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Amps, etc.
"Richard Casady" wrote in message . .. On Wed, 25 Jul 2007 08:37:20 -0500, "KLC Lewis" wrote: Pete, do you propose using a hydrometer everytime you want to know your state of charge? This could be a couple of times each day, or more. It is, or used to be, the practice on submarines. Not much extra work when you are checking/adding water. The original smart charger was a sub sailor with thermometer, hydrometer, and voltmeter. Who knows what those guys are doing now. Casady That raises another question: Just how often are you supposed to check the water? Once a day? I've been doing it about once a month. |
Amps, etc.
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Amps, etc.
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Amps, etc.
I'm going to try to answer a bunch of questions in the same post, so
am threading it to be under my original post which spawned the Amps discussion. Due to the multiple responses, this is pretty long (surprise! Mine are *never* long :{)) ) From: Lew Hodgett Skip Gundlach wrote: We don't yet know. We're going to do an energy audit, prolly tomorrow, to see just exactly how much each item uses. Add battery capacity, any way you can, it solves a lot of problems including poor alternator performance. Lew We've already got massive batteries. The issue is properly keeping them charged. At 750 nominal (less aging) AH, we can go for a long time with no charge input. But if we don't put in the charge, eventually the biggest battery bank will be flat, even if nothing is drawn from it, out of normal charge dissapation (flooded = ?%/ month)... From: Bob On Jul 23, 8:45 pm, Lew Hodgett wrote: Skip Gundlach wrote: We don't yet know. We're gong to do an energy audit, prolly tomorrow, to see just exactly how much each item uses. Add battery capacity, any way you can, it solves a lot of problems including poor alternator performance. Lew There is another path............. reduce load = smaller house bank, smaller battery charger, smaller alt, less engine running, quiter, cooler, also less things to fix! Bigger aint always better. My 400 Ah house bank is huge............... for me :) We will be carefully monitoring our use once we get our audit finished. We *believe* (time will tell) that we'll have ample charging available for the uses we need to put our load to. From: Bob On Jul 23, 8:00 pm, Skip Gundlach wrote: On Jul 23, 12:59 pm, Bob wrote: Hi Skip: Do you have a way to determin a battery's level of charge? Battery Monitor? Hydrometer? Bob Actually, all of the above: We have a TriMetric 2020 monitor, by Bogart Engineering, which provides a lot of information. Volts, amps in or out, state of charge in percentage terms are all front-and-center. Menus allow time from equalization, AH left, current state of AH up or down in numerical terms, time from and what is low and high (two separate measures), and so on. Our controller for the KISS wind generator (in addition to the on/off control of the generator itself) is a Xantrex 40A unit. When it's piping outside, we can get close to 30A before the internal controls shut down, but it doesn't start producing meaningful amps until ~15knots (designed for the Caribbean market). It's whisper quiet in our setup; YMMV dependent on how well you balance the blades. At full charge, that controller diverts to a heat strip setup, required because our water heater wouldn't accept the dual voltage unit where we used to send overcharging before we replaced the water heater. We have not yet installed (because we can't find where we stored them) an incandescent monitor lamp so that if that's happening we can hurry and turn on charging loads for AC devices, taking advantage of the overstock of amps. Our controller for the 370W of high-voltage Solar is a Blue Sky 6024H MPPT, which provides as much as 30% more than the rated values of our panels. At 9AM in Charleston, we typically show 12-15A, and at best, sometimes as much as 25A in mid-day. That controller just turns off the load (open- circuits the panels, I think is what's happening) when they're full. It also has an equalizer button, but with 750AH, it's unlikely we'll ever see enough amperage to actually accomplish that, even connected to shore power. We also have a battery conditioner attached - it uses the battery's own power to pulse, helping prevent/minimize sulphation. The very long- cycle charge regime of the solar and wind has meant that we very rarely see less than "full" on the monitor. Making sure we see above 13V nearly all the time we're not running huge loads is the bigger deal... Our new shoreside battery charger is a Xantrex TrueCharge40A unit. We have 4 L16H in series/parallel 12V, plus the windlass and starter batteries separated on an isolator. The shore charger, plus whatever solar and wind input has occurred since the TC40 installation has brought us back to full, with SGs previously in the 1.250 range to over 1.265 in all cells and no large variance (65, 65, 70, 75, 75, 75, 85, 80, 90, 80, 75, 75 in the 12 cells) either from cell to cell or in individual batteries. We have no remaining halogen bulbs (haven't taken out the foredeck light; might be one in there) due to their current draw. All on board lighting is either fluorescent or LED, outside is either LED or the afore-debated incandescent running/steaming lights left so because of "all the current available during engine operation" - which I may have to re- evaluate... From: Lew Hodgett Bob wrote: There is another path............. reduce load = smaller house bank, smaller battery charger, smaller alt, less engine running, quiter, cooler, also less things to fix! Bigger aint always better. My 400 Ah house bank is huge............... for me :) As long as you remember that you must replace 125AH for every 100AH consumed and the max sustained recharge rate is 15% of the battery bank AH capacity. Being realistic, over time, electrical consumption will increase, not decrease. These days, minimalists are few and far between. Heh. Guilty as charged (pardon the expression). But, we believed that we provided for that in our initial design. It proved that we were dependent on a charging source (the prior 70A NewMar beast) which wasn't happening. We'd not have behaved as we did onshore, at the hook. That we discovered our alternator simultaneous problem, we feel, now that it's corrected (more below), that the shore and engine charging parts are up to snuff. From: Skip, I strongly suggest that you get a digital voltmeter with at least one decimil place readout and wire it into your system. Use a selector switch so that you can read the voltage of any battery bank. It is priceless for monitoring what is going on with the electrons. The one I have is a LED readout so it is easy to see at night. You can use it to check everything - charging? It will climb up to about 14.4 volts and then drop off to about 13.6, or if you are using a manual charger you can monitor voltages and switch the charger at the appropriate time. How much power are your nav lights using just switch them on and check the voltage. Ho! Ho! Turned the lights on and the voltage driopped 0.1 volts at 12.7 volts. A little math and you know how much power yout lights draw. We have such a meter, but have not wired it in. It's part of a multimeter that I use all the time. It's what I used to determine that the alternator shop had mis-ended (male instead of female) the tach lead on the new 94A unit. OTOH, we have a pretty good one in the TriMetric, also digital, with 10ths in both amps and volts. We keep an eagle eye on it... When we put in the new alternator, we (with a full battery bank) shut off the shore charger, turned on the inverter, and loaded up absolutely everything we could on the boat. Inverter with all the electrical stuff we could find (two computers, all the charging equipment for handhelds, three fans, etc.). Every single instrument and light, in and out. All the pumps rated for continuous duty, with salt and fresh water taps left open. All the AC and DC fans, engine room and otherwise. The one single remaining incandescent wall fixture. The fuel