Reaching struts on Hunters ?
 

I've seen several Hunters abot 35' or so that have what looks like a
pair of s/s reaching struts - is this what they are?

I'm interested in the materials used are mast fastenings.

Reaching struts on Hunters ?
 

Going Cruising wrote:
I've seen several Hunters abot 35' or so that have what looks like a
pair of s/s reaching struts - is this what they are?

I'm interested in the materials used are mast fastenings.

Probably not "reaching struts." A reaching strut is a specialized piece of
gear that is used with conventional spinnakers in certain situations. In
particular, when reaching with a conventional (i.e., symmetrical) spinnaker,
the spinnaker pole is eased forward until it is almost on the headstay,
This places a tremendous load on the guy, and a reaching strut is used
to force the guy outboard at right angles to the fore and aft line. This
reduces the load on the guy and on the rig itself. If my description sounds
too complicated, take a look at "Sail Power" or some other reference for the
details.

What you probably observed were a pair of "downwind poles." These are often
used to run downwind under twin headsails. Again, this is a slightly
specialized rig that was once very popular with boats cruising the trades.
Usually the poles are set on twin tracks on the mast, and depending on the
level of complexity they may have tackles to adjust the height of the
inboard end, the fore and aft angle, etc. There are specialized mast
fittings purpose built for twin poles that are quite different from a
standard spinnaker pole setup.

--
Good luck and good sailing.
s/v Kerry Deare of Barnegat
http://kerrydeare.home.comcast.net/

Reaching struts on Hunters ?
 

Those are just a kind of brace to strengthen the lower part of the
mast. I suppose that they can be considered a kind of a shroud.
Probably cheaper than equiping the boat with a good mast and
good shrouds and good chainplates.

Doug
s/v Callista

"Going Cruising" wrote in message
...
I've seen several Hunters abot 35' or so that have what looks like a
pair of s/s reaching struts - is this what they are?

I'm interested in the materials used are mast fastenings.

Reaching struts on Hunters ?
 

Its a pair of struts to handle the loading at the gooseneck and
transfer it to the chainplates.

On Wed, 19 May 2004 16:44:06 -0700, Going Cruising
wrote:

I've seen several Hunters abot 35' or so that have what looks like a
pair of s/s reaching struts - is this what they are?

I'm interested in the materials used are mast fastenings.

Reaching struts on Hunters ?
 

Thanks for all your conjectures - but you're not even close. I know
what normal reaching struts are, I also know what downwind poles are -
if my answer seems too complicated - take a look up you ass and see
where your head is. Thanks again.



On Wed, 19 May 2004 20:07:49 -0400, "Armond Perretta"
wrote:

Going Cruising wrote:
I've seen several Hunters abot 35' or so that have what looks like a
pair of s/s reaching struts - is this what they are?

I'm interested in the materials used are mast fastenings.

Probably not "reaching struts." A reaching strut is a specialized piece of
gear that is used with conventional spinnakers in certain situations. In
particular, when reaching with a conventional (i.e., symmetrical) spinnaker,
the spinnaker pole is eased forward until it is almost on the headstay,
This places a tremendous load on the guy, and a reaching strut is used
to force the guy outboard at right angles to the fore and aft line. This
reduces the load on the guy and on the rig itself. If my description sounds
too complicated, take a look at "Sail Power" or some other reference for the
details.

What you probably observed were a pair of "downwind poles." These are often
used to run downwind under twin headsails. Again, this is a slightly
specialized rig that was once very popular with boats cruising the trades.
Usually the poles are set on twin tracks on the mast, and depending on the
level of complexity they may have tackles to adjust the height of the
inboard end, the fore and aft angle, etc. There are specialized mast
fittings purpose built for twin poles that are quite different from a
standard spinnaker pole setup.

Reaching struts on Hunters ?
 

Going Cruising wrote:
"Armond Perretta" wrote:
Going Cruising wrote:

I've seen several Hunters abot [sic] 35' or so that have what looks
like a pair of s/s reaching struts - [sic]is this what they are?

I'm interested in the materials used are [sic] mast fastenings.

Probably not "reaching struts" ... [long attempt at an explanation
snipped]

Thanks for all your conjectures - but you're not even close ...
... if my answer seems too complicated - take a look up you ass
and see where your head is ...

This charming fellow has just demonstrated that no good deed goes
unpunished, even at sea.

--
Good luck and good sailing.
s/v Kerry Deare of Barnegat
http://kerrydeare.home.comcast.net/

Reaching struts on Hunters ?
 

Going Cruising wrote:
Thanks for all your conjectures - but you're not even close. I know
what normal reaching struts are, I also know what downwind poles are -
if my answer seems too complicated - take a look up you ass and see
where your head is. Thanks again.

