installing a calorifier
 

I would like to install a calorifier connected to the boat engine. Could
somebody give me advise how to do it and how to avoid mistakes? My
engine is a Iveco aifo 8141 and I would like to connect a small
calorifier, preferably a flat one to fix it near the engine. Thank you!

installing a calorifier
 

Juan,
Terrible idea, they are useless. For those readers that do not know what a
calorifier is, he means a fresh water heat exchanger that uses engine
coolant to heat drinking water.

Their use unbalances your engine cooling system which causes the engine to
run too cool. If your engine runs too cool, condensated water inside the
motor doesn't get boiled off and mixes with the sulpher in your lube oil.
This forms sulferic acid, which corodes your oil and creates excessive
sludge. This is the very least damage you can expect. On the other side of
the system, they don't create enough hot water, they take up too much space
and the temperature of the output water varies wildly. There is also a
distinct possibility that a leak will occur, which will contaminate your
drinking water supply and may be undetected. This represents a very serious
health risk. If those reasons are still not enough to disuade you, consider
the mode of useage. In order to extract adequate energy from the engine
cooling system, the engine must be under load, not idling. They are a
wonderful idea, that simply does not work. Think electric tankless heaters,
if space is a concern.
Steve

"Juan Bassols" wrote in message
...
I would like to install a calorifier connected to the boat engine. Could
somebody give me advise how to do it and how to avoid mistakes? My
engine is a Iveco aifo 8141 and I would like to connect a small
calorifier, preferably a flat one to fix it near the engine. Thank you!

installing a calorifier
 

If my previous post still has not convinced you otherwise, the correct way
to connect one is to intercept the return water line from the engine to the
heat exchanger and connect in series the transfer coil in the colorifier at
that point.
Steve

"Juan Bassols" wrote in message
...
I would like to install a calorifier connected to the boat engine. Could
somebody give me advise how to do it and how to avoid mistakes? My
engine is a Iveco aifo 8141 and I would like to connect a small
calorifier, preferably a flat one to fix it near the engine. Thank you!

installing a calorifier
 

On Sat, 11 Oct 2008 06:43:31 +0200, "Steve Lusardi"
wrote:

Juan,
Terrible idea, they are useless. For those readers that do not know what a
calorifier is, he means a fresh water heat exchanger that uses engine
coolant to heat drinking water.

Their use unbalances your engine cooling system which causes the engine to
run too cool. If your engine runs too cool, condensated water inside the
motor doesn't get boiled off and mixes with the sulpher in your lube oil.
This forms sulferic acid, which corodes your oil and creates excessive
sludge. This is the very least damage you can expect. On the other side of
the system, they don't create enough hot water, they take up too much space
and the temperature of the output water varies wildly. There is also a
distinct possibility that a leak will occur, which will contaminate your
drinking water supply and may be undetected. This represents a very serious
health risk. If those reasons are still not enough to disuade you, consider
the mode of useage. In order to extract adequate energy from the engine
cooling system, the engine must be under load, not idling. They are a
wonderful idea, that simply does not work. Think electric tankless heaters,
if space is a concern.
Steve

"Juan Bassols" wrote in message
...
I would like to install a calorifier connected to the boat engine. Could
somebody give me advise how to do it and how to avoid mistakes? My
engine is a Iveco aifo 8141 and I would like to connect a small
calorifier, preferably a flat one to fix it near the engine. Thank you!



Steve, you've got to be kidding. Right?

Just about every boat I've seen has a water heater with an engine
water heat exchanger built in to make hot water when away from the
dock. Ours, and several I've owned, work fine. The thermostat keeps
the coolant at pretty much a constant temperature, therefore keeping
the "hot water" at a fairly constant temperture. Okay, so hot water
made at idle is a bit less hot than under way.

I assume a calorifier is just a water heater with no other means of
heating the water?

Rick

** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

installing a calorifier
 

Rick,
No, I'm not kidding. I know many people use them, but that does not mitigate
the risks I stated. It is far more efficient and space saving to connect an
alternator to the same engine and drive a tankless heater, which not only
eliminates the stated risks, but also allows the location of the water
heater in any available space, electric power for other purposes and the
cost is either equal to or less than, the cost of the calorifier. Sometimes
a colorifier will also have a bung where an electric heater element can be
used when shore power is connected.

