.

"KLC Lewis" wrote in message
et...

"hpeer" wrote in message
m...
To hell with Gore. Never saw the movie and don't care to. Gore is
trying to sensationalize it and goad people into action. He is only for
the converted. He is NOT a source authoritative info.

Still, my take on this is that serious researchers converge on there
being significant global warming. The conversation has moved from "if"
to "how sever."

I have been following this topic on another site for some time. There
has been a LOT of rancor over whether or not GW is happening. For what
it is worth I have been convinced that it is an issue of concern.

Take a look at the sites I listed above. They are mainstream government
programs.

The Earth has been warming for the last 12,000 years, give or take. Had it
not been, we wouldn't be here but the skiing would be fantastic.

The only constant in the Earth's climate is change. Always has been,
always will be.



Big difference between normal trends and those that have taken place since
the Industrial Rev. era. The science is pretty conclusive at this point that
we've got a serious problem. It's not just about warming. There has and will
continue to be much larger fluctuations in conditions, among other things.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
easolutions...
"KLC Lewis" wrote in message
et...

"hpeer" wrote in message
m...
To hell with Gore. Never saw the movie and don't care to. Gore is
trying to sensationalize it and goad people into action. He is only for
the converted. He is NOT a source authoritative info.

Still, my take on this is that serious researchers converge on there
being significant global warming. The conversation has moved from "if"
to "how sever."

I have been following this topic on another site for some time. There
has been a LOT of rancor over whether or not GW is happening. For what
it is worth I have been convinced that it is an issue of concern.

Take a look at the sites I listed above. They are mainstream government
programs.

The Earth has been warming for the last 12,000 years, give or take. Had
it not been, we wouldn't be here but the skiing would be fantastic.

The only constant in the Earth's climate is change. Always has been,
always will be.



Big difference between normal trends and those that have taken place since
the Industrial Rev. era. The science is pretty conclusive at this point
that we've got a serious problem. It's not just about warming. There has
and will continue to be much larger fluctuations in conditions, among
other things.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com




Ya, but when you plug the last hundred years into the trendline for the past
several thousand years, it hardly makes a blip.

"KLC Lewis" wrote in message
et...

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
easolutions...
"KLC Lewis" wrote in message
et...

"hpeer" wrote in message
m...
To hell with Gore. Never saw the movie and don't care to. Gore is
trying to sensationalize it and goad people into action. He is only
for the converted. He is NOT a source authoritative info.

Still, my take on this is that serious researchers converge on there
being significant global warming. The conversation has moved from "if"
to "how sever."

I have been following this topic on another site for some time. There
has been a LOT of rancor over whether or not GW is happening. For what
it is worth I have been convinced that it is an issue of concern.

Take a look at the sites I listed above. They are mainstream
government
programs.

The Earth has been warming for the last 12,000 years, give or take. Had
it not been, we wouldn't be here but the skiing would be fantastic.

The only constant in the Earth's climate is change. Always has been,
always will be.



Big difference between normal trends and those that have taken place
since the Industrial Rev. era. The science is pretty conclusive at this
point that we've got a serious problem. It's not just about warming.
There has and will continue to be much larger fluctuations in conditions,
among other things.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com




Ya, but when you plug the last hundred years into the trendline for the
past several thousand years, it hardly makes a blip.

No doubt. It's those blips that'll kill ya in the short term (less than 1000
years). We can do something about it if we have the political will.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
easolutions...
No doubt. It's those blips that'll kill ya in the short term (less than
1000 years). We can do something about it if we have the political will.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com




I went through Jr. High and High School during the 70's. It was then the
"scientific concensus" that the Earth was experiencing global cooling,
caused by -- wait for it -- human activity. The one thing that I have
learned over the years is that we don't know half of what we think we do,
and what we do know, even if true in the short-term, may well turn out to be
false in the long run. I've been watching some tinkerers on television
creating "solutions" to "global warming," such as launching millions of
mirrors into space to partially block the sun. These people scare the
bejeesus out of me. More likely than not, if they ever succeed in getting
their half-baked ideas off the ground, is that they'll usher-in another ice
age thousands of years before it would have happened naturally.

The Earth has been warming for the last 12,000 years, give or take. Had it
not been, we wouldn't be here but the skiing would be fantastic.

The only constant in the Earth's climate is change. Always has been, always
will be.



I think the bigger problem is not whether we're warming or cooling,
the problem is the premise that it's human caused and human fixable.
Gordon

"Gordon" wrote in message
m...

The Earth has been warming for the last 12,000 years, give or take. Had
it not been, we wouldn't be here but the skiing would be fantastic.

The only constant in the Earth's climate is change. Always has been,
always will be.

I think the bigger problem is not whether we're warming or cooling, the
problem is the premise that it's human caused and human fixable.
Gordon


The science is pretty clear that humans have contributed greatly to what is
going on and what will continue to happen. It's not clear that we have the
political will world-wide to fix it. Eventually, it'll fix itself, but the
human toll will be pretty high, especially for the coastal regions, food
production, etc.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
easolutions...
"Gordon" wrote in message
m...

The Earth has been warming for the last 12,000 years, give or take. Had
it not been, we wouldn't be here but the skiing would be fantastic.

The only constant in the Earth's climate is change. Always has been,
always will be.

I think the bigger problem is not whether we're warming or cooling, the
problem is the premise that it's human caused and human fixable.
Gordon


The science is pretty clear that humans have contributed greatly

No, it is not clear at all. . .

to what is going on and what will continue to happen.

What's going on is the usual climate cycles primarily caused by how much
energy the Earth receives from the Sun.

It's not clear that we have the political will world-wide to fix it.

The usual climate cycles can never be affected by politics.

Eventually, it'll fix itself, but the human toll will be pretty high,
especially for the coastal regions, food production, etc.

A warmer climate will make it easier to produce more food so your assumption
there is false. As for flooding of the coastal regions, the most dire of
global warming kook forecasts predict a 4" rise in sea level by the end of
the century. That's a one-hundred year period. This will not even be
noticable in the lifespan of the average human being.

Get a clue. All that LSD has damaged your thought process.


Wilbur Hubbard