Well,

Congratulations. You've managed to join JAXashby as the only RBC
posters in my killfile. Goodbye plonk

Don W.

Reaching struts on Hunters ?
 

Why did you snip your exhibition of condescending rudeness and very
obvious superiority attitude. We've been cruising and going again -
mainly to get away from little dock dickheads like you.



On Thu, 20 May 2004 07:51:17 -0400, "Armond Perretta"
wrote:

Going Cruising wrote:
"Armond Perretta" wrote:
Going Cruising wrote:

I've seen several Hunters abot [sic] 35' or so that have what looks
like a pair of s/s reaching struts - [sic]is this what they are?

I'm interested in the materials used are [sic] mast fastenings.

Probably not "reaching struts" ... [long attempt at an explanation
snipped]

Thanks for all your conjectures - but you're not even close ...
... if my answer seems too complicated - take a look up you ass
and see where your head is ...

This charming fellow has just demonstrated that no good deed goes
unpunished, even at sea.

Reaching struts on Hunters ?
 

Marc wrote:
Its a pair of struts to handle the loading at the gooseneck and
transfer it to the chainplates.

That's right. The newer Hunters have adapted the B&R rig from the
Hunter's Child. Chopped a lot of weight aloft by reducing the mast
section, adding mast support struts, deep swept spreaders reverse
diagonals and jumpers on some. It does save weight but adds a lot of
windage, causes a lot of chafe on the main down wind and is impossible
to adjust headstay tension.

--
Glenn Ashmore

I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com
Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com

Reaching struts on Hunters ?
 

Going Cruising wrote:
"Armond Perretta" wrote:
Going Cruising wrote:
"Armond Perretta" wrote:
Going Cruising wrote:

I've seen several Hunters abot [sic] 35' or so that have what
looks like a pair of s/s reaching struts - [sic]is this what
they are?

I'm interested in the materials used are [sic] mast fastenings.

Probably not "reaching struts" ... [long attempt at an
explanation snipped]

Thanks for all your conjectures - [sic] but you're not even close ...
... if my answer seems too complicated - [sic] take a look up you ass
and see where your head is ...

This charming fellow has just demonstrated that no good deed goes
unpunished, even at sea.

Why did you snip your exhibition of condescending rudeness and very
obvious superiority [sic] attitude. We've been cruising and going again -
[sic] mainly to get away from little dock dickheads like you.

DEPARTMENT OF "This Is A Waste Of Good Bandwidth, But Anyway ..."::

Now that you mention it, I was way out of line. I really do mean it when I
say I apologize for my transgressions. Incidentally, when _are_ you
leaving, and can anyone around here help you slip the lines?

--
Good luck and good sailing.
s/v Kerry Deare of Barnegat
http://kerrydeare.home.comcast.net/

Reaching struts on Hunters ?
 

Glenn Ashmore wrote:
That's right. The newer Hunters have adapted the B&R rig from the
Hunter's Child. Chopped a lot of weight aloft by reducing the mast
section, adding mast support struts, deep swept spreaders reverse
diagonals and jumpers on some. It does save weight but adds a lot of
windage, causes a lot of chafe on the main down wind and is impossible
to adjust headstay tension.

It's possible to adjust headstay tension & rake with a B&R rig, it's
just not quite as simple as with a more conventional rig.

The B&R rig is poorly adapted for keelboats though. It was all the rage
among skiffs for a while, for example the world champ Int'l 14s had them
for a few years. But they have evolved past that now. It is a rig for
use in light fast boats that don't ease the main out very far going
downwind, because they always have apparent wind well forward.

Why Hunter decided to put it on their cruising boats, I don't know. Looks?

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Reaching struts on Hunters ?
 

On Thu, 20 May 2004 18:46:41 -0400, DSK wrote:

It's possible to adjust headstay tension & rake with a B&R rig, it's
just not quite as simple as with a more conventional rig.

============================================

The problem is that you can't really change headstay tension while
underway when you need to adapt to changing wind conditions.

Reaching struts on Hunters ?
 

Hunter has had B& R rigs since 1983. The current incarnation with
inboard and out board chain plates, deeply swept back spreaders and
compression struts enables them to eliminate the back stay. In my
opinion an absolutely horrendous rig, but then, I sail a Freedom


On Thu, 20 May 2004 18:46:41 -0400, DSK wrote:

Glenn Ashmore wrote:
That's right. The newer Hunters have adapted the B&R rig from the
Hunter's Child. Chopped a lot of weight aloft by reducing the mast
section, adding mast support struts, deep swept spreaders reverse
diagonals and jumpers on some. It does save weight but adds a lot of
windage, causes a lot of chafe on the main down wind and is impossible
to adjust headstay tension.

