Capt. JG wrote:
"Geoff Schultz" wrote in message
.. .
Dave wrote in
:

On Mon, 22 Dec 2008 14:02:42 -0800, "Capt. JG"
said:

I'm going to be hauling soon, and even though I have realitively easy
access to the raw water pump/impeller, I'm thinking of replacing the
cover with a Speedseal. It seems quite simple to do it, and then I'd
be able to deal with a problem without fumbling for a tool. The
impeller is due to get changed anyway, so while I'm there... for
reference, http://www.speedseal.com/speedseal.html.

Has someone used this product? What do you think?
Looks to me like a solution in search of a problem. How many times
have you had to change an impeller under circumstances where you
couldn't do it hove to or anchored?
Clearly you haven't tried to help get a boat off of the beach.

-- Geoff
www.GeoffSchultz.org


My main concern is that if I have to do it quickly, I would be hard pressed
to remove the cover easily...

I've considered getting one for my Yanmar 1GM10 even though its only a
three bolt cover. I like the idea of no longer having to keep supplies
of a thin paper OEM water pump gasket, that no matter how careful you
are, if compressed well enough to seal, tears when you remove the cover
3 times out of 4, and if you *don't* rip it, weeps if re-used unless you
get *ugly* with the gasket dressing.

However the no tools argument is IMHO spurious for most of us as our
minimal toolbox of the OEM's engine tools + a few carefully chosen
extras is stowed somewhere easily accessible (and if we are half way
competent a good kit of tools and spares stowed elsewhere) and one
usually needs tools to remove the impeller from the chamber. Once
you've removed it you are expecting to need the new impeller as well.
I'd also want a spare O ring handy. I hope its a standard size not a
'special' or most of the attraction goes away.

OTOH if your is a six bolt or worse coverplate, or you are working blind
reaching round the engine, I can see the attraction of *NOT* needing
tools unless you've over tightened the bolts. If they are soft brass
slotted screws, you'll also be glad to deep six them.

I'm not so sure that it would work for me with the knurled screws as one
is behind the pulley on the crankshaft and a 7mm ring spanner is really
the only tool that works. I just wouldn't be able to get a grip on that
one to snug it up, let alone a screwdriver onto it to loosen it, but I
see no reason I couldn't have just the plate with a set of hex headed
bolts, and get an extra 7mm spanner to keep with the spare impeller,
cover bolts and O ring. Might as well put the old cover, cleaned up and
with a good gasket stuck to it with a light dressing of Hylomar, and its
bolts in that pump spares pack as well. You *know* that if you are
rushed there's a greater chance you'll drop the whole dammed thing down
the bilge.

I can see other benefits as one can check the impeller more often,
catching failures before they happen and maybe remove it when laid up
so it doesn't take a set so letting you get more life out of it without
worrying without using so many gaskets your local manufactures agent
starts greeting you by name and asking after your family. :-) J.G, If
you are teaching, I would think it would see a lot of use if you
encourage your students to learn basic engine maintenance. Do show them
the old cover and screws though, we wouldn't want them to think it came
as standard!

Its on my 'nice to find in my Christmas stocking' list (hint hint, crew)
but I've got a lot of other things I'd treat my engine to first. A new
starter motor would be nice. The water pump chamber has excessive wear
so a new pump is in the offing. A new HP fuel line as the old one is
over 20 years old and I'd then have the old one for a spare. New single
lever control and a new throttle cable. Finally the biggie, rebuild the
gearbox due to excessive wear and runout on the shifter groove of the
shuttling double cone in the clutch assembly - Its significantly out of
spec even though it still shifts easily and stays in gear reliably.

FWIW, I bought one for my Yanmar about 6 years ago and am very happy
with it. I too was concerned about having to change the impeller
while underway. Have yet to have that experience but it does make the
task easier.

