On-board generators
 

Thanks all -
It looks like if I go this route I'll either spring for the 2000, or check out
the "power sharing" feature.

BTW, I'm thinking about this because every year I find myself hanging out in
some anchorage for a week or so, running the engine for an hour and a half every
day, wishing I had a wind generator or lots more solar panels. But then I work
out the pricing and the hassles, and I start thinking that a neighbor in the
anchorage would probably appreciate a windmill running 24/7 less then an
ultra-quiet genset running 2 hours a day.

Ironically, when we bought the boat, we had a choice of twin diesels, or twin
9.9 outboards. One of the major factors was that the diesels could generate a
lot more juice, and adding a proper genset would almost equalize the weight and
cost issues The builder however, said that I should just keep a portable Honda
in a locker and pull it out when needed - now it looks like we might be doing
just that. (For the record, I'm still glad we got the diesels - I just hate to
run them for charging alone!)


--
-jeff www.sv-loki.com
"I like sailing because it is the sport which demands the least energy" Albert
Einstein




"Chris Newport" wrote in message
news:3120722.S4CdkZmr6U@callisto...
On Thursday 27 May 2004 7:26 pm in rec.boats.cruising Jeff Morris wrote:

I have a follow-on question:
What will happen if I hook a Honda EU1000 to a Heart 2000 charger, which
would
like to charge at 100 Amps? Will it settle at some compromise charge
rate, or will it roll over and die?

100 amps at 12 volts is 1200 watts, but add some ineffiency and the load
will probably be about 1400 watts. This type of overload is nasty - it is
too small to blow a fuse or trip a breaker.

What happens will depend on the actual available power of the engine.
If the engine is only just good enough for 1000 watts it will slow down
and may eventually stall, but it will almost certainly overheat.

If the engine has power in reserve the generator becomes the weak point.
Once again a sustained overload will cause overheating, in this case
the enamel insulation in the windings will be damaged causing internal
shorts. This leads to the escape of the magic smoke, requiring expensive
repairs or consignment to the rubbish heap.

On-board generators
 

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...

It turns out to be a lot worse. The Heart Interface inverter/chargers
are not corrected for power factor. As a result they present a highly
inductive load to the generator and the result is a waveform which
tends to change shape under load. They are VERY tough on even large
generators. My previous boat had a new 7.5 KW gen set which could
barely keep up with the KVA demand from a 150 Amp Heart Interface
charger. Heart recommends something like a 10 KW generator to supply
the 1800 watts to the charger.


Ouch! Is there a smaller charger - perhaps 50 amps - that might work well with
the Honda 1000?

On-board generators
 

Comments below:

"Chris Newport" wrote in message
news:3120722.S4CdkZmr6U@callisto...
On Thursday 27 May 2004 7:26 pm in rec.boats.cruising Jeff Morris wrote:

I have a follow-on question:
What will happen if I hook a Honda EU1000 to a Heart 2000 charger, which
would
like to charge at 100 Amps? Will it settle at some compromise charge
rate, or will it roll over and die?

100 amps at 12 volts is 1200 watts, but add some ineffiency and the load
will probably be about 1400 watts. This type of overload is nasty - it is
too small to blow a fuse or trip a breaker.

What happens will depend on the actual available power of the engine.
If the engine is only just good enough for 1000 watts it will slow down
and may eventually stall, but it will almost certainly overheat.

If the engine has power in reserve the generator becomes the weak point.
Once again a sustained overload will cause overheating, in this case
the enamel insulation in the windings will be damaged causing internal
shorts. This leads to the escape of the magic smoke, requiring expensive
repairs or consignment to the rubbish heap.

First I'd better say I don't know what will happen to the Honda if you
overload it, probably trip a breaker, but I thought you might be interested
to know the Honda EU1000 isn't a normal genset. The Honda EU1000 uses a gas
powered motor to drive an alternator (AC generator) like all gensets. All
normal gensets run at a constant speed if they have any connected load, with
a governor trying to maintain that speed as the electrical load changes.
This is necessary so that the genset produces 60 Hz because the frequency of
the AC is dependant on generator speed. But, in the Honda, the AC power
produced is then rectified to DC and then run through a true sine wave
inverter to produce 60 Hz AC. The motor in the Honda can run at any speed
it wants to match the load as the frequency is set at the inverter. That's
why the Honda can still be producing AC (though less of it) when the genset
is running just above idle speed. Neat rig.

Ken H.

On-board generators
 

Comments below:

"Jeff Morris" wrote in message
...
"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...

It turns out to be a lot worse. The Heart Interface inverter/chargers
are not corrected for power factor. As a result they present a highly
inductive load to the generator and the result is a waveform which
tends to change shape under load. They are VERY tough on even large
generators. My previous boat had a new 7.5 KW gen set which could
barely keep up with the KVA demand from a 150 Amp Heart Interface
charger. Heart recommends something like a 10 KW generator to supply
the 1800 watts to the charger.


Ouch! Is there a smaller charger - perhaps 50 amps - that might work
well with
the Honda 1000?

Based on the description above I suspect the Heart Interface charger is new
technology, based on a switching power supply similar to a computer power
supply. An old technology, transformer based battery charger would probably
have a much more forgiving power factor and would run fine on the Honda.
--
Ken Heaton, Cape Breton Island, Canada
kenheaton AT ess wye dee DOT eastlink DOT ca

On-board generators
 

Comment below:

"Jeff Morris" wrote in message
...
"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...

It turns out to be a lot worse. The Heart Interface inverter/chargers
are not corrected for power factor. As a result they present a highly
inductive load to the generator and the result is a waveform which
tends to change shape under load. They are VERY tough on even large
generators. My previous boat had a new 7.5 KW gen set which could
barely keep up with the KVA demand from a 150 Amp Heart Interface
charger. Heart recommends something like a 10 KW generator to supply
the 1800 watts to the charger.


Ouch! Is there a smaller charger - perhaps 50 amps - that might work
well with
the Honda 1000?

This is a quote from the spec sheet for the Honda EU1000iC It is
information on the DC output outlet built into the genset:

Other standard features include an automatic internal circuit protection
system, 12 VDC battery charging at 6.5 amps, battery charge cable...

DC Receptacle Specifications 6.5 amps / 12 volts D.C. is available from this
receptacle, D.C. charging cable is standard equipment

D.C. Charge Cable Part number - 32650-892-003

http://www.honda.ca/PowerEng/Generat...r/EU1000iC.htm
--
Ken Heaton & Anne Tobin
Cape Breton Island, Canada
kenheaton AT ess wye dee DOT eastlink DOT ca

On-board generators
 

On Thu, 27 May 2004 20:53:57 +0000, Wayne. wrote:

On Fri, 28 May 2004 01:02:49 +0100, Chris Newport wrote:

100 amps at 12 volts is 1200 watts, but add some ineffiency and the load will
probably be about 1400 watts. This type of overload is nasty - it is too small
to blow a fuse or trip a breaker.

==============================================

It turns out to be a lot worse. The Heart Interface inverter/chargers are not
corrected for power factor. As a result they present a highly inductive load to
the generator and the result is a waveform which tends to change shape under
load. They are VERY tough on even large generators. My previous boat had a new
7.5 KW gen set which could barely keep up with the KVA demand from a 150 Amp
Heart Interface charger. Heart recommends something like a 10 KW generator to
supply the 1800 watts to the charger.

This was my experience.

I got a used Honda 1000W generator to run my Statpower 40A smart charger. 40A at
even 14V is under 600W - should be plenty,right? WRONG! power factor around 0.6
and about 90% efficiency means the Statpower was pulling closer to 1200W. The
poor little Honda did it's best, but ran at maybe 90V and the charger kept
kicking out.

BTW: I also tried a 1700W Coleman: WAY too loud!

Now I'm in the market for a eu2000...

Lloyd Sumpter
"Far Cove" Catalina 36

On-board generators
 

On Thu, 27 May 2004 21:00:57 -0400, "Jeff Morris"
wrote:

Ouch! Is there a smaller charger - perhaps 50 amps - that might work well with
the Honda 1000?

=====================================

Some of the new Xantrex inverter/chargers claim that they are
corrected for power factor. I would ask them to recommend/approve, in
writing, a generator size and type before purchasing.

On-board generators
 

....Actually, the newer colemans ARE quieter
Mine (~2KW) says it has 60-80Db
(...I DO talk to things...part of getting old.
DON'T do it...OLD, that is....)
Normal conversation is rated at ~60, and mine
runs mostly at near-idle...
....ONLY had good comments...no things thrown
or spraypaint on my hull yet. :-)



"Steve" wrote in message ...
From my experience, living in an anchorage, those boats with Coleman or
other cheap portable gen/sets, weren't very popular with anyone within a
1/4 mile.

Pay the extra and get a quiet, reliable Honda and you and your neighbors
will be more happy..

Steve
s/v Good Intentions

On-board generators
 

If I understand the totality of your problem, a Honda EB3000c has a DC
outlet/cable that will output a maximum of 12amps at 12v, period.

Weight = 68lbs

Rated AC output = 2.6kVA

I don't know what they now retail for but I got a new one on Ebay for $1K.

HTH



Jeff Morris wrote:

I have a follow-on question:
What will happen if I hook a Honda EU1000 to a Heart 2000 charger, which would
like to charge at 100 Amps? Will it settle at some compromise charge rate, or
will it roll over and die?


"Steve" wrote in message
...

From my experience, living in an anchorage, those boats with Coleman or
other cheap portable gen/sets, weren't very popular with anyone within a
1/4 mile.

Pay the extra and get a quiet, reliable Honda and you and your neighbors
will be more happy..

Steve
s/v Good Intentions







--
s/v Mutiny
Rhodes Bounty II
lying Oriental, NC
WDB5619