polisher and reefer, etc. We managed to create just under 50A of load. Short of transmitting on the SSB/Ham (we did it in standby, for only 2A), that's the worst it can possibly get with no outside input. Of course, letting it go like that, for an extended period of time, even with the capacity of our bank, would be very hard on the battery were there no input. So, after letting it consume about 15AH (per the TriMetric), we cranked up the alternator. WhoooEEEE! The meter went from -48 to +40, and slowly started to come down. The battery voltage, which, by now, had been down to about 12.1 due to all the drop, steadily climbed. It quite quickly reached well over 13, and kept climbing. Of course, that's also way more drop than we'd likely get before we did something about the load, but it was very reassuring to see that not only could we sustain that load at about 1500RPM, but put as much back in as our shore power charger would in a no-load situation. So, once we'd proven the point, we shut down most of the loads other than the computers which were both on (connected to shorepower otherwise), and saw the voltage immediately charge rate climb, level off, and then start to taper. We got to 14.4 and things started to calm down. Having proven *that* point, we shut it down to keep the temps in the boat somewhat reasonable, and reconnected the shore power. The batteries were recovered (14.4, then equalibrium at 13.3, with the shore power cycling occasionally, and the solar cycling in and out as well, providing ~10A at that time of day, when it wasn't full. Significantly, the radar didn't drop out when we started the engine, whereas it always had before. Seatrialing the instruments is next, but I'm convinced that our problems will either be entirely, or mostly, resolved with the proper application of power. As it is, my freezer is well under spec, running so fast that the evaporator briefly acts as a cold plate, resulting in an under-temp spec (it comes up relatively quickly to the set temp), where we've been struggling to keep it under freezing, let alone the 4 or 5 it is now (set point 8, 2* hysteresis). From: Pete C On Jul 24, 5:46 am, Bob wrote: On Jul 23, 8:00 pm, Skip Gundlach wrote: On Jul 23, 12:59 pm, Bob wrote: Hi Skip: Do you have a way to determin a battery's level of charge? Battery Monitor? Hydrometer? Bob Somehow I think Skip would prefer to spend time writing lengthy cruising blogs, than learning about S.G. levels... =) Hm. How many times do I have to sample to earn my merit badge? In 5 days I've been in Charleston, I've done it 3 times. :{)) From: RW Salnick Jeff brought forth on stone tablets: BTW, I agree about the DVM, its essential on any boat that has more than a minimal electrical system. Better yet is an Amp-hour meter, certainly pricey but worth every penny if you have larger loads, such as a fridge, and tend to live off-grid. I second the comment that you need a way to monitor amp-hours in and out of your batteries - it is the only real "fuel gauge" for batteries that there is. And it is essential if you are not living plugged into shore power. We have a Link 2000 and I absolutely love it. I *think* I have such in the TriMetric... That ought to hold us for a while. I'd bother the librarian but Lydia would complain - and, besides, I'd rather write :{)) Well, no. I'm changing my tag line on the skype and googlechats to "I'm in the engine room, but try anyway - I may hear it" - it used to be that I was in the bilge. Hands, please, for those who have spent more than 100 hours in their engine rooms in the last month - I have - in addition to doing the research and running around to fix those things which have cropped up (Roger, I know you qualified last year)... PS to Geoff - has the above eased your concerns about our instruments? It's why we're still here... L8R Skip Morgan 461 #2 SV Flying Pig KI4MPC See our galleries at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery ! Follow us at http://groups.google.com/group/flyingpiglog and/or http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFlyingPigLog "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover." - Mark Twain |
Amps, etc.
Skip Gundlach wrote:
We've already got massive batteries. The issue is properly keeping them charged. At 750 nominal (less aging) AH, we can go for a long time with no charge input. A 750AH bank will require an alternator that can put out about 110A-115A at engine idle to properly recharge them. This will require a dual belt drive such as is required to drive a Leece-Neville machine. If you don't need a dual belt drive with your present alternator, you have the wrong alternator. If you discharge this bank by 40%, you have consumed 300AH which must be replaced with 1.25*300 = 375 AH. To replace 375 AH you will require 375/115 = 3.3 hours of engine time. It ain't rocket science. Nobody said wet cell batteries were efficient, but they are mobile. Yes I must confess. In my misspent youth, worked on the engineering team that designed the great-great-great-great-grandfather of the L/N 4800. Lew |
Amps, etc.
On Jul 25, 10:39 pm, Lew Hodgett wrote:
Skip Gundlach wrote: We've already got massive batteries. The issue is properly keeping them charged. At 750 nominal (less aging) AH, we can go for a long time with no charge input. A 750AH bank will require an alternator that can put out about 110A-115A at engine idle to properly recharge them. This will require a dual belt drive such as is required to drive a Leece-Neville machine. If you don't need a dual belt drive with your present alternator, you have the wrong alternator. If you discharge this bank by 40%, you have consumed 300AH which must be replaced with 1.25*300 = 375 AH. To replace 375 AH you will require 375/115 = 3.3 hours of engine time. It ain't rocket science. Nobody said wet cell batteries were efficient, but they are mobile. Yes I must confess. In my misspent youth, worked on the engineering team that designed the great-great-great-great-grandfather of the L/N 4800. Lew Hi, Lew, and thanks for the expansion. We have as a target of never letting our batteries get below 75% - and only rarely below 90%. Recent excitement aside, we've succeeded in that. Our original tests of relying solely on solar and wind (last year, on the hard), for 6 months, went very well. Of course, we didn't have the same wind as normally seen in the water, and also didn't run instruments, offsetting that. Our solar and wind were calculated to provide somewhere between 150 low and 300 high AH/Day on average. Continuously cloudy (well, raining - it was completely overcast here at 5 and we were still getting 12A from the solar), windless days will throw that off, of course. However, we watch that meter like a hawk, and having had a bit of training about the interface of volts and amps as to what's happening in there, believe we'll be better managers than before. If we were dependent on our engine alternator entirely for recharging, we'd prolly do something different. However, as backup, but aboard for our use of power tools in strange countries, as well as our hookah rig, we have a 2000w Honda much bruited about here on other occasions. Were it necessary while on the hook, likely we'd start that before the diesel, solely for charging. However, of course, having just slain the dragon of no effective alternator power (and shore charging, too, but we expect that to be so infrequent as to be unworthy of mention other than as powered by a Honda if needed), we have no track record to fall back on. Stay tuned as we live on the hook and under way in the next few weeks... L8R Skip Morgan 461 #2 SV Flying Pig KI4MPC See our galleries at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery ! Follow us at http://groups.google.com/group/flyingpiglog and/or http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFlyingPigLog "You are never given a wish without also being given the power to make it come true. You may have to work for it however." (and) "There is no such thing as a problem without a gift for you in its hands. You seek problems because you need their gifts." (Richard Bach, in The Reluctant Messiah) |
Amps, etc.