It's possible to adjust headstay tension & rake with a B&R rig, it's
just not quite as simple as with a more conventional rig.

The B&R rig is poorly adapted for keelboats though. It was all the rage
among skiffs for a while, for example the world champ Int'l 14s had them
for a few years. But they have evolved past that now. It is a rig for
use in light fast boats that don't ease the main out very far going
downwind, because they always have apparent wind well forward.

Why Hunter decided to put it on their cruising boats, I don't know. Looks?

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Reaching struts on Hunters ?
 

Wayne.B wrote:
The problem is that you can't really change headstay tension while
underway when you need to adapt to changing wind conditions.

That's not how you adapt that rig anyway, it's not like a regular frac
rig where pulling the backstay is the first reef. With the full batten
big roach main, the first step to depower is to let it twist more, the
next step is to either take in the jib (which is small, these rigs don't
carry genoas) or reef.

The racing dinghy rigs had a wire to a set of reverse jumpers to bend
the upper mast. This depowered the rig nicely. Newer boats achieve the
same thing using a flexy composite top mast section.



Marc wrote:
Hunter has had B& R rigs since 1983.

Well, they didn't start putting them on production boats until a few
years later.


.... In my
opinion an absolutely horrendous rig, but then, I sail a Freedom

Everything has a place. I'd bet you didn't think much of Hunter's
"Vision" series either....

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Reaching struts on Hunters ?
 

Hunter put a B&R rig on the 1983 H27, and H31, the 1984 H34 and H40.
I owned A 1984 H31 with the B& R Rig.

A lot of people didn't think much of the Vision series. That was the
problem.

On Thu, 20 May 2004 21:42:08 -0400, DSK wrote:

Wayne.B wrote:
The problem is that you can't really change headstay tension while
underway when you need to adapt to changing wind conditions.

That's not how you adapt that rig anyway, it's not like a regular frac
rig where pulling the backstay is the first reef. With the full batten
big roach main, the first step to depower is to let it twist more, the
next step is to either take in the jib (which is small, these rigs don't
carry genoas) or reef.

The racing dinghy rigs had a wire to a set of reverse jumpers to bend
the upper mast. This depowered the rig nicely. Newer boats achieve the
same thing using a flexy composite top mast section.



Marc wrote:
Hunter has had B& R rigs since 1983.

Well, they didn't start putting them on production boats until a few
years later.


.... In my
opinion an absolutely horrendous rig, but then, I sail a Freedom

Everything has a place. I'd bet you didn't think much of Hunter's
"Vision" series either....

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Reaching struts on Hunters ?
 

Marc wrote:
Hunter put a B&R rig on the 1983 H27, and H31, the 1984 H34 and H40.
I owned A 1984 H31 with the B& R Rig.


http://www.sailboatowners.com/boats/...16&fno=0&bts=T

http://www.sailboatowners.com/boats/...24&fno=0&bts=T

I suggest you take another look at the B&R rig. The boats you are
talking about are conventional rigs.



A lot of people didn't think much of the Vision series. That was the
problem.

I thought it was a great idea, but didn't care much for Hunter's
execution of it. The Freedoms are much better designed and much better
built... and of course, much much more expensive.

FWIW my favorite of the Freedom boats is the old 40 cat ketch.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Reaching struts on Hunters ?
 

The H27 model you reference is not the 27 I'm thinking of. The H 27
I'm (possibly mistakenly) referring to is a smaller version of the H31
of your second link.

The H 31 in your second link does indeed have a B&R rig made by Isomat
with an Isomat boom. the Isomat B& R Mast Head Rig had double swept
back spreaders with double overlapping integral diamond adjustable
stays to induce mast bend. Cap, mid and lower shrouds to an inboard
chainplate. Extruded track on forward section of mast and mid mast
sheeve for an adjustible spinnaker car. Also equipped with a high
split rear stay to accomodate an aft boarding ladder.

http://www.sailboatowners.com/album/...07468631&bts=T

The above URL give a better view of the rig



On Fri, 21 May 2004 06:41:13 -0400, DSK wrote:

Marc wrote:
Hunter put a B&R rig on the 1983 H27, and H31, the 1984 H34 and H40.
I owned A 1984 H31 with the B& R Rig.


http://www.sailboatowners.com/boats/...16&fno=0&bts=T

http://www.sailboatowners.com/boats/...24&fno=0&bts=T

I suggest you take another look at the B&R rig. The boats you are
talking about are conventional rigs.



A lot of people didn't think much of the Vision series. That was the
problem.

I thought it was a great idea, but didn't care much for Hunter's
execution of it. The Freedoms are much better designed and much better
built... and of course, much much more expensive.