I bought one and never used it. Instead, I decided to use a conventional 50
gallon household water heater, as I have adequate AC and the space. In point
of fact that, calorifier is available cheap to those folks that I have not
convinced. It is new, all copper, insulated with a thin layer of
polyurethane foam and the size is somewhere around 50 liters as I recall. I
think there is also a bung for an element, but I'm not sure without digging
it out. I think I bought it in the eighties.
Steve

"Rick Morel" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 11 Oct 2008 06:43:31 +0200, "Steve Lusardi"
wrote:

Juan,
Terrible idea, they are useless. For those readers that do not know what a
calorifier is, he means a fresh water heat exchanger that uses engine
coolant to heat drinking water.

Their use unbalances your engine cooling system which causes the engine to
run too cool. If your engine runs too cool, condensated water inside the
motor doesn't get boiled off and mixes with the sulpher in your lube oil.
This forms sulferic acid, which corodes your oil and creates excessive
sludge. This is the very least damage you can expect. On the other side of
the system, they don't create enough hot water, they take up too much
space
and the temperature of the output water varies wildly. There is also a
distinct possibility that a leak will occur, which will contaminate your
drinking water supply and may be undetected. This represents a very
serious
health risk. If those reasons are still not enough to disuade you,
consider
the mode of useage. In order to extract adequate energy from the engine
cooling system, the engine must be under load, not idling. They are a
wonderful idea, that simply does not work. Think electric tankless
heaters,
if space is a concern.
Steve

"Juan Bassols" wrote in message
...
I would like to install a calorifier connected to the boat engine. Could
somebody give me advise how to do it and how to avoid mistakes? My
engine is a Iveco aifo 8141 and I would like to connect a small
calorifier, preferably a flat one to fix it near the engine. Thank you!



Steve, you've got to be kidding. Right?

Just about every boat I've seen has a water heater with an engine
water heat exchanger built in to make hot water when away from the
dock. Ours, and several I've owned, work fine. The thermostat keeps
the coolant at pretty much a constant temperature, therefore keeping
the "hot water" at a fairly constant temperture. Okay, so hot water
made at idle is a bit less hot than under way.

I assume a calorifier is just a water heater with no other means of
heating the water?

Rick

** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

installing a calorifier
 

On Oct 11, 9:16 am, "Steve Lusardi" wrote:
Rick,
No, I'm not kidding. I know many people use them, but that does not mitigate
the risks I stated. It is far more efficient and space saving to connect an
alternator to the same engine and drive a tankless heater, which not only
eliminates the stated risks, but also allows the location of the water
heater in any available space, electric power for other purposes and the
cost is either equal to or less than, the cost of the calorifier. Sometimes
a colorifier will also have a bung where an electric heater element can be
used when shore power is connected.

This is ridiculous. Water heaters do not hurt the engine for the
simple reason that the thermostat will keep the coolant at a constant
temperature. Doesnt mater where you put the heater, the thermostat
will keep the engine at the same temperature all the time.

installing a calorifier
 

Juan:

See page 49 of your Iveco 8141 shop manual, which can be found he

http://www.sabb.no/eng/viewfile.aspx?id=101

Note the diagram indicates (2) 'Heater Water Outlet, and (6) Heater
Water Inlet. I believe this is where you'll connect the 'calorifier'
or 'domestic water heater'

Then see:

http://www.raritaneng.com/pdf_files/...eaterv0502.pdf

for the installation instructions for one company's product, a unit
that allows 120 - 240 volt shore power hot water as well as engine
coolant hot water.

Mike Worrall
Los Angeles

installing a calorifier
 

Steve

thank you for your warnings, I will think about it. I have a sailing
yacht and normally I sail and don't have a chance for a hot water
shower. If I have to use the engine, then I was thinking to have a
chance for a warm shower.
I thought to install the calorifier in parallel with the sea water heat
exchanger and with a 3 way valve. If I install it in series the pressure
drop of the circuit will increase and I will pump less water through the
engine. In parallel I have the possibility to disconnect the calorifier
without influencing the water circuit.

Juan

Steve Lusardi wrote:

If my previous post still has not convinced you otherwise, the correct way
to connect one is to intercept the return water line from the engine to the
heat exchanger and connect in series the transfer coil in the colorifier at
that point.
Steve

"Juan Bassols" wrote in message
...
I would like to install a calorifier connected to the boat engine. Could
somebody give me advise how to do it and how to avoid mistakes? My
engine is a Iveco aifo 8141 and I would like to connect a small
calorifier, preferably a flat one to fix it near the engine. Thank you!

installing a calorifier
 

Mike:

Thank you verry much for the adress wih the manual, I do not have much
documentation of my engine and this will be helpfull.