Skip Gundlach wrote in
oups.com: The meter went from -48 to +40, and slowly started to come down. The battery voltage, which, by now, had been down to about 12.1 due to all the drop, steadily climbed. It quite quickly reached well over 13, and kept climbing. POWER is our FRIEND! Larry -- Transportation and Support S/V "Flying Pig" Ask Skip how a Mercedes runs on old frying oil...(c; |
Amps, etc.
Lew Hodgett wrote in news:1QTpi.12042$zA4.313
@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net: To replace 375 AH you will require 375/115 = 3.3 hours of engine time. A pipe dream of battery chemistry. 375AH requires 5 hours (from 50% discharge, not zero) at 38A, not 115. Batteries charge at 10% of AH rating, not 30, if you want to convert the electrolyte, giving it time for circulation. The two batteries will recharge from 50% very nicely at moderate temperature at 75A for 5 hours on the new 90A alternator. NO battery will charge at 115A for very long before the interplate electrolyte has been converted faster than it can be replaced by convection in the electrolyte. This is why you see the current drop in the first place....NOT because it has become charged. After the initial current blast has reconverted lead sulphate into acid, that acid must move out of the way to be replaced by more lead sulphate ions convecting in from below by the heat of charging. There's quite a circulation. Charging too fast, say at 115A trying to force it fast, only results in the conversion of H2O into hydrogen gas and lead oxide, that violent gas bubbling it's doing at high charger currents, once the initial lead sulphate to sulfuric acid conversion has wained on the initial blast. I suppose we could build a magnetic drive circulator pump into the bottom of the cells under the plates and you could charge the hell out of it, then.... Larry -- Charging takes time.....the more time, the better. |
Amps, etc.
Larry wrote in
: Lew Hodgett wrote in news:1QTpi.12042$zA4.313 @newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net: To replace 375 AH you will require 375/115 = 3.3 hours of engine time. A pipe dream of battery chemistry. 375AH requires 5 hours (from 50% discharge, not zero) at 38A, not 115. Batteries charge at 10% of AH rating, not 30, if you want to convert the electrolyte, giving it time for circulation. The two batteries will recharge from 50% very nicely at moderate temperature at 75A for 5 hours on the new 90A alternator. NO battery will charge at 115A for very long before the interplate electrolyte has been converted faster than it can be replaced by convection in the electrolyte. This is why you see the current drop in the first place....NOT because it has become charged. After the initial current blast has reconverted lead sulphate into acid, that acid must move out of the way to be replaced by more lead sulphate ions convecting in from below by the heat of charging. There's quite a circulation. Charging too fast, say at 115A trying to force it fast, only results in the conversion of H2O into hydrogen gas and lead oxide, that violent gas bubbling it's doing at high charger currents, once the initial lead sulphate to sulfuric acid conversion has wained on the initial blast. I suppose we could build a magnetic drive circulator pump into the bottom of the cells under the plates and you could charge the hell out of it, then.... Larry Lew, try a little experiment to showcase my assertion: Charge like hell until the voltage rises up and shut her down with NO LOAD on the batteries. Wait 30 minutes. Charged batteries will still be charged and immediately draw little current at float voltage. Crank the alternator-from-hell back up and watch the current....It'll go back to hard charging at lower-than-float voltage because the convection in the electrolyte has replaced the supercharged electrolyte with uncharged electrolyte to continue the replating process. The current will drop and voltage will repeat its rise charging this hard as electrolyte, once again, becomes saturated before convection takes place. You can repeat the phenomenon over and over with no load on the battery between charges. Once the cells are TRULY charged, there will be a small current when charging starts, but the voltage will already be high putting charging in float mode almost immediately. Larry -- SLOWLY.....we recharge SLOWLY..... |
Amps, etc.
Larry wrote:
A pipe dream of battery chemistry. 375AH requires 5 hours (from 50% discharge, not zero) at 38A, not 115. Batteries charge at 10% of AH rating, not 30, if you want to convert the electrolyte, giving it time for circulation. Spoken with the vision of a person with his head squarely placed where the moon doesn't shine. Plonk Lew |
Amps, etc.
On Wed, 25 Jul 2007 10:35:06 -0700, Pete C
wrote: Hi, If you're able to use a hydrometer, this FAQ tells how to relate battery 'SG' to state of charge: http://www.batteryfaq.org/ http://jgdarden.com/batteryfaq/carfaq4.htm http://jgdarden.com/batteryfaq/carfaq4.htm#soc Bear in mind 'state of charge' isn't a percentage of the battery's *rated* capacity, as they lose capacity as they get old or sulphated. State of charge is a percentage of the *actual* capacity of the battery, taking into account it's age and condition. To work out the actual capacity you need to compare the drop in state of charge to a known amount of charge used. So if drawing 1 amp for 10 hours (10 'amp hours') from a battery makes it's state of charge drop by 25%, the actual capacity is about 40 amp hours when it's fully charged. If the above battery then reads a 75% state of charge, then approximately 30 amp hours of charge are available until it's completely flat. (Though of course it should be recharged when the state of charge is around 50% or less) If the above is a bit too then try and get someone to explain it to you in person as it's a little difficult to do in a short posting. hope this helps, Pete. Sorry Pete I cannot relate to the above, it is a far too simplistic. Here in the UK and I feel also in the US battery capacity is normally quoted at a 20hour rate. Therefore in the example offered above - 1A for 10hrs giving a 25% drop in "State of Charge" the actual original battery capacity would have been more like 35AH given a Peukert of 1.25 Ok I realise that you used the term "about" but we are talking major % differences here. To put the test another way are you saying that if the load had been 100ma for 100hours = 10amp hours your conclusions would have been the same? I would then suggest the battery's max capacity would have been 22Ah. -- Richard Nb "Pound Eater" Parkend G+S "Governments are like Nappies, they should be changed often." (For the same reason) |
Amps, etc.
On Wed, 25 Jul 2007 08:17:40 -0700, Pete C
wrote: On Jul 25, 2:37 pm, "KLC Lewis" wrote: "Pete C" wrote in message Pete, do you propose using a hydrometer everytime you want to know your state of charge? This could be a couple of times each day, or more. Hi, For those who know a bit about electrics and can use a hydrometer I would propose: Do an energy budget/audit. Size the battery bank for 40% DoD (depth of discharge) on a normal days/period of use Use the hydro to verify the above a few times as well as check the batts are getting fully charged. Use the hydro to check a few times that an exceptional days/period of demand doesn't draw the batts below 80% DoD Comments??? 99% of my customers would not know what a hydrometer was 99% of my customers have no idea what their audit is 70% do not care 30% want to be able to look at something to tell them whether to charge or not cheers, Pete. -- Richard Nb "Pound Eater" Parkend G+S "Governments are like Nappies, they should be changed often." (For the same reason) |
Amps, etc.
On Wed, 25 Jul 2007 11:04:43 -0500, "KLC Lewis"
wrote: "Pete C" wrote in message roups.com... On Jul 25, 2:37 pm, "KLC Lewis" wrote: "Pete C" wrote in message Pete, do you propose using a hydrometer everytime you want to know your state of charge? This could be a couple of times each day, or more. Hi, For those who know a bit about electrics and can use a hydrometer I would propose: Do an energy budget/audit. Size the battery bank for 40% DoD (depth of discharge) on a normal days/period of use Use the hydro to verify the above a few times as well as check the batts are getting fully charged. Use the hydro to check a few times that an exceptional days/period of demand doesn't draw the batts below 80% DoD Comments??? cheers, Pete. My own energy needs are quite modest. Nav instruments, VHF, stereo, running and anchor lights, computer (laptop), the occasional cabin light for short periods (converting to led units). No refer, no power windlass. Of course, I do need to be able to start-up the iron genny from time to time. My battery bank is 4 new-this-seasonTrojan T-105's and a 40 amp smart charger for dockside use. 2 US32 solar panels rated at 64 watts. Voltmeter always reads "top of the green" at 13 volts after dockside charging, bottom middle of the green after sailing for a day and anchoring out overnight with the anchor light lit. Engine starts right up like it has a fully-charged battery when weighing anchor in the morning. But translating this to "how much power do I have left?" leaves me paranoid. And you have 450AH available ;-) I have customers who live on their boat with less than that! Paranoid is a bit OTT but aware is sensible. -- Richard Nb "Pound Eater" Parkend G+S "Governments are like Nappies, they should be changed often." (For the same reason) |
Amps, etc.
* Larry wrote, On 7/26/2007 12:36 AM:
Lew Hodgett wrote in news:1QTpi.12042$zA4.313 @newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net: To replace 375 AH you will require 375/115 = 3.3 hours of engine time. A pipe dream of battery chemistry. 375AH requires 5 hours (from 50% discharge, not zero) at 38A, not 115. Batteries charge at 10% of AH rating, not 30, if you want to convert the electrolyte, giving it time for circulation. You've made this assertion many times, and its still completely false. Or possibly, I have magic batteries. I have 4 Trojan T-105's for a total of 450 Amp-hours. The 110 Amp alternator, controlled by a Link 2000R generally charges at about 90 Amps, slowly dropping to around 75. At that point, its around 80% full. Continuing to charge, it goes down to 50, when I figure its close to 90%. The first set of batteries last 6 years, and were really killed by a sever winter. The new set is on its third year. BTW, I don't have double belts, but I cook at least one year. |
Amps, etc.
Larry wrote in
: A pipe dream of battery chemistry. 375AH requires 5 hours (from 50% discharge, not zero) at 38A, not 115. Batteries charge at 10% of AH rating, not 30, if you want to convert the electrolyte, giving it time for circulation. I note that my batteries (2 Caterpillar 153-5720 8Ds) are speced at a max charging rate of 5% of their CCA, which is 1500 A. That works out to 75 A. Each of the batteries have a rating of 210 AH, which based upon Larry's math, would be 21 Amps, or 42A for both of them. That said, this whole discussion doesn't make a lot of sense to me. I watch my 3 stage regulator charging rates, and it spends very little time charging at full throttle. When initially turned on, the charger goes into bulk charging mode and attempts to get the charging voltage up to the bulk charging voltage. This voltage depends upon the battery temperature and I have a thermocouple which sends the battery temperature back to the charger. I've specified a temperature coefficient in the charger (which is specified in mV/degree C) and as the battery gets warmer, the bulk charging voltage drops. Anyhow, I try not to let my batteries get below 12.5V. When I charge the batteries I see my charger outputting at its maximum charge rate (110A) for about 15 minutes and then it typically has reached the bulk charging voltage. Then the charging rate drops as it maintains that voltage. My typical charging cycle runs for about 1 hour, and at the end of that hour I'm only outputting about 20A. It will take several more hours for the rate to drop to 0. Thus, this talk about charging at some rediculously high rate for X hours doesn't seem to have much to do with real charging systems -- GEoff |
Amps, etc.
Lew Hodgett wrote in news:FPWpi.11839$Od7.10372
@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net: Larry wrote: A pipe dream of battery chemistry. 375AH requires 5 hours (from 50% discharge, not zero) at 38A, not 115. Batteries charge at 10% of AH rating, not 30, if you want to convert the electrolyte, giving it time for circulation. Spoken with the vision of a person with his head squarely placed where the moon doesn't shine. Plonk Lew Sorry you feel that way. Telling them they can recharge by shoving current like hell into it in 3 hours is still a pipe dream. Larry -- While in Mexico, I didn't have to press 1 for Spanish. While in Iran, I didn't have to press 1 for Farsi, either. While in Florida, I had to press 2 for English. It just isn't fair. |
Amps, etc.
Geoff Schultz wrote in
: I note that my batteries (2 Caterpillar 153-5720 8Ds) are speced at a max charging rate of 5% of their CCA, which is 1500 A. That works out to 75 A. Each of the batteries have a rating of 210 AH, which based upon Larry's math, would be 21 Amps, or 42A for both of them. That said, this whole discussion doesn't make a lot of sense to me. I watch my 3 stage regulator charging rates, and it spends very little time charging at full throttle. When initially turned on, the charger goes into bulk charging mode and attempts to get the charging voltage up to the bulk charging voltage. This voltage depends upon the battery temperature and I have a thermocouple which sends the battery temperature back to the charger. I've specified a temperature coefficient in the charger (which is specified in mV/degree C) and as the battery gets warmer, the bulk charging voltage drops. The 3-stage charger bulk charges the initial load of electrolyte between the plates that WILL take a tremendous current and charge with it until it has been converted back to acid and replated the lead. Then, as you say, it drops back to give the battery time to recover its electrolyte by convection back between the plates with a much lower charge current (stage 2) after the voltage rises from the recharge I alluded to in stage 1. State 2, a more sedate charge rate that prevents you from warping the plates with 100+ amps by melting them, possibly causing a short/explosion, continues unabated with short periods of zero current for charge testing, then turns back on until the test period voltage remains higher than the natural voltage of the cells, indicating nearly full charge. It then switches to stage 3 which is a very slow topping off charge. Investigating Lew's 115A at 14V massive charge for 3 hours shows 115 X 14V = 1,610 watts being shoved into the battery. At first, this will be absorbed a lot by the chemical reaction converting back to acid. But, as the charge between the plates quickly completes and he goes into the gassing phase converting his water into hydrogen, this power starts being turned into heat, heating the electrolyte and plates, which are soft to begin with, an possibly, probably, warping the plate structure, especially if the cells aren't straight up vertical, such as being heeled over with sail aloft of sloshing about in the waves. 1,610 watts is a lot of DC power to pour through a rubber or plastic case...and will not just go off easily sealed away in those tight battery boxes that insulate the battery from any air cooling....making the heating problem worse. He didn't want to hear my sad story, so I hope the rest of you will think about what I'm saying before the big bang coats your boat with acid....not a pretty sight at all! Larry -- Cursing me won't change physics or chemistry..... |
Amps, etc.
On Jul 26, 7:51 am, Electricky Dicky wrote:
Sorry Pete I cannot relate to the above, it is a far too simplistic. Here in the UK and I feel also in the US battery capacity is normally quoted at a 20hour rate. Therefore in the example offered above - 1A for 10hrs giving a 25% drop in "State of Charge" the actual original battery capacity would have been more like 35AH given a Peukert of 1.25 Ok I realise that you used the term "about" but we are talking major % differences here. Very good point, to get a good comparison of actual to rated capacity you'd need to discharge at a 20hr rate. So for a 40Ah battery this would be 40(Ah)/20(hours) = 2 amps. cheers, Pete. |
Amps, etc.
On Jul 26, 7:58 am, Electricky Dicky wrote:
On Wed, 25 Jul 2007 08:17:40 -0700, Pete C wrote: For those who know a bit about electrics and can use a hydrometer I would propose [stuff snipped....] 99% of my customers would not know what a hydrometer was 99% of my customers have no idea what their audit is 70% do not care 30% want to be able to look at something to tell them whether to charge or not Exactly! E-X-A-C-T-L-Y! If they knew a bit about electrics and could use a hydrometer, they wouldn't be your customer, as they woundn't need professional help, would they? cheers, Pete. |
Amps, etc.
"Pete C" wrote in message ps.com... On Jul 26, 7:58 am, Electricky Dicky wrote: On Wed, 25 Jul 2007 08:17:40 -0700, Pete C wrote: For those who know a bit about electrics and can use a hydrometer I would propose [stuff snipped....] 99% of my customers would not know what a hydrometer was 99% of my customers have no idea what their audit is 70% do not care 30% want to be able to look at something to tell them whether to charge or not Exactly! E-X-A-C-T-L-Y! If they knew a bit about electrics and could use a hydrometer, they wouldn't be your customer, as they woundn't need professional help, would they? cheers, Pete. It takes me about 10 - 15 minutes to check all of the cells in my bank. This is with the boat sitting calmly at the dock. I would much prefer not to have to open those cells with the boat in motion, sloshing battery acid around. If a meter will give me reasonably accurate information, which I can verify from time to time with a physical check of the electrolyte when it can be done safely, so much the better. |
Amps, etc.
On Jul 26, 3:52 pm, "KLC Lewis" wrote:
It takes me about 10 - 15 minutes to check all of the cells in my bank. This is with the boat sitting calmly at the dock. I would much prefer not to have to open those cells with the boat in motion, sloshing battery acid around. If a meter will give me reasonably accurate information, which I can verify from time to time with a physical check of the electrolyte when it can be done safely, so much the better. Well, buy a Smartguage then! :) cheers, Pete. |
Amps, etc.
"Pete C" wrote in message ups.com... On Jul 26, 3:52 pm, "KLC Lewis" wrote: It takes me about 10 - 15 minutes to check all of the cells in my bank. This is with the boat sitting calmly at the dock. I would much prefer not to have to open those cells with the boat in motion, sloshing battery acid around. If a meter will give me reasonably accurate information, which I can verify from time to time with a physical check of the electrolyte when it can be done safely, so much the better. Well, buy a Smartguage then! :) cheers, Pete. I've been looking at them. Can't find a US source on the internet. Also looking at the Xantrex Link 10. Part of me says that since it takes more wires to hook up and uses a shunt, its information should be more accurate. The other part just says, "duhhhhhhhh" |
Amps, etc.
Pete C wrote:
On Jul 26, 3:52 pm, "KLC Lewis" wrote: It takes me about 10 - 15 minutes to check all of the cells in my bank. This is with the boat sitting calmly at the dock. I would much prefer not to have to open those cells with the boat in motion, sloshing battery acid around. If a meter will give me reasonably accurate information, which I can verify from time to time with a physical check of the electrolyte when it can be done safely, so much the better. Well, buy a Smartguage then! :) Can't a person extrapolate state of charge with a simple voltmeter? Stephen |
Amps, etc.
"Stephen Trapani" wrote in message ... Pete C wrote: On Jul 26, 3:52 pm, "KLC Lewis" wrote: It takes me about 10 - 15 minutes to check all of the cells in my bank. This is with the boat sitting calmly at the dock. I would much prefer not to have to open those cells with the boat in motion, sloshing battery acid around. If a meter will give me reasonably accurate information, which I can verify from time to time with a physical check of the electrolyte when it can be done safely, so much the better. Well, buy a Smartguage then! :) Can't a person extrapolate state of charge with a simple voltmeter? Stephen From all the websites I've been looking at, it would appear that each company's product is the only one that works. But as I understand it, voltage tells you how much potential for doing work is there, but it won't tell you for how long that work can be done. |
Amps, etc.