FWIW my favorite of the Freedom boats is the old 40 cat ketch.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Reaching struts on Hunters ?
 

Marc wrote:
The H 31 in your second link does indeed have a B&R rig made by Isomat
with an Isomat boom. the Isomat B& R Mast Head Rig had double swept
back spreaders with double overlapping integral diamond adjustable
stays to induce mast bend.

I wouldn't call that a B&R rig, for one things it's a masthead with a
backstay. It's got some of the elements of the B&R though, kind of a
*******ized stepchild. With the standing backstay, it can't have a big
roachy mainsail, with the wide double spreaders it can't set a genoa
properly.

No wonder you thought it was a horrible rig. This looks like it has all
the B&R faults and none of the benefits. What were they thinking?

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Reaching struts on Hunters ?
 

On Thu, 20 May 2004 14:09:48 GMT, Don W
wrote:


Congratulations. You've managed to join JAXashby as the only RBC
posters in my killfile. Goodbye plonk

Shouldn't that be glug!?

As in consigned to a watery grave of angry electrons.

R.

Reaching struts on Hunters ?
 

rhys wrote:
Don W wrote:

Congratulations. You've managed to join JAXashby as the only RBC
posters in my killfile. Goodbye plonk

Shouldn't that be glug!?

As in consigned to a watery grave of angry electrons.

I have known ill-used and oft-abused electrons, but I've yet to see an
electron react in anger.

--
Good luck and good sailing.
s/v Kerry Deare of Barnegat
http://kerrydeare.home.comcast.net/

Reaching struts on Hunters ?
 

Bergstrom & Ridder have been designing rigs since 1972. The patented
characteristics of a B&R rig are the diagonal diamonds, in lieu of
running back stays, and swept back spreaders with a small mast
section. This rig was first seen on Thursday's Child, built in 1983.
That B&R rig was incorporated as a masthead rig with back stay on all
subsequent Hunters. In 1989, Thursday's Child was re- fit with a
fractional B&R rig with no backstay, a precursor of all the new Hunter
rigs.

B&R designs have been incorporated into Hunters for the past 21 years,
first through Isomat, then some other fabricators, and now Seldon


On Fri, 21 May 2004 10:26:29 -0400, DSK wrote:



I wouldn't call that a B&R rig, for one things it's a masthead with a
backstay. It's got some of the elements of the B&R though, kind of a
*******ized stepchild. With the standing backstay, it can't have a big
roachy mainsail, with the wide double spreaders it can't set a genoa
properly.

No wonder you thought it was a horrible rig. This looks like it has all
the B&R faults and none of the benefits. What were they thinking?

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Reaching struts on Hunters ?
 

Actually, the design paramaters for the B&R rig preclude any kind of
on the fly adjustments so dear to the racing sailor or compulsive
tweaker. Its set it and forget it, what you see is what you got.

As for the older B&R designs, you couldn't use a backstay tensioner.
If you cranked down on the back stay, you loosened the diagonals (not
good)




On Thu, 20 May 2004 13:59:35 -0400, Glenn Ashmore
wrote:



Marc wrote:
Its a pair of struts to handle the loading at the gooseneck and
transfer it to the chainplates.

That's right. The newer Hunters have adapted the B&R rig from the
Hunter's Child. Chopped a lot of weight aloft by reducing the mast
section, adding mast support struts, deep swept spreaders reverse
diagonals and jumpers on some. It does save weight but adds a lot of
windage, causes a lot of chafe on the main down wind and is impossible
to adjust headstay tension.

Reaching struts on Hunters ?
 

Marc wrote:
Bergstrom & Ridder have been designing rigs since 1972. The patented
characteristics of a B&R rig are the diagonal diamonds, in lieu of
running back stays, and swept back spreaders with a small mast
section ..

I'd have guessed it was the other way around. I.e., the swept-back
spreaders compensate for the lack of runners, and that the characteristic
"diamond shrouds" keep the mast "in column" athwartships without the use of
conventional twin lowers.

That'd be my _first_ guess in any case.

--
Good luck and good sailing.
s/v Kerry Deare of Barnegat
http://kerrydeare.home.comcast.net/

Reaching struts on Hunters ?
 

You are correct. I got twisted around.

On Fri, 21 May 2004 14:10:46 -0400, "Armond Perretta"
wrote:

Marc wrote:
Bergstrom & Ridder have been designing rigs since 1972. The patented
characteristics of a B&R rig are the diagonal diamonds, in lieu of
running back stays, and swept back spreaders with a small mast
section ..

I'd have guessed it was the other way around. I.e., the swept-back
spreaders compensate for the lack of runners, and that the characteristic
"diamond shrouds" keep the mast "in column" athwartships without the use of
conventional twin lowers.

That'd be my _first_ guess in any case.