Juan
Barcelona (Spain)

wrote:

Juan:

See page 49 of your Iveco 8141 shop manual, which can be found he

http://www.sabb.no/eng/viewfile.aspx?id=101

Note the diagram indicates (2) 'Heater Water Outlet, and (6) Heater
Water Inlet. I believe this is where you'll connect the 'calorifier'
or 'domestic water heater'

Then see:

http://www.raritaneng.com/pdf_files/...eaterv0502.pdf

for the installation instructions for one company's product, a unit
that allows 120 - 240 volt shore power hot water as well as engine
coolant hot water.

Mike Worrall
Los Angeles

installing a calorifier
 

On Sat, 11 Oct 2008 21:38:20 +0200, (Juan Bassols)
wrote:

Steve

thank you for your warnings, I will think about it. I have a sailing
yacht and normally I sail and don't have a chance for a hot water
shower. If I have to use the engine, then I was thinking to have a
chance for a warm shower.
I thought to install the calorifier in parallel with the sea water heat
exchanger and with a 3 way valve. If I install it in series the pressure
drop of the circuit will increase and I will pump less water through the
engine. In parallel I have the possibility to disconnect the calorifier
without influencing the water circuit.

Juan

Juan, standard procedure is to hook it in series. Break the fresh
water cooling return line from the heat exchanger, go through the
calorifier from the heat exchanger then to the return line. No
pressure drop involved, you're simply circulating the water as before.
In fact, it's a good thing because now you've added to the volume of
your fresh cooling water by the amount of the hoses and calorifier.

On our sailing yacht, which is home, 20 minutes of running gives us 6
gal of 180 deg F shower water. Our water heater is well insulated so
we have hot water for about 10 hours or so after shutting the engine
down.

Rick

** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

installing a calorifier
 

Rick Morel wrote:

On Sat, 11 Oct 2008 21:38:20 +0200, (Juan Bassols)
wrote:

Steve

thank you for your warnings, I will think about it. I have a sailing
yacht and normally I sail and don't have a chance for a hot water
shower. If I have to use the engine, then I was thinking to have a
chance for a warm shower.
I thought to install the calorifier in parallel with the sea water heat
exchanger and with a 3 way valve. If I install it in series the pressure
drop of the circuit will increase and I will pump less water through the
engine. In parallel I have the possibility to disconnect the calorifier
without influencing the water circuit.

Juan

Juan, standard procedure is to hook it in series. Break the fresh
water cooling return line from the heat exchanger, go through the
calorifier from the heat exchanger then to the return line. No
pressure drop involved, you're simply circulating the water as before.
In fact, it's a good thing because now you've added to the volume of
your fresh cooling water by the amount of the hoses and calorifier.

On our sailing yacht, which is home, 20 minutes of running gives us 6
gal of 180 deg F shower water. Our water heater is well insulated so
we have hot water for about 10 hours or so after shutting the engine
down.

Rick

** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

Rick, then there is no need of an additional thermostatic valve? and the
water flows first through the calorifier and then trough the sea water
heat exchanger? I assume a calorifier has only very little pressure drop
and does not influence the total water flow, is this correct?

I am thinking on a small calorifier like yours, 25 liters or 6 gal,
preparing the boat for a longer cruise as soon as our young daughter
gets 5 years old and before she enter school. Maybe half a year or
longer, maybe to the Caribean..
Juan (Barcelona, Spain)

installing a calorifier
 

On Sun, 12 Oct 2008 21:23:32 +0200, (Juan Bassols)
wrote:

Rick, then there is no need of an additional thermostatic valve? and the
water flows first through the calorifier and then trough the sea water
heat exchanger? I assume a calorifier has only very little pressure drop
and does not influence the total water flow, is this correct?

Yes, no additional thermostat. The regular engine thermostat regulates
the cooling water temperature. The shower water in the calorifier will
be about the same temperature as the cooling water. If your engine
runs at 180 deg F, the calorifier water will be about 180 deg F once
it all equalizes.

No, the water flows first through the heat exchanger and then though
the calorifier. I'm not sure that it really matters. You've got me
curious, but I would think that the water exits the heat exchanger a
bit cooler than the thermostat setting. This would be good because 180
deg hot water is a bit HOT! I'm going to check the temperatures with
my infrared thermometer next weekend when we go to the boat. I'll let
you know.

Anyway, cooling water exits the heat exchanger, goes to the
calorifier, then exits the calorifier to the engine return.

No, doesn't influence the total water flow or very little. Boats have
been using this for at least 50 years or more. It's really just like
in your car, where the cooling water goes though the heater core. Just
about every car manual says to turn the heater on if the engine
overheats to get extra water and a bit more cooling from the airflow
over the heater core.