On Wed, 25 Jul 2007 18:19:56 -0500, "KLC Lewis"
wrote: "Richard Casady" wrote in message .. . On Wed, 25 Jul 2007 08:37:20 -0500, "KLC Lewis" wrote: Pete, do you propose using a hydrometer everytime you want to know your state of charge? This could be a couple of times each day, or more. It is, or used to be, the practice on submarines. Not much extra work when you are checking/adding water. The original smart charger was a sub sailor with thermometer, hydrometer, and voltmeter. Who knows what those guys are doing now. Casady That raises another question: Just how often are you supposed to check the water? Once a day? I've been doing it about once a month. If they never need much water, you are doing fine. If you are seeing the plates, add water more often. The sub guys would give them a deep discharge, and then recharge them at as high a rate as temperature allowed. Three engines on the battery and one on propulsion was not rare. Most of a full charge in two hours or so. If I recall correctly, some european boats have been built with water cooled batteries, Casady |
Amps, etc.
"Richard Casady" wrote in message ... On Wed, 25 Jul 2007 18:19:56 -0500, "KLC Lewis" wrote: That raises another question: Just how often are you supposed to check the water? Once a day? I've been doing it about once a month. If they never need much water, you are doing fine. If you are seeing the plates, add water more often. The sub guys would give them a deep discharge, and then recharge them at as high a rate as temperature allowed. Three engines on the battery and one on propulsion was not rare. Most of a full charge in two hours or so. If I recall correctly, some european boats have been built with water cooled batteries, Casady I must be doing something right, then. :-) |
Amps, etc.
On Jul 26, 4:29 pm, Stephen Trapani wrote:
Can't a person extrapolate state of charge with a simple voltmeter? Good point, you can, with a few caveats which are covered by the battery FAQ I posted a link to. I'd probably use the voltmeter as a rough and ready guide on a day to day basis, and a hydro now and then to verify it. Cross referring the two could be pretty useful. cheers, Pete. |
Amps, etc.
On Thu, 26 Jul 2007 10:13:20 -0500, "KLC Lewis"
wrote: "Pete C" wrote in message oups.com... On Jul 26, 3:52 pm, "KLC Lewis" wrote: It takes me about 10 - 15 minutes to check all of the cells in my bank. This is with the boat sitting calmly at the dock. I would much prefer not to have to open those cells with the boat in motion, sloshing battery acid around. If a meter will give me reasonably accurate information, which I can verify from time to time with a physical check of the electrolyte when it can be done safely, so much the better. Well, buy a Smartguage then! :) cheers, Pete. I've been looking at them. Can't find a US source on the internet. Also looking at the Xantrex Link 10. Part of me says that since it takes more wires to hook up and uses a shunt, its information should be more accurate. The other part just says, "duhhhhhhhh" Give the part of you that say's duhhhhhh a beer and tell him to go sit in the corner whilst the brighter bit of you reads the Smartgauge website. Chris Gibson tells it the way it is. If I fit an amp hour counter on a boat with a year old bank, what do I set the bank capacity at? What value should the customer reset it to in a years time? Now go have a beer and let duhhhhh take over, his answers are just as valid as yours ;-) And if those settings are not valid - garbage in - garbage out!!!!! -- Richard Nb "Pound Eater" Parkend G+S "Governments are like Nappies, they should be changed often." (For the same reason) |
Amps, etc.
"Electricky Dicky" wrote in message ... On Thu, 26 Jul 2007 10:13:20 -0500, "KLC Lewis" wrote: I've been looking at them. Can't find a US source on the internet. Also looking at the Xantrex Link 10. Part of me says that since it takes more wires to hook up and uses a shunt, its information should be more accurate. The other part just says, "duhhhhhhhh" Give the part of you that say's duhhhhhh a beer and tell him to go sit in the corner whilst the brighter bit of you reads the Smartgauge website. Chris Gibson tells it the way it is. If I fit an amp hour counter on a boat with a year old bank, what do I set the bank capacity at? What value should the customer reset it to in a years time? Now go have a beer and let duhhhhh take over, his answers are just as valid as yours ;-) And if those settings are not valid - garbage in - garbage out!!!!! -- Richard Nb "Pound Eater" Parkend G+S "Governments are like Nappies, they should be changed often." (For the same reason) Well, I've read over the Smartguage site, and find it rather informative in many areas. But other sites, selling other products, seem to indicate that without a shunt so that the meter can read ALL current into and out of the bank, the meter can't tell what's really going on. I don't find anything on the Smartguage site that says how their meter can do it without a shunt, and with only two wires connected directly to the battery bank. Karin |
Amps, etc.
In article ,
Stephen Trapani wrote: Pete C wrote: On Jul 26, 3:52 pm, "KLC Lewis" wrote: It takes me about 10 - 15 minutes to check all of the cells in my bank. This is with the boat sitting calmly at the dock. I would much prefer not to have to open those cells with the boat in motion, sloshing battery acid around. If a meter will give me reasonably accurate information, which I can verify from time to time with a physical check of the electrolyte when it can be done safely, so much the better. Well, buy a Smartguage then! :) Can't a person extrapolate state of charge with a simple voltmeter? Stephen It can be done, IF you have charactorized you battery cells before hand, and have a good running record of SG vs Voltage on a per cell basis. Other than that you just "Guesstimating", and that is about as accurate as a DartBoard....... Bruce in alaska -- add a 2 before @ |
Amps, etc.
Skip Gundlach wrote:
We have as a target of never letting our batteries get below 75% - and only rarely below 90%. Trying to get the recharge above 90% will require a lot of time and vaporize a lot of electrolyte. Consider cycling between 70%-90%. Much easier to accomplish with less wear and tear on the equipment. Our solar and wind were calculated to provide somewhere between 150 low and 300 high AH/Day on average. Continuously cloudy (well, raining - it was completely overcast here at 5 and we were still getting 12A from the solar), windless days will throw that off, of course. However, we watch that meter like a hawk, and having had a bit of training about the interface of volts and amps as to what's happening in there, believe we'll be better managers than before. Not a fan of wind, far too much noise. Much prefer solar and so will your neighbors in an anchorage. Unless you can mount at least 100 sq ft of solar, you are still going to need a good alternator. Do yourself a favor. Get a copy of the performance curve (AMP v RPM) for your unit and check the output @ 3,000 alternator RPM. This should be the "hot" not the "cold" rating curve. If it is the "cold" rating, deduct 20%. You can now get a handle on your energy audit. Without an honest alternator output value, you are flying blind. However, as backup, but aboard for our use of power tools in strange countries, as well as our hookah rig, we have a 2000w Honda much bruited about here on other occasions. Were it necessary while on the hook, likely we'd start that before the diesel, solely for charging. No comment. Keep in mind a dedicated 10W solar panel will keep the starting battery charged. No need to make life complicated. Lew |
Amps, etc.
On Thu, 26 Jul 2007 00:17:18 +0000, Larry wrote:
(Richard Casady) wrote in : It is, or used to be, the practice on submarines. Naw.....We check on the control rods, now....(c; Actually the nuke boats have a battery, and, to charge it an engine half the size of the four in a WWII boat. Something to get the reactor started after a shutdown. Able to push the boat maybe three knots. There is a retractable electric motor, maybe 300 horsepower worth. Casady |
Amps, etc.
On Thu, 26 Jul 2007 01:51:23 -0000, Skip Gundlach
wrote: We've already got massive batteries. The issue is properly keeping them charged. At 750 nominal (less aging) AH, we can go for a long time with no charge input. But if we don't put in the charge, eventually the biggest battery bank will be flat, even if nothing is drawn from it, out of normal charge dissapation (flooded = ?%/ month)... To recharge 750 AH in a reasonable length of time you need a 3 stage charging source of 150 to 200 amps (25% of capacity). Don't let Larry tell you anything different. Wiring of appropriate size is also required of course. If you had a generator you could do that the way we do - use the charger half of a high powered inverter/charger. Since you don't, you will need a seriously high powered alternator with an external regulator. An alternator of 200 amp capacity will typically be a large frame Leece-Neville, require two drive belts, and quite possibly some custom work on your engine drive sheaves and alternator mount. All of this is not cheap of course, and it will take some shopping around just to find someone qualified to do the work. Nothing less is going to get the job done however. |
Amps, etc.
On Thu, 26 Jul 2007 03:35:18 -0000, Skip Gundlach
wrote: We have as a target of never letting our batteries get below 75% - and only rarely below 90%. That is unrealistic. It takes too long to charge batteries above the 80 to 90% level because charging current must be tapered down. Much more realistic is to run your batteries between 50% and 80%. That requires a good 3 stage charging system capable of supplying 25% of your capacity during the bulk charge stage. |
Amps, etc.
Wayne.B wrote in
: On Thu, 26 Jul 2007 01:51:23 -0000, Skip Gundlach wrote: We've already got massive batteries. The issue is properly keeping them charged. At 750 nominal (less aging) AH, we can go for a long time with no charge input. But if we don't put in the charge, eventually the biggest battery bank will be flat, even if nothing is drawn from it, out of normal charge dissapation (flooded = ?%/ month)... To recharge 750 AH in a reasonable length of time you need a 3 stage charging source of 150 to 200 amps (25% of capacity). Don't let Larry tell you anything different. Wiring of appropriate size is also required of course. If you had a generator you could do that the way we do - use the charger half of a high powered inverter/charger. Since you don't, you will need a seriously high powered alternator with an external regulator. An alternator of 200 amp capacity will typically be a large frame Leece-Neville, require two drive belts, and quite possibly some custom work on your engine drive sheaves and alternator mount. All of this is not cheap of course, and it will take some shopping around just to find someone qualified to do the work. Nothing less is going to get the job done however. And don't forget cooling. A 200A alternator is going to generate a lot of heat and will need to be cooled. You just can't throw it into an enclosed engine space and expect it to crank out 200A without burning up. You need to have a 3 stage controller with a thermocouple on the alternator and you need to pipe air into the engine space. -- Geoff |
Amps, etc.
On Fri, 27 Jul 2007 05:21:01 -0500, Geoff Schultz
wrote: And don't forget cooling. A 200A alternator is going to generate a lot of heat and will need to be cooled. You just can't throw it into an enclosed engine space and expect it to crank out 200A without burning up. You need to have a 3 stage controller with a thermocouple on the alternator and you need to pipe air into the engine space. Good points. In the end you may find that a generator coupled to an inverter/charger has a lot to recommend it. |
Amps, etc.
On Thu, 26 Jul 2007 12:55:16 -0500, "KLC Lewis"
wrote: I don't find anything on the Smartguage site that says how their meter can do it without a shunt, and with only two wires connected directly to the battery bank. It can't of course, it can only guesstimate. If you want to measure something you need the proper tools. The tool in this case is a shunt. On the other hand you can argue that all that is really needed is a digital voltmeter to approximate state of charge. If your batteries are reading 12.6 volts under a light to moderate load, they are at 100%. Dropping down to 11.6 volts under the same conditions, they are at 50% and need to be recharged immediately. |
Clueless in (not Seattle) Amps, etc.
On Jul 26, 11:49 pm, Wayne.B wrote:
On Thu, 26 Jul 2007 01:51:23 -0000, Skip Gundlach wrote: We've already got massive batteries. The issue is properly keeping them charged. At 750 nominal (less aging) AH, we can go for a long time with no charge input. But if we don't put in the charge, eventually the biggest battery bank will be flat, even if nothing is drawn from it, out of normal charge dissapation (flooded = ?%/ month)... To recharge 750 AH in a reasonable length of time you need a 3 stage charging source of 150 to 200 amps (25% of capacity). Don't let Larry tell you anything different. Wiring of appropriate size is also required of course. If you had a generator you could do that the way we do - use the charger half of a high powered inverter/charger. Since you don't, you will need a seriously high powered alternator with an external regulator. An alternator of 200 amp capacity will typically be a large frame Leece-Neville, require two drive belts, and quite possibly some custom work on your engine drive sheaves and alternator mount. All of this is not cheap of course, and it will take some shopping around just to find someone qualified to do the work. Nothing less is going to get the job done however. I'm obviously missing a great deal of intelligence here. I had thought we'd properly sized our bank and input sources to allow for our anticipated usages. Obviously I was mistaken; I need a large-frame alternator and the appropriate drive components, in order to only bring my bank to 90%. Instead, I'm inputting, over an entire day, unless they're already full, in which case the controllers either divert or disconnect the load, on average, somewhere between 150 and 300AH, an average (varies, of course) of 6-12A per hour. Obviously, that's inadequate to keep a battery topped up, especially a big one. Trickling it in, I'd expected to rarely stress my batteries, rather than subjecting it to high inputs for short times, and to, for the most part, keep them full. I see I'm mistaken and must put not less than 100A into the battery bank any time I'm charging, and must make time in my schedule to run the main engine at least often, if not regularly. My 370W of solar, and KISS wind generator, are taking waaaay too much room on the arch considering they're doing nothing to enhance my charging regime. I figure I can save at least 100 pounds off the load on the stern if I ditch them. Where I am, right now, in Charleston SC, at 9AM, I'm only making 10 solar Amps with a bank which reads 13.9. Yesterday, at 5:30, when I turned off the outside power and fired up the inverter and put everything I could find on the load, it only was making 20A. Controllers apparently size the output to the load (?). I wonder what it would do at noon with a load? I have no idea what it will do in real-world situations. I've only seen 25A at the dock, sometimes, and 30A from the wind, but today's dead calm, so there's nothing there. Perhaps I'll just have to learn to live on less than 200AH/day, and buy one of those massive alternators. Damn. I thought I was finished in the engine room for a while. Oh, well. My 360CFM air exchange ought to make it a little less stifling in there Oh, and, of course, never leave the dock, as to do so would be to surrender to a schedule. After all, if you get somewhere, sometime, you've fulfilled *some* schedule, even if it wasn't something targeted. But since I but since I can ill-afford the prices in any marina, let alone this one, we'll have to do it from the hook, which is ok, too. I just wish I'd get to see more places... I'm going to cast caution to the winds today and go out for a sail, to seatrial our repairs. However, we'll return to the security of the dock this afternoon. We might play tourist for a while here, but we'll have to do it from the hook, having exhausted the excuses to be at a dock, not requiring any outside mechanics' assistance. L8R Skip Morgan 461 #2 SV Flying Pig KI4MPC See our galleries at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery ! Follow us at http://groups.google.com/group/flyingpiglog and/or http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFlyingPigLog "You are never given a wish without also being given the power to make it come true. You may have to work for it however." (and) "There is no such thing as a problem without a gift for you in its hands. You seek problems because you need their gifts." (Richard Bach, in The Reluctant Messiah) |
Clueless in (not Seattle) Amps, etc.
Skip Gundlach wrote in
ps.com: On Jul 26, 11:49 pm, Wayne.B wrote: On Thu, 26 Jul 2007 01:51:23 -0000, Skip Gundlach wrote: We've already got massive batteries. The issue is properly keeping them charged. At 750 nominal (less aging) AH, we can go for a long time with no charge input. But if we don't put in the charge, eventually the biggest battery bank will be flat, even if nothing is drawn from it, out of normal charge dissapation (flooded = ?%/ month)... To recharge 750 AH in a reasonable length of time you need a 3 stage charging source of 150 to 200 amps (25% of capacity). Don't let Larry tell you anything different. Wiring of appropriate size is also required of course. If you had a generator you could do that the way we do - use the charger half of a high powered inverter/charger. Since you don't, you will need a seriously high powered alternator with an external regulator. An alternator of 200 amp capacity will typically be a large frame Leece-Neville, require two drive belts, and quite possibly some custom work on your engine drive sheaves and alternator mount. All of this is not cheap of course, and it will take some shopping around just to find someone qualified to do the work. Nothing less is going to get the job done however. I'm obviously missing a great deal of intelligence here. I had thought we'd properly sized our bank and input sources to allow for our anticipated usages. Obviously I was mistaken; I need a large-frame alternator and the appropriate drive components, in order to only bring my bank to 90%. Instead, I'm inputting, over an entire day, unless they're already full, in which case the controllers either divert or disconnect the load, on average, somewhere between 150 and 300AH, an average (varies, of course) of 6-12A per hour. Obviously, that's inadequate to keep a battery topped up, especially a big one. Trickling it in, I'd expected to rarely stress my batteries, rather than subjecting it to high inputs for short times, and to, for the most part, keep them full. I see I'm mistaken and must put not less than 100A into the battery bank any time I'm charging, and must make time in my schedule to run the main engine at least often, if not regularly. My 370W of solar, and KISS wind generator, are taking waaaay too much room on the arch considering they're doing nothing to enhance my charging regime. I figure I can save at least 100 pounds off the load on the stern if I ditch them. Where I am, right now, in Charleston SC, at 9AM, I'm only making 10 solar Amps with a bank which reads 13.9. Yesterday, at 5:30, when I turned off the outside power and fired up the inverter and put everything I could find on the load, it only was making 20A. Controllers apparently size the output to the load (?). I wonder what it would do at noon with a load? I have no idea what it will do in real-world situations. I've only seen 25A at the dock, sometimes, and 30A from the wind, but today's dead calm, so there's nothing there. Perhaps I'll just have to learn to live on less than 200AH/day, and buy one of those massive alternators. You had better learn to live on 200 AH or less if you're going to stay on a hook! You can have the biggest battery bank around, but if you can't keep them charged, they won't do you any good. I'd rather have a much smaller bank that I keep charged rather than a huge bank that's undercharged. Solar panels are great if you're somewhere that has lots of sun. I personally de-rate the panels to 1/2 of their listed wattage to come up with the *maximum* that I'll see out of them. This is 11 AM - 1 PM sun and then it falls off before/after that. As the batteries climb in voltage, you'll see less and less wattage. Wind is great if you're somewhere that's windy. Summer on the dock in Charleston doesn't fit that bill. The Bahamas or Caribbean quite often does. I personally would rather spend $ on wind generators rather than solar as I feel that you get a better bang for the buck. The wind can blow for 24 hours, but at best you get 6 hours of good solar generation without sun-following panels. On BlueJacket we use about 150-200 AH a day. Refrigeration takes up the bulk of that at about 85 AH. Replacing all of our incandescent lights with LED based lights really helped save power. The rest of the power goes into stuff like making water (about 40 AH), running the computer to get weather faxes, stereo, watching DVDs on the TV, etc. Whatever power I don't generate via my solar panels or wind generator, I make up via the generator powered ProSine inverter/charger. (Note that I wouldn't recommend ProSine as I've had to replace the unit too many times.) I don't want to run the engine to charge the batteries as I don't like to run the engine under light loads and I like to reserve engine hours to moving the boat. So you're right where most cruisers are when they find out that they're power hungry and their generation doesn't match their consumption. The easiest thing to do is to cut back on the usage, but that only goes so far. Good luck balancing things. It takes a while to figure it all out. -- Geoff www.GeoffSchultz.org |
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