In article lutions,
lid says...
I'm going to be hauling soon, and even though I have realitively easy access
to the raw water pump/impeller, I'm thinking of replacing the cover with a
Speedseal. It seems quite simple to do it, and then I'd be able to deal with
a problem without fumbling for a tool. The impeller is due to get changed
anyway, so while I'm there... for reference,
http://www.speedseal.com/speedseal.html.

Has someone used this product? What do you think?


Yes, I've had one for some years now and it lives up to its name. It has
the main advantage that it is easier and quicker to remove, not needing
tools and, because it has holes and slots, rather than all holes, is
less likely to get dropped when being refitted. (Two screws remain in
the block so it can be relocated without seeing where the screw holes
are.) It also uses an O-ring rather than a gasket for sealing. This
lasts much longer and is less likely to be damaged.

What I'd like is a Speedseal with a window, so I could check the
impeller is rotating :-)
--
John W
To mail me replace the obvious with co.uk twice

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
easolutions...
I'm going to be hauling soon, and even though I have realitively easy
access to the raw water pump/impeller, I'm thinking of replacing the cover
with a Speedseal. It seems quite simple to do it, and then I'd be able to
deal with a problem without fumbling for a tool. The impeller is due to
get changed anyway, so while I'm there... for reference,
http://www.speedseal.com/speedseal.html.

Has someone used this product? What do you think?

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Seems a nice improvment to me.

BUT. It only solves a minor part of the problem. My experience is that the
two big problems are getting the old impeller out and the new one in,
preferably with the wings in the right direction. The Speedseal page
mentions an impeller removal tool but does not show a picture. Does anybody
know what it looks like, how it works and is it useful also in really tight
spots?

Caitzu

"C. S." wrote in message
...
BUT. It only solves a minor part of the problem. My experience is that
the
two big problems are getting the old impeller out and the new one in,
preferably with the wings in the right direction. The Speedseal page
mentions an impeller removal tool but does not show a picture. Does
anybody know what it looks like, how it works and is it useful also in
really tight spots?

Caitzu

Screwdriver has always worked for me. Used carefully you do not damage the
impeller

On Tue, 23 Dec 2008 17:14:17 +0100, "Edgar"
wrote:


"C. S." wrote in message
...
BUT. It only solves a minor part of the problem. My experience is that
the
two big problems are getting the old impeller out and the new one in,
preferably with the wings in the right direction. The Speedseal page
mentions an impeller removal tool but does not show a picture. Does
anybody know what it looks like, how it works and is it useful also in
really tight spots?

Caitzu

Screwdriver has always worked for me. Used carefully you do not damage the
impeller


Damaging the impeller with a screwdriver is not the issue, damaging
the machined mating surface under the cover plate is the real problem
when you try to pry it out.

I've had much better luck with two pairs of needle nose pliers,
grabbing vanes on opposite sides and giving it a straight pull out. A
little shot of PB Blaster on the shaft hub can help if it is really
stuck.

There is a trick to getting the new impeller back in. Wrap a nylon
wire tie around the new impeller, compressing the rubber vanes around
the hub as you tighten it up. That should allow you to get it
started, and then you snip the wire tie with cutters and push the
impeller in all the way. It does not matter if the vanes are pointing
the wrong way - they will flip over on the first turn. A light shot
of silicone spray will ease the process.

It is much better for the engine to replace impellers on a regular
schedule of preventive maintenance rather than waiting for them to
wear out. In addition to preventing a potential overheat, impellers
shed vanes when they wear out, and the loose vanes get stuck elsewhere
in the cooling system.

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
easolutions...
I'm going to be hauling soon, and even though I have realitively easy
access to the raw water pump/impeller, I'm thinking of replacing the cover
with a Speedseal. It seems quite simple to do it, and then I'd be able to
deal with a problem without fumbling for a tool. The impeller is due to
get changed anyway, so while I'm there... for reference,
http://www.speedseal.com/speedseal.html.

Has someone used this product? What do you think?


I have one on a Perkins 4-107 and I think it's the greatest thing since
sliced bread.
An o-ring seals the plate against the pump body so it does not take a great
deal
of force to tighten it sufficiently. The nuts do not seem to have a
propensity for
loosening as long as you don't use a lubricant on the threads. I use a
little bit of
anti-seizing compound on the threads for easy disassembly.

To those who seem to be having problems getting the impeller out, I have
found
that a medium-sized pair of water-pump pliers is all that it takes for mine.
Grab it
across the diameter of the impeller between opposite pairs of vanes and pull
it slowly out.

When I install a new impeller, I clean the shaft with mineral spirits and
take the precaution
of wiping on a bit of anti-seizing compound in the bore before I install the
new one,
and I grease the impeller blades lightly with a bit of white teflon grease.

Start the impeller into the case a little "ahead of the rotation"
and twist the impeller in the direction of rotation to predispose the vanes
to bend
in the correct direction and the impeller drops into place like it knows
where it's going.
Or just wrap thumb and index finger around the impeller and fold the vanes
down
and insert it directly.

Tom Dacon

On Tue, 23 Dec 2008 13:36:57 -0000, John Weston
wrote:

In article lutions,
says...
I'm going to be hauling soon, and even though I have realitively easy access
to the raw water pump/impeller, I'm thinking of replacing the cover with a
Speedseal. It seems quite simple to do it, and then I'd be able to deal with
a problem without fumbling for a tool. The impeller is due to get changed
anyway, so while I'm there... for reference,
http://www.speedseal.com/speedseal.html.

Has someone used this product? What do you think?


Yes, I've had one for some years now and it lives up to its name. It has
the main advantage that it is easier and quicker to remove, not needing
tools and, because it has holes and slots, rather than all holes, is
less likely to get dropped when being refitted. (Two screws remain in
the block so it can be relocated without seeing where the screw holes
are.) It also uses an O-ring rather than a gasket for sealing. This
lasts much longer and is less likely to be damaged.

What I'd like is a Speedseal with a window, so I could check the
impeller is rotating :-)

Anybody know how raw water pumps performed before impellers
became synthetic?
Not having a boat, but having plenty of experience with pumps, it
strikes me as odd that engine cooling should be such a dicey
proposition.
I can understand the rubber impellers on OB's, which can't be
practically equipped with the filters some have posted about here.
The biggest argument for them I've seen is the vanes giving way to
twigs and other detritus. Don't the canister filters I've seen here
keep this from getting to the pump?
Corrosion resistance is another argument, but there are metal alloys
that do well at that.
Then there's price. Which I suspect is the real seller.
I did look a bit on the net for metal impeller raw water pumps, but
what I found were electric motor powered, maybe intended for ships.
It seems that with decent filtering a metal impeller pump would be
more reliable in protecting an expensive engine.
You mentioned knowing if the impeller is turning.
Can't a pressure gage set be attached to these pumps, perhaps with a
low-pressure alarm or engine shutdown?
It just seems very odd to me that so much is left to chance.
Weather I can understand. A blown engine because of an inoperative
impeller is more difficult.
On the surface it looks like sailors have no mechanical aptitude, and
are getting suckered by "accepted practice" regarding engine systems.
But I don't believe that, so I'd appreciate some instruction from the
sailors here as to why this "diciness" about engine cooling exists.
I started to say these "plastic" impellers suck, but unfortunately it
appears that might be praising them.
Thanks!

--Vic

On Tue, 23 Dec 2008 11:54:08 -0600, Vic Smith
wrote:

On the surface it looks like sailors have no mechanical aptitude, and
are getting suckered by "accepted practice" regarding engine systems.
But I don't believe that, so I'd appreciate some instruction from the
sailors here as to why this "diciness" about engine cooling exists.
I started to say these "plastic" impellers suck, but unfortunately it
appears that might be praising them.

Impellers need to be replaced on a regular schedule. 300 to 500
operating hours is about right in my experience.

In their favor, impeller pumps are compact, efficient and self
priming.

"IanM" wrote in message
...
Capt. JG wrote:
"Geoff Schultz" wrote in message
.. .
Dave wrote in
:

On Mon, 22 Dec 2008 14:02:42 -0800, "Capt. JG"
said:

I'm going to be hauling soon, and even though I have realitively easy
access to the raw water pump/impeller, I'm thinking of replacing the
cover with a Speedseal. It seems quite simple to do it, and then I'd
be able to deal with a problem without fumbling for a tool. The
impeller is due to get changed anyway, so while I'm there... for
reference, http://www.speedseal.com/speedseal.html.

Has someone used this product? What do you think?
Looks to me like a solution in search of a problem. How many times
have you had to change an impeller under circumstances where you
couldn't do it hove to or anchored?
Clearly you haven't tried to help get a boat off of the beach.

-- Geoff
www.GeoffSchultz.org


My main concern is that if I have to do it quickly, I would be hard
pressed to remove the cover easily...

I've considered getting one for my Yanmar 1GM10 even though its only a
three bolt cover. I like the idea of no longer having to keep supplies of
a thin paper OEM water pump gasket, that no matter how careful you are, if
compressed well enough to seal, tears when you remove the cover 3 times
out of 4, and if you *don't* rip it, weeps if re-used unless you get
*ugly* with the gasket dressing.

However the no tools argument is IMHO spurious for most of us as our
minimal toolbox of the OEM's engine tools + a few carefully chosen extras
is stowed somewhere easily accessible (and if we are half way competent a
good kit of tools and spares stowed elsewhere) and one usually needs
tools to remove the impeller from the chamber. Once you've removed it you
are expecting to need the new impeller as well.
I'd also want a spare O ring handy. I hope its a standard size not a
'special' or most of the attraction goes away.

OTOH if your is a six bolt or worse coverplate, or you are working blind
reaching round the engine, I can see the attraction of *NOT* needing tools
unless you've over tightened the bolts. If they are soft brass slotted
screws, you'll also be glad to deep six them.

I'm not so sure that it would work for me with the knurled screws as one
is behind the pulley on the crankshaft and a 7mm ring spanner is really
the only tool that works. I just wouldn't be able to get a grip on that
one to snug it up, let alone a screwdriver onto it to loosen it, but I see
no reason I couldn't have just the plate with a set of hex headed bolts,
and get an extra 7mm spanner to keep with the spare impeller, cover bolts
and O ring. Might as well put the old cover, cleaned up and with a good
gasket stuck to it with a light dressing of Hylomar, and its bolts in that
pump spares pack as well. You *know* that if you are rushed there's a
greater chance you'll drop the whole dammed thing down the bilge.

I can see other benefits as one can check the impeller more often,
catching failures before they happen and maybe remove it when laid up so
it doesn't take a set so letting you get more life out of it without
worrying without using so many gaskets your local manufactures agent
starts greeting you by name and asking after your family. :-) J.G, If you
are teaching, I would think it would see a lot of use if you encourage
your students to learn basic engine maintenance. Do show them the old
cover and screws though, we wouldn't want them to think it came as
standard!

Its on my 'nice to find in my Christmas stocking' list (hint hint, crew)
but I've got a lot of other things I'd treat my engine to first. A new
starter motor would be nice. The water pump chamber has excessive wear so
a new pump is in the offing. A new HP fuel line as the old one is over 20
years old and I'd then have the old one for a spare. New single lever
control and a new throttle cable. Finally the biggie, rebuild the gearbox
due to excessive wear and runout on the shifter groove of the shuttling
double cone in the clutch assembly - Its significantly out of spec even
though it still shifts easily and stays in gear reliably.


I know what you mean about the right tools. My concern would be not being
able to put my hands on them quickly enough, have them scattered around if I
have to use them while in a sea way, or having to climb over other people or
things to get or use them... well, none of this is that difficult to figure
out.

My RWP has a number of screws holding the impeller cover... it's fairly
accessible, however.

http://picasaweb.google.com/SailNOW....31246863609314
http://picasaweb.google.com/SailNOW....31276928380402


--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com