I am thinking on a small calorifier like yours, 25 liters or 6 gal,
preparing the boat for a longer cruise as soon as our young daughter
gets 5 years old and before she enter school. Maybe half a year or
longer, maybe to the Caribean..
Juan (Barcelona, Spain)

Taking "Navy showers", this is enough for each of us to take a shower,
one right after the other and still have hot water left over to wash
dishes. Of course we usually shower together, but sometimes... :-)

Rick
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

installing a calorifier
 

Rick,
That is backwards. The colrifier must be in the engine return water path,
not the engine feed.
Steve

"Rick Morel" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 12 Oct 2008 21:23:32 +0200, (Juan Bassols)
wrote:

Rick, then there is no need of an additional thermostatic valve? and the
water flows first through the calorifier and then trough the sea water
heat exchanger? I assume a calorifier has only very little pressure drop
and does not influence the total water flow, is this correct?

Yes, no additional thermostat. The regular engine thermostat regulates
the cooling water temperature. The shower water in the calorifier will
be about the same temperature as the cooling water. If your engine
runs at 180 deg F, the calorifier water will be about 180 deg F once
it all equalizes.

No, the water flows first through the heat exchanger and then though
the calorifier. I'm not sure that it really matters. You've got me
curious, but I would think that the water exits the heat exchanger a
bit cooler than the thermostat setting. This would be good because 180
deg hot water is a bit HOT! I'm going to check the temperatures with
my infrared thermometer next weekend when we go to the boat. I'll let
you know.

Anyway, cooling water exits the heat exchanger, goes to the
calorifier, then exits the calorifier to the engine return.

No, doesn't influence the total water flow or very little. Boats have
been using this for at least 50 years or more. It's really just like
in your car, where the cooling water goes though the heater core. Just
about every car manual says to turn the heater on if the engine
overheats to get extra water and a bit more cooling from the airflow
over the heater core.

I am thinking on a small calorifier like yours, 25 liters or 6 gal,
preparing the boat for a longer cruise as soon as our young daughter
gets 5 years old and before she enter school. Maybe half a year or
longer, maybe to the Caribean..
Juan (Barcelona, Spain)

Taking "Navy showers", this is enough for each of us to take a shower,
one right after the other and still have hot water left over to wash
dishes. Of course we usually shower together, but sometimes... :-)

Rick
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

installing a calorifier
 

On Mon, 13 Oct 2008 14:01:16 +0200, "Steve Lusardi"
wrote:

Rick,
That is backwards. The colrifier must be in the engine return water path,
not the engine feed.
Steve

That's what I wrote, in the return. Juan had it backwards and I was
correcting him.

Rick
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

installing a calorifier
 

Rick Morel wrote:

On Mon, 13 Oct 2008 14:01:16 +0200, "Steve Lusardi"
wrote:

Rick,
That is backwards. The colrifier must be in the engine return water path,
not the engine feed.
Steve

That's what I wrote, in the return. Juan had it backwards and I was
correcting him.

Rick
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

Thank you , Rick and Steve :)

installing a calorifier
 

That is backwards. The colrifier must be in the engine return water path,
not the engine feed.

Not so. Calorifier connections can be taken off and returned before
the thermostat housing or either side of the thermostat housing - out
to cal before thermostat and return after, or worst case both after
the thermstat housing. I had a calorifier coil connected the second
way and engine had no problems heating up to correct temp. In fact I
now have a substantial heat exchanger in place of the calorifier so
that the engine heats up the entire CH system - 2 calorifiers and 14
radiators. When I had an airlock in the keel cooling system, engine
cooling was achieved using the radiators.
http://www.luxe-motor-kei.co.uk/inte.../image179.html

installing a calorifier
 

On Mon, 13 Oct 2008 19:11:28 -0700 (PDT), CS
wrote:

Not so. Calorifier connections can be taken off and returned before
the thermostat housing or either side of the thermostat housing - out
to cal before thermostat and return after, or worst case both after
the thermstat housing. I had a calorifier coil connected the second
way and engine had no problems heating up to correct temp. In fact I
now have a substantial heat exchanger in place of the calorifier so
that the engine heats up the entire CH system - 2 calorifiers and 14
radiators. When I had an airlock in the keel cooling system, engine
cooling was achieved using the radiators.

That makes sense. I was going with the "standard" setup as used here
in the US. I would think the cal / water heater should be downstream
of the heat exchanger only to keep the temperature of the heated water
a bit lower.

Logic says it really shouldn't matter which way or even how many as
long as all the goodies are connected in series. The water will
circulate no matter what. I would think the only thing that could
cause a problem would be to go to a smaller hose/tubing that could
cause a restriction.


http://www.luxe-motor-kei.co.uk/inte.../image179.html

WOW! Beautiful job on everything!


** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **